Guduwara

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Tommorow im attending my first GUduwara wish me luck

[satay]

You mean 'Gurudwara', correct?

Good Luck.

[Eastern Mind]

Hmmm... never been to a gurdwara, although some are close by. Please let us know how it goes. Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

Hmmm... never been to a gurdwara, although some are close by. Please let us know how it goes. Aum Namasivaya

Why don't you visit one EM? It will be a great experience, I promise.
And the best part is the parsadam! Go next sunday...

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Why don't you visit one EM? It will be a great experience, I promise.
And the best part is the parsadam! Go next sunday...


Yea that was pretty good, I never had it before. The service begins with chanting of ragas from the Granith Sahib. As they chant verses there is a person who takes a "brush"-i dont really know how to describe it- and swings it back and fourth hovering above the holy book. Then Sikhs come up to a box where they donate money and pray at the altar. Afterwards there is a person who stands behind a podium and delivers a "sermon" in punjabi. Then we go downstairs to eat.
Service wise it is a mixture of Hinduism, Islam and Judaism. Its Hindu because of the singing, Islam in the sense that we are all sitting on the floor and Jewish in the sense that you have to wear a bandana before walking into the santuary and that there is food afterwards. It was nice i would go again but next time i would go an hour later so that way i wouldnt have to sit for two hours straight!


P.S. What is the Sikh greeting? There was a board member who was showing me around the place and he told me but i forgot

[Eastern Mind]

Thank you for sharing your experiences. Sounds a whole lot like a North Indian style temple service, which I've been to. I always am doubtful about the prasadam bit, as that seems to me an odd reason to visit a temple. Sometimes I've left before prasad is served, as I go to see God, not to eat. The fans are common in Hinduism as well. When we march our Ganesha on parade, the same fans are used in front of the deity, and I believe are just creating a nice cool refreshing breeze to clear the air, and vibration in front of the God, and in the Sikh case the holy book. I have never liked the sermons because I can't understand a word of it, either in Hindi, or Punjabi, as in your case. At our temple, there is no sermon. I suppose the food would be good. I really should go some day, just in the spirit of tolerance. Never been to a synagogue or a mosque either. Does anyone know the rules for non-believers?
Please tell me of the vibration you felt. Thats what I'm really interested in. Aum Namasivaya

[sarabhanga]

Namaste EM,



I always am doubtful about the prasadam bit, as that seems to me an odd reason to visit a temple.
Sometimes I've left before prasad is served.

prasAda is purity, clarity, illumination, tranquility, grace, and kindness, and you would leave before it is served?

The prasAda is the residuum of the sacrifice, the decoction of soma, and you would leave before it is served?

It seems that you have misunderstood the traditional purpose of the prasAdanA (worship or service).

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste EM,


prasAda is purity, clarity, illumination, tranquility, grace, and kindness, and you would leave before it is served?

The prasAda is the residuum of the sacrifice, the decoction of soma, and you would leave before it is served?

It seems that you have misunderstood the traditional purpose of the prasAdanA (worship or service).

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I do understand this about prasadam. I like the days besides Sundays, when the priest has prepared small offerings to the Gods, and the partaking of prasadam is relatively small. Even on the larger prasadam days, I don't mind taking prasadam. Its the fact that some people show up just for the prasadam, neglecting to worship at all. Also when people gorge on it, that irritates me. (Not that I should be irritated, just being intellectually honest here) At our temple, we have to 'guard' the prasadam so that people don't go for it even before the puja is over. Regarding the residuum of the sacrifice, the air, the essence, the holy vibration, darshan of the Gods, the teerthum, the vibhuthi, kumkum, flowers, is all prasadam to me. But then I'm used to the individualised style worship of South India, or Sri Lanka, not the congregational style of the north. Of course, when in Rome... Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

Sat sri akal sagefrakrobatik,


Yea that was pretty good, I never had it before. The service begins with chanting of ragas from the Granith Sahib.


The ragas are called 'Gurbani' literallly, Guru+bani or what the guru spoke of or what the guru said.



As they chant verses there is a person who takes a "brush"-i dont really know how to describe it- and swings it back and fourth hovering above the holy book. Then Sikhs come up to a box where they donate money and pray at the altar. Afterwards there is a person who stands behind a podium and delivers a "sermon" in punjabi. Then we go downstairs to eat.
Service wise it is a mixture of Hinduism, Islam and Judaism.


Guru Nanak the first guru of Sikhs had both hindu and muslims shisya. He took the best of both I suppose.



Its Hindu because of the singing, Islam in the sense that we are all sitting on the floor and Jewish in the sense that you have to wear a bandana before walking into the santuary and that there is food afterwards.


