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devisarada
07 September 2007, 03:47 PM
Would anyone be interested in a Forum to promote good relations amongst people of all faiths?



http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc146/Devisarada/GoldenRule.jpg

atanu
08 September 2007, 12:04 PM
Namaste,

This is excellent. All these apparently diverse philosophies are pointing to the same truth: Love of the Self, the self that is in me and in everyone.

And this Self is Good.

Isha Upanishad


6. He who perceives all beings in the Self alone, and the Self in all beings, does not entertain any hatred on account of that perception.
7. When a man realises that all beings are but the Self, what delusion is there, what grief, to that perceiver of oneness?
8. That (Self) is all-pervading, radiant, bodiless, soreless, without sinews, pure, untainted by sin, the all-seer, the lord of the mind, transcendent and self-existent. That (Self) did allot in proper order to the eternal Prajapatis known as samvalsara (year) their duties.


Om Namay Shivaya

Eastern Mind
15 September 2007, 06:39 AM
There is much going on in this area already. Every city, at least here in the west (I am not familiar with it in the east) has some sort of interfaith dialogue group. This is a good thing. What troubles me is the observation that fundamentalists won't join. Of course that is their right, I guess. The open minded members of each religion striving to educate, discuss, and find points in common for the benefit of all of humanity come and there is harmony amongst the group. This has led me to believe that there is more commonality amongst the peaceful people, even though beliefs differ, than there is between a fundamentalist, and another member of his or her so called faith. I recall the pope visiting my city, and hearing about fundamentalist churches protesting with slogans such as "The Pope is the antichrist" . Likewise there is a great deal in common amongst fundamentalists of all sects, namely the core belief "My way is THE way." So our common 'enemy' is fundamentalism itself, be it of the Islam, Christian, Hindu, etc variety. I have found that there is very little one can do about it, as that is their core belief, and its a strong one. On a personal level, I have found that I have turned a few individuals, not by arguing, but by avoiding religious discussion altogether over a longer period of time, and getting to know each other as people. Many didn't even find out I was a Hindu for several years. So eventually, those ones arrive at the conclusion that :Hey, this EM fellow isn't a bad chap, so Hinduism may not be the devilish religion I thought it was after all." This is the molecular theory of social change... one mind at a time. After all, its humanity we should care about, for the survival of the planet, and its continued role in the universe as a place where souls can evolve. Aum Namashivaya

saidevo
15 September 2007, 09:41 PM
There is a Yahoo Group called United Fellowship Of Interfaith Ministers whose stated aim is:

"This is an open fellowship for INTERFAITH laity, ministers and ministries. No matter what your spiritual or social path may be, all are welcome here. Our purpose is to provide a place of networking that each of us that are on different paths can come together on a common ground.This fellowship has various religious traditions: such as Christians, Buddhist, Hindus, Pagans, Wiccans, Mystics, Rosicrucians, Shamans and many other traditions. We do learn from each other, and we are open to all spiritual and social paths.

This organization was originally formed by Rev. John Wilton Stansell, Jr., aka Gospel J, of the Gospel Lighthouse Prison Evangelism."

(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unitedinterfaithministers/?yguid=227523244)

Before I signed up with HDF, I was a member of over 20 Yahoo groups that included the above group. Here a major topic of discussion is the wayward activities Christian priests, but they read Hindu articles with an open mind. I used to post a copy of my articles to each of these forums for sometime but grew tired of it and stopped the activity. These days after coming over to HDF I rarely partake or even visit these groups for the main reason that the Yahoo group posting facilities are not suitable for my voluble expressions!

devisarada
15 September 2007, 09:54 PM
I agree with you, E. M. It is difficult if not impossible to sway fundamentalists of whatever flavour. I posted this poster on a Muslim website, and surprisingly, got some pretty positive results. Many were surprised that other faiths also had their own expression of the Golden Rule.

It's one of my small ways to help promote acceptance amongst all people. One of the other ways I do it, is to occassionally wear a sari while going about my day to day business. I have never had any nasty comments or dirty looks, only compliments. But I do think that seeing a blond blue-eyed woman in a sari makes many people stop and think, and hopefully reflect a little.

atanu
17 September 2007, 03:42 AM
--- Likewise there is a great deal in common amongst fundamentalists of all sects, namely the core belief "My way is THE way." So our common 'enemy' is fundamentalism itself, ---- Aum Namashivaya


Namaste EM,

The commonality between fundamentalists of different groups is hatred for the other. So, you will note that staunch fundamentalists of different groups have most differences, which they tend to resolve through violence.

