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orlando
17 May 2006, 10:03 AM
Namaste all.
I have a question:do Sri Vaishnavas worship Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra murti?
http://www.isvaranetwork.com/public/catalog/IVG035.jpg

Regards,
Orlando.

Arjuna
17 May 2006, 11:24 AM
Namaste all.
I have a question:do Sri Vaishnavas worship Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra murti?

Namaste,

I suppose no. Cult of Jagannatha was originally Shaiva Tantric cult of Bhairava, traces of which are still extant. Jagannatha was worshipped with 5M, and Shrivaishnava rejects these kind of upacharas (apart from sexual ritual, which is mentioned in Lakshmi-tantra).
Jagannatha-vaishnavism is not connected with any of Vaishnava orthodox sampradayas. In fact, it is a mixture of several systems, including Buddhism.

orlando
17 May 2006, 12:20 PM
Namaste Shri Arjuna,I think that you and me are talking about two different things!
By http://www.stephen-knapp.com/rathayatra_festival_at_jagannath_puri.htm
The Appearance of Lord Jagannatha


The significance of Jagannatha Puri and the story of how the Deities first appeared goes back many hundreds of years to the time of King Indradyumna, who was a great devotee of Lord Vishnu. It is related that one time in his court the King heard from a devotee about an incarnation of Lord Vishnu, named Nila-madhava. (Nila-madhava is the Deity form of Lord Vishnu.) The King very much wanted to see this form of the Supreme and sent many Brahmanas to search for Nila-madhava. All came back unsuccessful except for Vidyapati, who did not come back at all. He had wandered to a distant town which was populated by a tribe of people known as Shabaras of non-Aryan heritage. He had stayed in the house of Visvasu, and later, at Visvasu's request, married his daughter, Lalita.

After some time Vidyapati noticed that Visvasu would leave the house every night and return at noon the next day. Vidyapati asked his wife about this. Though her father had ordered her not to tell anyone, she told Vidyapati that Visvasu would go in secret to worship Nila-madhava. After repeated requests, Vidyapati finally got permission to go see Nila-madhava, only if he went blindfolded. But Vidyapati's wife had bound some mustard seeds in his cloth so that a trail could be left to follow later. When they reached the shrine, Vidyapati saw the Deity Nila-madhava after the Shabara took off the blindfold, and he felt great ecstasy.

The story continues to relate that while Visvasu was out collecting items for worship, Vidyapati saw a bird fall into the nearby lake and drown. The soul of the bird suddenly took a spiritual form and ascended back to the spiritual world. Vidyapati wanted to do the same and climbed the tree to jump in the lake. Then a voice from the sky declared that before he jumped he should tell Indradyumna that he had found Nila-madhava.

When Visvasu returned to worship the Deity, Nila-madhava spoke and said that He had accepted the simple worship from him for so many days, but now He wanted to accept the opulent worship that would be offered by King Indradyumna. When Vidyapati went back to tell the King, Indradyumna immediately went to find Nila-madhava but could not locate Him. So the King arrested Visvasu, but a voice told him to release the Shabara and that he should build a temple on top of Nila Hill where the King would see the Lord as Daru-brahman, the wooden manifestation of the Absolute.

After great endeavor, King Indradyumna built the temple at Sri Kshetra, now known as Jagannatha Puri, and later prayed to Lord Brahma to consecrate it. However, Lord Brahma said that it was not within his power to consecrate the temple since Sri Kshetra is manifested by the Supreme's own internal potency and is where the Lord manifests Himself. So Brahma simply put a flag on top of the temple and blessed it, saying that anyone who from a distance saw the flag and offered obeisances would easily be liberated from the material world. Nonetheless, after much waiting the King became anxious since Nila-madhava had not manifested Himself. Thinking his life was useless, the King decided he should end his life by fasting. But in a dream the Lord said that He would appear floating in from the sea in His form as Daru-brahman.

The King went to the shore and found a huge piece of wood that had the markings of a conch, disc, club, and lotus. This was Daru-brahman. But try as they might, the men could not budge the wood. In a dream the Lord spoke to the King and instructed him to get Visvasu and put a golden chariot in front of Daru-brahman. After doing this and forming a kirtana party to chant the holy names, and praying for Daru-brahman to mount the chariot, Daru-brahman was easily moved. Lord Brahma performed a sacrifice where the present temple now stands and installed a Deity of Lord Narasimhadeva, the Deity that is now on the western side of the temple.

