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Hiwaunis
20 February 2008, 10:59 PM
Om Shanti,
In today's world one must work to support themselves and family. The work day is usually between 8 to 12 hours a day. Now days one has to be at work at 7 a.m. There are so many distractions at home it is almost impossible to find several hours of quite time. So how is it possible to achieve jivanmukti in todays world?

Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if we could support and teach our children to achieve this goal? Once achieved by our children they in turn can support the parents while we in turn progress towards jivanmukti.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti
Hiwaunis

sarabhanga
03 March 2008, 03:18 AM
In today’s world one must work to support themselves and family. The work day is usually between 8 to 12 hours a day. Now days one has to be at work at 7 a.m. There are so many distractions at home it is almost impossible to find several hours of quite time. So how is it possible to achieve jivanmukti in todays world?

Wouldn’t it be a wonderful world if we could support and teach our children to achieve this goal? Once achieved by our children they in turn can support the parents while we in turn progress towards jivanmukti.

Namaste Hiwaunis,

jIvanmukti is liberation before death from all liability to future births. And jIvanmukti is attained by samAdhi, which presumes brahmacarya and sannyAsa.

A young brahmacArin who attains samAdhi would go directly to sannyAsa, and no mortal offspring would arise.

The best course is to proceed naturally through all the stages of life, and if moksha is intended then brahmacarya and sannyAsa must be included.

Liberation before death from all liability to future births is not achieved without perfect advaitam, which cannot be maintained in the circumstances of “today’s world” as described above.

yajvan
14 March 2008, 06:08 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Om Shanti,
In today's world one must work to support themselves and family. The work day is usually between 8 to 12 hours a day. Now days one has to be at work at 7 a.m. There are so many distractions at home it is almost impossible to find several hours of quite time. So how is it possible to achieve jivanmukti in todays world?
Hiwaunis

Namaste Hiwaunis,
A very practical question. What is one to do? I look to Vasistha's Yoga ( the conversation of Vasistha with Sri Ram) for some guidence.

He says to Ram :


"there are 4 gatekeepers at the entrance to the realm of Moksha (Liberation or enlightenment) that is: self-control, spirit of enquiry, contentment, and good company (satsang)"
" He who wears the armor of self control is not harmed by sorrows."
Enquiry, the study of the sruti and smurti he says " the intelligence becomes keen and is able to realize the Supreme";
With contentment - "one does not crave" and one that is not content in the SELF will be subjected to sorrow.
Satsang or the company of the wise and enlightened "enlarges ones intelligence" and "is superior to all other forms of religious practice like charity, austerity, pilgrimage, rites, etc".
He concludes by saying " if you cannot practice all 4 , practice one."

For me, I find this wise. As we live in a time that perhaps is not completely conducive to ones spiritual pursuit , but moving forword by doing something positive for ones unfoldment seems a good use of time. My teacher (and many others) suggest well begun is half done.

pranams

Hiwaunis
14 March 2008, 11:02 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Hiwaunis,
A very practical question. What is one to do? I look to Vasistha's Yoga ( the conversation of Vasistha with Sri Ram) for some guidence.

He says to Ram :

"there are 4 gatekeepers at the entrance to the realm of Moksha (Liberation or enlightenment) that is: self-control, spirit of enquiry, contentment, and good company (satsang)"
" He who wears the armor of self control is not harmed by sorrows."
Enquiry, the study of the sruti and smurti he says " the intelligence becomes keen and is able to realize the Supreme";
With contentment - "one does not crave" and one that is not content in the SELF will be subjected to sorrow.
Satsang or the company of the wise and enlightened "enlarges ones intelligence" and "is superior to all other forms of religious practice like charity, austerity, pilgrimage, rites, etc". He concludes by saying " if you cannot practice all 4 , practice one."

For me, I find this wise. As we live in a time that perhaps is not completely conducive to ones spiritual pursuit , but moving forword by doing something positive for ones unfoldment seems a good use of time. My teacher (and many others) suggest well begun is half done.

pranams

"Liberation before death from all liability to future births is not achieved without perfect advaitam, which cannot be maintained in the circumstances of “today’s world” as described above."(Sarabhanga)


Om Shanti,
I certainly agree with what is being stated. The 4 gatekeeper advice definitely seems simple enough. Keeping company of the wise however is quite a challenge. I seem to attract those who are less spiritual. Most of them I don't even know. They always seem to have the need to confide in me. Is it possible to live the life of a sannyasi at the end of an eight hour shift Monday through Friday and weekends? Or is it that interaction alone creates more karmic accounts and thus liability for future births?

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

yajvan
15 March 2008, 08:24 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

"Liberation before death from all liability to future births is not achieved without perfect advaitam, which cannot be maintained in the circumstances of “today’s world” as described above."(Sarabhanga)


Om Shanti,
I certainly agree with what is being stated. The 4 gatekeeper advice definitely seems simple enough. Keeping company of the wise however is quite a challenge. I seem to attract those who are less spiritual. Most of them I don't even know. They always seem to have the need to confide in me. Is it possible to live the life of a sannyasi at the end of an eight hour shift Monday through Friday and weekends? Or is it that interaction alone creates more karmic accounts and thus liability for future births?

