PORN IN RELIGIOUS

[shian]

Namaste,
in some Hindu Temple have a porn sclupture etc... and some Hinduism is look kissing in the front of other is not good.
i want to know:
are porn in some Hindu Temple is same with the modern porn art (playboy etc) ??

thank you

[Agnideva]

Namaste Shian,

There is a group of Hindu and Jain temples in North India in a place called Khajuraho built between the 9th to 11th century CE. The outside of these temples are decorated with many erotic sculpture motifs. From what I understand, these are sculptures are supposed to depict the acts of beings called Yakshas or Gandharvas, and not humans.

Many argue that the very fact that such sculptures were made in the first place shows that Indian society was once much more liberal than it is today. There may be truth to that as books like Kamasutra were also written in India. Some say that the conservative attitudes that are now prevalent in Indian society came largely from the Islamic era. How true this is, I am not certain.

OM Shanti,
A.

[Eastern Mind]

shian: I have heard a few theories on this topic. One is that Hindus are just more open about sexuality. Sexual imagery is on a lot of temples in the south, and often statues of ladies offering flowers or deepa are, shall we say well-endowed. And as far as I know, its all adult sexuality depicted which would be considered all part of normal non-renunciate life. One theory I've heard is that on gopurams especially, the images are there to collect sexual thoughts of the devotee before they enter the temple, where they should be free from sexual thoughts. Another is that it stimulates the energy at the base of the muladhara chakra, which is the same kundalini energy that carries you within. So it's like a quick jolt of electricity, shocking the spine straight to put you into a more temple consciousness, Now that would only work if you believed in that theory. We mustn't forget the prudish Victorian era that spread across the world with the British empire. They reacted to the nudity in Africa, Tahiti, Canada, and probably everywhere else they went. So if you are western educated at all, you may still have a reaction based on this programming. Westerners react to pictures of naked sadhus and the like still. Its their problem, or more politely, their ethnocentricity. Most certainly, in my opinion, it has nothing at all to do with western porn. Aum Namasivaya

[Kaos]

I think this is a byproduct of Christian/Western notions of racial, cultural superiority, double standard, hypocrisy and plain ignorance.

[Sahasranama]

I have heard the theory that these sculptures were made in the era that Buddhism and forms of crypto-Buddhism were spread in India and people were starting to neglect their social duties in order to live as ascetics. What I have heard is that the purpose of the depictions was to motivate people to live a life of a religious householders, instead of becomming Buddhist monks.

[sm78]

I have heard the theory that these sculptures were made in the era that Buddhism and forms of crypto-Buddhism were spread in India and people were starting to neglect their social duties in order to live as ascetics. What I have heard is that the purpose of the depictions was to motivate people to live a life of a religious householders, instead of becomming Buddhist monks.

That would be quite an ingenious way of motivating people to stay as householders...tempting with sex. But I don't think that marketing gimics could be well understood in those days in absence of a mass media to spread the messages.

Sexuality in India was never a taboo until quite late when psuedo morals began to dominate life.

I don't know the history behind Khajurao - never managed to study it..but 9-11th centuries was the golden period development of the 1st waves, 2nd waves of kaula scriptures who regarded sex as sacred...these temples might just be reflecting the thoughts of its time in a popular manner.

[Maya3]

I think it is western bias too (not all western countries are prudish, but in religions it's certainly suppressed)

The energy that is being created during sex especially if two people really love each other is extremely powerful. Really it's Gods energy being channeled. This energy creates babies if you want to.
It is really THE force of the universe, it moves us forward. (or a spark of The Force)
Not only male and female but all over nature there is a union between two and then a third is created.


God bless Hindu temples for acknowledging this. I think it's beautiful.

Maya

[PARAM]

In Ancient times due to the influence of Jainism, nude idols were placed in temples, in hindu temples those idols were covered with real clothes, but in the later times after the glory of a temple ended, covering the idols were also stopped.

Khajuraho temples were made by Chandel Dynasty who was in the faith of Vajryan Buddhism that belived in it.

Some of the rulers supported it, but not everywhere, you can check many ancient temples idols have full cloths.

[saidevo]

namaste.

My thoughts on the subject:

Sexuality--called shringAra rasam, has been an important part of Hindu life and dharma since the Vedic ages. Many if not most of our sages of the Vedic and PurANic times were householders. Our PurANas are replete with episodes of sexuality, where even Gods, including the TrimUrti, are portrayed as involved in it at one time or another, but always with a sattvic purpose. Goddess Shakti herself bears the name KAmAkShi--one who rules over kAma--passion/desire.

