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yajvan
26 October 2007, 12:19 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

There is a beautiful technique offered in the Vijñāna bhairava tantra [ some write Vigyan Bhairav or Vijnanabhairava Tantra] where Siva is talking to Parviti. One technique offered is the 31st kārikā ( sutra ). It says:

Version 1
Attention between the eyebrows. Let mind be before thought. Let form fill breath essence to the top of the head and there shower as light.

Version 2
Having filled (the body up to) mūrdhānta¹ with the same energy of breath and having crossed it like a bridge by contracting the eye brows and making one's mind free from thoughts, one becomes all-pervading in the highest state

This location is called ajna [आज्ञा ājñā] cakra or Shivanetra, some call this the 3rd eye. Most all of us are aware of this location from viewing the 7 chakras, or many that wear a bindu or bindi at this location.

This ājñā cakra is said to be somewhat dormant, until one wakes it up and 'feeds' this cakra. And what is its food? One's Attention or Awareness is what it consumes. Siva is suggesting one way to experience pure consciousness is by this method of awaking ājñā cakra.

Now lets switch to the Mahabharata, Shanti Parva, to bring the value of this ājñā cakra, and perhaps unravel a story that is told during Sivaratri. I hope there is an ahhhh-ha! in this story for you and the spiritual significance.

THE STORY OF KING CHITRABHANU
Courtesy of http://www.vishnumandir.com/resources/festivals/shivaratri.php (http://www.vishnumandir.com/resources/festivals/shivaratri.php)
Bhishma, whilst resting on the bed of arrows and discoursing on Dharma, refers to the observance of Maha Shivaratri by King Chitrabhanu. The story goes as follows.
Once upon a time King Chitrabhanu of the Ikshvaku dynasty, who ruled over the whole of Jambudvipa, was observing a fast with his wife, it being the day of Maha Shivaratri. The sage Ashtavakra came on a visit to the court of the king.
The sage asked, "O king! why are you observing a fast today?"
King Chitrabhanu explained why. He had the gift of remembering the incidents of his previous birth.

The king said to the sage: "In my past birth I was a hunter in Varanasi. My name was Suswara. My livelihood was to kill and sell birds and animals. One day I was roaming the forests in search of animals. I was overtaken by the darkness of night. Unable to return home, I climbed a tree for shelter. It happened to be a bael tree. I had shot a deer that day but I had no time to take it home. I bundled it up and tied it to a branch on the tree. As I was tormented by hunger and thirst, I kept awake throughout the night. I shed profuse tears when I thought of my poor wife and children who were starving and anxiously awaiting my return. To pass away the time that night I engaged myself in plucking the bael leaves and dropping them down onto the ground.

"The day dawned. I returned home and sold the deer. I bought some food for myself and for my family. I was about to break my fast when a stranger came to me, begging for food. I served him first and then took my food.

"At the time of death, I saw two messengers of Lord Shiva. They were sent down to conduct my soul to the abode of Lord Shiva. I learnt then for the first time of the great merit I had earned by the unconscious worship of Lord Shiva during the night of Shivaratri. They told me that there was a Lingam at the bottom of the tree. The leaves I dropped fell on the Lingam. My tears which I had shed out of pure sorrow for my family fell onto the Lingam and washed it. And I had fasted all day and all night. Thus did I unconsciously worship the Lord.
"I lived in the abode of the Lord and enjoyed divine bliss for long ages. I am now reborn as Chitrabhanu."

SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THE RITUAL
The Scriptures record the following dialogue between Sastri and Atmanathan, giving the inner meaning of the above story.
Sastri: It is an allegory. The wild animals that the hunter fought with are lust, anger, greed, infatuation, jealousy and hatred. The jungle is the fourfold mind, consisting of the subconscious mind, the intellect, the ego and the conscious mind. It is in the mind that these "wild animals" roam about freely. They must be killed. Our hunter was pursuing them because he was a Yogi. If you want to be a real Yogi you have to conquer these evil tendencies. Do you remember the name of the hunter in the story?

