Meditation in Shaivism?

[srivijaya]

As someone who meditates regularly, I have gained a great admiration for the Shaivite texts I have read. This is due to the fact that I believe I may have witnessed some of the things described therein whilst within the state of Samhadi. I have always felt a strong affinity towards Shiva and Shakti and so was happy to have stumbled upon this forum, whose members seem very well informed and serious.

I have no background of study into Shaivism, beyond that of the most shallow dilettante, and my meditation has brought me to a stage where I now have little wish to classify myself as anything at all! I am, however, interested in higher meditative instruction, as taught by the various Shaivite schools. The teachings of the Non-dual Shaivism of Kashmir especially resonate.

May I ask how the tantric and non-tantric schools differ in their approach to meditation?

Namaste

[srivijaya]

In order to provide more background on some of the Shaivite material that has been directly beneficial within my practice, or has inspired me, I have included some links below. I'm in no position to objectively judge the content, so any feedback would be welcome. I have also enjoyed reading the posts that contributors have placed in this forum and shall continue to do so.

http://www.universalshaivafellowship.org/usf/swamiji.html

http://www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com.ar/english/trika_meditation/meditation1.html

A personal favorite:
http://www.spiritual-teachers.com/returntoshiva.htm

With 27 views and no replies, I sincerely hope that I have not caused any offense.

Namaste

[sm78]

May I ask how the tantric and non-tantric schools differ in their approach to meditation?

Namaste

Using the word tantra more generally to accommodate all agamas and related shastras, all practical meditation techniques which are not based on tantras are mere theory in this yuga. IMHO (and of the tantras themselves too)

[atanu]

In order to provide more background on some of the Shaivite material that has been directly beneficial within my practice, or has inspired me, I have included some links below. I'm in no position to objectively judge the content, so any feedback would be welcome. I have also enjoyed reading the posts that contributors have placed in this forum and shall continue to do so.

http://www.universalshaivafellowship.org/usf/swamiji.html

http://www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com.ar/english/trika_meditation/meditation1.html

A personal favorite:
http://www.spiritual-teachers.com/returntoshiva.htm

With 27 views and no replies, I sincerely hope that I have not caused any offense.

Namaste

Namaste srivijaya,

Certainly you have caused no offense. It is beyond me why there has been no reply? May be there are only a few true orthodox Shaivites. But answers will come. I have had no time to study the links that you have provided (may be those who are qualified to answer your query are studying these links).

I wish to point out a thing. Most Hindus, whether Shaiva, Vaishnava, or Smarta, follow Patanjali's Yoga Sutras on matters of Yoga. And ultimate meditation is on OM -- knowing it as every conceivable thing on the Universe in all states and at all times. And it is the Yonder God as well.

Patanjali however describes all stages -- from meditating on manifest objects to manifest consciousness, to the absolute inconceivable.

If you have not yet read Yoga Sutras, I suggest you may wish to do so at your level of development.

The following may help:

Uttara Gita

[Initiation of Arjuna by Sri Krishna into Yoga and Jnana]
English Translation by B. K. Laheri.

10. Such a seeker of Brahman, after fixing his mind as aforesaid, and shutting himself out of all objective knowledge (Ajnãna), should hold fast the support of unchangeable Jnãna, and think of the One Indivisible Brahman in the inner and outer Akãsa, that exists at the end of the nose, and into which the life-breath merges.

11. Freed from both nostrils where the life-breath disappears, there in the heart fix thy mind, O Pãrtha, and meditate upon the All-Supreme Isvara.

12. Meditate on Shiva, there, as devoid of all conditions of life, pure but without lustre (Prabhã), mindless, Buddhi-less.

16. He that has acquired the Supreme Knowledge by the aid of the knowledge derived from instruction from a Guru, and has learned to place the object of this knowledge in his heart, and he that has acquired peace of mind, such a person requires no Yoga for further practice, and no meditation for further conception.

17. The syllable (Aum) with which the Vedas begin, which figures in the middle of the Vedas, and with which the Vedas end, unites Prakrti with its Own Self; but that which is beyond this Prakrti-united-Pranava is Mahesvara.

