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Hiwaunis
27 September 2007, 12:04 PM
Om Shanti,
What is the immortal soul and it's properties?
A few days ago I posted this question on a Christian forum and the responses I received were interesting.
http://foru.ms/t6145885-what-is-the-immortal-soul.html

I am now posting this question on HDF to get a different perspective.

Here are a few of the responses that I received:

This is more related to philosophy, so I'm going to move it there.

I think there is little taught about the soul, because we know little about it. It is not something that can be detected by scientific principles, which deal with the physical world.

I would disagree with the statement "I am an immortal soul and this body is just a host." That ventures dangerously close to Gnosticism. "I" consist of both soul and body - which will someday be raised immortal.

Here's what I think the Bible teaches. Our souls are immortal and right now it is in a sin cursed mortal host. You are also correct saying we should be focusing on immortal or spiritual things. Jesus says in Matt 10:28 to fear not them which kill the body, but fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. From I Peter 2:11, we should abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul. In Col 3:5 we are told to mortify our members and in Col 3:2 to set our affections on things above, these are spiritual priorities. Christ also said we should know how to posses our vessel (1 Thess 4:4).

The problem is before we are saved we live according to our lusts (Ps 58:3, Psalm 14:3, Gal 3:22) until by God’s grace He saves us (Eph 2:8, Psalm 62:1, 5) if it is his will to do so. When God saves one of His elect He puts a new soul in the same body (Rom 8:10) which causes an intense internal struggle. Paul describes this inner struggle and how he desired to be free from his body (Rom 7:24) so that he may be with the Lord (1 Cor 5:3). But Paul understood that his role was to spread the gospel message and live for the glory of God as all believers are suppose to do (2 Corinth 5:15). Eventually the saved spirit wins over the flesh and great joy is realized, but, we will not receive our glorified bodies until the resurrection on the last day (John 6:39,John 11:24).

The best way to look at our spiritual priorities is to look to Christ. He is our model. He is the Word that came alive and walked among us (John 1:1, 14). The word is the Bible. The whole message is that we are all in trouble with God, we are facing eternal punishment and Christ is the only one who can save us. So what was Christ’s priority? Was it not the salvation of souls that God gave him before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:3-5, John 17:9)? He came for His lost sheep and they respond to his call (John 10:5) which is the word of God. This is what Jesus did, He preached about God and His kingdom. He prayed often for His people and for the strength to carry out God’s will. The importance of Spiritual priority was also clearly demonstrated in John 2 when Jesus cleansed the temple of material things and emphasized that His house is to be a house of prayer (Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46).

God tells us in Genesis that our mortal bodies were made from dust (Gen 2:7) and will return to dust (Gen 3:19) after we loose the breath of life. But we were also made in the image of God (Gen 1:27). This means He gave us an immortal soul or spirit. This makes us accountable to God. A soul will either live forever with Christ (Matt 25:46, I Thess 2:12) like the thief on the cross (Luke 23:43) or will be justly punished forever (Ezekiel 18:20,Rev 14:11) like Lazarus (Luke 16).

So, you are absolutely correct. We must put our emphasis on the immortal things. Things of this world are very temporary but we live in this world and easily become distracted or worn down by the daily temptations we face. Or we fall victim to false gospels that ever so slightly put more emphasis on caring for the physical well being of others rather than on their spiritual condition.

God works through His Word to save those whom He plans to save (Romans 10:17). God tells us to first seek the kingdom of God (Matt 6:33) and do all to the glory of God (I Corinth 10:31). So, whatever we do in this life, we should ask the question am I doing this to glorify God or I am choosing comfort, happiness and glory for myself while putting God second or third. Will this cause me to break any of God’s commandments?
As we ponder this and struggle as the rich young ruler did in Mark 10, we can take comfort in knowing that it is through our sincere struggle of material Vs spiritual conflicts that God will lead us to true redemption.

So carry on and spread the Word.


We experience things in no place.

Feel right now your fingers touch your keyboard. You will see there is no specific place this feeling happens. Is it in your head, your brain? Is it in your nerves, your figertips? Is it in the keys themselves? Experience is not directly rooted in one place. Experience is an all encompassing phenomenon. There is no real limited "my" experience.

The best image I can think of is a needle in a bowl of water. The water is experience, and perhaps the needle is something you call yourself. Now imagine the needle is also made of water, and is in fact, not really separate from the rest of the water in the bowl. Keep this image and try touching someone else on their arm. The experience is no where.

It is in this way that I can feel what you could describe as an immortal spirit. Such things are hard to put into words. You can read the bible in this context and see truth in the bible's message there.

For example:
Quote:
Peter 2:11, we should abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.

Doing things for your personal benefit ultimately reflect negatively on the whole bowl of water that is experience and should be avoided.

Similar interpretations can be taken throughout the bible.

The soul is an interesting thing. Yet, its not all that easy to define and know.

The thought I like best is.
With our senses we know the world around us.
With our soul we know ourselves.
With our spirit we know the spirit world.

A pastor told me that about 30 years ago and I've not seen a better way to explain it yet.

So clearly we need to keep our spirit in contact with the Holy Spirit. In this faith works in a paralel way to our senses. We are to live by faith not by sight.

As to being so negative about this world and our physical body. We aren't to use our body as members to sin. But we are to use our body for good. Our bodies will be resurrected. So our physical bodies (an undefined differance from this body, but like Jesus' body) are eternal as well as our soul. The physical world we live in will also be here but created as a new heaven and earth. So the Earth is the Lords and the fullness there of. So Jesus died to redeam out bodies as well as our soul for our salvation isn't complete till the resurrection.

As Jesus taught its out of the heart that comes the issues of life. Its from the heart(soul) that we do good or do bad. Its from the heart that says wheather our motive is to love God and people or if we just love ourself.


Am I correct in thinking that religion can be put in a sequential order similar to first grade, second grade, third grade, high school, college, grad school, then Ph'd?

Namaste Hiwaunis

Hiwaunis
14 October 2007, 08:28 PM
I'd put Christianity somewhere in the 2nd to 9th grade category. Of course Christian Mysticism would be ranked much much higher.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis