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yajvan
17 January 2008, 07:53 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste,

Dayananda Saraswati ( 1824 to 1883) became a samnyasin in the Saraswati Dandi order in 1848. He also founded Arya samaji. With this,
Arya samaji established 10 principles. You can see them at this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_Arya_Samaj

My question to HDF members: Are any associated with Dayananda Saraswati and his Arya samaji today? That is , part of the parampara , teaching, or lineage? Can any one talk of him (knowledgeably)a bit more? One source I have been using is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj .
Are the 10 principles still in place and have not deviated? And what of the sadhana? What does it compose of?

I just found him rather interesting. I am sure saidevo is aware of him as there is a tight connection of Arya Samaj and the Theosophical Society.
This in turn leads to Helena Blavatsky, co-founder of the Theosophical Society. I do understand from what I read there was some discord between the two groups but only speak from text written and not personal knowledge.


pranams

sarabhanga
17 January 2008, 09:42 PM
Namaste Yajvan,

Arya samAja is based on the fundamental teachings of veda, which are summarized in ten basic principles:

God is the efficient cause of all true knowledge and all that is known through knowledge.

God is existent, intelligent and blissful. He is formless, omniscient, just, merciful, unborn, endless, unchangeable, beginning-less, unequalled, the support of all, the master of all, omnipresent, immanent, un-aging, immortal, fearless, eternal and holy, and the maker of all. He alone is worthy of being worshiped.

The vedAs are the scriptures of all true knowledge. It is the paramount duty of all AryAs to read them, teach them, recite them, and to hear them being read.

One should always be ready to accept truth and to renounce untruth.

All acts should be performed in accordance with dharma ~ that is, after deliberating what is right and wrong.

The prime object of the Arya samAja is to do good in the world, that is, to promote physical, spiritual and social good of everyone.

Our conduct towards all should be guided by love, righteousness and justice.

We should dispel avidyA and promote vidyA.

No one should be content with promoting his/her good only; on the contrary, one should look for his/her good in promoting the good of all.

One should regard oneself under restriction to follow the rules of society calculated to promote the well being of all, while in following the rules of individual welfare all should be free.

And this is simply an explanation of the implications of the ancient vow of “ahiMsAsatyAsthe”, which has always been at the heart of sanAtana dharma ~ indeed, it is this sacred promise alone that makes one Arya.

sarabhanga
17 January 2008, 10:49 PM
ahiMsAsatyAsthe ~ “Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life”

soham3
23 January 2008, 04:52 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


I just found him rather interesting.

pranams

He is one of the greatest sons that India has given birth to. He deprecated avataravaad, idolatry and so many other evil practices that had taken root in India. His work 'Satyarth Prakash' is an epoch-making book.

Sahasranama
11 May 2010, 08:52 AM
I am not am not affiliated with the Arya Samaj. I did have a Hindi/Sanskriet teacher who was an Arya Samaja missionary and an Arya Samaj priest. A big part of Arya Samaja missionary activities consist of spreading the word against idolatry, avataravada, caste system, polytheism.


He is one of the greatest sons that India has given birth to. He deprecated avataravaad, idolatry and so many other evil practices that had taken root in India. His work 'Satyarth Prakash' is an epoch-making book.I have a lot of respect for most Hindu sampradayas. My main problem with the Arya Samaja is their lack of respect for anything that is so called "unvedic" according to them. They call the various forms of worship in the sanatan dharma idolatry while they do not consider their own forms of woship as such. In this regard, the Arya Samaj is very dogmatic.

The main forms of worship in Arya Samaj are meditation, mantra chanting and agnihotra. They argue that agnihotra is not idolatry, because they are not worshipping the fire, they are only purifying the air with medicinal herbs and the vibrations of mantras obeying the word of the vedas. They are very uniform in their rituals which consist mostly of Sandhya-Agnihotra, adapted by swami Dayananda. Rituals that were omitted from Sandhya are tarpana, arghya dana, gotra abhivandana, avahana and upasthana. Swami Dayananda also changed the nyasa replacing the names of Vishnu with mantras that do not appear anywhere in the scriptures.The purpose of this was to remove the influence of the puranas and itihasas from the ritual.

The arya samaja has published edited versions of the Ramayana and Mahabharata, saying that the versions available are interpolated. I do not argue that there are interpolations in these texts, but there is no way the Arya Samaja can pinpoint the exact verses that were interpolations. They do this only according to their own conviction.