Atmanathan: Yes, he was called Suswara.

Sastri: That's right. It means "melodious". The hunter had a pleasant melodious voice. If a person practices Yama and Niyama and is ever conquering his evil tendencies, he will develop certain external marks of a Yogi. The first marks are lightness of the body, health, steadiness, clearness of countenance and a pleasant voice. This stage has been spoken of in detail in the Swetaswatara Upanishad. The hunter or the Yogi had for many years practised Yoga and had reached the first stage. So he is given the name Suswara. Do you remember where he was born?

Atmanathan: Yes, his birthplace is Varanasi.

Sastri: Now, the Yogis call the Ajna Chakra by the name Varanasi. This is the point midway between the eyebrows. It is regarded as the meeting place of the three nerve currents (Nadis), namely, the Ida, Pingala and the Sushumna. An aspirant is instructed to concentrate on that point. That helps him to conquer his desires and evil qualities like anger and so on. It is there that he gets a vision of the Divine Light within.

Atmanathan: Very interesting! But how do you explain his climbing up the bael tree and all the other details of the worship?

Sastri: Have you ever seen a bael leaf?

Atmanathan: It has three leaves on one stalk.

Sastri: True. The tree represents the spinal column. The leaves are threefold. They represent the Ida, Pingala and Sushumna Nadis, which are the regions for the activity of the moon, the sun and fire respectively, or which may be thought of as the three eyes of Shiva. The climbing of the tree is meant to represent the ascension of the Kundalini Shakti, the serpentine power, from the lowest nerve centre called the Muladhara to the ājñā cakra. That is the work of the Yogi.

Atmanathan: Yes, I have heard of the Kundalini and the various psychic centres in the body. Please go on further; I am very interested to know more.

Sastri: Good. The Yogi was in the waking state when he began his meditation. He bundled up the birds and the animals he had slain and, tying them on a branch of the tree, he rested there. That means he had fully conquered his thoughts and rendered them inactive. He had gone through the steps of Yama, Niyama, Pratyahara, etc. On the tree he was practising concentration and meditation. When he felt sleepy, it means that he was about to lose consciousness and go into deep sleep. So he determined to keep awake.

Atmanathan: That is now clear to me; you certainly do explain it very well. But why did he weep for his wife and children?

Sastri: His wife and children are none other than the world. One who seeks the Grace of God must become an embodiment of love. He must have an all-embracing sympathy. His shedding of tears is symbolical of his universal love. In Yoga also, one cannot have illumination without Divine Grace. Without practising universal love, one cannot win that Grace. One must perceive one's own Self everywhere. The preliminary stage is to identify one's own mind with the minds of all created beings. That is fellow-feeling or sympathy. Then one must rise above the limitations of the mind and merge it in the Self. That happens only in the stage of Samadhi, not earlier.

Atmanathan: Why did he pluck and drop the bael leaves?

Sastri: That is mentioned in the story only to show that he had no extraneous thoughts. He was not even conscious of what he was doing. All his activity was confined to the three Nadis. The leaves, I have said before, represent the three Nadis. He was in fact in the second state, namely, the dream state, before he passed into the deep sleep state.

Atmanathan: He kept vigil the whole night, it is said.

Sastri: Yes, that means that he passed through the deep sleep state successfully. The dawning of day symbolises the entrance into the Fourth state called Turiya or superconsciousness.

Atmanathan: It is said that he came down and saw the Lingam. What does that mean?

Sastri: That means that in the Turiya state he saw the Shiva Lingam or the mark of Shiva in the form of the inner lights. In other words, he had the vision of the Lord. That was an indication to him that he would realise the supreme, eternal abode of Lord Shiva in course of time.

Atmanathan: So it appears from what you say that the sight of the lights is not the final stage?

Sastri: Oh no! That is only one step, albeit a difficult one. Now think of how the story continues. He goes home and feeds a stranger. A stranger is one whom you have not seen before. The stranger is no other than the hunter himself, transformed into a new person. The food was the likes and dislikes which he had killed the previous night. But he did not consume the whole of it. A little still remained. That was why he had to be reborn as King Chitrabhanu. Going to the world of Shiva (Salokya) is not enough to prevent this. There are other stages besides Salokya. These are Samipya, Sarupya and finally Sayujya. Have you not heard of Jaya and Vijaya returning from Vaikunta?

