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Madhavan
19 September 2007, 10:00 AM
This happened yesterday....

I was walking on the street with three friends, when suddenly the police started chasing all of us. Each of us escaped in a different direction. In the evening, all of us met. When I asked my friends about how they escaped, they were surprised, and told me all this 'police chase' never happened and I realized it was a dream.

The funny thing is the above episode, including the dream, happened in my yesterday's dream. That is, I was chased by the police while I was dreaming in my dream. How can one dream oneself to be in the dream state in the dream?

Is there an explanation to the above phenomenon? Anyone here expereinced something similar before? I would call this a nested dream. How many levels can it go?

sm78
19 September 2007, 10:14 AM
Weirdly this is what happened to be this morning...
I generally sleep late and rise a little late and hence often have to cope with morning dreams ~ i don't like dreams, btw.

Last night I got in touch up with a old friend after 4 years. We chatted and we said good bye. I asked him if he had a "Orkut Id" as I find it a good way to stay in touch.

This morning I had a small dream about him where I saw an unknown (to me) friend of this person was giving her account of him.

This morning after coming to office, I found an invitation from the person to his Orkut page. Only thing weird about it is, there was a "testimonial" written about him by one of his lady friend (unknown to me) which sounded almost exactly like the description I was witnessing in the dream.

sm78
19 September 2007, 10:20 AM
I now realize that my dream context if different ~ in my dream i discovered a reality before it happened ~ sort of!! and this has happened to me before, where I found some small circumstances repeating itself and realizing that I had dreams of similar circumstances before they actually happened. It makes a very weird feeling at the moment. But every time, including this mornings small episode, the subjects are very very mundane. If anything this only serves to indicate that often events unfold in subconscious mind before surfacing to consciousness and this "external" world is part of the consciousness.

About dreaming about dreams (which I gather is your dream) ~ I have had that too. But how is it different from a normal dream ?

satay
19 September 2007, 12:10 PM
I have had dreams where I was aware that I was dreaming also there were dreams where I was dreaming within a dream! Not sure who this entity was that was 'aware'. I suppose it was the 'self'?

I have repeated dreams of one thing for the past few years though it hasn't happened to me lately...in this dream I am always running either down the stairs or up stairs, usually the stairs are going in circles...sometimes they are the stairs of a 'minar' like structure sometimes in wide open space like going up a mountain and sometimes like going up the roof of a building.

The curious thing is that I am always running as if someone bad is chasing me...I am running for my life!

No, in these dreams I do not have my armor and sword with me...:D

meez
19 September 2007, 12:18 PM
On the subject of dreams, there is a book that I just finished reading, titled "Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep" by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. I enjoyed the book, so I thought I would recommend it here. Hopefully you will enjoy it if you get around to reading it. Be well friends!

yajvan
19 September 2007, 12:22 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


This happened yesterday....

Is there an explanation to the above phenomenon? Anyone here experienced something similar before? I would call this a nested dream. How many levels can it go?

Namaste and hello M and sm78,
I found this to be a common experience and enjoyable ( for me). I am a little different then singhi as I look forward to dreaming and the freedom one feels , but more importantly , the unexpected situations one falls into.

That said, you asked how many levels (nested dreams) one may experience? A hint may be how many angles you can think about thinking i.e. nested thoughts. I think this will indicate how many times a thought can be reflected and/or a nested set of dreams.

Based upon some new scientific offers on dreaming , there is an opinion that dreams help the learning process, and increase the synaptic logic ( circuits) connections for learning to occur or for problem solving e.g. ' let me sleep on it' scenarios.

Some say people see the future in their dreams... I have little experience here, but sometimes I sense I have seen a certain situation while in waking state that I can refer back to a dream or two. Yet I Have never found this experience to change a condition or for me to make a better informed decision.

Some people claim they are lucid dreamers - not sure of the benefit but sounds like fun.

pranams,

saidevo
19 September 2007, 01:12 PM
Namaste sm and others.



Last night I got in touch up with a old friend after 4 years. We chatted and we said good bye. I asked him if he had a "Orkut Id" as I find it a good way to stay in touch.

This morning I had a small dream about him where I saw an unknown (to me) friend of this person was giving her account of him.

This morning after coming to office, I found an invitation from the person to his Orkut page. Only thing weird about it is, there was a "testimonial" written about him by one of his lady friend (unknown to me) which sounded almost exactly like the description I was witnessing in the dream.