Hard deeds, in the cause of God (which sometimes may include violence against non-believers who obstruct worship), are however, recommended by even by Shaiva Sidhanta.The problem may arise when one preaches that "Only my belief is correct".

Common enemy, thus, for everyone is ignorance, since no religion in its core teaches hatred becuse of differences (as posted in 'The Golden Rule' by devisarada). Implicit in 'The Golden Rule' is the love of all pervading Self. In this respect, I feel, that the teaching of Vedanta is most direct.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

devisarada
17 September 2007, 07:34 AM
Namaste EM,

The commonality between fundamentalists of different groups is hatred for the other. So, you will note that staunch fundamentalists of different groups have most differences, which they tend to resolve through violence.

Hard deeds, in the cause of God (which sometimes may include violence against non-believers who obstruct worship), are however, recommended by even by Shaiva Sidhanta.The problem may arise when one preaches that "Only my belief is correct".

Common enemy, thus, for everyone is ignorance, since no religion in its core teaches hatred becuse of differences (as posted in 'The Golden Rule' by devisarada). Implicit in 'The Golden Rule' is the love of all pervading Self. In this respect, I feel, that the teaching of Vedanta is most direct.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya


Namaste Atanu,

I like they way you get right down the heart of the matter.

Eastern Mind
17 September 2007, 04:46 PM
Namaste Atanu .. I agree, the common enemy in the mind is ignorance.. anava... fundamentalists are clouded by ignorance..making quotes about other religions etc, without having any idea what they're talking about, all need some education, on respect especially.. However, I would like to know from which scripture in Saiva Siddhanta you found the similarities you refered to before.. Aum Namashivay

atanu
18 September 2007, 01:13 AM
Namaste Atanu .. I agree, the common enemy in the mind is ignorance.. anava... fundamentalists are clouded by ignorance..making quotes about other religions etc, without having any idea what they're talking about, all need some education, on respect especially.. However, I would like to know from which scripture in Saiva Siddhanta you found the similarities you refered to before.. Aum Namashivay

Namaste EM,

Om Namah Shivaya

What I meant was that all deeds are His deeds when the root ignorance of this self being separate from the Self is removed. Before that wicked deeds are wicked deeds only. Gita also supports war for the upholdment of Dharma. The problem is that no one can agree on what constitutes Dharma.

In this respect, I repeat, the exhibit of devisarada is excellent in showing that love of the Self is the commonality in every scripture. Realisation of the ONE common Self is the highest aim of sanatana dharma followers.

From Tirukkalitruppadiyar

16. Soft deeds; Chariya and Kriya and wicked deeds are the two kinds of deeds of this wide world. When you are the follower of the path of Shiva Dharma, Bhava Karma that which gives birth and rebirth will leave you.

17. O Vēdiyan, you worship the Lord, by pursuing, all limbs (rituals) and gaining the strength to remove all evil; those good deeds come by easily for us; these are the Soft deeds according to us.

18. Vairava, capable of conferring boons, received as sacrifice a boy (son) killed by their (parents') own hands and cooked for the Lord. We know such merciless killing as wicked deed.

19. Do not look at it as either Patakam (grievous sin) or pazhi (blame). He cut off both feet of father cum vedic expert. Having seen this, God conferred on Chandisvara Nayanar the gift of beatitude.

20. He begged Shiva to consume the sacred offerings (such as cooked rice, greens, pickled mango) that fell accidentally in the furrow of the ploughed field. Regretting the mishap, he cut his own head off. How can we ever describe his glory in words?

21. All deeds are His deeds; the votaries would be free of burden. If "plowing and debt are one face," would that constitute degradation? Let me know.

Regards,

Om Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
18 September 2007, 08:24 PM
Atanu: Namaste,and thank you for clarifying. I do like the idea of interfaith, but I also think some people take it too far in the ideas of all religions being the same, especially in the universalists that make that claim. I think its got to be very confusing for them. How does one reconcile heaven/hell vs reincarnation, for example. Best to know what you believe, follow that path with your whole soul, yet be at peace with all the rest of the paths. What are your thoughts on finding the middle line on this? Aum Namashivaya.

devisarada
18 September 2007, 09:14 PM
Atanu: Namaste,and thank you for clarifying. I do like the idea of interfaith, but I also think some people take it too far in the ideas of all religions being the same, especially in the universalists that make that claim. I think its got to be very confusing for them. How does one reconcile heaven/hell vs reincarnation, for example. Best to know what you believe, follow that path with your whole soul, yet be at peace with all the rest of the paths. What are your thoughts on finding the middle line on this? Aum Namashivaya.

