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satay
07 May 2006, 11:24 PM
Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja the author of Caitanya-caritamrta says that all good qualities become manifest in the body of a Vaishnava and that only by the presence of these good qualities can one distinguish a Vaishnava from a non-Vaishnava or a good vaishnava from a not so good vaishnava.

1. krpalu: merciful
2. akrta-droha: humble
3. satya-sara: truthful
4. sama: equal to all
5. nidosa: faultless
6. vadanya: magnanimous
7. mrdu: mild
8. suci: clean
9. akincana: without material possessions
10. sarva-upakaraka: working for the welfare of everyone
11. santa: peaceful
12. krsna-eka-sarana: exclusively surrendered to Krishna
13. akama: desireless
14. aniha: indifferent to material acquisitions
15. sthira: fixed in devotional service
16. vijita-sat-guna: completely controlling the six bad qualities (lust, anger, greed, etc.)
17. mita-bhuk: eating only as much as required
18. apramatta: without inebriation
19. mana-da: respectful
20. amani: without false prestige
21. gambhira: grave
22. karuna: compassionate
23. maitra: a friend
24. kavi: a poet
25. daksa: expert
26. mauni: silent

satay
08 May 2006, 09:05 AM
As I thought, the vaishnavas on this forum are simply ignoring this post eh?
Any comments my fellow vaishnavas?:rolleyes:

Singhi Kaya
08 May 2006, 09:13 AM
What is there for a vaishnava to comment ? ~ I'm sure they all agree to this.

satay
08 May 2006, 09:30 AM
yes, yes they all agree...like the christians agree to all the commandments.

How many vaishnavas are practicing these?

Singhi Kaya
08 May 2006, 09:43 AM
How many vaishnavas are practicing these?

why should they start sharing that info with us, I would think it will be intensely personal ~ we are not their guru's nor judges.

satay
08 May 2006, 10:03 AM
I would think it will be intensely personal ~ we are not their guru's nor judges.

Yes, that's the point. It is 'intensely' personal. :) just like my beliefs in the supreme or even in the philosophies like advaita, dvaita or VA.;)

ramkish42
08 May 2006, 11:01 AM
Good Post.

But why do not you post also about Advaitis and Shaivist qualities like this, and request non vaishnavs not to belittle vaishnavs.

1. Gaudias
2. Belittleing Vishnu
3. Calling Vaishnav non vedic parampara
4. Excluding authority of Vaishnav to be part of Vedic Trayi

What not.

I am supposed to Mrudul to those who are ready to kill my sect as such with their own findings

I am supposed to be suci when every one around me are exact opposite

A good vaishnav is one who takes all the blames and keeps quite, if that is the one you expect, probably, Shri Satayji, you are the only Vaishnav of this sort. Hats off.

orlando
08 May 2006, 11:25 AM
Namaste all.
In the Uttara Khanda of Padma Purana,giving a detailed description of the qualities of a Vaishnava, Lord Mahadeva (Shiva) told Narad:
:
A person who has total devotion in Lord Vishnu is called a Vaishnava. He is truthful, kind and forgiving by nature. He engages himself in austere penance and refrains from any kind of violence. He wears a Tulsi bead in his neck and puts on tilak. He is well versed in sacred text like the vedas, Purans etc.The mere sight of a Vaishnava is enough to liberate a sinner from all his sins. Feeding a Vaishnava bestowes virtue equivalent to feeding thousand of ordinary brahmins.


Regards,
Orlando.

Singhi Kaya
08 May 2006, 11:30 AM
Namaste all.
In the Uttara Khanda of Padma Purana,giving a detailed description of the qualities of a Vaishnava, Lord Mahadeva (Shiva) told Narad:
:
A person who has total devotion in Lord Vishnu is called a Vaishnava. He is truthful, kind and forgiving by nature. He engages himself in austere penance and refrains from any kind of violence. He wears a Tulsi bead in his neck and puts on tilak. He is well versed in sacred text like the vedas, Purans etc.The mere sight of a Vaishnava is enough to liberate a sinner from all his sins. Feeding a Vaishnava bestowes virtue equivalent to feeding thousand of ordinary brahmins.


