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yajvan
21 April 2008, 11:18 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste

just thinking again...

There is this notion that our TV signals and radio programs propagate into space and travel a zillion miles. Sooner or later another civilization will pick up our signals and be watching and listening to our broadcasts. While this is most intriguing thought there is some laws of physics that prevent that signal from remaining strong and therefore distinguishable.

As the signal travels out in space the signal gets weaker. That is, the inverse square law applies - at 2X the distance traveled the signal is ~ 1/4th its original strength.

One may visualize this as peaks and valleys of the signal flattening out - it originally looks like a bunch of mountains with its ups-and-downs, and then erodes into looking like a piece of string - straight and with little if any contours to it.

For me viewing this signal it goes from rajas (lots of activity), begins to erode ( tamas) and then returns to sattva, and displays the beautiful principle of sāma, evenness. It retuns back to hūṁ the bija mantra hūṁ of śiva and bhairava ( some write bhairav).

Scientists have found a background hum that pervades the entire sky no matter where they point their radio-telescopes. They say there is no part of the universe that is without the hum, and believes it is the remnants of the big bang. I prefer to think the hūṁ would be there with or without a bang, as the cradle for creation to reside in.

Sound travels though the medium of ākāśa (pure space) , some call the body of Brahman. This sound predicated on the tattva of vāyu is the first to be manifest or unfold from ākāśa, as this ākāśa becomes the first tattva from akṣara ( or the imperishable, the Absolute, paramaśiva).

So some of the original TV programs happened 60± years ago. That means they travelled ~ 60 light years or so. Yet once that got to Pluto, there was not much left in terms of signal strength for another civilization to recognize. And traveling 60 light years - well that’s 0.06% the distance to the other side of our galaxy.

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/2003/28/images/b/formats/web.jpg

pranams

Sagefrakrobatik
14 August 2008, 09:01 PM
For me viewing this signal it goes from rajas (lots of activity), begins to erode ( tamas) and then returns to sattva, and displays the beautiful principle of sāma, evenness. It retuns back to hūṁ the bija mantra hūṁ of śiva and bhairava ( some write bhairav).

Can you explain what all these sanskrit words mean and where do they come from?

yajvan
14 August 2008, 10:09 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~





Can you explain what all these sanskrit words mean and where do they come from?


Namaste Sagefrakrobatik

I will be happy to help, yet I am not certain which words you are interested in ... Are these the ones? Please advise.

rajas
tamas
sattva
principle of sāma, evenness
hūṁ the bija mantra pranams

Sagefrakrobatik
28 August 2008, 04:01 AM
YES Please

yajvan
28 August 2008, 04:48 PM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~


I will be happy to help, yet I am not certain which words you are interested in ...
rajas
tamas
sattva
principle of sāma, evenness
hūṁ the bija mantra
Namaste Sagefrakrobatik

To answer your question, we may need to visit a few schools (darśana-s) of thought on the views of creation and its fabric. So there may be a co-mingling a few ideas, but from this we will be able to understand the subject a bit better in the end.

Some Concepts To Start
The 3 guṇa-s & Sāṁkhya School of Thinking

If we take rajas + tamas + sattva , they are called the 3 guṇa-s. Accordingly everything in nature takes-on these qualities or said another way are made of these elements. All 3 travel together as if a rope made of 3 strands.
Many use this as the example of the 3 guna-s being inter-twined. This does not suggested that the qualities are always 1/3+ 1/3 + 1/3. In fact different entities, have varying amounts of these qualities in them.

These guṇa-s and discussion come out of the Sāṅkhya (some write Sāṁkhya) darśana, from the great muni Kapila. This school looks at creation in two broad stokes, that of Puruṣa ( pure Spirit ) and that of Prakṛiti or matter albeit very refined ( like mind) or gross like a stone.
This Prakṛiti is also known as prādhaṇa¹, the ultimate cause, essence of creation.

The 3 guṇa-s reside in Prakṛiti or said another way Prakṛiti's constitution consists of the 3 guna-s. When they are in equilibrium, not stirring, it is called sāmyāvasthā ~ equilibrium - sameness, sāma.
What makes them stir? Sāṅkhya suggests just the presence of Puruṣa is enough to cause prakṛiti to action. Now there are multiple views of this, and we can leave it for another time, yet it is via Prakṛiti + Puruṣa that creation comes into being.