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

Namaste Hiwaunis,

Keeping the company of the wise these days, as you have mentioned, is a challenge. If not 'in person' then the next best (IMHO) is by books. The wise and their writings are available. Is this optimal? Perhaps not, but the books are there as friends and stimulates higher thinking.
Also - HDF can also assist with good company.

Also note again IMHO - being sannyasi after 5 pm and weekends may just put a strain on you and that does not contribute to your unfoldment. That said, one can be a sadhaka (sAdhaka):

mrdu
madhya
adhimAtra
adhimAtratamaOne can practice the 8 limbs of yoga before work and after ( asana, meditation¹, pranayama). And during work one can practice ahimsa, asteya ( non stealing) etc. - yama and niyama.

In fact the notion of rest-and-activity is being applied here. the Silence you may achieve during sadhana before going to work can then be applied at work. Like bleaching a cloth in the sun. We hang the sheet out in the daytime - the sun's rays clean and purify the cloth, then we use the cloth as needed.
We then hang the sheet out again and little by little the sun's rays turns the sheet to white over time. Like that ones sadhana has the power to do the same.

pranams

1. Please consider this post for ideas: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18299&postcount=2

saidevo
18 March 2008, 07:58 AM
Namaste Hiwaunis.

One form of 'satsang' in these days is watching videos about spiritual presentations. Here is a 7-part YouTube video on 'The Sage of Kanchi'. I watched the first part: extremely invigorating!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZiCdRKxjw&feature=related'

AchArya and bhArata darshan

Here are the links to all the seven parts of the YouTube video, 'The Sange of Kanchi':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaZiCdRKxjw&feature=related (1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDoRY7Dw80E&feature=related (2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjIT36trPgM&feature=related (3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bipiz3shJ9c&feature=related (4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeFwzjMg5iU&feature=related (5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLa-J8CySWc&feature=related (6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIVExUq1QR8 (7)

Here is a software link that downloads YouTube and Google video files to disk in AVI or FLV format. After downloading, you may suitably rename the file.

http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/guides/dvd/download-YouTube-video-to-pc-computer-hard-drive.htm

yajvan
18 March 2008, 12:18 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Hiwaunis.

One form of 'satsang' in these days is watching videos about spiritual presentations. Here are the links to all the seven parts of the YouTube video, 'The Sange of Kanchi':


Namaste saidevo (et.al)

Thank you also for this link... I have been blessed during my last trip to India to visit the Shankarachara , Sri Jayendra Sara Saraswati Swamigal .
We visited for some time ( ~ 45 min) , answering questions from Swamiji. We then stepped back a foot or two and watched as he conducted his normal affairs.

We then followed him as he did puja for H.H. Jagadguru Shankaracharya Shri Chandrashekarendra Saraswati Swamigal, as he does daily.

I had the great fortune of receiving prasadam from this event. This was only due to the blessings of staying with one of the Brahmins that served both swamiji's ( number 68 and 69) with his stay at Kanchi matha.

After that we sat and listened as the 70th Sankarachara selected , Sankara Vijayentra Saraswati Swamigal, did puja with the same Shiva lingam (लिङ्गं liṅgaṃ) used by Adi Shankachraya.


For this overall experience, I have been blessed and a better person.

ॐनमःिशवाय

pranams,

saidevo
19 March 2008, 11:50 AM
Namaste Yajvan.

It is exhilarating to read about your Acharya and Bhagavat dharshanam at Kanchi. Had I known about your trip, we could have met (I live in a nearby suburb that is practically in the Chennai city area). Of course I am not known by name or person at Kanchi MaTham, but you could have come to our home.

Why don't you give us a write-up of your Bharat pilgrimage? For all the tapa and tApa generated in the intense spiritual discussions here, that could be a cool breeze of inviograting personal experiences!

yajvan
19 March 2008, 05:02 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan.

It is exhilarating to read about your Acharya and Bhagavat dharshanam at Kanchi. Had I known about your trip, we could have met (I live in a nearby suburb that is practically in the Chennai city area). Of course I am not known by name or person at Kanchi MaTham, but you could have come to our home.

Why don't you give us a write-up of your Bharat pilgrimage? For all the tapa and tApa generated in the intense spiritual discussions here, that could be a cool breeze of inviograting personal experiences!

Namaste saidevo,
thank you for your kind offer of visiting your home...
re: my trip - let me collect my thoughts and offer them for ones consideration.


pranams,

yajvan
20 March 2008, 11:31 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Om Shanti,
In today's world one must work to support themselves and family. The work day is usually between 8 to 12 hours a day. Now days one has to be at work at 7 a.m. There are so many distractions at home it is almost impossible to find several hours of quite time. So how is it possible to achieve jivanmukti in todays world?


