Mod Behaviour

[Singhi Kaya]

Hi,

I thought i would put this public as I'm slightly confused by one of the mod behaviours.

I have been de-repped multiple times by this mod-id (not sure if he is the same person always) and always I found no logical explanation for his behaviour. However what doesn't make sense to me might to him~I didn't wanted to be bothered by such stuff. But the latest deletion of a comment and de-repping is so much off my comprehension scale that I'm forced to put it. Ofcourse I could directly PM the concerned mod~but I don't think he could explain as I think I don't understand him. Also since I never complain someone to someone esle~thought I'ud place it publicly.

The mod-edited post is here http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=4047&postcount=2

I don't remember exactly what I had written, but it was roughly saying to c.smith that in case he more in tune for devotional way - vaishnava may be the suitable path for him. he also mentions his natuaral choice for vishnu as deity. I also added if the all the knowledgable vaishnavas have not left the forum they might provide him info on that.

This was deleted, there was a de-repping and the comment left by the mod is "preaching and proselytizing Vaishnava philosophy".

I have no clue what he is talking about and I think he has no clue about me or my words. I am not vaishnava and for me all hindu is same. How can someone who calls himself hindu gets agitated to suggestion of vaishnavism to another hindu for his personal query, along with other suggestions (I mentioned vedanta first)?? What is going on here?? I find the entire comment very offensive and that can come only come from someone with deep hatred for a tradition of hinduism. For me this is sectarianism and anti hindu behaviour. The entire thread is directed towards one person for his personal question Nowhere a single sentence refers to anything in general terms, nor a single word used was sharing a superioirty of one sect over other. I'm so shocked that words are failing me.

I won't say much, but if mods here go on carrying on their personal agenda and direct hatred in such a blatant fashion (so many times I see direct words of hatred against ISKCON) I think the forum will die prematurely.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Singhi,
I read your original post earlier today, and I do not remember any serious problem with it.
I certainly wouldn't say that you were "preaching", and the comments were relevant to the original post (and to the apparent disappearance of some Vaishnava members recently).
There is, however, plenty of scope for Bhakti in Shaivism (and even more in Shaktism), and directing someone to Vishnu merely because they have a preference for Devotion is not appropriate.
All members are free to personally approve or disapprove of any post ~ and if anyone feels strongly enough, it is their own personal choice to add to or subtract from the posters reputation. Reputation is not a tool for official moderation ~ but it should work automatically to moderate any tendency for postings that upset more members than they inspire.

[Jalasayanan]

There is, however, plenty of scope for Bhakti in Shaivism (and even more in Shaktism), and directing someone to Vishnu merely because they have a preference for Devotion is not appropriate

Can I conclude even if someone has preferece of devotion to Vishnu, that person should not be asked to stick to what he prefers in this forum?

Just a clarification I require for similar material is post 3 and 4 is not deleted, hence this could not be correct

[sarabhanga]

even if someone has preference of devotion to Vishnu
Perhaps you should re-read the original post:

The puja that I do daily is to Ganesha. I consider him my friend and guide.
Why not Ganapatya? ;)

[Jalasayanan]

Shri Sharabhanga Namaskaram

Why not Ganapatya is valid question, but I ask you why not Vishnu as OP also talks about preference to Vishnu. Hope this should also be valid as such as your question

Why you had said it is not appropriate to divert a person to Vishnu
and directing someone to Vishnu merely because they have a preference for Devotion is not appropriate inspite of the fact the OP read
How does one "choose" which God to worship? If I were to follow my heart, it would be Vishnu

If asking someone to prostate to vishnu itself is banned in this forum, then as suggested by other vaishnavs, this forum should not be a common forum for hindus as such. All are much against preaching made by Vaishnavs, that is OK. But I cannot see why every one is against Vaishnavism as such

I do not want to go for a debate on this, probably after your reply to this, I will PM you separately for your opinions in case there is a doubt

[satay]

Judging by the posts of the members who do post here I come to the conclusion that NO member of the forum (at least those who have posted so far) is against Vaishanism.

some members have in the past only pointed out the 'excessive' preaching of some vaishnavas.

[Jalasayanan]

Judging by the posts of the members who do post here I come to the conclusion that on member of the forum (at least those who have posted so far) is against Vaishanism.

some members have in the past only pointed out the 'excessive' preaching of some vaishnavas.
Hope you will edit this soon

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Admin Note:

Preaching, debating, politics, etc. are fine when they are kept on topic and in context. I have removed a number of posts by Singhi Kaya that were blatantly off-topic and in a way that would make one conclude they were preaching. Rather than get in to the other cases, I would not have had a problem with the post if there wasn't unnecessary politics included that had nothing to do with the topic. The OP had a set of questions about Hinduism and some brief background information. One of the questions was "How does one choose which God to worship?" An on-topic answer would have been something like this, "Well you mentioned you do rituals to Ganapati and you said yourself that if you followed your heart, it would be Vishnu. Therefore, I would choose Vishnu."