From this interaction, rajas is stirred and from this the guna-s are activated and manifestation begins. This includes all the elements, the mind, the organs of action, perception, locomotion, etc. All that makes up the objects of perception, and the organs of perception and the cognitive abilities to perceive , the senses.

Now without going overboard on explanations, in the Mahābhārata, the Sāṁkhya darśana is mentioned to have 24, 25 or 26 categories, elements ( some cal tattva-s). We needn't chase this line of thinking now. Its mentioned because the word Sāṅkhya means relating to a number , inferring the number of categories or elements that make up all of creation, manifest and unmanifest.

So now with that foundation , the next post will look at the definitions for the 3 stranded rope, the 3 guṇa-s:
sattva
rajas
tamas

pranams

words used

prādhaṇa प्रधान- the principal or first , chief ;the most important or essential part of anything ; better then superior;
guṇa गुण- a single thread or strand of a cord or twine ; a secondary element , subordinate; Subordinate to what? to Puruṣa
sāṁkhya सांख्य- relating to a number

yajvan
29 August 2008, 10:44 AM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~


the next post will look at the definitions for the 3 stranded rope, the 3 guṇa-s:


Namaste
Now with that foundation from the last post lets take a look at each guna:
sattva
rajas
tamas

A Simplified View

sattva सत्त्व - the quality or principle of purity; true essence rooted in sat - that which really is, entity or existence, essence , the true being or really existent
rajas रजस् - the principle of activity, urgent to act and motivate, to create motion; from ra meaning speed, desire, effecting
tamas तमस्t -he principle of inertness, heaviness , ignorance, darkness; from tam - imovable A More Robust View
Other characteristics, definitions and observations

Sattva - that of balance. We find sattva associated with pleasure, joy, bright, illuminating i.e. laghu or light , easy, not heavy or difficult. This notion of light applies to the mind, as the dawn of wisdom or insight, the power of reflection. It is said the true essence and disposition of mind is balance. And in nature the luminisity and power of refection, light and brightness that allows objects to be seen. Upward motion , explansion, even the upward motion of fire, of brightness.
From a color perspective sattva would be white. From a planet perspective it would be Jupiter, or Guru, that of explansion; or Moon (Chandra¹) that is brightness, agreeable, brillance. The Sun ( Surya ) Is also sattvic as its brillance is unsupassed, but also by its balanced motion.
From a human actions orientation the following are infuenced and created by sattva:
Food - sattva brings sweet and juicy; they give strength, happiness and satisfaction.
And speech - speaking truthfully and avoiding speech that offends comes from sattva.
Self control and purity of thought come from sattva.
Yajña-s¹ performed correctly and with no expecation of reward is of the nature of sattva.

Rajas - the principle of activity. The quality of passion, emotion, affection and energy energy. Yet with rajas one thinks of motion, and motivation i.e. movement. This movement is locomotion in nature and in oursleves ( the ability to move forward physically, emotionally, in a job or career). Stimulation is also associated with rajas as it too is movement of the senses. With rajas the wind blows, fires spread. And within us digestion occurs and 'moves' through the system. Without rajas, sattva and tamas do not move.
From a color perspective rajas would be red; and A planet ( graha) would be Mars (fire) - this graha is 'officially' seen as tamasic yet my view is rago-guna as it is core to passion, anger, all 'motion' elements. Sence rajas motivates the movement of passion, Venus then is aslo rajasik by nature as the pleasures of the senses are stimulated.
From a human actions orientation the following are infuenced and created by rajas:
Rajas gives the following tastes: bitterness, too sour, salty, are pungent, dry and hot.
And speech - those words that are for self gain, ,motivation, and increase are said to be the mode of rajas.
yajña-s¹ performed for some material end, performed out of pride or ostentatiously are of the nature of sattva.
Yet austerities done with pride, to gain favor, repect, or honour are motivated by rajas.

