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Bob G
03 January 2008, 10:50 PM
Hello Yajvan,

I put this quote in the Buddhist section becuase it is from a wonderful Buddhist lady. (who is now passed) It may have some bearing to the question you asked me in the Taoism thread. (I edited the quote to jump right into the matter without preface)

"...Still, all the reassurance was yielding no joy, until an abrupt transition saw a change in knowledge from 'There is no personal self', to 'There is no other'.This occurred while Suzan Segal was driving to see some friends when:

"I suddenly became aware that I was driving through myself. For years there had been no self at all, yet here on this road, everything was myself, and I was driving through me to arrive where I already was. In essence, I was going nowhere because I was everywhere already. The infinite emptiness I knew myself to be was now apparent as the infinite substance of everything I saw."



...and perhaps some Buddhists may not agree with her, but that was a recounting of her own experience.

yajvan
04 January 2008, 06:42 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Hello Yajvan,

I put this quote in the Buddhist section because it is from a wonderful Buddhist lady. (who is now passed) It may have some bearing to the question you asked me in the Taoism thread. (I edited the quote to jump right into the matter without preface)




"...Still, all the reassurance was yielding no joy, until an abrupt transition saw a change in knowledge from 'There is no personal self', to 'There is no other'.This occurred while Suzan Segal was driving to see some friends when:
"I suddenly became aware that I was driving through myself. For years there had been no self at all, yet here on this road, everything was myself, and I was driving through me to arrive where I already was. In essence, I was going nowhere because I was everywhere already. The infinite emptiness I knew myself to be was now apparent as the infinite substance of everything I saw."
...and perhaps some Buddhists may not agree with her, but that was a recounting of her own experience.

Namaste BobG,

A very nice experience I would say. From my talks with the person that became absorbed in Brahman for 4 months straight, this parallels his experience.
It is curious that the lady above described it as empty, then as infinite substance. I can see how it can be both i.e. a room empty yet filled with a 'feeling', like that.

Any way, as my friend said, it is all words e.g. full, empty, big, small, etc. The more I talked to him about it the more he was mused by the words. Funny to note, he too had this profound experience while driving.

IMHO until you (us) have the experience ( and its my contention it needs to be there for a while so you can get comfortable with it i.e. not just a fleeting moment) then one can come to know this place. We try and describe it the best we can, the muni's do also, yet at times, the words get in the way.

'There is no personal self' - music to my ears. It is just this one point alone that is the wisdom of the ages.

Thank you for taking the time to post this. I am happy that people are having these experiences. It suggests that the light is there, and we need to allow it to come forth.

pranams

Bob G
04 January 2008, 07:19 AM
Good morning Yajvan,

Um, well it was kind of disconcerting to me (in transition) to find out there is only one of us, especially in juxtapostion to the apparent self importantance of all the personal-picture-dramas that I normally hold so dear. (lol)

Anyway, the price of admission is very high and frankly I'm not ready to pay in full...also I think that few of us really are which is ok during transition.

yajvan
04 January 2008, 07:38 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Good morning Yajvan,

Um, well it was kind of disconcerting to me (in transition) to find out there is only one of us, especially in juxtapostion to the apparent self importantance of all the personal-picture-dramas that I normally hold so dear. (lol)

Anyway, the price of admission is very high and frankly I'm not ready to pay in full...also I think that few of us really are which is ok during transition.


Hello BG,
all I can say is sign me up... hold that , I am signed up!

yajvan
04 January 2008, 10:26 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Good morning Yajvan,
Anyway, the price of admission is very high and frankly I'm not ready to pay in full...

Namaste BG,
It would be interesting to hear what you perceive as the cost of admission.


pranams

Bob G
04 January 2008, 11:52 AM
Hello Yajvan,

It is said that there are millions+ of great Gods (Victory to the Devas and MahaDevas) existing in the heavenly lokas, and for what it's worth I feel that they have paid a very major price, and are helping all types of Beings in major ways that are beyond human knowing! But even many of them have not quite paid the full price yet...for many of them are existing (and apparently in transition?) as individuals in the heavenly lokas.

Om

yajvan
04 January 2008, 01:11 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Hello Yajvan,

It is said that there are millions+ of great Gods (Victory to the Devas and MahaDevas) existing in the heavenly lokas, and for what it's worth I feel that they have paid a very major price, and are helping all types of Beings in major ways that are beyond human knowing! But even many of them have not quite paid the full price yet...for many of them are existing (and apparently in transition?) as individuals in the heavenly lokas.

Om

Namaste BG,
yes, but what is the price measured in? What do you think they , the devata, had to do , or what do you think you have to do to move forward spiritually?