-------------------------------

Shri Devi said: One may meditate on a visible image, O Mahadeva. What is the nature of meditation on the invisible? Shri Shankara said: O Devi, sound, uttered by me, is the absolute. By pronouncing a mantra with a devoted mind, there is invisible meditation and so forth. Maheshvari, this is true, true, self evident, undoubtedly - Matrikabhedatantra XII, 5-7


Best Wishes, Warm Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[satay]

Namaskar srivijaya,

Welcome to HDF!


With 27 views and no replies, I sincerely hope that I have not caused any offense.

Namaste

It is my observation on HDF that most members meditate on the questions being asked and put a tremendous amount of thought before answering. You will find that HDF is unique in that regard compared to other discussion forums where usually people jump in quickly with their opinions without any backup.

[Agnideva]

Namaste Srivijaya,

Yes, please be patient. Answers are slow to come sometimes on the forum, but you can rest assured that they will come!

Generally speaking, all forms of Hinduism that we practice today are strongly influenced, if not based on, Tantra - whether they admit it or not. There is no branch of Shaivism that is independent of Tantra. Shaivites, however, prefer to call their Tantric texts Agamas, even when the proper name of the book is Tantra.

Most Hindu sects use the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali as a general guide for meditation and raja yoga, as said by Atanu already. However, it is often opined that teachings regarding the Chakras, Kundalini Shakti, the Nadis (ida, pingala, sushumna, etc.) are the contributions of Tantra to yogic meditation.


Aum Namah Shivaya.

[srivijaya]

Namaskar srivijaya,

Welcome to HDF!



It is my observation on HDF that most members meditate on the questions being asked and put a tremendous amount of thought before answering. You will find that HDF is unique in that regard compared to other discussion forums where usually people jump in quickly with their opinions without any backup.

Thanks for the warm welcome satay and thanks to everyone for the replies. I know it's a complex topic and a well thought out post is always worth the wait.

Namaste

[sarabhanga]

May I ask how the tantric and non-tantric schools differ in their approach to meditation?

Namaste Sri Vijaya,

And welcome to HDF. :)

Since all schools employ some form of tantram, I must first ask how you understand the "tantric" and "non-tantric" schools as being separated?

I suppose the major separation is advaita tantram vs dvaita tantram, and the basic difference in their approach should be clear.

[srivijaya]

Namaste Sri Vijaya,

And welcome to HDF. :)

Since all schools employ some form of tantram, I must first ask how you understand the "tantric" and "non-tantric" schools as being separated?

I suppose the major separation is advaita tantram vs dvaita tantram, and the basic difference in their approach should be clear.

Namaste sarabhanga,
Thank you for the welcome.

As regards how I understand the “tantric” and “non-tantric” to be separated; to be honest (having read what has been posted so far) I’m not at all sure they are.
Agnideva wrote that “There is no branch of Shaivism that is independent of Tantra.” So, perhaps my question was misguided.

Am I correct in assuming that the basic difference in the approach of advaita tantram and dvaita tantram, is philosophical, rather than practical?

My own understanding of 'tantric practice' is neatly summed up by Agnideva as “teachings regarding the Chakras, Kundalini Shakti, the Nadis (ida, pingala, sushumna, etc.)” - so subtle body yoga.
I would expect non-tantric practices to be things outside of this range, say conventional meditation and prayers, rituals and recitations of a basic, open sort which are available to all.

Perhaps there is no distinction in Shaivism and they build a totality but I would expect to find the existence of some practices within Shavite tantra which require initiation from a guru and are transmitted in this way only.

That, however, is pure speculation.

Namaste

[sarabhanga]

Namaste SriVijaya,

The fundamental difference is philosophical; and in practice, advaitavAda is more introspective, while dvaitavAda is more extroverted. So there is a fundamental difference between internal and external means, but this is mixed with different perspectives, and there are internal and external methods aiming for advaita, along with internal and external methods assuming a dvaita context.

It seems that you understand “tantra” as dealing more with the internal mechanism of yoga, and thus “non-tantra” as dealing more with the external methods and devices. But you exclude “conventional meditation” from the definition of tantra, so I can only assume that this “meditation” is referring to darshanam or concentration on an external object, as opposed to introspection, abstraction, and concentration without external support (which must then be “tantra”).

And orthodox shaiva practice assumes that dIkshA is required for all sAdhanA (including mantrasAdhanA), with all dharma depending on the blessings of guru.