I see a remarkable similarity between the Arya Samaja and the Christian missionaries. This could be due the fact that Swami Dayananda was influenced by the Brahmo Samaj and the theosophic society.

sambya
11 May 2010, 09:59 AM
im am not very aqquainted with arya samaj , but i have met with a person from samaj over internet who shouts against idol worship . hmmmm...... no wonder i get irritated at this .

but i guess all these was needed at a time when arya samaj was concieved . nothing happens without the will of the lord . i also believe that if society needs a change or a system it will do so on its won accord . that makes me keep quiet .

thankfully they have not been very popular in india though !! hindus love their murtis far too much than arya samaj . hehe

isavasya
11 May 2010, 11:15 PM
namaste sambaya, sahasranama and others.

True even I get irritated when arya samajis speak against Idol worship. I cant understand, what can be wrong about idol worship, and is other forms of worship free from idol worship? I dont think so. All religions have to do it in one form or other.


but i guess all these was needed at a time when arya samaj was concieved . nothing happens without the will of the lord . i also believe that if society needs a change or a system it will do so on its won accord . that makes me keep quiet .

thankfully they have not been very popular in india though !! hindus love their murtis far too much than arya samaj . hehe

Arya samaj has made a very big contribution to modern hinduism and in reforming and protecting hinduism, irrespective of their popularity. Many of arya samajis got murdered or suffered untimely deaths; that's the reason arya samaj has lost popularity now. Remember arya samaj/ maharshi dayanand saraswati is the only one Indian of modern age who wrote a bhasya on veda samhita.In spite of the the fact that other traditions have existed for over 500 years, majority of them dont even have a veda bhasya, they only rely on vedanta and smriti alone, giving idiotic reasons that veda is useless and un-understandable in kaliyuga. I also find many traditionalists having a very negative view on arya samaj, at many times these are the same people who will put arya samaj's translation of rituals such as ashwamedha yagna, when a mulla or a xian will put forward dubious commentaries of such rituals as has been given by Sayana, madhwa vidyaranya,mahidhara, and other medieval commentators. You are right to say arya samaj was demand of the time, yes westerners had begun to degrade vedas and hurt the self respect of Hindus, its arya samaj which exposed the crooked westerners and silenced them too a great extent. Maharshi dayanand was the first soil of son who exposed the Islamists and xians Read his refutation of Islam and xianity, what a brave soul he must have been to write that.

As far as interpolations are concerned, sahasranama ji thinks there are none, I believe many purans were written till 12-13th century, one puran even proves shankara acharya as a demon manimanta. Wasn't it interpolation by shankara's rivals ? Also I like ramayana , but there are some interpolations or additions in valmiki ramayana for sure. Sahasranama ji mentioned about arya samaj not giving much importance to unvedic texts, yes thats a wrong thing that it does, but I can give some reasons for that. Well arya samaj cited proofs and quotes from veda itself to prove veda belongs to each and every one, even women have equal right to it, on the other hand, other schools used medieval works like some smriti/purans to prove that veda belongs to selected elite and simply barred it for others, so it's quite natural arya samaj has hit hard against those texts.

How ever I agree arya samaj should not be against idol worship or against other sects, I myself dont have anything to do with arya samaj, but I do respect it's contribution in social reformation,widow remarriage and in taking hinduism to commoners. During suddhi movement, it prevented many hindus from getting forcefully or cunningly converted to abrahmaic religions. Even today when our country is suffering from crooked Islamists and missionaries, we need a lion like maharshi dayanand.

Sahasranama
12 May 2010, 02:57 AM
double post

Sahasranama
12 May 2010, 03:00 AM
There is definitely a lot of good in the Arya Samaja's social agenda and I appreciate the fact that Swami Dayananda wrote a bhashya on the vedas. I have read Mahidhara and Uvatas commentary on the Ashvamedha Yajna and it was very shocking to read.


As far as interpolations are concerned, sahasranama ji thinks there are none, I believe many purans were written till 12-13th century, one puran even proves shankara acharya as a demon manimanta.Wasn't it interpolation by shankara's rivals ?I don't know specifically which text you are talking about, but if that's true then I think it was definitely an interpolation or a later text.

I believe the most important puranas are more ancient than 12-13 century. I don't think the original puranas of veda vyasa are still intact like the vedas which have been carefully conserved in gurukulas. The puranas were mostly handed down through lectures and story telling before they were written down. Certain parts were conserved more carefully than others. Still they do describe a lot of important aspects of Hinduism.