Regards,
Orlando.

Nice ... indeed a vaishnava is a servent of the Lord and mere sight of such a devoted being should be soothing for the mind. Vasihnavism is the supreme path of bhakti.

satay
08 May 2006, 12:07 PM
Good Post.

But why do not you post also about Advaitis and Shaivist qualities like this, and request non vaishnavs not to belittle vaishnavs.



I didn't come up with those qualities for vaishnava.:cool:



1. Gaudias
2. Belittleing Vishnu
3. Calling Vaishnav non vedic parampara
4. Excluding authority of Vaishnav to be part of Vedic Trayi

What not.


and? this hurts your ego?



I am supposed to Mrudul to those who are ready to kill my sect as such with their own findings


"kill my sect", yes, indeed it is about "my sect" isn't it?



I am supposed to be suci when every one around me are exact opposite

A good vaishnav is one who takes all the blames and keeps quite, if that is the one you expect, probably, Shri Satayji, you are the only Vaishnav of this sort. Hats off.

My fav. or what I have hard time with is...being... 2. akrta-droha: humble
but that was obvious to you already wasn't it?

:rolleyes:

ramkish42
08 May 2006, 12:48 PM
I didn't come up with those qualities for vaishnava.
I never said you invented it. This is not the first time you come with such posts

I know about your comments on Mahatma Gandhi, terming the very term Mahatma comes up with hidden facts. Seen your response in Gaudiya Vaishnav thread

Never ever you find some sort of advice to non vaishnav. You are literally happy if someone calles Prabhupada as person not to be dependable


and? this hurts your ego?
It really hurts my ego, for it is my Hinduism and Vaishnav is really a sect amongst the very religion.


"kill my sect", yes, indeed it is about "my sect" isn't it?
Yes, indeed a big yes, for I see no person who treats this as our sect. Every single person who joins Vaishnav is taken for task. When you do not court OUR feeling, all you can expect is MY feeling


My fav. or what I have hard time with is...being... 2. akrta-droha: humble but that was obvious to you already wasn't it?
This does not deserve my comments

Hats off and bye

satay
08 May 2006, 02:08 PM
I never said you invented it. This is not the first time you come with such posts

and?



I know about your comments on Mahatma Gandhi, terming the very term Mahatma comes up with hidden facts. Seen your response in Gaudiya Vaishnav thread

and?



Never ever you find some sort of advice to non vaishnav. You are literally happy if someone calles Prabhupada as person not to be dependable


why should I care about non-vaishnava?



It really hurts my ego, for it is my Hinduism and Vaishnav is really a sect amongst the very religion.

then perhaps you are not applying the Bhagwan's message you are just parrotting it but not applying it anywhere. Ego should be shunned.



Yes, indeed a big yes, for I see no person who treats this as our sect. Every single person who joins Vaishnav is taken for task. When you do not court OUR feeling, all you can expect is MY feeling

don't know what you are getting at here but that could be my english...



This does not deserve my comments

but you made one anyway...:cool:



Hats off and bye

Have a nice life whereever you are. :)

Pankaja
08 May 2006, 03:26 PM
Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja the author of Caitanya-caritamrta says that all good qualities become manifest in the body of a Vaishnava and that only by the presence of these good qualities can one distinguish a Vaishnava from a non-Vaishnava or a good vaishnava from a not so good vaishnava.