In the Shankara-charitam we see Goddess SarasvatI herself, now in the form of SarasavANI, wife of ManDana-mishra, who was the form of BrahmA, asking Shankara a question about dAmpatya--husband-wife intimate life, and saying that only if he could answer the question could he would be considered as victorious over husband and herself in the debate. Shankara does an act of transmigration, with his soul entering the dead body of a king, knows about it from the queen and then reports to SarasavANI. The author of the famous 'kAmasUtra' is a RShi named VAtsyAyana.

As EM has rightly observed, the gopurams--towers, of many ancient Hindu temples have sculptured figures of men and women engaged in coitus. Even today, old Hindu women in villages don't wear a blouse. In the ancient days, women covered themselves with a single vastram--cloth, with a cloth-band to cover their chest. The skirt and the gown came with the Victorian rule, while the shervAni-kurta and salvAr-kameez came with the Muslim rule.

This does not mean that the ancient Hindu society was perverted and that men and women had a free run in life without a marriage, as it happens today in the West. Hindu scriptures recognized eight forms of marriage, and dAmpatyam was more practised for creating good progeny than for the pleasure of it. The oldest profession, namely prostitution was there in the Hindu society too, and served as a channel for men obsessed with sex.

Hindus had nothing to be ashamed of speaking or reading about sexuality, which did not become a taboo until the Islamic and British rule. In Hinduism, marriage and sexuality had the main purpose of creating progeny as a service to the jIvas waiting in the other worlds to take birth, and never a sin.

Shiva and Shakti, as ardhanArIshvara, are inseparable.

[Maya3]

Saidevo,
What are the 8 forms of marriage?

Maya

[saidevo]

namaste Maya.

Who can better explain to us than the sage KAnchi ParamAchArya?
Check this link:
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part18/chap5.htm

[PARAM]

ॐ

Edited

[sm78]

namaste Maya.

Who can better explain to us than the sage KAnchi ParamAchArya?
Check this link:
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part18/chap5.htm

What is funny is if at all there is a monetary or commercial aspect in marriage it is always the groom/groom's family giving something in return for the bride....and look at the practice that has been going around in the society for so long now.

[saidevo]

namaste Param and others.



Kamsutra is just a novel written in Kaliyug by Vatsyayan, it is based on physical attraction and healthy relations, but it is not a Dharm Granth that we consider sacred


This is incorrect information. KAmasUtra is not a novel! I have not read the work but one can easily find the right information about it:

It is a work with emphasis on kAma, the third of the four puruShArthas--dharma, artha, kAma, moKSha. It talks about the puruSharthas in chapter 2. In chapter 3, it describes 64 arts that men and women studied in the field of worldly knowledge, and gives a list of those 64 arts, which includes: writing and drawing, interior decoration, fashion arts, culinary arts, entertainment arts, Chemistry and mineralogy, carpentary and--hold your breath--"The art of understanding writing in cypher, and the writing of words in a peculiar way." (http://www.simonsingh.net/The_Black_Chamber/kamasutra.html)

Here is a translation of the work by Richard Burton:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27827/27827-h/27827-h.htm

The current Western obsession seens only what it wants to see in the text and makes a business propaganda about it.

[PARAM]

namaste Param and others.



This is incorrect information. KAmasUtra is not a novel! I have not read the work but one can easily find the right information about it:

It is a work with emphasis on kAma, the third of the four puruShArthas--dharma, artha, kAma, moKSha. It talks about the puruSharthas in chapter 2. In chapter 3, it describes 64 arts that men and women studied in the field of worldly knowledge, and gives a list of those 64 arts, which includes: writing and drawing, interior decoration, fashion arts, culinary arts, entertainment arts, Chemistry and mineralogy, carpentary and--hold your breath--"The art of understanding writing in cypher, and the writing of words in a peculiar way." (http://www.simonsingh.net/The_Black_Chamber/kamasutra.html)

Here is a translation of the work by Richard Burton:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27827/27827-h/27827-h.htm

The current Western obsession seens only what it wants to see in the text and makes a business propaganda about it.


Saideo, thanks for this

in Simon singh site, it says Kamsutra is based on a Manuscript dating back to 1000 years of Vatsyayan, thats great information, I too haven't read Kamsutra. This may be one of our lost sacred text's belonging.

It is more wise and education based.

[TatTvamAsi]

First, I wouldn't call the sculptures on the gOpuraMs "pornographic" or "porn". That is highly derogatory and insulting to Hindus.