I don't have any problem with Arya Samajis not giving any importance whatsoever to the puranic literature. What I was saying is that I didn't like their contempt for any ritual or practice that's so called "unvedic." Regardless of the good aspects, they fundamentally preach against it for the sole reason that it wasn't mentioned in the vedas. They are throwing out the baby with the bathwather.


In spite of the the fact that other traditions have existed for over 500 years, majority of them dont even have a veda bhasya, they only rely on vedanta and smriti alone, giving idiotic reasons that veda is useless and un-understandable in kaliyuga.
I have only heard this argument from isckonites.

isavasya
03 June 2010, 03:27 PM
namaste sahasranama ji,



I don't have any problem with Arya Samajis not giving any importance whatsoever to the puranic literature. What I was saying is that I didn't like their contempt for any ritual or practice that's so called "unvedic." Regardless of the good aspects, they fundamentally preach against it for the sole reason that it wasn't mentioned in the vedas. They are throwing out the baby with the bathwather.


Yes that's right, arya samaj shows narrow mentality in not accepting good things which are taught in texts apart from vedas.








I don't know specifically which text you are talking about, but if that's true then I think it was definitely an interpolation or a later text.



According to Garuda Purana:

maNimAnnAma daityastu shaN^karAkhyo bhaviShyati |
sarveShAM saN^karaM yastu kariShyati na saMshayaH ||
tena shaN^karanAmA.asau bhaviShyati khageshvara |
dharmAn.h bhAgavatAn.h sarvAn.h vinashyati sarvathA ||

A Demon by name maNimAn will come into being as Shankara, who will,
no doubt, pollute everything. This is why, O King of birds (Garuda), his
name will be Shankara; he will pollute and destroy all BhAgavata Dharmas.

In fact isckonites and some other vaishnavas spread this non-sense with a great missionary zeal. Our friend sri Krsna Das wrote a few days ago in our HDF forum in the thread Re: LORd SIVA : A Gaudiya Vaisnava Perspective


Q: Who propagates the cheating and Asurik philosophies like mAyAvAd?
A: Lord Rudra-Siva appears in the form of Sankracarya in Kali-Yuga to propagate this philosophy to athiests and Asuras .

In fact interpolation is not only till purans, Some sects have produced differnt versions of upanishads too, the great sadyojata mantra from mahanarayana upanishad is eliminated by certain sects. And let me tell you, it's not that eliminating one section of mahanrayana upanishad is that much big, the real thing is this leads to people following a false religion. Following false religion is even more dangerous than not following the religion.



I believe the most important puranas are more ancient than 12-13 century. I don't think the original puranas of veda vyasa are still intact like the vedas which have been carefully conserved in gurukulas. The puranas were mostly handed down through lectures and story telling before they were written down. Certain parts were conserved more carefully than others. Still they do describe a lot of important aspects of Hinduism.




That's true, there are many good things in purans :), but one should have discretion to understand what is real and unreal, that discretion can only come if we apply logic, blind faith to scriptures can be very lethal for the religion on the whole, I believe purans had a great role in weakening Hinduism. You said you dont believe that mahabharata and ramayana are interpolated, well they have definitely been interpolated by people who had some vested interests in doing so. Only reading full texts can tell you, in one section of mahabharata bhishma pitamah speaks so horribly about whole of women kind, that I can't imagine it is same person who sang the vishnu sashasranama. The fact is it is not he who speaks in that verse, but some crazy lunactic who did interpolate it. I believe vayu puranam to be oldest puran and padma and garuda puran to be most interpolated. Just my opinion.

Arya samaj does well in exposing many lies of purans and unvedic texts, and that's why it empowers Hindu society on the whole (it already did much between 1875-1925), but it is against things like worship of god in form of lord vishnu or shiva and some other things like idol worship, well this is the negative aspect of arya samaj, but overall arya samaj and maharshi dayanand ji has given a whole new perspective to hindu society, which is great thing for Hinduism.






I have only heard this argument from isckonites.


From my personal experience, some others schools (traditionalists) do it as well. That is from my personal discussions in some other forums.

Sahasranama
03 June 2010, 03:50 PM
Thank you for your reply.

