"The Dangers of Pseudo Advaita"

[Bob G]

An excerpt from, “The Dangers of Pseudo Advaita” by Aziz Kristof, a Non-traditional Advaita Zen Master.

“We would like also to create a few practical anti-pseudo-advaita statements: 'You are not Awakened unless you Awaken!', 'You are not That, unless you reach unity with Universal I AM!', 'There is no Path but only for those who Completed it!', 'There is nobody here, but only when somebody has dissolved! Until that time you are simply a suffering somebody who only tries to believe in being no one or entertains oneself by giving 'satsang.'”

--- 'There is no Path but only for those who Completed it!' ---

Open for question: Is this where J. Krishnamurti mislead others and perhaps himself with his "Pathless" teaching?

Om

[atanu]

An excerpt from, “The Dangers of Pseudo Advaita” by Aziz Kristof, a Non-traditional Advaita Zen Master.

“We would like also to create a few practical anti-pseudo-advaita statements: 'You are not Awakened unless you Awaken!', 'You are not That, unless you reach unity with Universal I AM!', 'There is no Path but only for those who Completed it!', 'There is nobody here, but only when somebody has dissolved! Until that time you are simply a suffering somebody who only tries to believe in being no one or entertains oneself by giving 'satsang.'”

--- 'There is no Path but only for those who Completed it!' ---

Open for question: Is this where J. Krishnamurti mislead others and perhaps himself with his "Pathless" teaching?

Om

Namaste Bob,

These are gems you have posted here. Yet, why should J. Krishnamurty mislead? What he taught might have been for his audience. I do not know?

Usually, the judgements are from those who might not have completed traversing the path. Why can't those judgements themselves be result of eating half cooked food and subsequent indigestion? I am talking generally.

IMO, I am that I am can only be unconditioned (and thus judgement free).

Regards,

Om

[Bob G]

Hello Atanu,

In general, J. K. speaking to and for his own audience was fine from my pov. (and as you imply to me) The problem I have is when reading all of his put-downs about other teachers or people speaking to other audiences about their traditional paths.

"IMO, I am that I am can only be unconditioned (and thus judgement free)"

A good point from you... and although you didn't bring it up I don't think non-judgemental yet also aware of the world can include non-discernment where wisdom prevails, thus there is still a judgement made (so to speak) but from the highest law of Love. Yes?

Om

[atanu]

Hello Atanu,

---A good point from you... and although you didn't bring it up I don't think non-judgemental yet also aware of the world can include non-discernment where wisdom prevails, thus there is still a judgement made (so to speak) but from the highest law of Love. Yes?

Om

Yes. Surely IMO. Thanks and great feeling.

Om

[sm78]

Thanks BoB for pointer to the article, it is quite good. As witnessed also in this forum, advaita need not mean loosing common sense or garbaging a culture or repeating a few verses from upanisads as slogans.

Life of all great teachers were quite the opposite.

[Bob G]

Hello Sm78,

Glad the article was of use to you, and thanks for the reply. :-)

Good day

Om

[Znanna]

Why awaken when sleep feel so good?


ZN/stretching

[atanu]

Yaaah.:sleeping:

Yet, an inability to accept and pronounce in silence a simple Shivoham, is a declaration of presence of a separate being.

Om

[Znanna]

Is "seeking enlightenment" an oxymoron?


ZN
/zzzzzzzzzz

[sarabhanga]

Is "seeking enlightenment" an oxymoron?

Namaste Znanna,

Only when enlightenment is known does the search become redundant.

And anyone who is certain of their own enlightenment has no compulsion to search. But there are many seekers (and many misguided), and there is little value (and indeed very much confusion will result) in simply telling everyone that there is no path worth following and that (whatever they might think) everyone is already enlightened, so just kick back and enjoy! :cool1:

[sarabhanga]

Only when enlightenment is known does the search become redundant.

And anyone who is certain of their own enlightenment has no compulsion to search. But there are many seekers (and many misguided), and there is little value (and indeed very much confusion will result) in simply telling everyone that there is no path worth following and that (whatever they might think) everyone is already enlightened, so just kick back and enjoy!

Every human has the potential of genius from the moment of conception, and every liberated soul will know that it has always been so.

BUT does anyone seriously suggest that since we are all born genii there is no need for any kind of education?

NO jina has ever deny that there was a true path by which his inborn genius was brought to fruition, and every jina is automatically a guru of his path, who leads by his own wise example.

If education excludes dharma, and then those “educated” masses reject dharma as superfluous, and even those who have been raised by dharma dismiss their own mother as a confusing impediment to proper understanding, then the lunatics have taken over the asylum and every problem that humanity faces is only to be expected!

