HDF State of Affairs

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

Skhandelwal writes,

Don't be disappointed Rishi for being bullied...it is just that on this forum from his post at http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=19763&postcount=14 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=19763&postcount=14)

While I was going to leave this, that would be for someone who does not care. My posting is the concern skhandelwal points out to Rishi. Is this how we wish to be perceived on HDF? And how we care to proceed? I for one do not.

At times one gets passionate about a position and POV, yet is there a point where the notion of being bullied steps in? This is how it is coming across whether in truth or perceived. This seems to me unattractive and in fact limits ones comments, and response by the HDF community overall.

Many on this site work contientiously to offer the best thinking or ideas we can on Sanatana Dharma, doing the best we can. I find no one standing up and saying I know this mighty Being¹ (Purusha), then becoming the guiding light with authority of this forum.

We are still all students of life as far as I can tell. By this, we as a group look to uncover the most we can from the shastras ( scriptures). Some are more advanced then others, some not. This is ok, as my teacher says, the teacher gains more then the student; when something has to be explained, it's learning twice for the teacher. If just one new idea comes in, an ahhh-ha! for the reader, some insight, then HDF is evolving. But bullying is a sorry state of affairs.

I am in hopes this is just a passing phase and we can improve ourselves over time and insure all are open to comment w/o feeling bullied or spanked.


1. Svetasvatara Upanishad (valli 3 sloka 8)- the risi is svetasvatara and this is his acknowledgement of being established in Brahman.

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

Perhaps the conclusion of Skhandelwal's quote should also be noted.


you have to be careful not to claim something you cannot backup.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

Courage is fire, and bullying is smoke - Benjamin Disraeli

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~



While I was going to leave this, that would be for someone who does not care.
We are still all students of life as far as I can tell. By this, we as a group look to uncover the most we can from the shastras ( scriptures).


Namaste,

One may ask 'Whats the deal? What is yajvan putting his attention on this?'.

Folks, in one word... ahiṁsā - not injuring anything , harmlessness, in all means and all manners. Bullying is incongruent with ahiṁsā which is part of yama and niyama¹.

As one advances in the cultivation of virtues, one abstains from acts of injury to others due to mis-apprehension or ignorance (of their actions).

Bottom line: Bullying is being captured by ones own ignorance and brings mis-fortune to the giver and the receiver. How so? The Bully stays locked in ignorance and fuels the ego, and the receiver experiences grief.

pranams,


1. References: Yoga Darsana of Patanjali. Sadhana Pada, sutra 29 and 30.

[satay]

namaskar!

I concur with Yajvan on this. If new users are getting the impression that on HDF 'bullying' is fostered, that goes against the basic theme and purpose of HDF which is 'positive presentation of the Hindu Dharma'.

(question to self)
How are we meeting the 'positive presentation of the Hindu Dharma' requirement by being a bully?

:o
From our FAQ

Hindu Dharma Forums is an open forum for constructive discussion on all aspects of Indian culture and traditions and the positive presentation of Sanatana Dharma (the Eternal Religion, known as Hinduism or simply as Dharma, the spiritual Duty or universal Law).

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

Bully is an old (16th century) term of endearment, as “sweetheart”, from the Dutch boel “lover or brother”. At first it denoted a “fine fellow”, but (by confusion with “bull”) it also came to mean “blusterer” and then “harasser of the weak” (17th century). From “lover”, the meaning degenerated to “protector of a prostitute”, and thus “ruffian”.

Bully means “worthy, jolly, or admirable”, as in the 19th century slang expression “bully for you!”.




in one word ... ahiṁsā - not injuring anything

ahiMsAsatyAsthe is more appropriate ~ “standing firm in non-injury and truth”.

Perhaps “pimping for truth” could be seen as “harassing the weak”, but (for example) any comment on this forum should be open to question and further discussion when it apparently disagrees with established truth. I would have assumed that a “positive presentation of Hindu Dharma” remains always an accurate presentation, and not merely a jolly presentation.