I also believe that the mahabharata and the ramayana have interpolations. But in the arya samaj versions they removed a lot of verses, and I just don't think that they are qualified to say which verses were interpolations and which were original. But indeed, it's a good thing to look critically at the texts and study old manuscripts, make comparisons and use logic to see what parts are not authentic.

My negative view on the Arya Samaj mostly stems from the activist that I have met. They write pamphlets in and booklets in Hindi for distribution. I got one book that was a conversation between a seeker and an Arya Samaj Pandit where the Pandit made fun of idol worship, belief in Ganesha, Shiva, Durga and in the avatars and called the people who belief in such things, idiots.

But on the other hand I do have respect for the Arya Samaja. I have learned a lot from an Arya Samaj pandit. He gave Hindi and Sanskrit lessons, he was a very nice and learned man. I also think the bhashya of Swami Dayananda is a great work and has an important place for anyone studying the vedas.


In fact interpolation is not only till purans, Some sects have produced differnt versions of upanishads too, the great sadyojata mantra from mahanarayana upanishad is eliminated by certain sects. And let me tell you, it's not that eliminating one section of mahanrayana upanishad is that much big, the real thing is this leads to people following a false religion. Following false religion is even more dangerous than not following the religion.It's really unfortunate that people feel the need to manipulate the shashtras. We definitely have to guard against this. This behavior, to alterate the shastra, is listed as sinful in the markandeya purana.

R Gitananda
20 October 2011, 11:52 AM
Namaste


...
My negative view on the Arya Samaj mostly stems from the activist that I have met. They write pamphlets in and booklets in Hindi for distribution. I got one book that was a conversation between a seeker and an Arya Samaj Pandit where the Pandit made fun of idol worship, belief in Ganesha, Shiva, Durga and in the avatars and called the people who belief in such things, idiots. ...

The polemic against murti puja ("idol worship") is very similar to
the preaching of Moses (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020:4-5&version=NIV) and to Zoroaster before him.
I don't see it as a good thing to denigrate devotees of any deity.

Any scripture can actually be harmful if it is used as a bludgeon
to knock people over the head for not getting it "right" (note how
the Taliban uses the Koran as opposed to how it is used in Turkey).

Everyone should be able to make up their own mind as to which
scriptures they will hold sacred and how closely they want to
follow them - if at all. This broad-minded and tolerant nature
of most Hindus is what IMO separates them from Abrahamic
fundamentalists and Zoroastrians who claim to know how to
please the "jealous God".

The Vedas are subject to interpretation and one can always
find some part of the Veda that is conveniently ignored by
even it's most ardent advocates. Sri Krushna claimed to know
the Vedas and I trust his interpretation over that of the Arya Samaj.

Hari Aum Shanti

shian
21 October 2011, 02:54 AM
Vanakkam,

i just know of this kind sect in Hinduism
i dont care whatever method they use to TRUTH
but i only dont agree with their view of other sect is evil
(i also even read book from one sect who said peoples who said God is formless is evil, and even more bad than evil), this kind of harted teaching i cant receive.

Kumar_Das
21 October 2011, 10:09 AM
Well there are positive and negative things to say about Swami Dayanada's words and works.

One thing I find odd though is his adamance against the Puranas and the Itihasas.

Firstly I don't know how on earth anyone claiming to have ardent adherence of Vedic religion and be a pure Monotheist can ever discard and denounce the Gita.

Its true some of the verses of the Vedas lay out the basic framework for Monotheistic theology. But the Gita describes how one should relate to God and also does provide verses that builds up more on Monotheistic theology.

The Gita is the simplest, most eloquent and highly comprehensive text I've ever read on Monotheism and how a Monotheist should relate to God.

PARAM
21 October 2011, 12:57 PM
I am not 100% related to the teachings of Arya Samaj but I know many Arya Samajis, teachings of Arya Samaj are very strict and wisely made. Arya Samaj is responsible to start freedom movement in India. Sanskrit, Vedas, Yajna etc all get their popularity back because of the Arya Samaj. Conversion in Hinduism and Cow protection movement was made and anti Christian mission was started in the front of Christian rulers.

I read anti Arya Samaj and Anti Isckon gossips in different Hindu websites, it is not good to allow such conversions, I never had any problem with Arya Samajis and Isckon anywhere in real life.

shian
21 October 2011, 06:20 PM
If we want others to understand the greatness of our Lord and then receive the truth (who we believe), first we must make them love us, peoples see the love and peace on us. So we can lead them to Lord.