1. krpalu: merciful
2. akrta-droha: humble
3. satya-sara: truthful
4. sama: equal to all
5. nidosa: faultless
6. vadanya: magnanimous
7. mrdu: mild
8. suci: clean
9. akincana: without material possessions
10. sarva-upakaraka: working for the welfare of everyone
11. santa: peaceful
12. krsna-eka-sarana: exclusively surrendered to Krishna
13. akama: desireless
14. aniha: indifferent to material acquisitions
15. sthira: fixed in devotional service
16. vijita-sat-guna: completely controlling the six bad qualities (lust, anger, greed, etc.)
17. mita-bhuk: eating only as much as required
18. apramatta: without inebriation
19. mana-da: respectful
20. amani: without false prestige
21. gambhira: grave
22. karuna: compassionate
23. maitra: a friend
24. kavi: a poet
25. daksa: expert
26. mauni: silent

You only get these qualities if you chant. You can't get them by just thinking about them, and hoping one day you will get them.:D

Personally I have none of these qualities. (haha), I would like humbless. If I could have it.

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
08 May 2006, 04:22 PM
why should they start sharing that info with us, I would think it will be intensely personal ~ we are not their guru's nor judges.

Maybe because many Vaishnavas on this forum are constantly trying to change other people yet never seem to be interested in changing themselves. ~BYS~

satay
08 May 2006, 04:23 PM
You only get these qualities if you chant. You can't get them by just thinking about them, and hoping one day you will get them.:D

.

where does it say that? you mean to say that atheists don't have these qualities?

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
08 May 2006, 04:28 PM
You only get these qualities if you chant.

Can you prove it? ~BYS~

orlando
08 May 2006, 04:42 PM
Can you prove it? ~BYS~

Shri Valmiki became a great wise by chanting continually Mara Mara Mara...which is the contrary of Rama.

Pankaja
08 May 2006, 04:56 PM
where does it say that? you mean to say that atheists don't have these qualities?


Just imagine an athiest who is very humble. Whats the point? It's good, but what exactly is the point?:confused:

Pankaja
08 May 2006, 05:07 PM
Can you prove it? ~BYS~

Difficult to prove. Because even if a person like this exsists. It's hard for anybody to actually see the qualities. Because we tend to see faults more often. I think you need to be little impartial. And pray to Krishna.

Many times people claim to be incarnations of God, etc. But cannot exactly prove it. Or refuce to prove it. So the only proof we have is these qualities and also Sastra. Sastra says about incarnations and such, and also who a REAL Sadhu is. He accepts the Paramapara System (it could be 4 vaishnava or Shankcaharaya). Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita we MUST appraoch a Guru and learn from Him. This doesn't mean any old Guru lying on the street. It means somebody in the disicplic succussion (Krishna CAME to re-establish this system). It's really obvious. But it takes somebody to actually tell you these simple truths. You can judge who is false and who is true simply by asking them who they follow? If they have no Guru then it usually means they did have, but now have become an incarnation (therefore rejected their Guru). (in other words become a false, advertised incarnation, usually of oh lets say Krishna).

Sastra says Krishna comes once in a day of Brahma. Eh. There is no incarnation of Krishna. And even if there was it has to be verified (and the person has to belong to Parampara System). KRISHNA SAYS THIS. So first of all. These need to be established. Then later we can see whos chanting what. Hope that helps

satay
08 May 2006, 05:36 PM
Difficult to prove. Because even if a person like this exsists. It's hard for anybody to actually see the qualities. Because we tend to see faults more often. I think you need to be little impartial. And pray to Krishna.

Many times people claim to be incarnations of God, etc. But cannot exactly prove it. Or refuce to prove it. So the only proof we have is these qualities and also Sastra. Sastra says about incarnations and such, and also who a REAL Sadhu is. He accepts the Paramapara System (it could be 4 vaishnava or Shankcaharaya). Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita we MUST appraoch a Guru and learn from Him. This doesn't mean any old Guru lying on the street. It means somebody in the disicplic succussion (Krishna CAME to re-establish this system). It's really obvious. But it takes somebody to actually tell you these simple truths. You can judge who is false and who is true simply by asking them who they follow? If they have no Guru then it usually means they did have, but now have become an incarnation (therefore rejected their Guru). (in other words become a false, advertised incarnation, usually of oh lets say Krishna).