Tamas- that of inertness or passivity. It is opposed to sattva , being heavy compared to sattva's lightness. The tamas also restrains (niyam) or resists rajas.
People then jump to the conclusion that tamas is ~bad~. If so , then how would we stike a match? how would we stop a bike, a car or train? This notion of tamas being unattractive comes from its inertness which is the core quality of sloth, laziness, and ignorance some call it moha¹. Some times we see apathy, indifference and perhaps viṣāda¹.
Yet this tamas introduces sleep - for humans and all creatures on this good earth a time for rest.
From a color perspective tamas would be dark/black. A planet (graha) would be Saturn or Śani the slow moving one. Śani brings delays, obsticles, and the like.
From a human actions orientation the following are infuenced and created by rajas.
Food - tamas brings tasteless food, stale, putrid, unclean or decomposed food.
And in speech - those words that destrory or are condesending are motived by tamas.
Yajña-s¹ performed in definance of the scriptural injunctions with no prasda being distributed, no hymns and no payment to the priests i.e. faithless acts are that of tamas driven actions.
Yet austerities done foolishly, or to destroy or injure others are said to be the mode of tamas.

Some additional thoughts

The 3 guṇa-s are are always in a state of cooperation or competition (some say conflict). Since all three are always present there is no one thing that is purely one guna. Even if something is 99% sattvic, the other 1% must be composed of rajas and tamas for sattva to exist. So the principle is the following: something can be substantionally, or have a majority of one guna, but not 100%.
In people we see these qualities in one's constitution found in Ayurveda. The 3 guna-s that basically create the various body types of pitta, vatta and kapha and their permutations.Kṛṣṇa also tells us in the Bhāgavad gītā¹ that at the core of the 4 fold order or division of society (cātur-varṇyaṁ) is based upon the 3 guṇa-s. That varṇa¹ is the following: brahmaṇa-s, kṣatriya-s, vaiśya-s, and śudra-s.
Yet you have to ask if there are 3 guṇa-s how do you get 4 varṇa? It is based on the 3 guṇa-s primary and secondary combinations. We needn't go to the tertiary or 3rd level because if the 1st and 2nd levels are not possible, the 3 level will not matter.

1. Sattva as primary and rajas as secondary
2. Sattva as primary and tamas as secondary

3. Rajas as primary and sattva as secondary
4. Rajas as primary and tamas as secondary

5. Tamas as primary and sattva as secondary
6. Tamas as primary and rajas as secondary

Note that the 2nd and 5th combinations are not possible due to the drastic contrast of sattva and tamas. This leaves us with 4 possible varṇa that align this way:

brahmaṇa-s : Sattva as primary and rajas as secondary
kṣatriya-s : Rajas as primary and sattva as seconday
vaiśya-s : Rajas as primary and tamas as secondary
śudra-s : Tamas as primary and rajas as secondary I will assume you can read about the the 4 fold order or division of society i.e. brahmaṇa-s, kṣatriya-s, vaiśya-s, and śudra-s and what they do, their roles in society and the like.

Lets stop here for now. We have discussed thr 3 guna-s and some of their properties. Yet in the Bhāgavad gītā¹ Kṛṣṇa informs Arjuna 'be without the 3 guna-s' . For this idea there are multiple posts on HDF. Let me know and I will call them out if requested.

pranams

words used

laghu लघु- light , easy , not heavy or difficult ; causing easiness and relief.
niyam नियम्- to stop hold back, detain
candra चन्द्र- glittering, shining; having the brilliancy or hue; a lovely or agreeable phenomenon of any kind
moha मोह- delusion, swoon, loss of consciousness, fainting , stupefaction, a swoon, darkness of the mind ( thoughts)
viṣāda विषद - this word means yielding poison, poisonous, yet used hear it also means a cloud, as in a could of ignornace or inaction.
Food qualities - from the Bhāgavad gītā chapter 17.
yajña - praise; offering, oblation, sacrifice,worship
Bhāgavad gītā - 4 fold order - Chapt 4, 13th śloka; Be without the 3 guna-s , Chapt 2 45th śloka
varṇa वर्ण - color or variation of color; color then considers species , kind, sort, character, nature, quality, property, class, kula, tribe, order or, caste
prādhaṇa प्रधान- the principal or first, chief; the most important or essential part of anything; better then superior;
guṇa गुण- a single thread or strand of a cord or twine; a secondary element, subordinate; Subordinate to what? To Puruṣa
sāṁkhya सांख्य- relating to a number
hari oṁ हरिॐ

yajvan
30 August 2008, 10:19 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~~



words we are reviewing.
rajas
tamas
sattva
principle of sāma, evenness
hūṁ the bija mantra

Namaste Sagefrakrobatik (et.al)
The next word on the list sāma; sameness - samatva समत्व or equality ; uniform conduct towards; equableness
The following HDF Posts will address this quality and ( I believe) address the initial question asked.
Sameness: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2964&highlight=sameness (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2964&highlight=sameness)
Part and the whole: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1375&highlight=sameness (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1375&highlight=sameness)

pranams

yajvan
31 August 2008, 11:53 AM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~~


words we are reviewing.
rajas
tamas
sattva
principle of sāma, evenness
hūṁ the bija mantra


Namaste Sagefrakrobatik (et.al)
This post completes your request regarding returning back to hūṁ & explaining where this hūṁ comes from.