I agree the devata are there to help, this is the essence of yagya that is pointed out in the Bhagavad Gita (Chapt 2.9 to 2.15). Many of the devata did not start with human form (say the shastras), and started as devata to begin with.

So , I guess where I was going with this, I was trying to get a sense of what you think your effort (a.k.a the price of admission or very major price) would require... what actions or sadhana, or the like.

pranams

Bob G
04 January 2008, 02:02 PM
Hello Yajvan,

I'm sure that you already know parts of the answer to parts of the question you ask.

And is not the rest unfolding in or during transition for you, me and everyone else? I'm not a journeyman or an expert on these matters by many lightyears... just some guy on the internet sharing a few things, and I'm also glad to come across a few things that are being shared.

Nothing can encompass the unencompass-able.

yajvan
04 January 2008, 02:22 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~


Namaste and hello BG,


is not the rest unfolding in or during transition for you, me and everyone else?

Yes, this is true... for some they know it is going on and support and nurture the unfoldment. For others they are not aware of it.
Krsna says ' no effort is ever lost' - a very important point. For many the unfoldment takes lifetimes. So having congruent effort for ones development seems to be a wise choice.



And I'm not a journeyman or an expert on these matters by many lightyears... just some guy on the internet sharing a few things, and I'm also glad to come across a few things that are being shared.

This is good, as we all are students of life... this is how I see it. Some know more some less and there some sharing.
For me I have found I am happy to throw out notions that are superceded by more insightful knowledge that brings one closer to the full truth.

So, what makes an expert then?
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field. Niels Bohr

So this notion of expert coming with trial, error, some success and then movement foreward. Hence Krsna's words 'no effort is ever lost' rings true.

pranams,

yajvan
05 January 2008, 11:58 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

the price of admission is very high and frankly I'm not ready to pay in full...also I think that few of us really are which is ok during transition.

Namaste BG,
I thought if its ok, I will take a stab at answering this question I asked you,

I was trying to get a sense of what you think your effort (a.k.a the price of admission or very major price) would require... what actions or sadhana, or the like.

My thoughts on this entry fee or payment notion are guided by the Upanisads and Yoga Vasistha... see what you think:

The Upanishads simply says sa kratum kurvita or, 'he should make the resolve'. This is said after the rishi states "all is Brahman" – pointing to the notion of one making the 'resolve' to to realize Brahman.

Yet the word 'kratu' in English i.e. resolve , is less then adequate to describe what the rishi is trying to instruct/communicate. So we look to Adi Shankara and he explains it as ' a firm will with a fixed idea and sense of certainty that this is so, not otherwise' . This is summed up in one sanskrit word called adhyavasaya or conviction or affirmation to unfold this Brahman, this truth, fullness, Bhuma, in ones being and life.

This is considered faith (shradda) that I am subscribing to. That without doubt this Brahman is the core of my Being and that I can realize this truth.

Now an addition to this is the following: In Vasistha's Yoga ( the conversation of Vasistha with Sri Ram) he says to Ram " there are 4 gatekeepers at the entrance to the realm of Moksha (Liberation or enlightenment) that is: self-control, spirit of enquiry, contentment, and good company (satsang)"

" He who wears the armor of self control is not harmed by sorrows." Enquiry, the study of the sruti and smurti he says " the intelligence becomes keen and is able to realize the Supreme"; With contentment - "one does not crave" and one that is not content in the SELF will be subjected to sorrow. Satsang or the company of the wise and enlightened "enlarges ones intelligence" and "is superior to all other forms of religious practice like charity, austerity, pilgrimage, rites, etc". He concludes by saying " if you cannot practice all 4 , practice one."

Now the last part.
That I need not go further then my SELF to realize this Brahman. That is, ones owns sadhana, some call spiritual practice is the tool. Sadhana at its root, dhana or 'treasure' is no further then me, Atman. I am THAT, is not a philosophical construct, but is in fact reality.

Even though I make the choice to realize the SELF, it is the SELF that reveals it-SELF to it-SELF ( this can be called HIS grace). Hence, it is my resolve, delight, and responsibility to set up the conditions for this realization to occur via faith + resolve + 4 gatekeepers = conditions for SELF realization.

So for me, and my orientation, the entry fee is to set the conditions for the SELF to realize itSELF, by itSELF.

pranams

Bob G
06 January 2008, 09:28 AM
Hello Yajvan,

That is a very fine post you composed! Sounds like you have an excellent plan to me! I wish you well on your path. :-)

One comment or bit of advice if I may?...in setting conditions (so to speak) still allow that the "Self" can strike at any moment using any and all means (or conditions) possible or seeminly impossible, and or when least expected!

Om