Atmanathan: Yes, I have understood now.

pranams


1. mūrdhānta मूर्धान्त - the crown of the head

yajvan
26 October 2007, 12:43 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~



namasté


this is collecting some of the techniques offered in Vigyan BhairavaTantra that were discussed on HDF, to give them a common home.


Regarding Techniques and the (Stubborn) Mind
Another notion is the following - This is a conversation between Siva and Parviti and called Vijñāna bhairava tantra.


She asks Shiva, what is your reality? What is this wonder-filled universe? What constitutes seed? Who centers the universal wheel? What is this life beyond form pervading forms? How may we enter it fully, above space and time... Siva answers,

kārikā 24
Radiant One, this experience may dawn between two breaths.
After breath comes in (down) and just before turning up (out) - the beneficence.

kārikā 25
As breath turns from down to up, and again as breath curves up to down -through both these turns, realize.

kārikā 26
Or, whenever in-breath and out-breath fuse, at this instant touch the energy-less, energy-filled center

kārikā 27
Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and stopped -in such universal pause, one's small self vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure.

This sutra 24 is a beautiful technique that is so simple (hence its power and elegance). We also find a parallel technique in the Siva Sutras, Section 3 or the Third Awakening.

It's based on the simple premise of the gap or junction point, sandhi. We find this gap in the day, morning twilight to day, day to evening. We find this gap in the grahas from one one rasi to another. We find this gap in our selves - from wake to dream , from dream to Sleep. And we find it in our breath. as as pour one breath into another, there is a sight gap between the two. This gap this sandhi, or junction is where one can experience pure consciousness, stillness, turiya.

Is this the only way... nope. Lots more. Yet this technique is so simple, as we all breath and are intimate with the breath-prana. Now this breath can assist us. We breathe ~ 10,000 breaths a day ( in-and-out = 1 full breath). We by His Grace are given 10,000 chances to touch this Consciousness.

Why is this an attractive technique? the mind does not revolt! Without prana the mind is not there... So , mind respects prana.

Om Namah Sivaya

atanu
30 October 2007, 09:16 AM
Namaste Yajvan Ji,

I just wanted to mention that in Jnana Yoga the terms of meditative principle have different connotations.

Om

yajvan
30 October 2007, 12:15 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan Ji,

I just wanted to mention that in Jnana Yoga the terms of meditative principle have different connotations. Om

Namaste atanu,
Yes, I am sure it would have different nuances.
It would be a delight to view this knowledge from that POV.
I hope you have a few minutes to offer and perhaps compare and contrast?

thank you,

pranams,

atanu
31 October 2007, 02:16 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste atanu,
Yes, I am sure it would have different nuances.
It would be a delight to view this knowledge from that POV.
I hope you have a few minutes to offer and perhaps compare and contrast?
thank you,
pranams,

Namaste Yajvan Ji,

Vigyan BhairavaTantra itself enumerates several methods. Different schools adapt some of those.

From Jnana school, the following is the teaching of Ramana Maharshi:

------------------------------
D: Of the means for mind-control, which is the most important?

M: Breath-control is the means for mind-control.

D: How is breath to be controlled?

M: Breath can be controlled either by absolute retention of breath (kevala-kumbhaka) or by regulation of breath (pranayama).
------------------------------

D: What are the limbs of yoga?

M: Yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dharana, dhyana, and samadhi. Of these -

(1) Yama:- this stands, for the cultivation of such principles of good conduct as non-violence (ahimsa), truth (satya), non-stealing (asteya), celibacy (brahmacharya), and non-possession (apari-graha).