Sastra says Krishna comes once in a day of Brahma. Eh. There is no incarnation of Krishna. And even if there was it has to be verified (and the person has to belong to Parampara System). KRISHNA SAYS THIS. So first of all. These need to be established. Then later we can see whos chanting what. Hope that helps


hahaha this sounds more like the following:
man:how do i know bible is the truth
christian: because god revealed it to us
man: can you prove it?
christian: sure, read the bible. first you have to believe in god and the holy spirit then you have study the bible under someone knowledgeable's direction. (knowledgeable here means fundy) then holy spirit will work and you have to allow this spirit to come inside your heart. once all this is done then you will know that bible is the truth because it says so...

:D

come on, pankaj, you would have to do better than this.

satay
08 May 2006, 05:39 PM
Just imagine an athiest who is very humble. Whats the point? It's good, but what exactly is the point?:confused:

So you are saying that athiests can have these qualities but there is no point in them having them for them. so by your logic, we have to first believe in god and specifically to Krishna (not vishnu or shiva or any other entity) then and only then someone can become 'humble'?

Are you sure about this? Because I am going to nail you in the next posts...so be sure of what you answer.:)

Pankaja
08 May 2006, 11:24 PM
hahaha this sounds more like the following:
man:how do i know bible is the truth
christian: because god revealed it to us
man: can you prove it?
christian: sure, read the bible. first you have to believe in god and the holy spirit then you have study the bible under someone knowledgeable's direction. (knowledgeable here means fundy) then holy spirit will work and you have to allow this spirit to come inside your heart. once all this is done then you will know that bible is the truth because it says so...

:D

come on, pankaj, you would have to do better than this.

Eh? Sastra is from God, it's not man made. Well what you said probably wouldn't convince an athiest. But for us it should do. If not why not!

I never been an athiest, but I sometimes wonder if even God believers actually believe in God or are just making a show (or have some other motive).

If I tell you you can goto eternal heaven by doing some stuff, would you not accept it? Sure in the start. But later you would need some proof.

Not to be 'like that'. But Bhakti-yoga (devotional service to Krishna) is direct path.

Pankaja
08 May 2006, 11:28 PM
So you are saying that athiests can have these qualities but there is no point in them having them for them. so by your logic, we have to first believe in god and specifically to Krishna (not vishnu or shiva or any other entity) then and only then someone can become 'humble'?

Are you sure about this? Because I am going to nail you in the next posts...so be sure of what you answer.:)

Vishnu and Krishna are same (vishnu-tattva). So well what you going to say eh? Come on I am waiting..

Shiva is devotee of Krishna, so we don't think that His seperate. Krishna is Original Personality of Godhead (it says this in Bhagavatam). And Bhagavad-gita (Krishna proves by showing Vishnu-form). Can't really argue can you? :D

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
09 May 2006, 12:11 AM
Shri Valmiki became a great wise by chanting continually Mara Mara Mara...which is the contrary of Rama.

You did not provide proof as requested. Pankaja claimed that you ONLY get such qualities IF you chant. I need to see evidence of such a ridiculous claim. ~BYS~

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
09 May 2006, 12:22 AM
Difficult to prove. Because even if a person like this exsists. It's hard for anybody to actually see the qualities. Because we tend to see faults more often. I think you need to be little impartial. And pray to Krishna.