From the wooden Daru-brahman, the King requested many expert carvers to carve the form of the Deity, but none could do so for their chisels immediately broke when they touched the wood. Finally the architect of the demigods, Visvakarma, (some say the Lord Himself) arrived as an old artist, Ananta Maharana, and promised that he would carve the Deity form of the Lord inside the temple in three weeks if the King would allow him to work behind closed doors. But after 14 days the King became very anxious because he could no longer hear the sounds of the carving. Finally he could stand it no more. On the advice of the queen he personally opened the doors of the temple to see what was happening. Then he saw the forms of Lord Jagannatha, Lord Balarama, and Lady Subhadra. But because the King had opened the doors sooner than he was supposed to, the Deities were not completed; Their feet and hands had not yet been carved. Thus, the Supreme manifested Himself in this form.

The King felt he had committed a great offense for having opened the doors before the allotted three weeks had passed, so he decided to end his life. But in a dream Lord Jagannatha told the King that though he had broken his promise, this was just a part of the Supreme's pastimes to display this particular form. The King was told that this form, even though it appeared to be incomplete, was actually the form of the Lord that was meant to be worshiped in this age of Kali-yuga. Occasionally the King could decorate the Deity with golden hands and feet. Yet those devotees filled with love would always see the form of Lord Jagannatha as the threefold bending form of Syamasundara, Krishna, holding a flute. Thus, the Supreme appeared in this form so that people could approach and see Him, especially as He rides through town on the huge carts during the Ratha-Yatra festival.

Regards,
Orlando.

orlando
17 May 2006, 12:22 PM
You wrote "Jagannatha-vaishnavism is not connected with any of Vaishnava orthodox sampradayas. In fact, it is a mixture of several systems, including Buddhism."
Gaudiya-vaishnavas worship Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra.

kimtadbrahma
18 May 2006, 03:12 AM
I recall that Ramanujacharya visited Jagannath Puri and tried to persuade the priests at the temple to accept the Pancharatra rituals of worship, but they refused to change. The worship at the Jagannath mandir is, as you say, very important for the Gaudiya Sampradaya because of Chaitanya's great love for these murtis.

Arjuna
18 May 2006, 05:40 AM
You wrote "Jagannatha-vaishnavism is not connected with any of Vaishnava orthodox sampradayas. In fact, it is a mixture of several systems, including Buddhism."
Gaudiya-vaishnavas worship Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra.

Yes, they do for Chaitanya felt a special affection to that deity and spent the end of his life in Puri.

And yet, the cult of Jagannatha is not based on Gaudiya tradition.

If U are interested to know the truth about Jagannatha cult, there are some academic works published.

Jagannatha was originally a murti of Bhairava, as well as Venkateshvara was an image of Virabhadra. Jagannatha is called Bhairava in orissan scriptures of the cult, and his shakti Vimala is called Bhairavi. And the shrine of Vimala is kept separate since she was offered animal sacrifices (not sure whether this is done nowadays). Jagannatha was worshipped with 5 Tantric upacharas, and in a chamber under altar secret Tantric rituals were conducted. There existed also a dubious practice of annual selection of Jagannatha's bride, who was used then at night in Tantric rites.

Arjuna
18 May 2006, 06:55 AM
Some info is found here:

http://orissagov.nic.in/e-magazine/Orissareview/jul2005/engpdf/shaktism_in_purushattam_khetra.pdf

http://www.geocities.com/swapan1976in/IndianHistory_11.html

http://www.purionline.com/PURI/Temples_of_puri.htm

Arthur Avalon writes:
"I may here mention in this connection that not only are drops of wine sometimes sprinkled on the Prasada (sacred food) at Durga-puja and thus consumed by persons who are not Viracaris, but (though this is not generally known and will perhaps not be admitted) on the Prasada which all consume at the Vaisnava shrine of Jagannatha at Puri."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/sas/sas27.htm

orlando
18 May 2006, 08:22 AM
Thanks you all for the answers!
Again my original question:do Sri Vaishnavas worship Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra murti?

orlando
07 June 2006, 08:26 AM
Namaste all.
Yesterday I sended an e-mail to Shri Mani Varadarajan,the founder of http://www.ramanuja.org/
The first questions is:
Do Sri Vaishnavas worship Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra murti?

Today I did read his answer.He said:
Yes, Sri Vaishnavas do worship Lord Jagannatha. The temple at Puri
is an abhimaana kshetram in the tradition.


Regards,
Orlando.