Praanam E.M.,

I agree with you. Although the question was not directed at me, I thought I would also express my thoughts.

All religions are not the same. I believe that if every one followed the basic values of compassion, respect for others, and forgiveness for all people, that are at the core of most religions, this world would be a much safer and more peaceful place.

I basically have a laissez faire attitude towards other's beliefs, as long as they do not seek to convert me or disrespect me in any way.

When I see a beggar on the street, I do not ask what his beliefs are before I help him. Nor do I tell him about my beliefs.

atanu
19 September 2007, 02:34 AM
Atanu: Namaste,and thank you for clarifying. I do like the idea of interfaith, but I also think some people take it too far in the ideas of all religions being the same, especially in the universalists that make that claim. I think its got to be very confusing for them. How does one reconcile heaven/hell vs reincarnation, for example. Best to know what you believe, follow that path with your whole soul, yet be at peace with all the rest of the paths. What are your thoughts on finding the middle line on this? Aum Namashivaya.

Namaste EM,

You are correct. The prescriptions are different, based on cultural and also level factors. And this itself makes certain way suitable for certain people. However, you must also note that in sanatana dharma iiself, though so much variation exists yet, all variations are linked by OM. Similarly, God, being one, some common factor must exist among diverse religions.

I believe that in the exhibit posted by devisarada, the Self is indeed the common thread. And "Best to know what you believe, follow that path with your whole soul, yet be at peace with all the rest of the paths", as you have said is the best way, as per me.

Regards,

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
19 September 2007, 06:35 AM
Atanu: Namaste,and thank you for clarifying. I do like the idea of interfaith, but I also think some people take it too far in the ideas of all religions being the same, especially in the universalists that make that claim. I----- Aum Namashivaya.

Namaste EM,

You may like to go through the article. It reflects what you believe.

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2005/7-9/36-49_universal.shtml

Regards,

Om

devisarada
19 September 2007, 01:48 PM
Namaste EM,

You may like to go through the article. It reflects what you believe.

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/2005/7-9/36-49_universal.shtml

Regards,

Om

Namaste atanu,

Thank-you for sharing that article in hinduism today. It was an eye opener. As a Western convert to Hinduism many years ago, I have heard so often variations of that phrase, "One Truth, many paths". Concepts of who/what God is are indeed very different in each religion. But does that mean that there are many Gods, or that people see him/her differently?

Eastern Mind
19 September 2007, 05:31 PM
Atanu: I subscribe to HT and read all the articles with interest. Perhaps I was just summarising and regurgitating what I read, although I think I came to those same conclusions years ago. I do remember an interesting moment in my early life that I will share as food for thought. I was hitch-hiking (very common in the late 60s, early 70s) across southern British Columbia here in Canada, when I got picked up by a Jehovah's Witness whose intent I suspect,was to convert this young chap to his way of thinking. I had already concluded from personal experience that God was the essence of all things. I didn't bring up the topic of God, he did. I probably just wanted to sleep in the car, while he drove. However, after a few miles, he of course brought up the topic. The part I remember so well was when after he described God, I emphatically stated that "God is in this road we're on." At that point I honestly thought he was going to stop the car and kick me out for being blasphemous. To his credit, he allowed me to continue on to his destination. But that was one of the moments in time I realised that there are many different points of view, some of them quite narrow. I learned to be very careful with religious dialogue after that. It had been a rather cold and snowy evening, and never again did I want to risk the chance of being put out in the cold in the middle of nowhere. Aum Namashivaya

vcindiana
19 September 2007, 08:30 PM
Atanu: I subscribe to HT and read all the articles with interest. Perhaps I was just summarising and regurgitating what I read, although I think I came to those same conclusions years ago. I do remember an interesting moment in my early life that I will share as food for thought. I was hitch-hiking (very common in the late 60s, early 70s) across southern British Columbia here in Canada, when I got picked up by a Jehovah's Witness whose intent I suspect,was to convert this young chap to his way of thinking. I had already concluded from personal experience that God was the essence of all things. I didn't bring up the topic of God, he did. I probably just wanted to sleep in the car, while he drove. However, after a few miles, he of course brought up the topic. The part I remember so well was when after he described God, I emphatically stated that "God is in this road we're on." At that point I honestly thought he was going to stop the car and kick me out for being blasphemous. To his credit, he allowed me to continue on to his destination. But that was one of the moments in time I realised that there are many different points of view, some of them quite narrow. I learned to be very careful with religious dialogue after that. It had been a rather cold and snowy evening, and never again did I want to risk the chance of being put out in the cold in the middle of nowhere. Aum Namashivaya