[Eastern Mind]

I used to kind of feel bullied, until I realised that the real problem is my own lack of knowledge of Sanskrit not to mention scripture, so I always just avoid those kinds of discussions, as I don't feel my contributions in modern American English are of any value in that particular discussion. I contribute when its something I know something about, or at least think I do. My training was different than the classical methods, (i.e. no Sanskrit other than the very basic words like ahimsa, and karma, and a definite no-no to reading a lot of scripture, especially when its from a different sect/viewpoint than your own chosen path) but it works for me. If someone feels my bhakti or inner experiences I've had or understanding is inferior to theirs, then that's their problem, not mine. Some of the problem with bullying is actually the sense of being bulllied by the victim, and believe me, being a school teacher, I have dealt with countless cases, both ways. My only backup or proof of something I say comes from direct personal experience with the subject matter at hand. So I think part of the 'problem' is perception. I'm not offended by Sarabhanga's knowledge of Sanskrit. I don't believe it's condescending to share information from another level. So my advice would only be to use wisdom in choosing which threads you want to get into. Aum Namasivaya

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

I would prefer that nobody felt excluded or bullied, and I apologize if my sometimes abrupt nature and occasional exclamation marks and bold print have offended some members. My devatA is shrI dattAtreya mahArAja, but as a sAdhaka my personal tendencies are perhaps more like RSi durvAsa. :o

My own comments are always open for discussion, and some responses to my remarks have been quite vehement and personally insulting. But I have certainly intended no personal insult in any recent discussions, always preferring only to consider the matter under discussion.

Any suggestion (for example) that the desire for a cookie (or whatever else) can arise in the sAdhaka’s mind without disturbing the perfect one-pointed focus of saMyama deserves clarification. And any suggestion that sAdhana is done in ignorance seems not only incorrect but verging on offensive to any true sAdhaka, and such a remark should also not remain without clarification.

[satay]

namaskar,
And I might have bullied many with my moderation. That was for sure not my intent. The intent is always to present a place where everyone is welcomed to comment and discuss. If we can do this in a positive, sharing environment that can only be good for 'presentation of dharma' on the net, where anti hindu sites are thousands.

I truly think that most that come here have open mind and the will to learn yet my own personal experiences with members of certain religions always manage to bring the worst in me when dealing with them. For that my sincere apologies to those who have been hurt by my preceived bullying behaviour.

Sincerely.

[sm78]

Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste,

One may ask 'Whats the deal? What is yajvan putting his attention on this?'.

Folks, in one word... ahiṁsā - not injuring anything , harmlessness, in all means and all manners. Bullying is incongruent with ahiṁsā which is part of yama and niyama¹.

As one advances in the cultivation of virtues, one abstains from acts of injury to others due to mis-apprehension or ignorance (of their actions).

Bottom line: Bullying is being captured by ones own ignorance and brings mis-fortune to the giver and the receiver. How so? The Bully stays locked in ignorance and fuels the ego, and the receiver experiences grief.

pranams,


1. References: Yoga Darsana of Patanjali. Sadhana Pada, sutra 29 and 30.

ahimsha is truly meaningful only in the context of satyam and as such is not just non-killing or non-harming, but upholding satyam. because greatest harm/hurt is caused by upholding asat. veiwed as such, it is a divine endowment/gift (refer gita) and not just a practice of restraint (yama). (however i am not undermining ahimsha as a limb of yama, but one needs to take such literal interpretation with pinch of salt just like most things in this world.)

In this present context of discussion forum, if the "bully" is "ripping away" an argument from a poster and this causes some angst for the poster, it does not become himsha ~ given the "bully's" intent is only to put forth the truth. as long tarka is not personal attack i don't see an issue. The poster may still feel hurt. One needs to which is more important??
1. make a poster feel good about his/her post.
2. side for the correct/truth

2 often hurts the ignorant and the asura, 1 on the other hand MAY "hurt" the soul.