An inappropriate comment is like this, "You should worship Vishnu especially as so many Vaishnavas have been chased out of this forum." I don't remember the exact quote but it was quite similar to this. I am not normally that picky but Singhi Kaya has been asked multiple times to keep the posts on topic and this became a noticable problem in the Islam forum. When irrelevant politics enter a response to a new user of the forum who is trying to learn about Hinduism, it is not "positive Hindu presentation." Additionally, when a person asks a set of questions, an inappropriate response is "Don't worry about it. Just do [this] instead." If a response is not going to answer the person's questions and is going on about something else, it shouldn't be posted.

Again, I wouldn't be that picky if it wasn't for the fact that A) it was a new user on the forum that doesn't need irrelevant politics in a post containing simple questions about Hinduism and b) there weren't multiple problems with these kinds of off-topic posts in the past by the same user.

As to user reputations, these are independent of moderation. They contain personal opinions about why the person giving the reputation approves or disapproves of a post. If a post contains irrelevant politics that might start a flame, it is likely someone will give disapproval to that post.

Do you have any questions about using this forum? If so, please send a private message to Bhakti Yoga Seeker or contact one of the other administrators on this website. ~BYS~

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

directing someone to Vishnu merely because they have a preference for Devotion is not appropriate
And I have said nothing about directing someone who is seeking Vishnu to Vishnu!
I really think that Singhi Kaya's comment was innocently made, and I had tried to support Singhi without denying that BYS might have had some justifiable point of disagreement ~ it is difficult to say now, because the exact original wording has been deleted.
I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition (to paraphrase Monty Python) and I hope that the matter is now settled.

[Singhi Kaya]

Namaste BYS,

I don't understand why you need to fall back on Islam when the question raised in on a very specific thread and a very specific topic. You don't need to provide what impression you have of me and my general posting habit in this context.

Reading the above it doesn't make at all clear why my posy came as a preaching. Except false allegations of politics. You oviously overreated to a few sentences and didn't read them in context or the material in OP and displayed your own predujice in the matter. Look at post # 5 from Arjuna~he directly refers to books on Sri Vaishnavism as answer to OP. I'll quote it for convinience:-

c.smith[/b]
Namaste -
I have several questions that pertain to finding my path within the Hindu faith. Much of what I'll be writing has been on my mind for some time, but I haven't been able to find the answers that I'm looking for from the resources that I've used. Anything that you could suggest or offer would be greatly appreciated.
My experience lies mainly with ISKCON, and although I believe much of what they've taught, I have a few areas that make me uncomfortable. One is that I won't be able to be initiated because of my views on the 4th principle. I am also concerned because everything that I asked, no matter how detailed, seems to answered with "chant more" or "read more".

Namaste,

Maybe U try to get some idea of Shri Vallabhacharya's Vaishnavism and Shrivaishnavism? These two traditions are IMO most serious among existing nowadays.

Then, Guru is needed. Pray to Shri Hari, and He will bring U to Ur Guru. Bhakti and Atma-samarpana is essential.

Is the above quote from Arjuna preaching or not preaching in your esteemed openion??
Did you ever read the OP before getting ready with your censoring scissors??
If Arjuna's comment is offensive than I have nothing to say and rest of this post is irrelevant. May be I should not post in that case or send all post via BYS for approval. If it is not, then double-standards and personal bias in moderation cannot be overlooked.

If you take time to read the OP it will be clear that the poster had experiences with ISKCON and had vaishnava incline. My answer like most other's on that thread was an innocent reply to his personal question from a personal standpoint and experience. Since I'm not vaishnava I went to suggest vedanta first and mentioned vaishnava for ovious reasons. Arjuna did the same more directly.

The thread was for a new hindu asking personal questions about dharma which we were trying to answer personally~until you barged in and charged it up with your openion of caste system. And it is you repeatedly accuse other's of going off topic!! With no straw in the current issue you go back on the Islam issue to gather some back-up. Where on earth did you find irrelevant politics in the c.smith reply??. Islam issue is a different issue and this thread is not meant for it. If you have any openions on my posting behaviour I would be obliged if you keep it to yourself unless strictly within the topic.

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Admin Note:

I have already explained my reasons for the editing of the post. The matter is settled and my decision is final. As usual, you didn't read or fully comprehend what I said and I am not going to waste my time repeating myself. Anyone on here can see several places in the post in question where you threw stuff in there that was completely off-topic and in a way that would easily start a debate or flame. One of those was dealt with in moderation. The other one was questioned simply as a user. In the former, you are now even dragging this thread off topic. In the latter, you are still dragging the other thread more and more off-topic due to your complaints. As for the past, we rely on the past behavior of posters to determine how strict we need to be on the posts. This is common sense. Someone who has no trouble in the past is likely to be cut some slack. However, someone that has caused a number of problems in the past and still chooses to continue despite warnings will receive stricter treatment.