The 'bandana' is for those who do not wear the traditional turban. This includes visitors and those sikhs who choose to cut their hair. Though a traditional sikh is supposed to follow the 'five norms' given by the tenth guru, Guru Gobind Singh. One of these norms is to not cut hair, this includes facial hair and to wear a turban.



It was nice i would go again but next time i would go an hour later so that way i wouldnt have to sit for two hours straight!



I am surprised that the whole 'sermon' was in punjabi. Normally, it should be both in punjabi and english for obvious reasons. By the way, even in a hindu temple we sit on the floors.

[satay]

Namaste EM,


But then I'm used to the individualised style worship of South India, or Sri Lanka, not the congregational style of the north. Of course, when in Rome... Aum Namasivaya

Whether you are in the north or south, east or west, where there is a temple or gurudwara you should always take the parasadam! We don't go to the temple only to feel the vibration or to see God but to 'eat' his leftovers too! I feel empathy, that you go to the temple, serve God, yet somehow he is not allowing you to take his leftovers!! What the...

My comment about prasadam of gurudwara you will understand once you go visit one and actually stay till they serve the hot 'kra' in your hand and taste it.

[sm78]

... Islam in the sense that we are all sitting on the floor ...

aaii ... ? i have not seen anyone sitting on anything else on a hindu temple either.

u can say it is has a flavor of Islam as they worship a book (in a sense) and not deities.

Sitting on floor is absolutely Hindu, we have been doing it much before anybody else :D ... and muslims hardly get to sit on the floor really!!

[sm78]

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I do understand this about prasadam. I like the days besides Sundays, when the priest has prepared small offerings to the Gods, and the partaking of prasadam is relatively small. Even on the larger prasadam days, I don't mind taking prasadam. Its the fact that some people show up just for the prasadam, neglecting to worship at all. Also when people gorge on it, that irritates me. (Not that I should be irritated, just being intellectually honest here) At our temple, we have to 'guard' the prasadam so that people don't go for it even before the puja is over. Regarding the residuum of the sacrifice, the air, the essence, the holy vibration, darshan of the Gods, the teerthum, the vibhuthi, kumkum, flowers, is all prasadam to me. But then I'm used to the individualised style worship of South India, or Sri Lanka, not the congregational style of the north. Of course, when in Rome... Aum Namasivaya

Ya, I am with you on this ... because these days people want the short cut and they are really wanting a house and a car and not liberation.

Yes i find it quite strange that people who do not bother about god for most of the year suddenly throng the temple and the streets on some days of the year.

However nothing wrong with the rituals and practices...its the people who seemingly practice them.

[satay]

Namaste Singhi,

Although it seems hypocratic to go out in the crowds only on some days...what is a modern family of man to do?

The positive side is that at least those people do go out on 'some' days to be with God. No?

A house, a car is a legitimate thing for a grihasta to work for. Isn't it his dharma to provide the best care for his children and family?

How will the soceity run if everyone renounces their cars and houses?

I think that these kinds of expectations of grishtas have truly made him a schizophrenic.

We forget that there are are four ashrams and renoucing material things doesn't come until later in life. I don't know what the rule on ignoring our duty of current ashram is and jumping ahead into sanyas.

I am not against what you saying just thinking out loud...

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste EM,


I feel empathy, that you go to the temple, serve God, yet somehow he is not allowing you to take his leftovers!!

Empathy? Oh, please. I am truly blessed to be allowed in this religion at all by Bhairava, with Ganapati's acceptance. I am truly blessed to be allowed to serve some 300 hours a year beautifying the temple's outside. I am truly blessed to offer free distribution of some 800 pounds of fresh vegetables a year to the devotee's of God. Not to mention the fresh produce I allot myself. (Most of the devotees offer up the observation that these are the best vegetables available, as they come from Ganesha's garden.) I am truly blessed to work outside in the rays of the sun, and to get the prana of the fresh air 300 hours a year. I am truly blessed to follow a traditional sampradaya with a living Satguru. I am truly blessed to have been a pandaram priest for some 5 full years at same temple, to have rubbed Ganesha's tummy with abhishekam materials, to be the one called upon to call out the shakti of He with one tusk, to have had the personal touch of Ganesha. I am truly blessed to have all my needs met. I am truly blessed to have a loving spouse and 5 healthy children. Empathy for me? Nope, sorry. Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

namaste EM,


Empathy? Oh, please. I am truly blessed to be allowed in this religion at all by Bhairava, with Ganapati's acceptance. I am truly blessed to be allowed to serve some 300 hours a year beautifying the temple's outside. I am truly blessed to offer free distribution of some 800 pounds of fresh vegetables a year to the devotee's of God. Not to mention the fresh produce I allot myself. (Most of the devotees offer up the observation that these are the best vegetables available, as they come from Ganesha's garden.) I am truly blessed to work outside in the rays of the sun, and to get the prana of the fresh air 300 hours a year. I am truly blessed to follow a traditional sampradaya with a living Satguru. I am truly blessed to have been a pandaram priest for some 5 full years at same temple, to have rubbed Ganesha's tummy with abhishekam materials, to be the one called upon to call out the shakti of He with one tusk, to have had the personal touch of Ganesha. I am truly blessed to have all my needs met. I am truly blessed to have a loving spouse and 5 healthy children. Empathy for me? Nope, sorry. Aum Namasivaya


I didn't mean it in a demeaning way...it's just interesting.