In such a situation, the brahmacArin, through ahiMsA, can only withdraw ~ but simultaneously the avadhUta, through ahiMsAsatyAste, is aroused and compelled to sacred action. The nAgA absolutely defends the dharma that he himself has all but renounced (having incorporated all dharma and washed away all karma), so he has no personal attachment to any actions or their limited results. It is the singular result alone that is ultimately considered.

[atanu]

Is "seeking enlightenment" an oxymoron?

ZN
/zzzzzzzzzz

Namaste ZN,

As per Gaudapada, this is the Jnana. But to unravel this Jnana, which is not absent but hidden, it is hard work to keep the mind and come back to the purity of desirelessness.


YMMV,

Regards

[Znanna]

Namaste,

Apologies if my contrary nature offended any here.

It seems to me, however, that it is counterproductive to "seek a path" which lies beneath ones feet ... one simply needs to walk upon it.

It is remembering what we have chosen to forget which I consider important, which I see as a passive surrender rather than an active endeavour.

Yea, YMMV.


ZN

"One creates from nothing. If you try to create from something, you're just changing something. So in order to create something, you first have to be able to create nothing."

[atanu]

Namaste,
Apologies if my contrary nature offended any here.

It seems to me, however, that it is counterproductive to "seek a path" which lies beneath ones feet ... one simply needs to walk upon it.

It is remembering what we have chosen to forget which I consider important, which I see as a passive surrender rather than an active endeavour.

Yea, YMMV.
ZN

"One creates from nothing. If you try to create from something, you're just changing something. So in order to create something, you first have to be able to create nothing."

Namaste Zn,



I agree, thus I felt that an inability to accept and pronounce in silence a simple Shivoham, is a declaration of presence of a separate being -- and that is counterproductive. Yet the mind needs discipline and purity. Both paths are known and they are appropriate at different stages and for different personalities. There are great negative aspects of trying too hard, in that it may ignite the ego. Similarly there may be pitfalls in surrender method also.

I think that when perfected both methods are the same.


Satapatha Brahmana

11:2:6:13. As to this they ask, 'Who is the better one, the self-offerer, or the god-offerer?' Let him say, 'The self-offerer;' for a self-offerer, doubtless, is he who knows, 'This my (new) body is formed by that (body of Yagña, the sacrifice), this my (new) body is procured thereby.' And even as a snake frees itself from its skin, so does he free himself from his mortal body, from sin; and made up of the Rik, the Yagus, the Sâman, and of offerings, does he pass on to the heavenly world.

11:2:6:14. And a god-offerer, doubtless, is he who knows, 'I am now offering sacrifice to the gods, I am serving the gods,'--such a one is like an inferior who brings tribute to his superior, or like a man of the people who brings tribute to the king: verily, he does not win such a place (in heaven) as the other.

--------------------
When God and Self are known as the same, both approaches are same.

Regards

[sarabhanga]

It seems to me, however, that it is counterproductive to "seek a path" which lies beneath ones feet ... one simply needs to walk upon it.

Namaste Znanna,

The guru is the wise path, and those who feel that they are lost and consequently “seeking a path”, are surely without a true guru!

Once one is actually on a true path, of course there is no question of seeking the path, for the only consideration is attaining the ultimate aim of the path, which is itself pathless and from which point all paths are known (but unrequired).

So there are two kinds of seeker ~ the first in relative darkness, and the second in relative brightness ~ and only the avadhUta advaitin (the perfect saMnyAsin) has found the absolute illumination of advaitam.




It is remembering what we have chosen to forget which I consider important, which I see as a passive surrender rather than an active endeavour.

This is true. :)




One creates from nothing.
If you try to create from something, you're just changing something.
So in order to create something, you first have to be able to create nothing.

nAra imperfectly creates from something, and nArAyaNa perfectly creates from nothing ~ while nara neither creates nor destroys, alone being perfect existence itself.

mAyA = 0 = (+1) + (–1) = 0

satyam = 1 = 1 = 1

[atanu]

Shivam Shubham Shivam

[sm78]

On the same theme ...


My Guru - Paramahamsa Satyananda Sarasvati - an accomplished Tantrik master, was once asked what is his experience now that he is fully realised. His answer was both profound and humorous. He said " I now know that all the practices I did in the past did nothing to result in this realisation of Who am I, . . . (pause) but I could not have had this realisation without having done the practises."

[Bob G]

Hello Sm78,

That was a good one, thanks.

Om