Once again, on my end this matter is settled. Please read the site rules to fully understand what is required here. Further off-topic complaints and arguments will result in further action. If you do not agree to the terms and conditions, then please find another forum to complain at.

Do you have any questions about how to use the forums? If so, please send a private message to Bhakti Yoga Seeker or contact one of the other administrators of this website. ~BYS~

[Singhi Kaya]

I understand mod decesion is final but I seeked other's openion and put forward my own.
But I think that purpose has been served. Many have speaked what they though, some via PMs. It's better to close this thread as there is now little value to add except personal openion on someone else and I have said more than I could possibly say~but hopefully I was not off-point or topic at any instance.

Thanks to all for providing constructive openions.

[Jalasayanan]

Judging by the posts of the members who do post here I come to the conclusion that NO member of the forum (at least those who have posted so far) is against Vaishanism.

some members have in the past only pointed out the 'excessive' preaching of some vaishnavas.

Thanks Satay for editing

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=4484&postcount=42

here is the proof of my statement. Original posts can be tracked here http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=288

Let me the first person to voice this up. It is not the members but BYS as a moderator who is spreading Vaishnav Hatered in real.

I repeat again, many members accuse BYS as Shameless for his attitude and behaviour. As Moderators owns this site, I have nothing to say further, for in your house, it is your rules that guides all.

If Satay really feels this is not vaishnav hatered, 1 either he is not vaishnav or 2 he will start a separate forum soon.

Trust mods will not delete this post and will reply to this substantiating their stance. I will not post further but will be watching the developments as other deserters, provided my ID is not blocked.

Ramkish was right in is comments and Pankaja was more right in his opinion

[satay]

namaste,
and thank you for the post.


Thanks Satay for editing

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=4484&postcount=42

here is the proof of my statement. Original posts can be tracked here http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=288



Your links do not prove anything. The OP of that link was made by Arjuna. When I pointed out that the post will cause flaming and that dalits.com or anything related to dalits on the internet can not be trusted and we should not waste our time on it, he agreed and pointed out that the link might have some historical interest to members. I don't agree with that either but that is my personal opinion this is why I didn't delete his post but simply closed the thread. Arjuna in a pm apologized and asked me to delete the OP. No hard feelings there.

What BYS is saying is that the actual content of Arjuna post is not breaking the rules; well, he is right technically it is not. But we can judge that post would have ended in members flaming each other. BYS is right in that the post belonged to 'other' forum and not to vaishnava forum since reference to other deities is made in the op.

I don't see how this is BYS' personal hatred towards vaishnava.



Let me the first person to voice this up. It is not the members but BYS as a moderator who is spreading Vaishnav Hatered in real.


No. BYS is not spreading hatred. It is the immature vaishnavas that seem to be dime a dozen over the net that are going around like gundas and shoving bhagwan down other people's throats all the while undermining bhagwan's own power!!



I repeat again, many members accuse BYS as Shameless for his attitude and behaviour. As Moderators owns this site, I have nothing to say further, for in your house, it is your rules that guides all.

Rules are rules and no one is above the rules. If you feel that a post is breaking a rule please report it.

As far as calling BYS shameless and such...it only shows the immature nature of the members who are making these claims. Also name calling and making personal attacks as you are doing here are against the rules of the site.



If Satay really feels this is not vaishnav hatered, 1 either he is not vaishnav or 2 he will start a separate forum soon.

Clearly, I don't need your approval to be called a vaishnava eh? :cool:



Trust mods will not delete this post and will reply to this substantiating their stance. I will not post further but will be watching the developments as other deserters, provided my ID is not blocked.

I will leave this for BYS to read and do what he does best.



Ramkish was right in is comments and Pankaja was more right in his opinion

By the way, Ramkish, what you are doing here on this forum, I have done this myself for years on other forums.

You can not fool the master...:D

I will not delete your multiple ids in the hope that you will 1. either stop by yourself or 2. make a fool of yourself and leave.

Thanks,

ps: You might want to talk to Ram about CF to find out more about me if you haven't already...;)

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Thanks Satay for editing

http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=4484&postcount=42

here is the proof of my statement. Original posts can be tracked here http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=288

Let me the first person to voice this up. It is not the members but BYS as a moderator who is spreading Vaishnav Hatered in real.

I repeat again, many members accuse BYS as Shameless for his attitude and behaviour. As Moderators owns this site, I have nothing to say further, for in your house, it is your rules that guides all.

If Satay really feels this is not vaishnav hatered, 1 either he is not vaishnav or 2 he will start a separate forum soon.