Insofar as I have read in Theosophy, dreams are of at least two kinds:

The first type arises from dramatizations by mind of the vAsanAs in the Chitta that are also influenced by etheric and astral thoughts currents from the people around. This sort of dream is often chaotic, involving fast changing scenes, characters and situations seen from the dreamer's point of view. The remarkable thing about these dreams is that you don't just see them but also think within your dream as you do normally and react to the situation, and the reaction often suffers from the limitations in your character. Physical stimulus is usually transferred as an appropriate scene that suddenly replaces the earlier scene in the dream. For example, if you are thirsty while sleeping and your system needs water, this is indicated as your craving for water in the dream; or if the bladder is full and the body needs to empty it in sleep, this gets transformed into a scene in the loo that usually wakes you up or else you will be emptying your bladder in the bed!

The second type of dream involves Astral Travel, that is, your astral body wanders about in the astral world, but still connected to the physical body through a 'sliver chord'. This dream is usually very clear and remembered when you are awake, though the people met in the dream are often unfamiliar to you, and you may not even remember their faces after the dream is over. It is this type of dreams we are encouraged to cultivate having as it is belongs to our astral life when the consciousness is transferred away from the physical body. A lot has been written about the possible methods and tools that help you have such lucid dreams, of which music is one. A small two line mantra such as the one played repeatedly in some gadgets in the bed room when you are asleep induces positive vibrations and peaceful dreaming. Massive information is available on the Net on topics such as astral projection, OBE, NDE, etc., people (mainly Westerners) mastering astral projection and having controlled OBE's and the prescriptions, tools and aids they used in their conscious training to keep the continuity of their consciousness in waking and dreaming.

SM, in the case of this Orkut testimonial, was there a photograph of your unknown friend and any chance of your recognizing the person from the photograph? Did you inquire your friend about her and how she could have known you, though in a dream? It seems to me (I may be wrong) that the clear dream you had is a case of an astral meeting that gave you some prevision. You can train yourself to explore more about such dreams, I think.

I have heard of Madhavan's nested dreams but don't remember having experienced any. When I was a boy I used to take delight in travelling by rail and was fascinated by aeroplanes, so these two vehicles often come in my dreams in pleasant and weird situations. In a recent dream, I saw a helocopter spray gasoline on my house and the neighbouring houses and hover over them, ready to ignite the place anytime! I don't watch too many Hollywood movies, though I do watch good ones in the Sony Pix channel (I don't have a paid channel service with a set-top box, only the basic TV channels, since I don't watch much TV), so it is strange that my mind so realistically imagined the scenary and terror of attack! Rarely I do have clear dreams of astral travel, and the remarkable thing with them is that I don't walk on the ground but simply fly, not horizontally like a bird, but levitating over the road and moving like a skier, with no special equipment other than my will power which I could use to control my speed and direction.

I think Yogananda in his 'Autobiography' speaks about a disembodied soul living in the astral world meeting friends and relatives of previous births, thus coming across two sets of parents, brothers etc.! This is one reason that we should love and be friendly with everyone, for we never know that our housemaid could have been a mother in a previous birth, so it is all the more reason that we treat her with courtesy and compassion.

Dreams is indeed a fascinating and instructive subject!

Eastern Mind
19 September 2007, 05:41 PM
BTW, I won't normally discuss dreams, as I believe they are often used by the inner beings as a clearinghouse for the subconscious mind, and to discuss them puts it back into the subconscious, which then of course means that particular evolutionary process has to be repeated. There was one though that I don't think had anything to do with the above type. I was dreaming, and hearing a specific song, and then when I awoke and turned on the radio, it was the exact same song, even at the same place, line in it. I do have the metabolic condition of having too much electricity in my body to be able to wear a watch. (A fascinating topic, which can be researched here on the net.. Some people have the condition (according to testimonies I have read) so badly that they will shut down computers they are around. I am wondering if there is a connection to spirituality in this somewhere. Any ideas?
Aum Namashivaya

Madhavan
20 September 2007, 02:32 AM
Dreams are a fascinating topic. I have had prophetic dreams before like yajvan said. On some occasions, I have had a dream continued from the dream of the previous night and that is really strange. There is also repetition of dreams. Sometimes, what happened lin my real life also appeared in my dream, showing that dreams are not simply wayward.

The most common dream I have is being chased by a tiger or a snake, though I am not afraid of them in the waking state - perhaps an influence of vAsanAs. God related dreams are not too common.

Are dreams caused by mind ( due to vAsana) or is it caused by God? Are dreams wonderful like the world or just a useless illusion? Can we do sAdhana we even in dream? Can we get rid of karma in dream? How much is the dream influenced by the waking state? How much do happiness, anxiety, depression, food etc influence dreams? These are some questions that have puzzled me. And there are no uniform answers...

sm78
20 September 2007, 04:45 AM
SM, in the case of this Orkut testimonial, was there a photograph of your unknown friend and any chance of your recognizing the person from the photograph? Did you inquire your friend about her and how she could have known you, though in a dream? It seems to me (I may be wrong) that the clear dream you had is a case of an astral meeting that gave you some prevision. You can train yourself to explore more about such dreams, I think.