This means returning back to Śiva/Bhairava, as He is indicated (and resides) in this sound hūṁ. Recall this was the notion offered in the first initial post on this above. A return to the perfect silence of pure consciousness, Śiva.

Let me offer the following - Explaining where hūṁ comes from…
This bīja is outlined in the Varadā tantra¹ . The śloka explains the bīja (seed sound or mantra) of Śiva/Bhairava and is considered Śiva-praṇava, hūṁ.
Hence in the various śastra we find different praṇava. We know in the veda we find oṁ as praṇava; In the Śakta tantra ( that of Śrī Devī) we find hrīṁ, and in the Bhairava tantra we find hūṁ. The following śloka below outlines its 3 components of hūṁ:

Ha śivah kathito devī ū bhairava ihocyate |
Parārtho nādo śabdastu bindurduhkhaharārthakah |
Varmabiijatrayo hyatra kathitastava yatnatah ||

Oh goddess (devi), (the letter) "ha" (ha) is said to be (kathitah) Śiva (śiváh), (while the vowel) "ū" (uu) is said to be (ucyáte) Bhairava (bhairavah) here (ihá). The sound (śábdah) nādá or half-moon (nādáh) signifies (árthah) Pára or Highest (árthah) certainly (tú), (and) bindú or dot (bindúh) means (arthakah) destroyer (hara) of pain (duhkhá). Here (átra) the three (letters) (tráyas) (forming) the armor (varma) seed-mántra (bīja) are spoken (kathitah) to You (táva) diligently and with effort (yatnata-s) indeed (hí) ||
hūṁ is- see the half moon on top with the dot? (the font is Sanskrit 98) It's called Aṇu-nāsika (half-moon with a dot or bindu); when the śloka says The sound (śábdah) nādá or half-moon (nādáh) signifies (árthah) Pára or Highest (árthah) certainly (tú), (and) bindú or dot (bindúh) means (arthakah) destroyer (hara) of pain (duhkhá). It’s a sound that occurs in the head-nasal area sounding like ng resonating, more or less.

So what does this say - this hūṁ is Śiva-praṇava. Praṇava¹ is to praise, and that which rennovates throughly. It is the destroyer (hence Bhairava¹ is considered) of pain and forming armor to protect the aspirant. One can ask, what is the greatest pain? Birth and death , saṁsāra ( to flow together - birth after birth). And to leave this saṁsāra we are instructed by Kṛṣṇa ' be without the 3 guna-s ' from the posts reviewed above. Hence if you are not within the 3 guna-s you are residing in pure consciousness, resting in the SELF, the ātman.

ॐमहेश्वरायनमः
oṁ maheśvarāya namaḥ
words and references

varadā वरदा - guardian, Goddess; also varada वरद is granting wishes, conferring a boon, ready to fulfil requests or answer prayers.
Varadā tantra - 6th Chapter - I am still looking for the this total book vs. parts.
Praṇava - praṇu (pra-nu) - 'to sound loudly' or 'to praise greatly'. It appears in the Rigveda, the Brahmanas and Upanishads; Throughout the Vedas, the term praNava (or praNavaka) implies the ekAkshara praNava , oṁ ॐ; We also find Praṇava in the tantra-s as mentioned above in the post.

Resources:

Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa This is the work of Abhinavagupta - Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa -or- That (Śrī Devī) who transcends and is Identical with trika. It also means That which speaks out (kāyati) the three (tri) śakti-s (śa) of the Supreme (parā). Vivaraṇa means the act of uncovering, opening, or explanation
Mālinī vijayayottara tantra ( Trika school of thinking) - the Goddess (Mālinī) who comes into being as the succession of phonemes; It said the title says the following - The teaching which decends uttarati or flows from all streams of scrpiture by the victory i.e. vijayena of all-transcendence who is of the phoneme sequence fom na to pha because it is the essense of all scriptures.
Mālinī at is root is mal or to hold or possess, support. Mālinī holds and supports the Universe.
Sanscrit and Sanscrito Reference site : www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com (http://www.sanskrit-sanscrito.com/)
Additional HDF Posts:
Praṇava http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2857&highlight=pranava (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2857&highlight=pranava)
O Bhairavi, by uttering the pranava: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18487&postcount=8 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=18487&postcount=8)
More on Bhairava: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52)

Sagefrakrobatik
13 September 2008, 11:24 AM
Thanks for the detailed explaination!!

