yajvan
27 March 2008, 09:21 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabhanga http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=21691#post21691)
Whatever anyone does is no concern of anyone else, unless of course they are causing harm to others, in which case there is a rightful concern. All of this becomes irrelevant in meditation and disappears in samAdhi, but a householder is not expected to remain immersed in abstract devotion to such an extent that he becomes entirely divorced from the world around him!
namaste sarabhanga & all who care to join in
I am not debating what you say is incorrect. I am in hopes to open up the idea a bit more for exploration and gain your and others insights on this matter.
I have thought about this much... this 'harm' by others as it can happen directly or indirectly (and not obvious), yet over time one can measure the impact. Let me offer a few examples to insure I have stated the point:
harm that happens directly - is felt by another physically, mentally, financially e.g. one robs from another, or fights with another. Or my dog bites the mail man, like that there is straight cause and effect that happens in seconds of time.
harm that happens indirectly - I do not take care of myself, and my health problems are then cared for by a 'public' hospital and overall I am increasing the burden on the community in tax dollars.
- Or bad driving. I keep running off the road and smashing my car into a tree. The Insurance Co. fixes the auto, yet the overall 'burden' of cost is spread out to all the insured people of that company. Like that, a cause is there, yet the effect is not immediate to others.If I may, now a bit more esoteric.
Lets say the quality of one's consciousness is less then desirable. It is driven by greed, it tends to be more tamasic in nature. The selection of activities and the 'food' taken in by the mouth, the eyes, the ears, etc. are all unconducive to spiritual growth or even fundamentally just to normal health. These actions seemingly do not directly affect ones neighbor, but overall ( according to my teachings) it affects the total collective consciousness of society.
Is there any support for this? In Chandogya Upanishad we have the Vaishvanara vidya. It guides us with the knowledge that all things are connected together. there is no independent action in this Universe. My teacher has told me this many times and as I look I can see it more and more.
Krsna also says, …unfathomable is the course of action (BG 4.17). That something occurs and we have some difficulty connecting the dots to its origin.
I have the greatest appreciation when Swami Krishnananda said 'everything is all things and anything is everywhere'. Hence every thing is connected , yet we in ignorance , (that would be me) see diversity and multiplicity and the dis-connection.
From my POV this is apUrva, or unseen potency which bring about future events from past actions, either individually or collective actions of a family group or society.
On this earth we are compelled to action ( kriya) . Even in inaction there is action (BG 3.5) Each of our acts influences the total environment. There is no independent action.
So if that is my orientation, what then is the point to be made?
Overall, society can compel, support or impede ones overall spiritual growth by the collective consciousness of the whole.
Overall, we affect this good earth, it weather, its 'feast and famine' times.
That overall, we get what we collectively deserve as a society.
And, that overall we can make a difference by taking care of ourselves to advance the sattva¹ in society, by advancing those satvic and spiritual tendencies in ourselves.
I am of the belief that that the collective consciousness principle is the basis for the results and living conditions we experience in each of the 4 yugas.Any thoughts on this matter are welcomed.
pranams
1. sattva सत्त्व - the quality of purity or goodness; vital breath , life , consciousness , strength of character , strength , firmness , energy , resolution , courage , self-command , good sense , wisdom , magnanimity
~~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarabhanga http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=21691#post21691)
Whatever anyone does is no concern of anyone else, unless of course they are causing harm to others, in which case there is a rightful concern. All of this becomes irrelevant in meditation and disappears in samAdhi, but a householder is not expected to remain immersed in abstract devotion to such an extent that he becomes entirely divorced from the world around him!
namaste sarabhanga & all who care to join in
I am not debating what you say is incorrect. I am in hopes to open up the idea a bit more for exploration and gain your and others insights on this matter.
I have thought about this much... this 'harm' by others as it can happen directly or indirectly (and not obvious), yet over time one can measure the impact. Let me offer a few examples to insure I have stated the point:
harm that happens directly - is felt by another physically, mentally, financially e.g. one robs from another, or fights with another. Or my dog bites the mail man, like that there is straight cause and effect that happens in seconds of time.
harm that happens indirectly - I do not take care of myself, and my health problems are then cared for by a 'public' hospital and overall I am increasing the burden on the community in tax dollars.
- Or bad driving. I keep running off the road and smashing my car into a tree. The Insurance Co. fixes the auto, yet the overall 'burden' of cost is spread out to all the insured people of that company. Like that, a cause is there, yet the effect is not immediate to others.If I may, now a bit more esoteric.
Lets say the quality of one's consciousness is less then desirable. It is driven by greed, it tends to be more tamasic in nature. The selection of activities and the 'food' taken in by the mouth, the eyes, the ears, etc. are all unconducive to spiritual growth or even fundamentally just to normal health. These actions seemingly do not directly affect ones neighbor, but overall ( according to my teachings) it affects the total collective consciousness of society.
Is there any support for this? In Chandogya Upanishad we have the Vaishvanara vidya. It guides us with the knowledge that all things are connected together. there is no independent action in this Universe. My teacher has told me this many times and as I look I can see it more and more.
Krsna also says, …unfathomable is the course of action (BG 4.17). That something occurs and we have some difficulty connecting the dots to its origin.
I have the greatest appreciation when Swami Krishnananda said 'everything is all things and anything is everywhere'. Hence every thing is connected , yet we in ignorance , (that would be me) see diversity and multiplicity and the dis-connection.
From my POV this is apUrva, or unseen potency which bring about future events from past actions, either individually or collective actions of a family group or society.
On this earth we are compelled to action ( kriya) . Even in inaction there is action (BG 3.5) Each of our acts influences the total environment. There is no independent action.
So if that is my orientation, what then is the point to be made?
Overall, society can compel, support or impede ones overall spiritual growth by the collective consciousness of the whole.
Overall, we affect this good earth, it weather, its 'feast and famine' times.
That overall, we get what we collectively deserve as a society.
And, that overall we can make a difference by taking care of ourselves to advance the sattva¹ in society, by advancing those satvic and spiritual tendencies in ourselves.
I am of the belief that that the collective consciousness principle is the basis for the results and living conditions we experience in each of the 4 yugas.Any thoughts on this matter are welcomed.
pranams
1. sattva सत्त्व - the quality of purity or goodness; vital breath , life , consciousness , strength of character , strength , firmness , energy , resolution , courage , self-command , good sense , wisdom , magnanimity