(2) Niyama:- this stands for the observance of such rules of good conduct as purity (saucha), contentment (santosha), austerity (tapas), study of the sacred texts (svadhyaya), and devotion to God (Isvara-pranidhana).4

(3) Asana:- Of the different postures, eighty-four are the main ones. Of these, again, four, viz., simha, bhadra, padma, and siddha5 are said to be excellent. Of these too, it is only siddha, that is the most excellent. Thus the yoga-texts declare.

(4) Pranayama:- According to the measures prescribed in the sacred texts, exhaling the vital air is rechaka, inhaling is puraka and retaining it in the heart is kumbhaka. As regards ‘measure’, some texts say that rechaka and puraka should be equal in measure, and kumbhaka twice that measure, while other texts say that if rechaka is one measure, puraka should be of two measures, and kumbhaka of four. By ‘measure’ what is meant is the time that would be taken for the utterance of Gayatri.

(5) Pratyahara:- This is regulating the mind by preventing it from flowing towards the external names and forms. The mind, which had been till then distracted, now becomes controlled. The aids in this respect are (1) meditation on the pranava, (2) fixing the attention betwixt the eyebrows, (3) looking at the tip of the nose, and (4) reflection on the nada. The mind that has thus become one-pointed will be fit to stay in one place. After this, dharana should be practised.

(6) Dharana:- This is fixing the mind in a locus which is fit for meditation. The loci that are eminently fit for meditation are the heart and Brahma-randhra (aperture in the crown of the head). One should think that in the middle of the eight-petalled lotus that is at this place there shines, like a flame, the Deity which is the Self, i.e. Brahman, and fix the mind therein. After this, one should meditate.

(7) Dhyana:- This is meditation, through the ‘I am He’ thought, that one is not different from the nature of the aforesaid flame. Even, thus, if one makes the enquiry ‘Who am I?’, then, as the Scripture declares, “The Brahman which is everywhere shines in the heart as the Self that is the witness of the intellect”, one would realize that is the Divine Self that shines in the heart as ‘I-I’. This mode of reflection is the best meditation.

(8) Samadhi:- As a result of the fruition of the aforesaid meditation, the mind gets resolved in the object of meditation without harbouring the ideas ‘I am such and such; I am doing this and this’. This subtle state in which even the thought ‘I-I’ disappears is samadhi. If one practises this every day, seeing to it that sleep does not supervene, God will soon confer on one the supreme state of quiescence of mind.

--------------------------

D: What are the eight limbs of knowledge (jnana-ashtanga)?

M: The eight limbs are those which have been already mentioned, viz., yama, niyama, etc. but differently defined. Of these -

(1) Yama:-This is controlling the aggregate of sense-organs, realizing the defects that are present in the world consisting of the body, etc.

(2) Niyama:- This is maintaining a stream of mental modes that relate to the Self and rejecting the contrary modes. In other words, it means love that arises uninterruptedly for the supreme Self.

(3) Asana:- That with the help of which constant meditation on Brahman is made possible with ease is asana.

(4) Pranayama:- Rechaka (exhalation) is removing the two unreal aspects of name and form from the objects constituting the world, the body etc., puraka (inhalation) is grasping the three real aspects, existence, consciousness and bliss, which are constant in those objects, and kumbhaka is retaining those aspects thus grasped.

(5) Pratyahara:- This is preventing name and form which have been removed from re-entering the mind.

(6) Dharana:- This is making the mind stay in the heart, without straying outward, and realizing that one is the Self itself which is existence-consciousness-bliss.

(7) Dhyana:- This is meditation of the form ‘I am only pure consciousness’. That is, after leaving aside the body which consists of five sheaths, one enquires ‘Who am I’?, and as a result of that, one stays as ‘I’ which shines as the Self.

(8) Samadhi:- When the ‘I’-manifestation also ceases, there is (subtle) direct experience. This is samadhi.

-----------------

Hope readers here find these useful.

Om

saidevo
31 October 2007, 07:05 AM
Namaste Atanu and others.