Sagefrakrobatik
13 September 2008, 12:00 PM
Let me get this straight so your saying that when these signals travel they are very active then they start to be come less active and erode eventually become even. and that the sound of the universe is the return to Bhavira?

Im confused i when I read about the three gunas I thought they were

Goodness
Passion
Ignorance

How is Goodness related to activity, Passion to Erosion and Ignorance to the other descriptions you gave me?

yajvan
13 September 2008, 04:54 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Let me get this straight so your saying that when these signals travel they are very active then they start to be come less active and erode eventually become even. and that the sound of the universe is the return to Bhavira?

Im confused i when I read about the three gunas I thought they were

Goodness
Passion
Ignorance

How is Goodness related to activity, Passion to Erosion and Ignorance to the other descriptions you gave me?

Namaste Sagefrakrobatik
I hope I am not contributing to your confusion. Lets see if I can confirm a few things.

With the signal strength - that was the beginning of the conversation. Over time these signals just dissipate, I used 'flat line' as an example. Perfect rest is another way of saying , perfect calm-ness, another way of returning to Śiva/Bhairava. The energetic state (śakti) becomes completely rested, and returns to that calm. Just as this whole creation will do or has done in the past. So there is no discrepancy in what you said above.
Now that sound I offered hūṁ, is the bīja sound of Bhairava. It was my intention to put a 'form', a sound to Bhairava, so I offered the bīja. I thought it may add value - and I explained where the sound originated and its meaning.
Next - the 3 guna-s. your notion of ' goodness-passion-ignorance' is directionally correct, yet is too constraining for these 3 modes to explain creation at large. That is, if I were in an elevator and had 5 seconds between floor 10 and 11 to explain the 3 guna-s, then one may say 'goodness-passion-ignornance' and that may work, yet it does not fit the bill.

My explanation is for a discussion over a cup of tea or coffee. I offered 3 flavors of the 3 guna-s to assist with your comprehension. These views are considered 'standard issue' when talking of the tri-guna. The definitions are more robust and we can even go deeper and wider, yet this will not solve (I think) your brain cramp that you are experiencing today. Let me stop here and ask, if you left your notions on the side just for the time being i.e. 'goodness-passion-ignorance' did you have an appreciation of what was written on the 3 guna-s? Did you 'get' the definitions? If so , we can try and fit them to your framework, yet it is key that the following is understood:


sattva सत्त्व - the quality or principle of purity; true essence rooted in sat - that which really is, entity or existence, essence , the true being or really existent
rajas रजस् - the principle of activity, urgent to act and motivate, to create motion; from ra meaning speed, desire, effecting
tamas तमस् - the principle of inertness, heaviness , ignorance, darkness; from tam - immovable One could say

sattva ~ to goodness
rajas ~ to passion
tamas ~ ignoranceBut that is not the whole story.

As sattva brings balance and purity (some may then say hummm you mean 'goodness') - as goodness is fueled by this quality, but is not perfectly aligned to the 'purity' quality and balance sattva offers as an ingredient.
Rajas brings motion, activity, motivation, ( some may say 'ahha you mean 'passion' ). Since passion is active , it too is fueled by rajas but rajas is more then passion. It fuels energy, motivation, and is an ingredient in locomotion, of moving forward. It is connected to desire, and desire is connected to passion. Yet as you can see 'passion' does not tell the whole story.
And tamas brings inertness, heaviness (some would call 'ignorance') as ignorance is fueled by this quality. Yet again, it does not tell the whole story. Some people think ignorance is the absence of knowledge ( not being dumb, but lack of knowledge). Yet tamas is much more then ignorance, but it contributes to it. Heaviness of iron would be predominantly tamas, yet to relate it to ignorance would be a long shot, ( possible), but still a convoluted way of looking at the metal.See my point? Constraining the 3 guna-s to 'goodness-passion-ignorance' limits their definition and does not tell the whole story.

Hope this helps.

pranams