[atanu]

Don't be disappointed Rishi for being bullied...it is just that on this forum, the smartest hindus;) get together and have discusions, so you have to be careful not to claim something you cannot totally backup.


Don't be disappointed Rishi for being bullied...it is just that on this forum

Namaste All,

The first is the full quote and the second is the part in discussion. I feel that it is not proper to discuss on part quotes and draw conclusions. More so when the purport of the part is different from the full. It will be bad service to khandelwal as well as for the truth itself.

I feel SM is correct that coated sugar may hide a bitter pill whereas stating the facts is eventually good. Sarabhanga's knowledge of sanskrit is an asset which we should all benefit from. There is no mortal who has not one weakness or other. Some may like to teach (feeling superior), some to write poetry, some to exhibit logical and scriptural knowledge. We are all driven by some motivation and till the drive becomes ONE -- to attain Turya alone, there will be smoke with the fire.

(Vedas say that when a fire is kindled first, it is Rudra (full of smoke and no fire almost), then through Varuna, Indra, Mitra, Vishnu, the fire becomes pure and pure. Yet it is ONE Rudra alone).

I feel happy that the occassional generation of heat is good prognosis for the patient. Everyone has to gain momentum towards that one goal, therefore furious emmission of smoke is often called for and planned by God (my view). A true Sadhaka gets what he needs most, though what is given may appear to be brick bats or flowers.

Om.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

ahimsha is truly meaningful only in the context of satyam and as such is not just non-killing or non-harming, but upholding satyam.

Namste singhi (et.al)

Perhaps what you say is true as you always offer clear vision... yet are we not civil beings too? Are we not all in the same pursuit of this truth, or satyam? For me the Rig Ved 10th Mandala, 12.40, rishi is Samvanana and Agni is devata, captures the notion best:

Meet together, talk together, let your minds apprehend alike; in like manner as the ancient gods concurring accepted their portions at the sacrifice.

Common be the prayer of these assembled worshippers, common be the acquirement, common the purpose, associated by the desire. I repeat for you a common prayer, I offer for you with a common oblation;

Common be your intention, common be the wishes of your hearts, common be your thoughts, So that there may be thorough union among you.

pranams

[Nuno Matos]

And any suggestion that sAdhana is done in ignorance seems not only incorrect but verging on offensive to any true sAdhaka, and such a remark should also not remain without clarification.

Namaste Sarabhanga Giri,


" Te vyakta-shuksmA gunAtmAnah "

Propriety´s are manifested or hidden and they are found in the gunas.

Yoga Sutra, chpt III. XIII.



I had never made the suggestion that sAdhana is made in ignorance but by ignoring, which is quite different from saying by forgiveness which in turn is found in superiority and so in dvaita. As you said every thing comes quite clear with diksha as there are no superposition's in the face of yama. Only nara all in one shining on it´s openness.
My Dear friend you are right you cant take nara out of the world!


Hari om

[sarabhanga]

Namaste dear Nuno,

I certainly did not think that you had made the suggestion that sAdhana is done in ignorance. There seems to have been some confusion. I was referring to comments made by Yajvan.

[atanu]

Hari Om
~~~~~
Meet together, talk together, let your minds apprehend alike; in like manner as the ancient gods concurring accepted their portions at the sacrifice.

Common be the prayer of these assembled worshippers, common be the acquirement, common the purpose, associated by the desire. I repeat for you a common prayer, I offer for you with a common oblation;

Common be your intention, common be the wishes of your hearts, common be your thoughts, So that there may be thorough union among you.

pranams

Namaste yajvan Ji,

Beautiful.

Meet together, talk together, let your minds apprehend alike; in like manner as the ancient gods concurring accepted their portions at the sacrifice.

Common be the prayer of these assembled worshippers, common be the acquirement, common the purpose, associated by the desire. I repeat for you a common prayer, I offer for you with a common oblation;

Common be your intention, common be the wishes of your hearts, common be your thoughts, So that there may be thorough union among you.
---------------------

Let all thoughts be united on Him.


Om