Sri Vaishnava
21 January 2008, 07:05 AM
Alright, I am gonna try this one more time. Most people who say Shiva is superior to Vishnu or that Krishna is an incarnation of Shiva or that Jesus is Brahma are pretty much sticking to misinterpretations. I will address this, and later on, if this is resolved, shall move on to refute advaita.
Identity of Narayana
Note: If you have a personal love for Shiva, that cannot be an excuse to decry this post. I am quoting Vedas, that is all.
Although many people tend to equate Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, there is only one supreme being from whom evrything emanated. The mahopanishad declares,
Thadahu- Ekohaavai Narayana Aaseeth. Na Brahmaneshano.....
Na nakshathrani, na suryo, na chandrama. Sa Ekaki na rametha.
Thasyadhyananthasthya yagna sthoma muchyathe.....
In the beginning Narayana was alone (Ekovaahai). There was no Brahma(nabrhama) there was no Shiva (na Eeshano), no sun, moon or stars. He was alone (Sa Ekakee).
No Brahma, No Shiva. There is no mention of Vishnu here, so we cannot say that 'Vishnu was not there'. Hence, this verse separates Vishnu from the other two.
Anya devatha like Indra, Agni, etc. at various points have been discounted from the race for supremacy in the Vedas. So the situation really boils down to Shiva and Vishnu. Here, it has been mentioned that Rudra was created. Any intelligent Vedantin would agree that this is the Mahadeva.
Adha punareva Narayanasoanyathkamo manasa adhyatha. Thasya
dhyananthasya lalatath thryaksha shulapaani purusho bhibrthsriyam, .........
thasyadeeshano maha devo maha deva.
Narayana again meditated. From the face (lalata) of the meditating Narayana was born Rudra with three eyes and tejas. He had renounciation and other qualities. Therefore he is regarded as Mahadeva instead of simply a deva.
Also, the Narayanopanishad declares:
Om ada puruhohavai Narayanoakmayatha Prjasnayethi..... Narayanth
Brhmaajaythe, Narayanth Rudrojayathe, Narayanth Indrojayathe... Ethath
rugveda shirodheethe.
Brahma, Rudra, Indra, everything emanated from Narayana.
Narayana Parabrahma srva karana karanam (Narayana is the cause of all
causes).
Now, people may argue that in some places Rudra is termed supreme. Or Indra. And so on. But clearly, the Vedas say that Rudra and Brahma are born out of Narayana. Hence, they are not eternal. Then, the fact is, 'Rudra' means Roarer or Howler and can be used as a term for Narayana as well. It does not indicate Mahadeva Shiva.
Shiva or Rudra is a common noun. Hence, Shiva can be used for Narayana. But Narayana is a proper noun. It cannot be used for Shiva. So when Shiva or Rudra is termed supreme, it simply means Narayana is the one being referred to here, because he is unambiguously declared as Supreme. Hence, it does not pertain to Mahadeva.
Shiva means Auspicious. So, when it says Narayana is Siva, it means that either 1) Narayana is Auspicious, or 2) It indicates that Shiva is endowed with one quality of Narayana. For instance, Brahma has intelligence, Indra has Aishwarya, Kubera has wealth. But Narayana has intelligence, aishwarya and wealth. So, Narayana is Brahma, Indra and Kubera, but that does not mean Brahma or Indra are Narayana.
Now, look at this:
1) Purusha Sukta of Taittiriya Aranyaka (3.13.2) refers to master of Hari and Lakshmi (Vishnu) as Purusha, the Supreme God.
2) . Visvakarma Sukta of Rig Veda (10.82) refers to Vishnu indirectly as the Supreme God.
10.082.06: The waters verily first retained the embryo in which all the gods were aggregated, single deposited on the navel of the unborn (creator), in which all beings abide. The reference to the navel of the unborn is an indication of reference to Vishnu.
3) The Rig Veda (1.22.20) states, Om tad vishnoh paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūrayah: "All the suras (i.e., the devas) look always toward the feet of Lord Vishnu."
4) There are also hymns in Rigveda which describe Vishnu as Jagathkartha -meaning 'he who created everything'.
5) Agni is the youngest and Vishnu is the oldest.