BUT

If in the first, we said others is EVIL, others is DEVIL, others is more bad than EVIL etc only because they not yet understand our DHARMA,
So the other will dont like us, they will see that our teachings is the arrogance and teachings to hurt others and there is no peace. So they will separate and more far from our DHARMA. And this hurt make them cant understand our Lord. So , acctually, who make others far from Dharma ? Who make others cant receive our Lord ? Not others , but us. We make others more far and far from our believe, because that kind of harted. So dont blame others when they cant receive our believe because we hurt them.

anisha_astrologer
21 October 2011, 11:51 PM
Dayanand Saraswati was a social reformer who just wanted to free our society from social evils and pretty much succeeded also. there were practices which he believed was a hindrance in the development of society like idol worship. it may be that now the advocates of aarya samaj use harsh words and ridicule others. the best thing is to learn what was dayanand saraswati's motive and not the means because his motives were noble and similar motives can help to advance society.:)

Believer
22 October 2011, 09:14 AM
Ramblings on an overcast, gloomy Fall Saturday morning......

Namaste,

Arya Samaj came into being to unite Hindus and be a counter force to the Xitian missionaries in the North. Swami Dayanand did not have any followers in his native state of Gujrat but found Punjabis to be accepting of what he had to say. It was a aapatkaleen (times of calamity) movement which wanted to uplift the status of women, remove caste system and superstitions from the minds of Hindus and free them from intricate rituals by simplifying the yagna and letting common man (read non-brahmins) be able to officiate at the yagna. They were the first and only ones at the time to introduce an official ceremony for shuddhi - 'cleansing' for reconversion of Xitian and muslims - to bring them back to the Hindu fold. Even today, they are the only ones who periodically go around to dalit villages and wash their feet in a symbolic gesture and ask for forgiveness for the non-dalit HIndus having treated them badly in the past. Propagating Sanskrit language, advocating cow protection, elevating the status of women and freeing the society of the bonds of caste/creed are still their major objectives. With all the good that they stand for and the nurturing they provided me during part of my life, I have a hard time being negative about them, even though they totally reject moorti-puja. It is part of the great mosaic called Hinduism and cannot be summarily rejected. Their influence has waned greatly over the years. In our local Arya Samaj mandir in Delhi, about 10 elderly people show up for the weekly havans, whereas the SD mandir has daily morning/evening aartis and many people stream through it during the morning and evening hours to have a Darshan, circumambulate and say silent prayers to one or all deities - the deities on the main alter being Radha-Krishan, Laxmi-Narayan, Ram-Laxman-Sita-Hanuman and a special room for Shiv-Ling*.


I got one book that was a conversation between a seeker and an Arya Samaj Pandit where the Pandit made fun of idol worship, belief in Ganesha, Shiva, Durga and in the avatars and called the people who belief in such things, idiots.Yes, the Arya Samaj pundit uses the word 'idiot', Srila Prabhupad used the word 'rascal' and just about every high priest would tell you that you are 'living in darkness', if you don't follow his way; which is a polite/spiritual way of saying that you are an 'idiot' for not listening to/following his brand of Hinduism. So everyone does it in some shape or form. The words they choose are different but the sentiments are identical. I have been called worse things in this forum ;) for some of my posts. We can and must choose to not internalize those unflattering adjectives, accept whatever goodness comes from a Hindu sect/swami and 'Move On'. Keeping your focus on distractions makes you lose sight of the goal!

Pranam.

* Shiv-Ling is in a separate room all by itself, presumably because it requires an up front and close contact for touching and for providing a suitable container to collect the liquid offerings made to the Shiv-Ling(am).

Sahasranama
22 October 2011, 10:20 AM
This threat got bumped. I have written this a long time ago.

I have recently written about the hypocricy of the Arya Samaj here:
http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=73981&postcount=21

wundermonk
22 October 2011, 10:23 AM
^^^How so? They started many reconversion campaigns and continue to do run them even today...:dunno:

Satyarth Prakash was banned in many parts of Muslim-dominated India when it was first published.

Sahasranama
22 October 2011, 10:27 AM
Simply because a book was banned by muslims doesn't mean we have to swing to the other side of the pendulum and start praising that book. All the three abrahamic religions hate each other, the Arya Samaj is simply the fourth member.

wundermonk
22 October 2011, 10:33 AM
Simply because a book was banned by muslims doesn't mean we have to swing to the other side of the pendulum and start praising that book. All the three abrahamic religions hate each other, the Arya Samaj is simply the fourth member.