Many times people claim to be incarnations of God, etc. But cannot exactly prove it. Or refuce to prove it. So the only proof we have is these qualities and also Sastra. Sastra says about incarnations and such, and also who a REAL Sadhu is. He accepts the Paramapara System (it could be 4 vaishnava or Shankcaharaya). Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita we MUST appraoch a Guru and learn from Him. This doesn't mean any old Guru lying on the street. It means somebody in the disicplic succussion (Krishna CAME to re-establish this system). It's really obvious. But it takes somebody to actually tell you these simple truths. You can judge who is false and who is true simply by asking them who they follow? If they have no Guru then it usually means they did have, but now have become an incarnation (therefore rejected their Guru). (in other words become a false, advertised incarnation, usually of oh lets say Krishna).

Sastra says Krishna comes once in a day of Brahma. Eh. There is no incarnation of Krishna. And even if there was it has to be verified (and the person has to belong to Parampara System). KRISHNA SAYS THIS. So first of all. These need to be established. Then later we can see whos chanting what. Hope that helps

You didn't prove anything. If you cannot prove a claim, it is best not to make one. You said that you can ONLY attain such qualities IF you chant. I would like to see where in the shastras it says you can ONLY get those qualities IF you chant. I would also like to see where in the Bhagavad Gita it says that you can only have a guru that is in disciplic succession of one of the select schools that ISKCON states. I would like to see evidence from the scriptures and not mere writings from Prabhupada. Again, more ISKCON hand-waving as usual. Most Vaishnavas are not part of ISKCON and it is ridiculous to see ISKCON thinking it owns all of Vaishnavism. Your statements are not Vaishnava beliefs, but simply ISKCON beliefs. I suggest you prove your claims or I rest my case. ~BYS~

satay
09 May 2006, 01:09 AM
Eh? Sastra is from God, it's not man made. Well what you said probably wouldn't convince an athiest. But for us it should do. If not why not!

I never been an athiest, but I sometimes wonder if even God believers actually believe in God or are just making a show (or have some other motive).

If I tell you you can goto eternal heaven by doing some stuff, would you not accept it? Sure in the start. But later you would need some proof.

Not to be 'like that'. But Bhakti-yoga (devotional service to Krishna) is direct path.

I have no idea what you are trying to communicate but the example I gave you was to show how ridiculous your post was to BYS instead of proving your claim that you only get those qualities by chanting.

usual hand waving by iskconites...

satay
09 May 2006, 01:17 AM
Vishnu and Krishna are same (vishnu-tattva). So well what you going to say eh? Come on I am waiting..

don't know what you are waiting for. It is common knowledge that Vishnu and Krishna are the same since krishna is an avatar of Vishnu (not the other way around as iskconites tell their devotees).

The rest of your post has no meaning and just trying to change the flow of the thread. You said in one of your posts that an atheist can not have those qualities...then you said...what good is it if he has them...when I asked you to confirm what you said...instead of confirming and standing by what you said earlier that athiests can not have these qualities without first knowing god and specifically in the form of krishna...you posted this something about vishu/krishna tattva...

man, you are guys are just parrots of prabhupada...do you even read other people's posts or just try to copy shri prabhupada and dump all nonsense in his name?

Prabhu, please...swami prabhupada was against all imitation please do not become like a parrot and vomit his teachings, first try to understand what he is saying!!

Now, back to your original claim: Athiests can not have these qualities and if they do what good are they to them. is that what you said? meaning that atheists can not be humble etc.? is that what you mean?

please don't try to hand wave and for once try to stand your ground.

sarabhanga
09 May 2006, 01:47 AM
Namaste,

If the purpose of Creation is God's Lila, then I am sure that God would prefer us to play nicely. :) In a mutually supportive environment, every individual can be raised up to their best, and in such a world there would be more souls drawn more surely to the ultimate Truth.

All of the listed qualities are of benefit to every individual in any human society!

sarabhanga
09 May 2006, 02:18 AM
Pushpadanta told that persons following the various paths of: Trayi (Rik, Yajus, and Sama), Samkhya (of Kapila), Yoga (of Patanjali), Pashupata (i.e. Shaiva), and Vaishnava, ~ be they straight or crooked paths ~ as they each accordingly follow the path that is appropriate for their particular temperament, they ALL attain the same goal in the end.