:headscratch:

[Nuno Matos]

Namaste Sarabhanga Giri

" And orthodox shaiva practice assumes that dIkshA is required for all sAdhanA (including mantrasAdhanA), with all dharma depending on the blessings of guru. "

On the subject of dIksha (there are of three types: informal, formal and paranormal ) you say it is required for all sAdhana. And I would like to ask if that is so when someone is initiated by lord Shiva himself or some other devatta guru i.e. natural self discovery with the consequent expansion of knowledge ? That would be true Dharma don't you think so? No bounds are created and the avadhuta in it´s brilliance shines on free and detached.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Nuno,

I am not sure of what you mean by “paranormal dIkshA” (?)

dIkshA is “preparation or consecration for a religious observance, undertaking the observance, and the observance itself”.

And dIkshA is thus “initiation, dedication, devotion, complete resignation or restriction, or exclusive occupation”.

All sAdhanA requires dIkshA, and sAdhanA should be all of the above.

sAdhanA is “guiding well, leading straight to the goal, furthering, procuring, obtaining, conjuring, denoting, or designating”, and sAdhanA is “effective, efficient, productive, or expressive”.

sAdhanA comprises the initiation, the performance, and the accomplishment. And there should be certainty at every stage.

Certainty comes by initiation, with the instruction and example of one who has demontrated proof of the means, and with the sacred promise that is confirmed. And there should be certain dedication and complete resignation to the practice and its perfection. And in completion, the proof is in the pudding and no doubt remains.

Anyone truly having dIkshA directly from shiva has luckily found the initiation and the accomplishment all at once, and the only sAdhanA remaining is continuous devotion or meditation, leading finally to absolute samAdhi.

Self-discovery of a proven sAdhanA implies that the goal has already been attained, so no further sAdhanA is required. And for one who has attained the ultimate aim of advaita, there is no question of dharma vs adharma in the singular vortex of dharmAdharma.

An avadhUta is a perfect saMnyAsin, and saMnyAsa requires dIkshA, and the full vocation of saMnyAsa is saMskAra, sAdhanA, and samAdhi. And the perfected avadhUta dwells always in samAdhi.

dIkshA, sAdhanA, saMskAra, and saMnyAsa, are all cognate terms, with each one implying all of the others. And the avadhUta is their consummation, as the veritable conclusion of all dharma.

[Nuno Matos]

Namaste Sarabhanga Giri

Thank you for the reply, it was humbly read and appreciated.

" I am not sure of what you mean by “paranormal dIkshA” (?)"

I mean dIkshA trough the medium of sidhi; the example of telepathy would be more appropriated i.e. mental projection of a sacred formula or a particular sadhana.
I remember some years ago a yogi talking about how Patanjali rishi come to him in a dream and instructed him in the art of raja yoga, revealing to him all the secrets of the asthanga sadhana, after long years of penance.

[srivijaya]

Namaste SriVijaya,
It seems that you understand “tantra” as dealing more with the internal mechanism of yoga, and thus “non-tantra” as dealing more with the external methods and devices. But you exclude “conventional meditation” from the definition of tantra, so I can only assume that this “meditation” is referring to darshanam or concentration on an external object, as opposed to introspection, abstraction, and concentration without external support (which must then be “tantra”).

And orthodox shaiva practice assumes that dIkshA is required for all sAdhanA (including mantrasAdhanA), with all dharma depending on the blessings of guru.

Namaste sarabhanga,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, my understanding of tantra is that it deals with "the internal mechanism of yoga" but not exclusively. "Conventional meditation" exists within it too. It is just that "internal mechanisms" are available to those initiated into the system which are otherwise not publicly taught. Whilst Kundalini, chakras and so on are very much public property these days, an initiation confers blessings upon the disciple and his subsequent status gives him access to teachings which are otherwise secret.

This does not mean that a tantrika is unable to use other means but that the entire path is laid out within a tantra and the teachings that accompany it, so it becomes a fast and comprehensive method to reach the goal.

That has been my understanding of it thus far but I have 'issues', myself, with this definition. Hence my enquiry here.

