yajvan
03 October 2007, 12:38 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste,
The following post is from another file folder. I thought it too important to let it go dormant there. It is the notion of the simple meditative components one may choose to invoke. Perhaps others will want to offer their views and perspectives on this?
Obviously this Amit (whoever) is not holding on to the I, but allowing it to sprout out into Dhi and Viveka etc (that is Amit is thinking full force).
Holding onto I successfully even for a second will reveal the nature of I. Enquiry is a higher step of meditation and the attention has to stay on the I awareness alone. The moment a thought comes up, the attention is gone.One has to gently bring it back.
It will be tedious, boring and nearly impossible, for those who have not mastered concentration. Om
Namaste atanu,
I think your assessment is pregnant with wisdom... Amit , our hypothetical sadhu, is assessing this state. He is trying to discern if he logically can deduce "I" by thinking though it.
You offering is 'The moment a thought comes up, the attention is gone. ' That is, for me, the purity of I as Consciousness/awareness is now applied awareness for the assessment of 'was that the I , i am suppose to know?'. And with this , one is pulled away from pure awareness , that steady state, simplicity of silence.
Let me see if I can take it one more step. You mention another term, that of concentration. Let me compare and contrast this notion.
The notion for me is ones mind gets concentrated, one-pointed, when practicing a technique to come in contact with this pure awareness. I have found that trying to concentrate causes effort and strain and pushes me, in fact, further away from settling down the mind. [ this has also been my instruction from several of my teachers over the years].
So the action of trying to concentrate does not bring ones minded to a concentrated state in an easy manner. Patanali may call this state without fluctuations, one pointed,withourt modifications. Another way of say, just simple awareness by itself. Some facy word for this can be Visika Jyotismati.
So , the reason I am picking up on this is two fold - of where we find agreement in what you say and in my understanding and practice:
You mention 'The moment a thought comes up, the attention is gone. one has to gently bring it back.'
Yes, this is the formula. That of bringing the mind back, gently and not whipping it into place. This has been done for centuries, one of forcing the mind to become concentrated a.k.a Samadhi, by concentrating... that is not the method that yields the highest good i.e. forcing and pushing the mind. It revolts and says I will have non of that!.
The second item is what does one gently bring the attention back to? That of pratiprasava. That is the reverse of the birth process, or opposed to prasava, the production of. OF what ? the continued production of klesa's that bubbling-up as thoughts, impulses and intent.
This notion of pratiprasava is the meditative principle of gravity, the principle of withdrawing, One practicing this will find one ends up in silence, at samadhi. This is not not news...as this is offered in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali Chapt 2.
So, the "I" in question, is found in that simple state of silence. And by trying to takes ones awareness and look it "IT" then one just pulled themselves away from pratiprasava; Why so? It is the stillness of awareness, the silence of Being, that one experiences. If one starts to inspect, the SAME awareness that one is looking to experience it is now on active duty looking to inspect itself!
This is such a key point. One cannot take the awareness-consciousness that one whats to experience in its pure state and apply it (activate it if you will) to perform discrimination on itself. That is the fluctuation of the mind that Patanjali calls out in his works.
Thanks for your post, let me know your thought and perhaps other ideas you may have.
pranams,
~~~~~
Namaste,
The following post is from another file folder. I thought it too important to let it go dormant there. It is the notion of the simple meditative components one may choose to invoke. Perhaps others will want to offer their views and perspectives on this?
Obviously this Amit (whoever) is not holding on to the I, but allowing it to sprout out into Dhi and Viveka etc (that is Amit is thinking full force).
Holding onto I successfully even for a second will reveal the nature of I. Enquiry is a higher step of meditation and the attention has to stay on the I awareness alone. The moment a thought comes up, the attention is gone.One has to gently bring it back.
It will be tedious, boring and nearly impossible, for those who have not mastered concentration. Om
Namaste atanu,
I think your assessment is pregnant with wisdom... Amit , our hypothetical sadhu, is assessing this state. He is trying to discern if he logically can deduce "I" by thinking though it.
You offering is 'The moment a thought comes up, the attention is gone. ' That is, for me, the purity of I as Consciousness/awareness is now applied awareness for the assessment of 'was that the I , i am suppose to know?'. And with this , one is pulled away from pure awareness , that steady state, simplicity of silence.
Let me see if I can take it one more step. You mention another term, that of concentration. Let me compare and contrast this notion.
The notion for me is ones mind gets concentrated, one-pointed, when practicing a technique to come in contact with this pure awareness. I have found that trying to concentrate causes effort and strain and pushes me, in fact, further away from settling down the mind. [ this has also been my instruction from several of my teachers over the years].
So the action of trying to concentrate does not bring ones minded to a concentrated state in an easy manner. Patanali may call this state without fluctuations, one pointed,withourt modifications. Another way of say, just simple awareness by itself. Some facy word for this can be Visika Jyotismati.
So , the reason I am picking up on this is two fold - of where we find agreement in what you say and in my understanding and practice:
You mention 'The moment a thought comes up, the attention is gone. one has to gently bring it back.'
Yes, this is the formula. That of bringing the mind back, gently and not whipping it into place. This has been done for centuries, one of forcing the mind to become concentrated a.k.a Samadhi, by concentrating... that is not the method that yields the highest good i.e. forcing and pushing the mind. It revolts and says I will have non of that!.
The second item is what does one gently bring the attention back to? That of pratiprasava. That is the reverse of the birth process, or opposed to prasava, the production of. OF what ? the continued production of klesa's that bubbling-up as thoughts, impulses and intent.
This notion of pratiprasava is the meditative principle of gravity, the principle of withdrawing, One practicing this will find one ends up in silence, at samadhi. This is not not news...as this is offered in the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali Chapt 2.
So, the "I" in question, is found in that simple state of silence. And by trying to takes ones awareness and look it "IT" then one just pulled themselves away from pratiprasava; Why so? It is the stillness of awareness, the silence of Being, that one experiences. If one starts to inspect, the SAME awareness that one is looking to experience it is now on active duty looking to inspect itself!
This is such a key point. One cannot take the awareness-consciousness that one whats to experience in its pure state and apply it (activate it if you will) to perform discrimination on itself. That is the fluctuation of the mind that Patanjali calls out in his works.
Thanks for your post, let me know your thought and perhaps other ideas you may have.
pranams,