As a follower of both Shaivism and Yoga, not to mention Vedanta, much of my own understanding has also been distinguished from Trayi! So what?

My faith is unaffected, and no Shaiva, no Yogin, nor any Advaita Vedantin, has objected to this line from Pushpadanta's own mouth!

Pankaja
09 May 2006, 03:42 AM
You didn't prove anything. If you cannot prove a claim, it is best not to make one. You said that you can ONLY attain such qualities IF you chant. I would like to see where in the shastras it says you can ONLY get those qualities IF you chant. I would also like to see where in the Bhagavad Gita it says that you can only have a guru that is in disciplic succession of one of the select schools that ISKCON states. I would like to see evidence from the scriptures and not mere writings from Prabhupada. Again, more ISKCON hand-waving as usual. Most Vaishnavas are not part of ISKCON and it is ridiculous to see ISKCON thinking it owns all of Vaishnavism. Your statements are not Vaishnava beliefs, but simply ISKCON beliefs. I suggest you prove your claims or I rest my case. ~BYS~

This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. Bg.4.2

That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend; therefore you can understand the transcendental mystery of this science. Bg.4.3

It says in Bhagavad-gita, Prabhupada didn't make anything up. He learnt everything from His own Gurudeva, and His Gurudeva learnt everything from His own Gurudeva. Krishna says above that it was lost. And He (Krishna) came to re-establish it again. So this is not an Iskcon belifef system. Krishna is saying this. Actually every Sampradaya accepts this.

Pankaja
09 May 2006, 03:50 AM
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate but the example I gave you was to show how ridiculous your post was to BYS instead of proving your claim that you only get those qualities by chanting.

usual hand waving by iskconites...


You can get by serving Guru also.

Pankaja
09 May 2006, 03:54 AM
don't know what you are waiting for. It is common knowledge that Vishnu and Krishna are the same since krishna is an avatar of Vishnu (not the other way around as iskconites tell their devotees).

The rest of your post has no meaning and just trying to change the flow of the thread. You said in one of your posts that an atheist can not have those qualities...then you said...what good is it if he has them...when I asked you to confirm what you said...instead of confirming and standing by what you said earlier that athiests can not have these qualities without first knowing god and specifically in the form of krishna...you posted this something about vishu/krishna tattva...

man, you are guys are just parrots of prabhupada...do you even read other people's posts or just try to copy shri prabhupada and dump all nonsense in his name?

Prabhu, please...swami prabhupada was against all imitation please do not become like a parrot and vomit his teachings, first try to understand what he is saying!!

Now, back to your original claim: Athiests can not have these qualities and if they do what good are they to them. is that what you said? meaning that atheists can not be humble etc.? is that what you mean?

please don't try to hand wave and for once try to stand your ground.


In Bhagavatam it says differently. That Krishna is avatari. Anyway I don't want to explain since you don;t want to hear. Neither will i give the verse.

Pankaja
09 May 2006, 04:01 AM
Leaving the forum.

TO tell the truth I came here to talk. And I was very pleasent. But people here have something against Prabhupada (my Guru) and they seem to make remarks. Without having respect for a devotee of the Lord. I don't see any reason why I should stay here. If you think I am sensitive that's okay. But if no respect is shown to a sannayasi-vaishnava even in a Hindu Forum. Then I cannot see any way out.

Singhi Kaya
09 May 2006, 04:11 AM
I somewhat agree to you. Actually quite funnily most hindu's intrinsically don't tolerate abrahamism (inspite of so called tolerance) and what you displayed (alebit without any anger I must say) was pure abrahamism. I think I was right from the begining about ISKCON. I also don't tolerate abrahamism but I personally don't mind ISKCON much, as I want to tackle the real abrahamisms~they threat our existence.

satay
09 May 2006, 09:35 AM
Leaving the forum.