Well...I dont believe in many of Arya Samaj's positions myself...but no...they are not on any conspiracy to destroy SD.

Sahasranama
22 October 2011, 10:45 AM
Well...I dont believe in many of Arya Samaj's positions myself...but no...they are not on any conspiracy to destroy SD.
...or are they, what else would you call a sect that is trying to eliminate murti puja, the puranas, agamas, tantras and all local customs and traditions from India to replace them with their own fabricated protestant influenced version of the vedas. They are abrahamic missionaries with brown skin.

R Gitananda
22 October 2011, 12:56 PM
namaste

Well said Sahasranama. Throughout history there has always been sects
that believe that the highest calling of spirituality is to correct everyone
else by showing them the "one", "pure" way that religion should be
practiced. From Zoroaster to Moses to Jesus to Mohammed and many
less known figures along the way. Do all these teachers really believe
that an unchanging Supreme Being is as obsessed as they are that
people get with the latest "Truth"?

Hari Aum


...or are they, what else would you call a sect that is trying to eliminate murti puja, the puranas, agamas, tantras and all local customs and traditions from India to replace them with their own fabricated protestant influenced version of the vedas. They are abrahamic missionaries with brown skin.

Ganeshprasad
22 October 2011, 05:05 PM
Pranam


... They are abrahamic missionaries with brown skin.

I have never come across an Arya samaji preaching. This is a fringe group with a limited influence. live and let live, they still follow Dharma that is good enough for me.
No i do not like their opinions on Murti puja but then i do not like a lot of things, do i therefor go on a crusade to fight them all?

Jai Shree Krishna

shian
22 October 2011, 11:16 PM
We must respect all sect,
But how if they said we and our ancestors is idiot because we all using murtis and know about the true meaning of caste. Or some sect who said we and our ancestors is bad than evil only because we dont use their method of choosing istadevata.
Well we dont say they are evil, because if we say that, we will same with them.
I only know that what happen with our mind ? Is we in peace ? We need blame other to find a peace ? We need said others is idiot to feel that we are wise ? We need to say others is go to hell only to increase our believe that we will have heaven ? We need to say that others is evil only to feel we walk in right path ? That is only mental manipulation. You will never find a peace from this kind of self manipulation , even you doing many good things, because you will not in peace when you crused others is evil. If Lord experience is not produce peace, so what is heaven ?

Sahasranama
23 October 2011, 04:36 AM
Pranam



I have never come across an Arya samaji preaching. This is a fringe group with a limited influence. live and let live, they still follow Dharma that is good enough for me.
No i do not like their opinions on Murti puja but then i do not like a lot of things, do i therefor go on a crusade to fight them all?

Jai Shree Krishna

Certainly, religion is merely a label for most people, but if we are going to have an intelligent discussion about something, we should look beyond the label someone is carrying, at the content of the doctrine. Some members of the Arya Samaj may not be strict followers, but that doesn't change anything when we are discussing the message of the Satyartha Prakash or the logic behind the translations of Dayananda.

satay
24 October 2011, 05:24 PM
namaste sahas,

I do not know the message of the founder of arya smaj to the detail that you seem to know but just wondering, have you been to an arya smaj mandir?

I really don't know what you find so offending about arya smajis and why you are using HDF as a platform for your agenda against them.

A lot of people say don't do murthi puja, so what?:rolleyes:


Certainly, religion is merely a label for most people, but if we are going to have an intelligent discussion about something, we should look beyond the label someone is carrying, at the content of the doctrine. Some members of the Arya Samaj may not be strict followers, but that doesn't change anything when we are discussing the message of the Satyartha Prakash or the logic behind the translations of Dayananda.

Sahasranama
25 October 2011, 03:39 AM
namaste sahas,

I do not know the message of the founder of arya smaj to the detail that you seem to know but just wondering, have you been to an arya smaj mandir?

I really don't know what you find so offending about arya smajis and why you are using HDF as a platform for your agenda against them.

A lot of people say don't do murthi puja, so what?:rolleyes:
I am not going to repeat myself, I think I have written enough about it. If you still don't understand, let's leave it at that.

devotee
25 October 2011, 06:36 AM
Namaste Satay and all,



I do not know the message of the founder of arya smaj to the detail that you seem to know but just wondering, have you been to an arya smaj mandir?