1. Thank you for a lovely, useful synopsis of the eight limbs of the Ashtanga Yoga and Ashtanga Jnana.

As regards the "looking at the tip of the nose" under the Pratyahara discipline, Sri Yukteswar (Yogananda's guru) has this observation:



"Fix one's vision on the end of the nose." This inaccurate interpretation of a Bhagavad Gita stanza, 16-7 widely accepted by Eastern pundits and Western translators, used to arouse Master's droll criticism.

"The path of a yogi is singular enough as it is," he remarked. "Why counsel him that he must also make himself cross-eyed? The true meaning of nasikagram is 'origin of the nose, not 'end of the nose.' The nose begins at the point between the two eyebrows, the seat of spiritual vision." 16-8 Because of one Sankhya 16-9 aphorism, "Iswar-ashidha ,"-"A Lord of Creation cannot be deduced" or "God is not proved," 16-10 -many scholars call the whole philosophy atheistical.

"The verse is not nihilistic," Sri Yukteswar explained. "It merely signifies that to the unenlightened man, dependent on his senses for all final judgments, proof of God must remain unknown and therefore non-existent. True Sankhya followers, with unshakable insight born of meditation, understand that the Lord is both existent and knowable."


2. Yajwan, is there any specific meaning for the word 'Varanasi' that stands for the indestructible holy and first city of the world and the Ajna Chakra? Can we say for example,

vAra = gate, gateway, obstruction, enclosure in space and time, an exquisite choice

nAsikA - nostril, nose, of a place below

So, vAranAsi as the Ajna Chakra ostructs the normal flow of breath upwards and directs it into the lungs and heart; and vAranAsi as the holy city is the gateway to Self-realization?

And, as you have mentioned, fixing attention on the vAranAsi (third eye) heightens the effect of the time gap between the in and out breaths and helps momentary experience of the nature of that silence which is beyond thoughts.

yajvan
31 October 2007, 09:05 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan Ji,
Vigyan BhairavaTantra itself enumerates several methods. Different schools adapt some of those.
From Jnana school, the following is the teaching of Ramana Maharshi:
------------------------------
D: Of the means for mind-control, which is the most important?

M: Breath-control is the means for mind-control.

D: How is breath to be controlled?

M: Breath can be controlled either by absolute retention of breath (kevala-kumbhaka) or by regulation of breath (pranayama).
------------------------------

D: What are the limbs of yoga?


(3) Asana:- Of the different postures, eighty-four are the main ones. Of these, again, four, viz., simha, bhadra, padma, and siddha5 are said to be excellent. Of these too, it is only siddha, that is the most excellent. Thus the yoga-texts declare.

(4) Pranayama:- According to the measures prescribed in the sacred texts, exhaling the vital air is rechaka, inhaling is puraka and retaining it in the heart is kumbhaka. As regards ‘measure’, some texts say that rechaka and puraka should be equal in measure, and kumbhaka twice that measure, while other texts say that if rechaka is one measure, puraka should be of two measures, and kumbhaka of four. By ‘measure’ what is meant is the time that would be taken for the utterance of Gayatri.



Namaste atanu and saidevo....
thank you . this adds great value to the overall conversation.

Atanu - yes, this breath is so important for ones sadhana. The prana in pranayam. And bringing the breath to its subtle level (suksma vritti) to where the sadhu can't tell if s/he is even breathing. The beauty is, it is so simple anyone ( that breathes) can do this with little to no effort. Such a boon for ones sadhana.

and saidevo , as you wrote

vAra = gate, gateway, obstruction, enclosure in space and time, an exquisite choice;
nAsikA - nostril, nose, of a place below;
So, vAranAsi as the Ajna Chakra ostructs the normal flow of breath upwards and directs it into the lungs and heart; and vAranAsi as the holy city is the gateway to Self-realization?

I think this is spot on... Perhaps sarabhanga may wish to go to the bijakshara level , [ I think this brings him delight!] that of:
va - powerful, strong, Varuna, blow ( as in vAyu and in vAta)
vara - you will also find used for restraint in which holding the attention to the ājñā cakra makes sense.
ra - is fire, heat, vibration and the like e.g. fire/heat = tapas and control.
Like that we can take each bijaaksara and look to its meaning. Yet overall your assessment is a nice fit for varAnAsi.