As Saidevo as already said, Hindu society is comfortable with sexuality but uncontrolled, undisciplined lust, as is the case with porn, is highly discouraged. In fact, vivAhA (marriage), is for the purpose of allowing other jIvAs to enter this bhU-lOkA, again, as Saidevo has already stated.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


First, I wouldn't call the sculptures on the gOpuraMs "pornographic" or "porn". ...
I agree... one misses the message if they view it this way. Yet Western society grooms this POV.

'Union' is śiva & śakti as one and the same.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OrPiYD1RcAs/TGtqtO7UjNI/AAAAAAAAGMQ/7gwLnrKPyAc/s1600/shiva+and+shakti1.jpg

to miss this point, we have mistaken a diamond for a broken piece of glass.

praṇām

[PARAM]

--------------------------

It's right, griHasth Ashram is very important in Hinduism, it cannot be called porn,



hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
--------------------

ardhnAriSHvar is pavItr union

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam all

Khajurao, what can i say, it is one off the best place off pilgrimage i had pleasure off visiting, unfortunately it associated with sex symbol for completely wrong reason.
it is surrounded in serene area, quite and away from it all, perhaps the reason why it survived the Muslim destruction.
The huge temples and there are many can only give us the glimpse off the grandeur off our glorious past. Its a pity that today there is no actually worship going on in those temples.
Yes there are explicit carvings on the outside wall of the temples but unless one goes there and see for oneself what it depicts then only message one gets from second hand tourist is that it is all about sex.Far from it, the whole message is how one has to rise from gross materialistic life to Divine. the bottom of the outside temples wall depicts the human life, it frailty even having sex with animals, then there is courts punishing those miscreants. Above the humans Gandhrvas and then the devas and then to reach the top the goal of human life.
It all depends what color glass one is wearing, one sees what one want to see, otherwise there is a great message in there.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam:

The Victorian era sure did a number on those poor blokes. Over 100 years later, it still resonates all around the planet.

Aum Namasivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Pranam all

Khajurao, what can i say, it is one off the best place off pilgrimage i had pleasure off visiting, unfortunately it associated with sex symbol for completely wrong reason.
it is surrounded in serene area, quite and away from it all, perhaps the reason why it survived the Muslim destruction.
The huge temples and there are many can only give us the glimpse off the grandeur off our glorious past. Its a pity that today there is no actually worship going on in those temples.
Yes there are explicit carvings on the outside wall of the temples but unless one goes there and see for oneself what it depicts then only message one gets from second hand tourist is that it is all about sex.Far from it, the whole message is how one has to rise from gross materialistic life to Divine. the bottom of the outside temples wall depicts the human life, it frailty even having sex with animals, then there is courts punishing those miscreants. Above the humans Gandhrvas and then the devas and then to reach the top the goal of human life.
It all depends what color glass one is wearing, one sees what one want to see, otherwise there is a great message in there.

Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste GaneshPrasad,

Nice to see you posting again!

And, I completely agree with your point; any message is only as good as the person receiving it.

That is why some of these "people" think the Lingam is a "phallus". :rolleyes:

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam TTA


Namaste GaneshPrasad,

Nice to see you posting again!

And, I completely agree with your point; any message is only as good as the person receiving it.

That is why some of these "people" think the Lingam is a "phallus". :rolleyes:

Thanks

Yes and Hinduism is Hodge podge without reading the deep philosophy that we follow.

I recommend everyone to visit Khajurav if you ever get a chance. i was most impress, if nothing else it will give you an appreciation for cleanliness and how to maintain peace full surrounding and dispel the myth that these temples are anything but sex symbol.

Jai Shree Krishna

[sm78]

That is why some of these "people" think the Lingam is a "phallus". :rolleyes:

There is nothing wrong with that thought too. Linga means a mark, a distinguishing mark rather. For males, the phallus is their distinguishing mark. ;)

Yet the linga means many things at many levels, but primarly refers to the mark left by god in the manifest and thus is the point of dissolution of the manifested universe.

We manifested through this physical body and will depart through it - it is a linga. Each of the tattvas appreared out of the corresponding linga and dissolve in the same...so there are lingas within our body corresponding to each of them.

There is nothing in this world which is not a manifestation from an aspect of shiva, and to which it has to return - including the phallus. Yes some persons will only want to see God as a neuter, but there are exceptions also. ;)..that said, shaiva siddhanta which popularized the linga worship is one of the greatest religious developments in this land also want to see God in asexual aspect.