I really don't know what you find so offending about arya smajis and why you are using HDF as a platform for your agenda against them.

A lot of people say don't do murthi puja, so what?:rolleyes:

Exactly ! You have very rightly pointed out. We are not like any Abrahimic religion & there is no fixed belief system that we must follow to be called a Hindu. Worshiping a Murti or otherwise has never been a qualification for being called a Hindu. If we say that then what shall happen to the followers of Nirguna Brahman who were born before Dayananda Saraswati ?

Dayananda Saraswati questions everything in his book Satyartha Prakash which is illogical to him ... and he has every right to do so. Different doctrines, different paths and endless debates to establish what is the right message of the Vedas has been the beauty of the Hindu Dharma. The Samhita portion of the Vedas laid a lot of emphasis on Karma KAnd ... but the Vedantis didn't agree. Within the Vedantis too there are many disputes on the correct message of the Vedas/Vedanta & so there are six different schools having their own interpretations of the Vedanta.

You have all right to say that your interpretation is correct & his interpretation is incorrect ... but how can he be called an anti-Hindu ? Let there be a Dharmic debate to decide ... he who loses would become the follower of the winner ... as is the custom.

Now who is going to have such a debate with the Arya-SamAjis ?

OM

R Gitananda
25 October 2011, 11:51 AM
namaste

I myself do not practice murti puja, however I recognize it as an important
part of temple worship and therefore an integral part of Sanatana Dharma.
Therefore I have no side to debate with respect to murti puja. I respect
those that worhip the murtis as much as those that don't.

I think the issue is when one Hindu tells another "you shouldn't do that"
because they don't practice it. When this is done sentiments are
hurt and the possibility of violence is very real.

Sure, a Hindu could choose to criticize someone s/he believes is advanced
enough to handle the critique (and open-minded enough to actually consider
changing) but if anyone engages in wholesale distribution of materials intended
to undermine the faith of others, then it is fair to compare them with Abrahamics.

Sri Shankara had a playful and even irreverent approach, but when I read
about him I imagine a smile always upon his face and his words being tinged
with love - the way that Sri Krushna used to tease those he loved.

When he arrived, he found the doors locked. Misra was holding a
religious ceremony and did not wish to be disturbed. Shankara, with the
mischievous spirit of a boy in his teens, claimed a nearby tree and jumped
down from it into the courtyard. Misra noticed him among the crowd.
He disapproved of monks---especially when they were so youthful---
and asked sarcastically: "Whence comes this shaven head?"

"You have eyes to see, Sir," Shankara answered saucily: "The shaven head
comes up from the neck." Misra lost his temper, but Shankara continued
to tease him, and at length the two of them agreed to hold a debate ...
Shankara's Crest-Jewel of Discrimination
Swami Prabhavananda & C. Isherwood
As to becoming a follower of the winner of a debate ... I think those days
are long gone. Unless there is an impartial panel to act as a binding arbiter,
then all the 'winner' of a debate is likely to get (and I speak from experience)
are ad-hominem attacks and threats; and (if you have not so indulged in them
yourself) you can assume that your receipt of those 'awards' are sure signs
that your opponent has been defeated.

Hari Aum



...
You have all right to say that your interpretation is correct & his interpretation is incorrect ... but how can he be called an anti-Hindu ? Let there be a Dharmic debate to decide ... he who loses would become the follower of the winner ... as is the custom.

Now who is going to have such a debate with the Arya-SamAjis ?

OM ...

satay
25 October 2011, 12:24 PM
Admin Note


I am not going to repeat myself, I think I have written enough about it. If you still don't understand, let's leave it at that.

Please stop using HDF for your own agendas. Last warning.

Thank you.

ahab
25 October 2011, 12:31 PM
Admin Note



Please stop using HDF for your own agendas. Last warning.

Thank you.
I think Sahasranama is aware of what hes talking about here satay and not propagating any agenda...

What you guys are not aware is that most of the hindu oraganizations now a days like iskcon and arya samaj are created and funded by the same western powers that wants to destroy hinduism.

shian
26 October 2011, 02:08 AM
well, in future, also will born so many sect with different or other explanation , this kind will hapened and never ending in this human world, but this not about who is original who is true, its about : "Is my mind find true peace who also can give peace to other and all lokha ?"

if my mind cant peace and cant bring peace to others, so why i fighting for my sect ? because this kind of sect and this type of God (whatever the founder said about the truth) is manifestation of my ego, manifestation of my blowzy mind, acctually i not fight for God, but for my ego.