Namaste,
I was just thinking what dharana can be done during the day? Perhaps while at work? I thought of some of the offerings Bhairva¹ gives to Sri Devi.

In the Vijnana Bhairava the word dharana³ (dhAranA) is not found. Yet people who teach this way use the word to describe the various methods called upadesa or nistaranga upadesha, undistracted instructions. This upadesha is known as spiritual instruction, it also is known as Upaya , or skillful means, technique or way, means of approach.

Bhairava offers 112 of these dhAranAs to Sri Devi. There are several that I think can be done during working hours that would assist in ones shadhana and not disturb work.

So what would be the goal? Centering oneself or madhya = middlemost , intermediate , central, standing between two , impartial , neutral. Over time it blossoms to turiya.

Some of the karaka's are posted and discussed here: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323)


ॐनमःिशवाय


pranams,

1. Bhairava etymology: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52)
2. More on the Vijnana Bhairava HDF posting: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2323)
3. Dharana (dhAranA or धारना )is this fixity or attention , consciousness of a single object, idea, etc. and the other senses are withdrawn i.e. do not apprehend the object/idea at hand. some say one-pointed.

karun
04 April 2008, 10:17 AM
Dear Sirs

Liberation before death from all liability to future births is not achieved without perfect advaitam, which cannot be maintained in the circumstances of “today’s world” as described above.

I never would postpone liberation. If there is 5 minutes time for meditation just do it. if there is 1 hour time for meditation just do it.
shankaracharya says clearly: time and circumstances are secondary. discriminatiion of self and non-self can happen in a taxi.

if you do the first steps, everything else will be allright... if there is a wish for liberation, go for it. i am convinced: it is not far away, because it is your natural state. to be the self is more natural than to be something else....

how about 5 minutes advaita literature and 10 minutes of silence for the beginning? do not believe in the rat race....

all the best
karun

Jigar
04 April 2008, 10:57 AM
Liberation as i understand it is the manifest of obstacles. Referring to a ratty race, ---- The Nose, Knows. Running is not the answer to a problem rather facing your likes is another. Courage is not pourage that come in forms like thin pudding inside/outside the atma

:Enthaleku:

karun
04 April 2008, 02:31 PM
Liberation as i understand it is the manifest of obstacles. Referring to a ratty race, ---- The Nose, Knows. Running is not the answer to a problem rather facing your likes is another. Courage is not pourage that come in forms like thin pudding inside/outside the atma

:Enthaleku:

dear sir
liberation means knowing the self after duly discrimanating it from not self. it means living sat-chit-ananda. by experience. postponing liberation is postponing the self IS!! postponing life.
what i mean is: never wait until you are old and hope for liberation during death. what a waste of life!!!!
hinduism is for life. its more than a beliefe. its amrit, ananda...

regards

soham3
04 April 2008, 11:20 PM
I would suggest the following :-
(1) Keep mentally chanting some mantra that is suitable to you amidst all activities. It could be RAMA, OM , SOHAM et cetera.
(2) Keep mental awareness of the breath and the fact that inhalation is 'SO' & exhalation is 'HAM'.

Arjuna
27 April 2008, 06:01 PM
jIvanmukti is liberation before death from all liability to future births. And jIvanmukti is attained by samAdhi, which presumes brahmacarya and sannyAsa.

Namaste Sarabhanga.

Samadhi is just an experience which is temporal. Jivanmukti is achieved by sajjnana, which is perfect awareness of the fact that everything is Consciousness. Neither brahmacharya (in a sense of celibacy) nor sannyasa are required for this. Brahmacharya and sannyasa are related to the outer, they are parts of laukika-dharma.


A young brahmacArin who attains samAdhi would go directly to sannyAsa, and no mortal offspring would arise.

Have U got any statistics? :D
It may happen as U say or may happen opposite. But going directly to sannyasa is unnatural and essentially non-Vedic. It is also against smriti, which suppose one has responsibilities towards pitris and parents. Maybe in certain cases it is OK, but verily it cannot be put as the only way!


The best course is to proceed naturally through all the stages of life, and if moksha is intended then brahmacarya and sannyAsa must be included.

Moksha is the result of pure awareness, right reason (jnana) and bhakti. As Siva-sutra says, "dhIvashAt sattvasiddhiH". Control of mind brings essential perfection – and not being celibate or feeding on alms ;)


Liberation before death from all liability to future births is not achieved without perfect advaitam, which cannot be maintained in the circumstances of “today’s world” as described above.

Perfect advaita can be achieved in any circumstances, since the Lord is independent and He may grant His grace wherever and whenever. Everything is Consciousness, or as Nigama-Shruti puts it, Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma. So called worldly activity is nothing but the pulsation of the same Spandashakti. Indeed no difference is there between samsara and nirvana :)