Yudhamanyu Discussion

[satay]

Namaste,
I thought to create a new thread here as too many points seem to be making things complicated.


For clarity, I thought to recap all the points that I am trying to make:
a) It is not necessary to keep repeating to hindus that jesus followed Vedic and Buddhist teachings. Any hindu that studies jesus finds out very quickly that his messages of ‘I and father are one’ etc. are from advaita.
b) Christians need to understand that jesus was actually relaying the Vedic and Buddhist teachings. So therefore, hindus instead of keep repeating among each other that jesus was advaitin should try their best to teach this message to the Christians by joining the Christian forums and showing how jesus was really a hindu/Buddhist mix.
c) Jesus is completely irrelevant to hindus as he offers no additional insights on how to get closer to God or how to attain moksha. Other sages have articulated the message better than him so therefore, hindus should concentrate on those sages instead of promoting the poster child of Christianity.
d) Self claimed enlightened master ravi is not enlightened for the following reason:
a. By charging for courses, he is just like any businessman trying to run his business. The point that he then uses some of that money to help the poor is irrelevant. Any good business would do that to gain more popularity and followers especially when the business is to attract people with fatter wallets.e) I reject ravi for not having the courtesy to prepare for a debate with a fundamental muslim and for accepting that he was lazy enough to not edit his book that he published about islam that is full of errors and then for shamelessly getting defeated.
For point b, I have offered two links to Christian forums where the message that jesus was following hindu/Buddhist teachings should be posted and feedback tracked to see how accepting Christians are of this message.

For point c, I have offered Sita Ram Goel’s article on Jesus showing the true jesus ‘an artifice of aggression’ and how Hindus should really reject the poster child of Christianity as junk.

For point e, I will post ravi’s debate with naik here, if there is interest.

Let's continue here if you wish.

To keep things fair, I could assign someone else as a mod i.e. you and I could report the posts to the temporary mod who will evaluate our posts for site rule adherence etc.
Let me know...

[satay]

I am waiting for the following:
- a pm from you detailing where you posted this message of 'jesus was following hindu/buddhists tradition' and the positive feedback you received.

- if you haven't done that in the past then post the message on the christians forums that I told you about and let's hear about how accepting christians are of this message.

- for you to connect me to a christian that thinks that ravi's book "Hinduism and Christianity is simply brilliant" as you put it.

[Eastern Mind]

Yudhamanyu and Satay: I have been reading these posts with interest. Some gurus say that the best way to judge a guru is by watching the disciples. I don't know if I buy this, as it would depend on which disciple you're watching. I have browsed the internet about Sri Sri and have found various points of view, mostly positive, yet some negative too. This is basically true of all swamis, gurus. There are always two sides. Personally, I will not judge unless I have the experience of sitting in their presence. Only then can I try to intuit the aura, and mystique, and make a personal 'judgment' based on my own observations, not the words of others. (The words of others, especially those who are followers are always biased based on their own experiences, and if that swami is the one they chose to follow, then they'd better think or she is the best one out there, (or else they should switch to the one they deem better) I have only met (sat in a lecture, or in passing at an airport) 3 or 4 swamis outside my own parampara, and I touch their feet if possible. I feel if they are not legitimate, and making claims about their own powers etc., then that is clearly their problem, not mine. I am far too ignorant in mystic knowledge to see it very deeply. When charging for classes, it is the devotee who is willing to pay. So it is their choice, same as any other consumer item. And sometimes you feel ripped off, and other times you feel you got your money's worth. As far as getting into arguments about whose guru is the best, I learned my lesson well about 15 years ago, when discussing Sai Baba with a Sai devotee. Well, he was a Sai devotee, and I'm not. Of course he should think the way he does about Sai Baba. We had a long discussion that eventually turned emotional on both sides, with each of us acting like babies and lowering ourselves to criticism of each other's gurus. It destroyed our friendship. If either of us would have done the manly thing, and not brought it up, or just remained civil, the friendship wouldn't have been destroyed. (Actually we are now on civil talking terms, but neither of us want to repeat the same performance, so we don't bring it up.) To each his own. Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

namaste EM,
Thank you for the post. I appreciate it much. I agree with all of your points, however, my view on 'charging' or 'accpeting money' is this:

As soon as one charges or accepts money for his services he/she becomes a businessman. Even if this money all of it or part of it is to be used to help the poor.

A true guru (and I have met two already having this quality), in my view, even when offered money will respond with, "I have no use of this, please help others who need it most as you wish". This is because for a guru money has no purpose...he lives simply to help others.

This may sound like a very high ideal, but I have met at least two people that practice it.

[yudhamanyu]

namaste EM,

A true guru (and I have met two already having this quality), in my view, even when offered money will respond with, "I have no use of this, please help others who need it most as you wish". This is because for a guru money has no purpose...he lives simply to help others..

Well, my dear Satay, I see that based on your deep ignorance , you keep on judging and putting standards on enlightened masters without any authority whatsoever.

A guru , as you state, would refuse money from others and tell them to help people as they wish.

I state that the true guru , would take money , and using his formidable intellect and intuitions, would use the resources in such a manner that he will be able to help the most people with it , as compared to the 'guru' who tells others who tell people to help others as they wish and thus avoid responsibility .

It is a teaching of Sri Sri Ravi Shankar , " Take up responsibility . The more responsibility you take , the more powerful you become. "



This may sound like a very high ideal, but I have met at least two people that practice it.

And have they helped MILLIONS of people like Sri Sri did or have done even one-tenth of what this great karma yogi have done.

[satay]

namaskar yudhamanyu,


Well, my dear Satay, I see that based on your deep ignorance , you keep on judging and putting standards on enlightened masters without any authority whatsoever.

A guru , as you state, would refuse money from others and tell them to help people as they wish.





And have they helped MILLIONS of people like Sri Sri did or have done even one-tenth of what this great karma yogi have done.

When you are ready to talk without emotional attachment and without personal attacks you may answer my first post and the points listed therein.

The rest of your post is simply promotion of your guru and according to the rules of the site, promoting personal business is against the rules so I have no choice but to delete the rest of your post.

Thanks,
ps: still waiting for your pm regarding items in post 2.

[satay]

Your posts about site rules have been moved to http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2169

Let's focus on post 1 when you can. Till you object to any of the points in post 1, I will assume that all my points are valid and accepted by you.

[satay]

Namaste Yudhamanyu,

Whenever you are ready, we can discuss post 1.

Also, still waiting for items in post 2 from you.

[satay]

Please address post 1 and post 2 when you get a chance. In the meantime, I will assume that you have no logical answer to these points and just avoiding them.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Yudhamanyu and Satay: I have been reading these posts with interest. Some gurus say that the best way to judge a guru is by watching the disciples.

Namaste,

"Rely on the teachings to evaluate a guru:
Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism."
His Holiness the Dalai Lama

[satay]

Admin Note

Singhi I have moved your posts to http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=17219 thread as I want this thread focused on discussion with yudhamanyu on post 1 and post2.