What I find interesting is part of the 8 limbs of yoga (astanga yog) this asana is of interest... let me just to add another perspective on this one item. As I continue to study I always find an internal adjunct to an external action. Like yajya there are things one does externally (flowers, fruit, ghee, homan/havan) that represent the inner workings in consciousness. So what is it for asana? This notion of balance, of perfect pose, restful alertness in each asana, yes?

So, indulge me just for a second as we can review another offer put forth by the Siva Sutras when we string a view of the sutras together. This view is not opposite or antagonistic to asana poses, or any of the knowledge that has been offered but complimentary.

We sit and with the breath one of the 8 limbs, one is doing pranayam. And the 'blessing' is between the breaths, the gap, the balance that is there. Awareness is put between the breaths of up and down (prana and apana).
When awareness is there in continuity without loss (or chasing a thought or feeling)... this is bijavadhanam, the 15th sutra of the Third Awakening of the Siva Sutras; bija or seed + avadhana or concentration/attention - break-less awareness. This bijavadhanam compliments nadisamhara found in the 5th sutra... that is nadisamhara is the merging of breath movements, or continuity.

When this is established, this is perfect posture (asana)... on the out side one may be sitting in padmasana, yet on the inside, in awareness 'perfect posture' is also established. One is to do this with sukam; su =good/fine + kha= state, happiness, insistence, Brahman. A nice word that is used for this sukam is 'effortlessness'.

This is the asana when done internally is, balanced, between breaths, with effortlessness... no forcing , no push or pull from feelings or thoughts, this restfully alert condition. We cultivate this level of awareness in the 'village of the senses' the nervous system, so we can take this body-mind condition into our daily life. This is yoga. The union of outside field of action with this perfect balance in the inside.

To walk this earth in asana, balance, in yoga... so say the wise.

pranams,

saidevo
31 October 2007, 11:54 AM
Namaste Yajvan and others.



This is the asana when done internally is, balanced, between breaths, with effortlessness... no forcing, no push or pull from feelings or thoughts, this restfully alert condition. We cultivate this level of awareness in the 'village of the senses' the nervous system, so we can take this body-mind condition into our daily life. This is yoga. The union of outside field of action with this perfect balance in the inside.


Yes, I have observed that the rhythm of normal breath is upset not just by speech and song but also by thoughts and oral/mental chanting, with the difference that the oral/mental chanting of mantras can regulate the rhythm of breathing.

Of the spoken languages, I used to wonder if the western languages consume and upset breath--and one reason could be the slur in their speech--more than the Indian languages whose pronunciation is more marked and less slurred. Going by the emotion-ridden dialogues of Hollywood movies, I wonder if that is the way English is spoken by the general American or other English-speaking public, and if so, whether that might have a bearing on their spiritual perceptions and development. When I say this, I should also not forget to mention that the British Queen's English is the most pleasing delivery of spoken English I ever heard. I have an impression that the American English is deteriorating faster, since it is spoken as if by the tip of the tongue and has a lot of slurring besides gutter language. I am not familiar with other European languages.

When it comes to written English, however, I find that the American English is more natural and simpler than the customary British English, though it is permeated by slang. Since reading is also a mental dialogue, the way a language is written also has a bearing on breath control and spiritual development.

What are the thoughts and impressions of other members on this aspect of our daily life?

yajvan
31 October 2007, 02:47 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan and others.

Yes, I have observed that the rhythm of normal breath is upset not just by speech and song but also by thoughts and oral/mental chanting, with the difference that the oral/mental chanting of mantras can regulate the rhythm of breathing.

Of the spoken languages, I used to wonder if the western languages consume and upset breath--and one reason could be the slur in their speech--more than the Indian languages whose pronunciation is more marked and less slurred. Going by the emotion-ridden dialogues of Hollywood movies, I wonder if that is the way English is spoken by the general American or other English-speaking public, and if so, whether that might have a bearing on their spiritual perceptions and development. When I say this, I should also not forget to mention that the British Queen's English is the most pleasing delivery of spoken English I ever heard. I have an impression that the American English is deteriorating faster, since it is spoken as if by the tip of the tongue and has a lot of slurring besides gutter language. I am not familiar with other European languages.