6) Rig Veda V.I.15b.3, for the importance of chanting Vishnu's name, "O ye who wish to gain realization of the supreme truth, utter the name of Vishnu at least once in the steadfast faith that it will lead you to such realization."
Now you may argue that Vishnu, like Rudra or Shiva, is also an aspect of Narayana, but this is refuted because nowhere in the Vedas is there any mention of Vishnu being created by Narayana. But there is mention of Rudra and Brahma being created by Narayana. Furthermore, look at this:
He who has no understanding, who is unmindful and always impure, never reaches that place, but enters into the round of births. But he who has understanding, who is mindful and always pure, reaches indeed that place, from whence he is not born again. But he who has understanding for his charioteer (intellect), and who holds the reins of the mind, he reaches the end of his journey, and that is the highest place of Vishnu.
~ Katha Upanishad.
The gods be gracious unto us even from the place whence Vishnu strode, through the seven regions of the earth. Through all this strode Vishnu; thrice His foot He planted, and the whole was gathered in His footstep’s dust. Vishnu, the Guardian, He whom none deceiveth, made three steps; thenceforth establishing His high decrees. Look ye on Vishnu’s works, whereby the Friend of Indra, close-allied, hath let His holy ways be seen. The princes evermore behold that loftiest place where Vishnu is, laid as it were an eye in heaven. This, Vishnu’s station most sublime, the singers ever vigilant, lovers of holy song, light up.”
~ (Rig-veda, 1.22.16-21)
“Far-shining, widely famed, going Thy wonted way, fed with the oil, be helpful, Mitra-like, to us. So, Vishnu, even the wise must swell Thy song of praise, and he who hath oblations must pay thee solemn rites. He who brings gifts to Him, the Ancient and the Last, to Vishnu who ordains, together with His spouse [Lakshmi], who tells the lofty birth of Him, the Lofty One, shall verily surpass in glory even his peer... The Sovran Varuna and both the Asvins wait on this the will of Him who guides the Marut host. Vishnu hath power supreme and might that finds the day... ”
~ Rig-veda 1.156.1,2-4.
Hence, Vishnu is Supreme. Vishnu means all-pervading, and since nowhere has He been mentioned to have been created, we can take it to mean that He indeed is all-pervading. So, if he is all-pervading, he has to be Supreme, ie, Narayana. There is also an etymological connection between Narayana and Vishnu.
Identity of Narayana
Note: If you have a personal love for Shiva, that cannot be an excuse to decry this post. I am quoting Vedas, that is all.
Although many people tend to equate Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, there is only one supreme being from whom evrything emanated. The mahopanishad declares,
Thadahu- Ekohaavai Narayana Aaseeth. Na Brahmaneshano.....
Na nakshathrani, na suryo, na chandrama. Sa Ekaki na rametha.
Thasyadhyananthasthya yagna sthoma muchyathe.....
In the beginning Narayana was alone (Ekovaahai). There was no Brahma(nabrhama) there was no Shiva (na Eeshano), no sun, moon or stars. He was alone (Sa Ekakee).
No Brahma, No Shiva. There is no mention of Vishnu here, so we cannot say that 'Vishnu was not there'. Hence, this verse separates Vishnu from the other two.
Anya devatha like Indra, Agni, etc. at various points have been discounted from the race for supremacy in the Vedas. So the situation really boils down to Shiva and Vishnu. Here, it has been mentioned that Rudra was created. Any intelligent Vedantin would agree that this is the Mahadeva.
Adha punareva Narayanasoanyathkamo manasa adhyatha. Thasya
dhyananthasya lalatath thryaksha shulapaani purusho bhibrthsriyam, .........
thasyadeeshano maha devo maha deva.
Narayana again meditated. From the face (lalata) of the meditating Narayana was born Rudra with three eyes and tejas. He had renounciation and other qualities. Therefore he is regarded as Mahadeva instead of simply a deva.
Also, the Narayanopanishad declares:
Om ada puruhohavai Narayanoakmayatha Prjasnayethi..... Narayanth
Brhmaajaythe, Narayanth Rudrojayathe, Narayanth Indrojayathe... Ethath
rugveda shirodheethe.
Brahma, Rudra, Indra, everything emanated from Narayana.
Narayana Parabrahma srva karana karanam (Narayana is the cause of all
causes).