Trust mods will not delete this post and will reply to this substantiating their stance. I will not post further but will be watching the developments as other deserters, provided my ID is not blocked.

Ramkish was right in is comments and Pankaja was more right in his opinion

Your attitude is very poor in this post and your accusations are completely bogus. No where have I demonstrated "hatred" for Vaishnavism in the forum. You also cannot even spell the word "hatred" correctly. Additionally, you know nothing about me outside of this forum. I hold a great deal of respect for Vaishnava practices and traditions. I look forward to the Ratha Yatra every year and I participate in Jagannath Puja on a regular basis at a local temple. At least as far as I am aware these are Vaishnava traditions or at least practices that most Vaishnavas would respect. I also never stated that I was not a Vaishnava and if I was a Vaishnava it would seem weird that I would hate Vaishnavas. I have huge respect for the words of Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita as well as strong respect for Sri Krishna. I chant to Krishna on a daily basis. In the Hindu communities I have been involved with, I have never been accused of being anti-Vaishnava and have the respect of many Vaishnavas. So please do not put words in my mouth or accuse me of things you cannot prove.

Obviously what the case here is that a number of Vaishnavas have been a target of my moderation policies simply because they have demonstrated a poor respect for the rules of the discussion board. Simple rules such as keeping a thread on topic and not preaching where it is not appropriate have been consistently violated by a number of Vaishnavas. There are also a number of Vaishnavas on here who have played by the rules and have never been confronted by my moderation policies. I do not allow abusive behavior on this board. Like it or not, the truth is that the only people here that seem to constantly break the site rules by shoving their philosophy down other people's throat when it is A) not in context (off-topic) and B) attacking or showing blatant disrespect for other philosophies happen to be Vaishnavas. Most if not all of these people are not just Vaishnavas but happen to be either followers of ISKCON or share the overwhelming majority of the ISKCON beliefs. We allow people of all traditions including ISKCON to discuss their opinions and understandings of Truth on the board. However, this is a discussion board. It is NOT a preaching board. I have seen the same sales pitch from the same people in multiple threads and multiple forums when it is completely off-topic or otherwise out of line.

Please play by the rules and do not make up ridiculous accusations about me and my personal life. ~BYS~

[Bhakti Yoga Seeker]

Moderator Note:

I don't know about what Satay or Sarabhanga's policies are on multiple ids. Regardless, if I see nonsense where people are creating multiple IDs just to stir up trouble, I will take action including the following: removing ALL the ids that are from the same person, banning the IP address of the individual, and deleting ALL of their posts. This is intended to be a forum for positive Hindu discussion at a mature adult level. It is not fair to other users to have such nonsense and immature games go on and I won't lose any sleep about taking such severe actions.

Do you have any questions or comments about moderation policy? If so, please send a private message to Bhakti Yoga Seeker or contact one of the other administrators of this website. ~BYS~

[satay]

namaste,

The software allows a user to have multiple ids. I could block it from happening by creating a rule in the software but I chose not to do this and left the default setting as it is.

There is no need for anyone to have multiple ids on this forum though I do have a couple of different ids and mainly these are used for testing, administration and moderation etc. activities.

The only reason why someone would create a multiple identity on the board is if they are trying to stir up trouble or have a personal agenda e.g. in this case, the vaishnava in question has a personal agenda of shoving vaishnava philosophy down other members' throrats and the purpose is to do the following:
1. show the mods that more and more vaishnavas are leaving the forum when there are only a couple of people actually acting like 'many' hiding behind many ids.

2. take sides with mods and try to split them by implying they are following different policies - the old divide and conquer rule at work here or at least that what the hope was.

3. work as a group and first make 'innocent' looking posts asking questions about other traditions, then slowly attack them by asking more innocent sounding questions like 'doesn't it mean maya and how can maya be such and such', then attack with another id that acts like a moderate vaishnava showing some respect to other's believes but also attacking them, then try to finish the attack with another id that is conservative, aggressive and rude.

The trick here is that mods will be so focused on the 'aggressive' id that they may not pay attention to the 'mild' and 'friendly' ids as they attack other traditions.

This is all play and games and such people have nothing positive to contribute to the forum in fact the purpose is completely opposite i.e. stir up trouble and watch the show. I am very much familiar with this type of game as I have played it myself on CF and other forums. The purpose there was completely different though and bunch of my close friends and I acted as a group to put an end to the christian abuse of our tradition in their non-christian section. Hindus and Hinduism was being abused while the mods turned a blind eye. It was hard to get hindus onboard so many of us used different ids to show that there were many hindus voicing their concerns and to defeat christian dogma from all sides.

There is no need for vaishnavas or others to play this game here since no one is abusing vaishnava or any other tradition.

Feel free to ban people who you think are doing something along the lines of steps 1 to 3.

Thanks,

[Singhi Kaya]

I create multiple ID's for fun