I would dearly love to know what considerations were behind the following remark by Arjuna on the "Bhairava thread"

What is essential for the proper understanding and application of the most sacred Tantric doctrine is the rasa-darshana, meaning “mystical vision through feeling”. If Tantra is taken to be mere technical ritual (be it radical or conventional) it turns to be useless as well as if it is taken as a dry theory – like what had mostly happened with Kashmir shaivism and partly with Srividya.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1352&page=3

I have a gut feeling that I would completely agree with this, as it has been my experience with Vajrayana.

Namaste

[Arjuna]

All liberating methods can be classified into two groups, prakriyas: Tantra and Kula. Tantra includes Anava-, Shakta- and Shambhava-upayas, while Kula is the supreme mystery which alone provides the ultimate realisation (Kauliki-siddhi).
What is usually understood by chakras etc. yoga stuff is just Anava-upaya. Mantra-vidya and practice of awareness is Shakta-, while Atma-vichara is Shambhava. It may be said that focus on the circle (wheel of Consciousness, samvichchakra) is Shakta and focus in the center is Shambhava. Kula embraces all and is beyond and secret.

The essential point in Shaiva methods of meditation is notion of Spanda-nature of Consciousness and stress on Lord's grace, anugraha or shaktipAta. It's approach is very different from that of Patanjali and even incompatible.

[srivijaya]

It may be said that focus on the circle (wheel of Consciousness, samvichchakra) is Shakta and focus in the center is Shambhava. Kula embraces all and is beyond and secret.

Hi Arjuna,
This is of great interest to me due to the tantirc system I adopted within Tibetan Buddhism. It is based upon this. The wheel, or circle of bliss is one name for my yidam.
The mandala, in any case, was clearly adopted from the Shaivites and adapted for Buddhist purposes. The completion stage teachings which accompany it are, however, of the technical yoga kind and not of the kind to which you refer, which makes me wonder why that is.

Namaste

[Arjuna]

Hi Arjuna,
This is of great interest to me due to the tantirc system I adopted within Tibetan Buddhism. It is based upon this. The wheel, or circle of bliss is one name for my yidam.
The mandala, in any case, was clearly adopted from the Shaivites and adapted for Buddhist purposes. The completion stage teachings which accompany it are, however, of the technical yoga kind and not of the kind to which you refer, which makes me wonder why that is.

Namaste

Stage of completion in Vajrayana is similar to Vamachara sadhana in Hindu tantra. It requires karma-mudra, physical partner. Though i am not an expert in technical details of Buddhist tantra, general pattern is the same with Shaiva one. The whole of Buddhist shadanga-yoga was borrowed from Shaivism and Upanishads.

[srivijaya]

Stage of completion in Vajrayana is similar to Vamachara sadhana in Hindu tantra. It requires karma-mudra, physical partner. Though i am not an expert in technical details of Buddhist tantra, general pattern is the same with Shaiva one. The whole of Buddhist shadanga-yoga was borrowed from Shaivism and Upanishads.

Hi Arjuna,
Buddhist consort practice is shrouded in secrecy which when you consider the wide availability of empowerments in the West, is rather strange.
I think, in truth, few people ever engage in this as it requires that both partners are empowered and given special instructions by the guru. These conditions are difficult to meet.

Add to that the wide misconceptions surrounding it and there's no wonder it is kept secret. In the West it tends to be associated with a hippy 'free-love' lifestyle where inhibitions are discouraged etc. whereas I gather that in India tantra is considered little more than black magic and evil doing.

Namaste

[Arjuna]

Hi Arjuna,
Buddhist consort practice is shrouded in secrecy which when you consider the wide availability of empowerments in the West, is rather strange.
I think, in truth, few people ever engage in this as it requires that both partners are empowered and given special instructions by the guru. These conditions are difficult to meet.

As far as i understand, tibetan lamas are simply unwilling to give the real stuff to seekers and feed them with "empowerments", which are analogous to upadeshas and not dikshas/abhishekas. I know of non western buddhists who have got one of the abhishekas of Vajrayana Tantras (guhya- or prajna-).
At the first sight it seems tibetan tantra is more accessible and spread than Hindu. But in fact though Hindu tantric masters are less advertised, if one finds them they usually are willing to share unlike the tibetans.

[srivijaya]

Hi Arjuna,
I guess most disciples are in the position of trying to implement the instructions they have been provided with and are not aware if there is any more information which they require.

They are usually told that they have everything they need.

Namaste