When it comes to written English, however, I find that the American English is more natural and simpler than the customary British English, though it is permeated by slang. Since reading is also a mental dialogue, the way a language is written also has a bearing on breath control and spiritual development.

What are the thoughts and impressions of other members on this aspect of our daily life?

Namaste saidevo,
a interesting POV to consider... Having the opportunity to travel a bit I have found the English language to vary considerably across the USA. I also think the USA is till in its adolescence years - only 230 years old, where other countries have been around to polish their language a few thousand years. the USA started off 'British', yet the USA is the melting pot for every language you can think of, and it all rubs off , influencing the American language.

Nothing gets close to the melodic voice of the British i.e. Queens English.The French are equal in melody and can listen all day.
I compare that to German and I can only think of its abruptness and an attack on air. I mean no disrespect yet I find it hard to listen to. They have cornered the market on consonants and left all the vowels at the storehttp://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif.

If we wanted to look for the 'perfect' melody and therefore perhaps the regulation of breath that is most heathly I would think samaveda would be the best place.

Now what you say on the use of air/prana and upsetting the breath. A novel idea that I will need to ponder, I like the idea and will keep my eyes open to see if I read anything of this nature.

The breath for all humans, according to Ayurveda, determines ones length of life... my teacher has always said, save the breath.

prana-ms

sarabhanga
31 October 2007, 09:24 PM
Namaste Saidevo (et al.),

From the jAbAlopaniSad:


atha hainamatriH papraccha yAjñavalkyaM ya eSo'nanto'vyakta AtmA taM kathamahaM vijAnIyAmiti |

sa hovAca yAjñavalkyaH so'vimukta upAsyo ya eSo'nanto'vyakta AtmA so'vimukte pratiSThita iti |

so'vimuktaH kasminpratiSThita iti |
varaNAyAM nAshyAM ca madhye pratiSThita iti |

kA vai varaNA kA ca nAshIti |
sarvAnindriyakRtAndoSAnvArayatIti tena varaNA bhavati |
sarvAnindriyakRtAnpApAnnAshayatIti tena nAshI bhavatIti |

katamaM cAsya sthAnaM bhavatIti |
bhruvorghrANasya ca yaH sandhiH sa eSa dyaurlokasya parasya ca sandhirbhavatIti |
etadvai sandhiM sandhyAM brahmavida upAsata iti |
so'vimukta upAsya iti |
so'vimuktaM jñAnamaacaSTe |
yo vaitadevaM vedeti || 2 ||


Atri asked Yajñavalkya:
‘How am I to realize the AtmA which is infinite and unmanifest?’

Yajñavalkya replied:
‘That avimukta is to be worshipped; the AtmA which is infinite and unmanifest, is established in the avimukta.’

‘Which is that where avimukta is established?’
‘He is established in between varaNA and nAshI.’

‘What is varaNA and what is nAshI?’
‘The varaNA is so called as it wards off all the faults committed by the organs.
The nAshI is so named as it destroys all sins committed by the organs.’

‘Which is the seat of that?’
‘That, which is the juncture of the eye-brows and the nose, is the juncture of heaven and this world. The knowers of the veda worship indeed this sandhi as sandhyA. That avimukta is to be worshipped. He who knows this thus, imparts the wisdom of the avimukta.’


varaNa means “bridge”, and varaNasya is “of the bridge”.
varaNa-nasi is “at the bridge of the nose”, and vAra-nasi is “at the (proper or appointed) place of the nose”.

atanu
01 November 2007, 01:46 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste atanu and saidevo....
thank you . this adds great value to the overall conversation.

Atanu - yes, this breath is so important for ones sadhana. The prana in pranayam. And bringing the breath to its subtle level (suksma vritti) to where the sadhu can't tell if s/he is even breathing. The beauty is, it is so simple anyone ( that breathes) can do this with little to no effort. Such a boon for ones sadhana.
----
pranams,

Namaste Yajvan,

Yes, breath is important since it rises from the same place from where the mind rises. Attending to breath is comparatively easier as well.