Now, people may argue that in some places Rudra is termed supreme. Or Indra. And so on. But clearly, the Vedas say that Rudra and Brahma are born out of Narayana. Hence, they are not eternal. Then, the fact is, 'Rudra' means Roarer or Howler and can be used as a term for Narayana as well. It does not indicate Mahadeva Shiva.
Shiva or Rudra is a common noun. Hence, Shiva can be used for Narayana. But Narayana is a proper noun. It cannot be used for Shiva. So when Shiva or Rudra is termed supreme, it simply means Narayana is the one being referred to here, because he is unambiguously declared as Supreme. Hence, it does not pertain to Mahadeva.
Shiva means Auspicious. So, when it says Narayana is Siva, it means that either 1) Narayana is Auspicious, or 2) It indicates that Shiva is endowed with one quality of Narayana. For instance, Brahma has intelligence, Indra has Aishwarya, Kubera has wealth. But Narayana has intelligence, aishwarya and wealth. So, Narayana is Brahma, Indra and Kubera, but that does not mean Brahma or Indra are Narayana.
Now, look at this:
1) Purusha Sukta of Taittiriya Aranyaka (3.13.2) refers to master of Hari and Lakshmi (Vishnu) as Purusha, the Supreme God.
2) . Visvakarma Sukta of Rig Veda (10.82) refers to Vishnu indirectly as the Supreme God.
10.082.06: The waters verily first retained the embryo in which all the gods were aggregated, single deposited on the navel of the unborn (creator), in which all beings abide. The reference to the navel of the unborn is an indication of reference to Vishnu.
3) The Rig Veda (1.22.20) states, Om tad vishnoh paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūrayah: "All the suras (i.e., the devas) look always toward the feet of Lord Vishnu."
4) There are also hymns in Rigveda which describe Vishnu as Jagathkartha -meaning 'he who created everything'.
5) Agni is the youngest and Vishnu is the oldest.
6) Rig Veda V.I.15b.3, for the importance of chanting Vishnu's name, "O ye who wish to gain realization of the supreme truth, utter the name of Vishnu at least once in the steadfast faith that it will lead you to such realization."
Now you may argue that Vishnu, like Rudra or Shiva, is also an aspect of Narayana, but this is refuted because nowhere in the Vedas is there any mention of Vishnu being created by Narayana. But there is mention of Rudra and Brahma being created by Narayana. Furthermore, look at this:
He who has no understanding, who is unmindful and always impure, never reaches that place, but enters into the round of births. But he who has understanding, who is mindful and always pure, reaches indeed that place, from whence he is not born again. But he who has understanding for his charioteer (intellect), and who holds the reins of the mind, he reaches the end of his journey, and that is the highest place of Vishnu.
~ Katha Upanishad.
The gods be gracious unto us even from the place whence Vishnu strode, through the seven regions of the earth. Through all this strode Vishnu; thrice His foot He planted, and the whole was gathered in His footstep’s dust. Vishnu, the Guardian, He whom none deceiveth, made three steps; thenceforth establishing His high decrees. Look ye on Vishnu’s works, whereby the Friend of Indra, close-allied, hath let His holy ways be seen. The princes evermore behold that loftiest place where Vishnu is, laid as it were an eye in heaven. This, Vishnu’s station most sublime, the singers ever vigilant, lovers of holy song, light up.”
~ (Rig-veda, 1.22.16-21)
“Far-shining, widely famed, going Thy wonted way, fed with the oil, be helpful, Mitra-like, to us. So, Vishnu, even the wise must swell Thy song of praise, and he who hath oblations must pay thee solemn rites. He who brings gifts to Him, the Ancient and the Last, to Vishnu who ordains, together with His spouse [Lakshmi], who tells the lofty birth of Him, the Lofty One, shall verily surpass in glory even his peer... The Sovran Varuna and both the Asvins wait on this the will of Him who guides the Marut host. Vishnu hath power supreme and might that finds the day... ”
~ Rig-veda 1.156.1,2-4.
Hence, Vishnu is Supreme. Vishnu means all-pervading, and since nowhere has He been mentioned to have been created, we can take it to mean that He indeed is all-pervading. So, if he is all-pervading, he has to be Supreme, ie, Narayana. There is also an etymological connection between Narayana and Vishnu.