Dear EM: I see this whole episode meaning something great. I bet this was indeed a great experience for you. You were given the ride on the cold and snowy evening. Didn’t you realize how God worked through this man regardless of his faith in getting you to the destination? God was also on the road as you said, making it safer on that wintry evening. All we can say a Heartfelt THANK YOU. Gratitude profoundly enriches our lives. ..VC

atanu
19 September 2007, 11:36 PM
Namaste atanu,

Thank-you for sharing that article in hinduism today. It was an eye opener. As a Western convert to Hinduism many years ago, I have heard so often variations of that phrase, "One Truth, many paths". Concepts of who/what God is are indeed very different in each religion. But does that mean that there are many Gods, or that people see him/her differently?

Namaskar Devisarada,

I was drawn for good or for worse by Ramana Maharshi. His teachings?

An emphatic and final 'No Second'. All experienced diversities are of that ONE only. The diversities do not exist, if thoughts are not there. Find out who has the thoughts?

He emphatically discouraged investigating another and encouraged investigating oneself (a teaching very much the opposite of the missionary tendency to meddle in other peoples affairs, acting as if benevolent).

Ramana Maharshi faced onslaught of many christian missionaries but He just kept silent. It was western followers of Ramana who shouted these missionaries out.

I agree to you fully that depending on the local cultural and personal mental maturity variations, all paths have been laid down by God. Atman -- the Self is common to every religion, with greater and lesser emphasis. There are experential differences and more differences in words, since it is the nature of mind and word to diversify (These two consorts of Shiva must be great trouble for Him. hehe.).

But EKO is EKO. EKO is not a local hero.


Regards,

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
19 September 2007, 11:42 PM
--- Didn’t you realize how God worked through this man regardless of his faith in getting you to the destination? God was also on the road as you said, making it safer on that wintry evening. All we can say a Heartfelt THANK YOU. Gratitude profoundly enriches our lives. ..VC

Namaste VC,

All sins can be undone but lack of gratitude cannot be. Tirumantiram.

Nice of you to remind.

atanu
20 September 2007, 08:05 AM
Namaskar Devisarada,

-----
Ramana Maharshi faced onslaught of many christian missionaries but He just kept silent. It was western followers of Ramana who shouted these missionaries out.

----Regards,

Om Namah Shivaya


The following is the mandate given to every christian. Inherently it is defective.



WITNESSING TO HINDUS

Pray and trust the Holy Spirit to use the gospel message to reach the hearts and minds of your Hindu friend.
Share your personal faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Keep your testimony short.
Stress the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as God's revelation of Himself.
Stress the necessity of following Jesus to the exclusion of all other deities.
Keep the gospel presentation Christ-centered.
Share the assurance of salvation that God's grace gives you and about your hope in the resurrection. Make sure that you communicate that your assurance is derived from God's grace and not from your good works or your ability to be spiritual (1 John 5:13).
Give a copy of the New Testament. If a Hindu desires to study the Bible, begin the Gospel of John. Point out passages that explain salvation.

Question is, if these fools believe that the assurance is derived from God's grace (as Hindus truly believe), why are they so bothered? Are they above God's grace?

Of course reflection of this erroneous "we only know" attitude is found in hinduism also. "Stress the necessity of following Jesus to the exclusion of all other deities" has a very similar parallel interpretation from Gita. "I am the way -- " is understood in gross physical terms forgetting the Holy Spirit "I am". But Christian anger is against those true Hindus who say "'I am' alone is the knower".



Om Namah Shivaya

devisarada
20 September 2007, 09:20 AM
Namaste atanu,



The following is the mandate given to every christian. Inherently it is defective.


Ramana Maharshi faced onslaught of many christian missionaries but He just kept silent. It was western followers of Ramana who shouted these missionaries out.