As I said this has happened to me quite a few times regarding mundane stuff. Like while writing a mail, I thought I had written this mail before...a little later realizing that not in real life.

Regarding this one, I felt I had seen the lady but nothing more concrete.

Astral travel is a particular language. In language of the mundakya upanisad, I wud say things unfold in the 2nd state (dream)) before the 1st. Most things we witness in the 2nd are haphazard because more than one dream wave interfere to produce a completely different wave ~ much like interference of waves in physics. This was explained by Sivaya Subramuniyaswami somewhere.

There are a few reasons why I don't pursue dreams:-

1. Some teachers like subramuniyaswami and shaktibad swami as well indicates that pursuing dreams (astral or 2nd state) is counter productive to spiritual development. We want to be in the 4th while awake.

2. I have a tendency to slip into nightmares more often than not and makes my sleep often quite disturbed. Hence I avoid any experimentation with dreams, I wud have rather avoided dreams if it was possible. Astrologically this may have to do with Rahu's influence on moon because they are in conjugation in the 6th house in my raasi chart.

Jigar
21 September 2007, 08:33 AM
Namaste,
I would just like too quote myself to the early 20's of age saying "I Dream to be The Best of The Best!" Dreams are a speciality, if you dont know. Psychological conditioning is something else.



Maste nam,
Jigar

atanu
21 September 2007, 01:52 PM
Namaste,
I would just like too quote myself to the early 20's of age saying "I Dream to be The Best of The Best!" Dreams are a speciality, if you dont know. Psychological conditioning is something else.

Maste nam,
Jigar

Namaste Jigar,

What you say is interesting. Are you indicating the waking state dreams -- that is conscious dreams?

Om

Jigar
21 September 2007, 02:22 PM
Namaste Jigar,

What you say is interesting. Are you indicating the waking state dreams -- that is conscious dreams?

Om

Namaste Atanu,

yes, no , maybe?


maste nam,
jigar

atanu
21 September 2007, 02:34 PM
Namaste Atanu,

yes, no , maybe?

maste nam,
jigar

Namaste Jigar,

Then please shoot out fully.

Om

Jigar
21 September 2007, 03:44 PM
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1894/lostnfndfn7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

maste nam,
Jigar D.

atanu
23 September 2007, 08:27 AM
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1894/lostnfndfn7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

maste nam,
Jigar D.


?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5125/awomanvn3.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=awomanvn3.jpg)


??

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/4201/fatve8.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fatve8.jpg)

???

What is Lost and what is found?

Znanna
23 September 2007, 08:59 AM
LOL @ atanu :)


What is a dream and what is real? Like others, I've had prophetic dreams (since childhood) and was always plagued with questioning where one (dream) ended and the other (reality) began. My workable determination is the notion that there's no difference, no black and white just infinite shades of reflections. I dream my reality, my reality dreams me back too.

My fancy 20ish revelation was -

"Past is future; future passed."

:P

There are so many states of "consciousness" or points of view, that "infinite" would mark my reckoning, as there always seem to me more layers unfolding. I'm enjoying trying as many out as possible!

Shamanistic travels sometimes are described as being in "dreamtime" which is as good a description as any as to the active relaxation associated with it.

I suspect that the in-between days, like today (the equinox) also are dream-like to many, which is why they are favored in pagan and indigineous rites.

The King is dead! Long live the King!

tha gaol agam ort


ZN

atanu
23 September 2007, 11:29 AM
LOL @ atanu :)
What is a dream and what is real? -----
"Past is future; future passed."
------
tha gaol agam ort

ZN

Hi Zn,

A good laugh is good karma, I suppose. What is
"tha gaol agam ort"?

About dreams, yes, "Past is future; future passed." -- in every sense. The dream I dreamt of is as below:

For Emily whenever I may find her

What I dream I had:
Pressed in organdy;
Clothed in crinoline of smoky burgundy;
Softer than the rain.
I wandered empty streets
Down past the shop displays.
I heard cathedral bells
Tripping down the alley ways,
As I walked on.

And when you ran to me
Your cheeks flushed with the night.
We walked on frosted fields of juniper and lamplight,
I held your hand.
And when I awoke and felt you warm and near,
I kissed your honey hair with my grateful tears.
----

Possibly the futile dream of Krishna for Radha. These are unstable dreams. I dream of missed trains and exams.

Om

Znanna
23 September 2007, 03:01 PM
tha gaol agam ort

Gaelic for "I Love You" = "I'm other You" :)

Namaste,
ZN