PARAM
03 November 2011, 10:28 AM
Arya Samaj is responsible for Popularising Sanskrit, Vedas, Upnishads, exposing the Aryan Invasion Theory, countering Anti Hindus and reconverting to Hinduism, Cow protection movement and many others. Their Karma is enough good and worthy, I know many Arya Samajis, nobody mock at idol worshiping, they only support Yajna.

Sahasranama
06 February 2012, 03:59 PM
namaste sahas,

I do not know the message of the founder of arya smaj to the detail that you seem to know but just wondering, have you been to an arya smaj mandir?

I really don't know what you find so offending about arya smajis and why you are using HDF as a platform for your agenda against them.

A lot of people say don't do murthi puja, so what?:rolleyes:

I have attented many classed from an Arya Samaj Pundit and have visited their satsangs, yajnas and yoga classes and I have read quite a few Arya Samaj publications. I had already talked about this many times before, so I didn't want to repeat myself. My overall interactions with the Arya Samajists have not been negative, but my observation nonetheless has been that the central attitude of the Arya Samaj which is their censure of and crusade against "non-vedic" ideas within Hinduism, is very destructive. Since Surya Deva has made a short reappearance on this forum, you don't need to hear this from me anymore. You have experienced first handed what the problem is with people who denigrate Hindu traditions like murti puja, purana, agama in favour of a fantasy version of a vedic religion. Even though Surya Deva claims to follow the Shankaracharya's tradition of avaita vedanta (which is a joke), he has simply been rehashing Arya Samaja propaganda against Hinduism in his recent posts. I often get criticised for pointing this out about the Arya Samaj, but sometimes people just need to see things for themselves.

Believer
06 February 2012, 04:54 PM
Namaste,

........most of the hindu oraganizations now a days like iskcon and arya samaj are created and funded by the same western powers that wants to destroy hinduism.
Any specifics?
Which powers - US or UK or Canada or ??
Through their intelligence networks, like CIA or Scotland Yard or (Canadians don't have an intelligence gathering agency, do they?, the mounties? ) ?????

Just curious about the basis of this allegation?

Pranam.

Sahasranama
07 February 2012, 11:19 PM
I think Dr Koenraad Elst is also reading Hindu Dharma Forums. He is updating his blog on the subject of Arya Samaj and monotheism. :)

http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2012/02/is-there-vedic-monotheism.html

http://koenraadelst.blogspot.com/2012/02/vedic-monotheism-1-dawn-of-monotheism.html

Seeker123
08 February 2012, 01:37 PM
There is another Swami Dayananda Saraswathi who is perhaps one of the most knowledgeable of our scriptures.

Swami Dayananda Saraswati (Hindi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi): दयानन्*द सरस्*वती) (born August 15, 1930)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayananda_Saraswati_(Chinmaya_Mission)#cite_note-dialogues-0) is a monk of the Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism) monastic order and a renowned traditional teacher of Advaita Vedanta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayananda_Saraswati_(Chinmaya_Mission)

Eastern Mind
08 February 2012, 01:52 PM
There is another Swami Dayananda Saraswathi who is perhaps one of the most knowledgeable of our scriptures.

Swami Dayananda Saraswati (Hindi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi): दयानन्*द सरस्*वती) (born August 15, 1930)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayananda_Saraswati_%28Chinmaya_Mission%29#cite_note-dialogues-0) is a monk of the Hindu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism) monastic order and a renowned traditional teacher of Advaita Vedanta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayananda_Saraswati_(Chinmaya_Mission (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayananda_Saraswati_%28Chinmaya_Mission))

Vannakkam: This one, the head of Arsha Vidya Gurukulam, is an excellent speaker. I heard him many years ago, and the Ashram in Pennsylvania http://www.arshavidya.org/home.html has a very peaceful vibration to it. I think Swami spends most of his time in India these days.

Aum Namasivaya

Seeker123
09 February 2012, 02:12 PM
True, many of his disciples are also very knowledgeable. I have been to a couple of camps there nice place.

Satyamavejayante
15 February 2012, 11:05 PM
I have read Satya Prakash, and it had changed my life.

I owe it to Dayanand to inspire me to understand and stay im Sanatana Dharma.

Im not Arya Samji, but am trying to be ARYA.