TO tell the truth I came here to talk. And I was very pleasent. But people here have something against Prabhupada (my Guru) and they seem to make remarks. Without having respect for a devotee of the Lord. I don't see any reason why I should stay here. If you think I am sensitive that's okay. But if no respect is shown to a sannayasi-vaishnava even in a Hindu Forum. Then I cannot see any way out.

prabhu,
This is a typical behaviour of christians as well...when the questions get tough and focused they leave the discussion waving hands and saying...I will pray for you!

We don't have anything against Shri Prabhupada and in fact, I enjoy a lot of his writing and in fact admire him. What I dislike is people trying to imitate him when he clearly instructed not to do that. I also dislike people just parroting out some shlokas here and there just to shove Govinda in other people's throats...

Do not degrade Govinda like this. He never asked to be shoved down other people's throats...

Try to first learn shri prabhupada's teachings properly and chant the name of Hari...

namaskaram!

vedic_kings
09 May 2006, 10:55 AM
hahaha this sounds more like the following:
man:how do i know bible is the truth
christian: because god revealed it to us
man: can you prove it?
christian: sure, read the bible. first you have to believe in god and the holy spirit then you have study the bible under someone knowledgeable's direction. (knowledgeable here means fundy) then holy spirit will work and you have to allow this spirit to come inside your heart. once all this is done then you will know that bible is the truth because it says so...

:D

come on, pankaj, you would have to do better than this.

Lol!:D

I think I learnd that at the CF;)

vedic_kings
09 May 2006, 11:03 AM
Now, back to your original claim: Athiests can not have these qualities and if they do what good are they to them. is that what you said? meaning that atheists can not be humble etc.? is that what you mean?


The real qusetion should be what can Athiests behold?

vedic_kings
09 May 2006, 11:11 AM
Namaste,

If the purpose of Creation is God's Lila, then I am sure that God would prefer us to play nicely. :) In a mutually supportive environment, every individual can be raised up to their best, and in such a world there would be more souls drawn more surely to the ultimate Truth.

All of the listed qualities are of benefit to every individual in any human society!

Im with you on this one:)

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
09 May 2006, 07:40 PM
This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost. Bg.4.2

That very ancient science of the relationship with the Supreme is today told by Me to you because you are My devotee as well as My friend; therefore you can understand the transcendental mystery of this science. Bg.4.3

It says in Bhagavad-gita, Prabhupada didn't make anything up. He learnt everything from His own Gurudeva, and His Gurudeva learnt everything from His own Gurudeva. Krishna says above that it was lost. And He (Krishna) came to re-establish it again. So this is not an Iskcon belifef system. Krishna is saying this. Actually every Sampradaya accepts this.

These appear to be completely valid quotes or translations. However, it still doesn't prove the ISKCON claim that only select lines of disciplic succession are valid. In fact, ISKCON won't accept ANY line other than the one Prabhupada is in. Few if any other Vaishnava schools hold such rigid views. You won't be accepted in ISKCON if you take a guru that isn't "registered" with ISKCON and the GBC even if he is a Gaudiya Vaishnava in the same or a different line. This is the claim I would like you to explain. ~BYS~

Jalasayanan
10 May 2006, 12:50 PM
Ramkish is out
Pankaja is out
Namo Narayana is out
R Kannan is not seen for days
Bhakta of God, wanted to move out but stayed back for Ramkish it seems

Who else is Vaishnav here, probably me and Satay.

TruthSeeker
15 May 2006, 04:05 AM
Namaste,

If the purpose of Creation is God's Lila, then I am sure that God would prefer us to play nicely. :) In a mutually supportive environment, every individual can be raised up to their best, and in such a world there would be more souls drawn more surely to the ultimate Truth.

All of the listed qualities are of benefit to every individual in any human society!