It reminds me of a little personal story. My wife and I were visiting India after a very long time, it was my wife's first time in India. My family had planned to take us to all the famous tourist spots including some of the spiritual places in the north. We travelled for days on end. Hundreds of kms away from our house, after days of travelling, we arrive at this one particular mandir in vrindavan. All of us, go in and my brother decides to stay outside to 'watch our bags'. What a guy. We come out of the mandir, now its his turn to go in, yet, he refuses to go. For no apparent reason... I still can't fathom why he didn't take the few steps to go in the mandir after travelling hundreds of kms in the hot indian june.

Don't you think it is one's karma that makes these things happen? There is a saying in india that translates to 'without God's permission even a leaf doesn't move'...some travel hundreds of kms yet don't take the few steps to go in the temple and yet some don't take prasadam but are blessed with all other things.

Strange, the way this works...

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.

[sarabhanga]

I feel empathy, that you go to the temple …



Empathy? Oh, please … Empathy for me? Nope, sorry.

Namaste Satay and EM,

To avoid future confusion:

Empathy is “the power of mentally identifying oneself with (and so, fully comprehending) someone or something”.

And empathy is a very GOOD thing to have! :)

[satay]

Namaskar!




And empathy is a very GOOD thing to have! :)

And that's what I thought but by the tone of EM's post, I thought I had used the word incorrectly or used the wrong word. I can never be sure since english is not my mother tongue...

[Eastern Mind]

namaste EM,




I didn't mean it in a demeaning way...it's just interesting.

It reminds me of a little personal story. For no apparent reason... I still can't fathom why he didn't take the few steps to go in the mandir after travelling hundreds of kms in the hot indian june.

Don't you think it is one's karma that makes these things happen? There is a saying in india that translates to 'without God's permission even a leaf doesn't move'...some travel hundreds of kms yet don't take the few steps to go in the temple and yet some don't take prasadam but are blessed with all other things.

Strange, the way this works...

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.

Oh, you didn't offend me at all. I apologize for any words that may wrongly conveyed that message. I am with your brother totally. He saw the service of guarding your shoes as the same thing as going inside, is my guess. Service IS worship. Its just that different personalities take on worship differently. That's all i was pointing out. And yes, empathy is a good thing. Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste Satay and EM,

To avoid future confusion:

Empathy is “the power of mentally identifying oneself with (and so, fully comprehending) someone or something”.

And empathy is a very GOOD thing to have! :)

I agree wholeheartedly. I hope we all gained some here for understamding other's POV. And thank you for the clarification. Aum Namasivaya.

[Sagefrakrobatik]

aaii ... ? i have not seen anyone sitting on anything else on a hindu temple either.

u can say it is has a flavor of Islam as they worship a book (in a sense) and not deities.

Sitting on floor is absolutely Hindu, we have been doing it much before anybody else :D ... and muslims hardly get to sit on the floor really!!


I know i was at a Hindu temple during diwali.

[Sagefrakrobatik]

aaii ... ? i have not seen anyone sitting on anything else on a hindu temple either.

u can say it is has a flavor of Islam as they worship a book (in a sense) and not deities.

Sitting on floor is absolutely Hindu, we have been doing it much before anybody else :D ... and muslims hardly get to sit on the floor really!!

I ve been to a Hindu Temple during Diwali


Thank you for sharing your experiences. Sounds a whole lot like a North Indian style temple service, which I've been to. I always am doubtful about the prasadam bit, as that seems to me an odd reason to visit a temple. Sometimes I've left before prasad is served, as I go to see God, not to eat. The fans are common in Hinduism as well. When we march our Ganesha on parade, the same fans are used in front of the deity, and I believe are just creating a nice cool refreshing breeze to clear the air, and vibration in front of the God, and in the Sikh case the holy book. I have never liked the sermons because I can't understand a word of it, either in Hindi, or Punjabi, as in your case. At our temple, there is no sermon. I suppose the food would be good. I really should go some day, just in the spirit of tolerance. Never been to a synagogue or a mosque either. Does anyone know the rules for non-believers?
Please tell me of the vibration you felt. Thats what I'm really interested in. Aum Namasivaya


definately check out a Mosque and Synagouge. I would recomend going to reform, conservative and Orthodox jewish temples to get a full taste of Judaism.