But still the intent and knowledge component, if missing, the whole exercise does not benefit except at physical level. In some cases, the reverse may happen, Pranayama may bring to surface certain hidden desires which may create havoc in absence of a dispassionate mind.

I speak this from personal experience.

One must always remember the following:

(4) Pranayama (of Jnana Ashtanga):- Rechaka (exhalation) is removing the two unreal aspects of name and form from the objects constituting the world, the body etc., puraka (inhalation) is grasping the three real aspects, existence, consciousness and bliss, which are constant in those objects, and kumbhaka is retaining those aspects thus grasped.

Forgetting this is death. In the above knowledge of Pranayama is included the full truth. Without contemplating repeatedly, the importance of the passage is likey to pass un-noticed.

Om

yajvan
01 November 2007, 09:18 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Yajvan,

But still the intent and knowledge component, if missing, the whole exercise does not benefit except at physical level. In some cases, the reverse may happen, Pranayama may bring to surface certain hidden desires which may create havoc in absence of a dispassionate mind.

I speak this from personal experience.


Namste atanu,
you speak of experiences I have not had. Perhaps it is one of intent. I have always considered pranayama a complementary technique to my sadhana and to others I talk to about this. Where I am remiss is not considering people that may use this technique in a different way.

Let me pose this ... in your experience, you suggest that other hidden desires may manifest. May I ask , what was the criteria you applied that said prana ( or pranayam) was the cause of the hidden desires becoming manifest? How did you connect the two? This would be of interest for me and perhaps others to understand the rationale and a lesson of cause-and-effect.


pranams,

atanu
02 November 2007, 01:04 AM
Hari Om
~~~~

Namste atanu,
you speak of experiences I have not had. Perhaps it is one of intent. I have always considered pranayama a complementary technique to my sadhana and to others I talk to about this. Where I am remiss is not considering people that may use this technique in a different way.

Let me pose this ... in your experience, you suggest that other hidden desires may manifest. May I ask , what was the criteria you applied that said prana ( or pranayam) was the cause of the hidden desires becoming manifest? How did you connect the two? This would be of interest for me and perhaps others to understand the rationale and a lesson of cause-and-effect.

pranams,

Namaste Yajvan,

There are people who do pranayama for well being of health and not for spiritual reasons. Yoga techniques advocate dispassion with development of concentration.

Pranayama illuminates and in this process dredges out the dark things also before clearing those away (physical ailments and negative emotions included). During this period, supervision is required. Attainment of concentration, often brings out hidden powers and if dispassion has not been cultivated or desires have not attenuated then powers only strengthen the ego sense. It is always suggested that Pranayama practices should be done under expert supervision. Simple deep rythmic breathing or Anuloma-Viloma, if done within limits, have no such restrictions.

As Ramana Maharshi teaches: "See a man's ego with his limited powers. What would be the ego like if he develops yogic powers without knowing whose powers those were?"

My main point is that Yoga is not Hatha Yoga alone. The following knowledge should be remembered as much as possible.

One must always remember the following:

(4) Pranayama (of Jnana Ashtanga):- Rechaka (exhalation) is removing the two unreal aspects of name and form from the objects constituting the world, the body etc., puraka (inhalation) is grasping the three real aspects, existence, consciousness and bliss, which are constant in those objects, and kumbhaka is retaining those aspects thus grasped.
-------------------------

But in all these I now remember the Abhaya Mudra of God, and I know that all is well.

Om

anirvan
21 April 2011, 06:48 AM
the above danger is not restricted only to pranayam,but any yogic/tantrik practices that awakens kundalini and hence power. thats why yama,niyam and chitta-sudhi is primary steps before stepping up to such energy awakening practices.

only bhaktipatha has no such fear as here one gets power definitely,but not given to the person for free use.it is kept with Divine and only he allow it to be used when he feels so for benefit of the devotee.