I suppose this chaos is the very Lila? The world would be devoid of all fun with everyone being very nice. No media news, no hot debates,....thank God for making all this so much fun and entertaining.:)

What happens when every turns out very nice and quickly exhaust his karma? That would abruptly end God's Lila. The variety, including all bigotry and hatred is the very "purpose" of creation without which everyone would have been liberated long ago - not God's plan anyway to quickly terminate all his Lila. Lila is never supposed to end and never had a beginning. Lila exists as long as you want, and as long as you are not willing to transcend to the Absolute.

Jalasayanan
19 May 2006, 11:55 AM
Ramkish is out
Pankaja is out
Namo Narayana is out
R Kannan is not seen for days
Bhakta of God, wanted to move out but stayed back for Ramkish it seems

Who else is Vaishnav here, probably me and Satay.
What a good vaishnav is supposed to do when one moderator feels


ps: as you know, I am the first one to make noise if vaishnavas try to become like adharmic missionaries and shove vishnu down other people's throats...that doesn't mean that we allow anti-vaishnava posts on this forum.

where in the other moderator feels


The content of the post does not appear to be a problem. The problem with the post is that it is in the wrong forum and not just in the wrong forum but in a forum that is likely to cause a flame. Because the post involves discussing more than one tradition or comparing/contrasting, it should have been posted in the "other" area of the "God in Hindu Dharma" category. ~BYS~

Is not this Vaishnav hatered on behalf of Moderator?

What a good vaishnav is supposed to do?

To the list of people who left this forum, now Ram is also included, who really feels Satay is a good friend.

To be honest, this is my last posting here after BYS posting.

I accuse BYS as Vaishnav hating moderator, who moderates with his personal opinion and not in accordance with rules of this forum. If moderator can track PMs, it will evident that many accuse BYS being shameless for this.

Thanks Satay for this forum. Hope you will start a new forum soon

satay
19 May 2006, 01:46 PM
Is not this Vaishnav hatered on behalf of Moderator?


No it is not. For the 10th time already. No regular poster of this forum is a vaishnava hater including BYS.



To the list of people who left this forum, now Ram is also included, who really feels Satay is a good friend.

Yes, Ram is a very good friend.



To be honest, this is my last posting here after BYS posting.

I accuse BYS as Vaishnav hating moderator, who moderates with his personal opinion and not in accordance with rules of this forum.


I disagree with this completely. I don't think BYS is vaishnava hater, to the contraray, he wants all hindus to rise to a higher level and not engage in dog fights as adherents of other religions do.

I support BYS fully in his moderation activities. No where he has displayed any personal hatred towards vaishnava. But I have seen vaishnavas displaying personal grudges against him and making personal attacks. Your post is one such post.



If moderator can track PMs, it will evident that many accuse BYS being shameless for this.


If everyone follows the rules of the site there will be no problem.



Thanks Satay for this forum. Hope you will start a new forum soon

You are welcome. I will not start a new forum as this is the only forum that I had in mind. I am not going to start a vaishnava only forum if that's what you are suggesting though you are free to start one if you would like.

By the way, your post is breaking site rules and is in the wrong forum. It should be moved to the feedback forum. I will leave it to BYS to do this.

Again, We are not vaishnava haters. We object to people shoving something down other people's throats be it shivas, vaishnavas, buddhists or whatever other traditions or religions. Anyone who does that and breaks the rules of the site will be treated the same way.

Preaching on the site is not allowed but discussion is encouraged.

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
19 May 2006, 10:34 PM
Moderator Note:

To: Jalasayanan

I don't have time to waste with such nuissance posts when I could spend it instead on doing something Hindu-related that is actually valuable. You are constantly complaining about me in multiple threads and forums where it is completely off-topic. It appears that your presence here has no purpose other than to cause conflict. If I see any more of this in the future, your account will be banned without question.

Do you have any questions or comments about moderation policy? If so, please send a private message to Bhakti Yoga Seeker or contact one of the other administrators of this website. ~BYS~