Prosletising and religious arrogance are two of the main reasons why I left Christianity. It is ridiculously prideful to believe that only Christ can save you.


WITNESSING TO HINDUS
Pray and trust the Holy Spirit to use the gospel message to reach the hearts and minds of your Hindu friend.
Share your personal faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Keep your testimony short.
Stress the uniqueness of Jesus Christ as God's revelation of Himself.
Stress the necessity of following Jesus to the exclusion of all other deities.
Keep the gospel presentation Christ-centered.
Share the assurance of salvation that God's grace gives you and about your hope in the resurrection. Make sure that you communicate that your assurance is derived from God's grace and not from your good works or your ability to be spiritual (1 John 5:13).
Give a copy of the New Testament. If a Hindu desires to study the Bible, begin the Gospel of John. Point out passages that explain salvation.


For me proseletysing has always been abhorrent, even when I was a Christian.

Now, whenever I am confronted by Christians, I tend not to argue with them. I tell them that I am very happy for them that they have found peace.; but that I have found my own peace and am also very happy with that.

This frustrates them to no end, and they tell me that I shall be condemned to hell.

They get even more frustrated when I tell them that I used to be Christian, but I no longer believe. Then they tell me if I don't repent, I shall suffer eternal damnation for I have turned away from the true faith.

When I tell them that I am prepared to take that risk, that usually leaves them speechless and ends the conversation. "Halleluja and Amen"


Question is, if these fools believe that the assurance is derived from God's grace (as Hindus truly believe), why are they so bothered? Are they above God's grace?

In some sense, Christians are actually polytheists, since they seem to believe that there are other Gods besides the "One True God" Also, many believe that just by accepting Jesus as their Saviour, all sins are forgiven. Therefore, whatever they do, they are forgiven. The attitude of the Crusades, as in "Onward, Christian Soldiers, marching off to war, with the Cross of Jesus going on before" is very prevalent, especially amongst Evangelicals.


se reflection of this erroneous "we only know" attitude is found in hinduism also. "Stress the necessity of following Jesus to the exclusion of all other deities" has a very similar parallel interpretation from Gita. "I am the way -- " is understood in gross physical terms forgetting the Holy Spirit "I am". But Christian anger is against those true Hindus who say "'I am' alone is the knower".

Sri Prabhupada's interpretation that only the personality of Krishna is the true God, is something that I have great difficulty with. My interpretation is that Brahma Vishnu (Krishna) Mahesh are all manifestations of "I am" (Brahman) the One without a second.


Om Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
20 September 2007, 05:30 PM
"All sins can be undone, but lack of gratitude cannot" Tirumantiram
Thanks for the reminder guys. Referring to my above post, I cannot honestly remember how much gratitude I felt at the time. Now, after some levels of personal development and simply maturing, I would be more likely to feel gratitude, and to act on it. I did see my fellow human as God, although he didn't like that any more than the road being God.
Subramuniyaswami wrote a wonderful editorial on this in HT about 8 years back. (July '97 under archives..publisher's message) It impressed me so much I actually cut it out, and made some copies. It was entitled 'appreciation and gratitude, or vice versa, and explored that these two need to go beyond just feeling but into demonstration, action as well. Who out there doesn't appreciate a heart-felt "Thank You" some time during their day. The simple courtesies expressed by many using these forums is a fine example.
Aum Namashivaya

yudhamanyu
22 September 2007, 06:48 AM
Indeed , universality and acceptance of all religions is also an important teaching and facet of Hinduism as taught by Shirdi Sai Baba, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swami Vivekananda, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and the other hindu sages.


In this context, let me quote the teaching of Swami Vivekananda , a spiritual master and prophet of Hinduism...

" If there is ever to be a universal religion, it must be one which will have no location in place or time; which will be infinite like the God it will preach, and whose sun will shine upon the followers of Krishna and of Christ, on saints and sinners alike; which will not be Brahminic or Buddhistic, Christian or Mohammedan, but the sum total of all these, and still have infinite space for development ; which in its catholicity will embrace in its infinite arms, and find a place for, every human being, from the lowest grovelling savage not far removed from the brute, to the highest man towering by the virtues of his head and heart almost above humanity, making society stand in awe of him and doubt his human nature. It will be a religion which will have no place for persecution or intolerance in its polity, which will recognise divinity in every man and woman, and whose whole scope, whose whole force, will be centred in aiding humanity to realise its own true , divine nature."

:)