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Arjuna
22 May 2008, 11:00 AM
http://images.exoticindiaart.com/hindu/exile_in_the_forest_hc42.jpg

yajvan
22 May 2008, 12:05 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Arjuna,
I see your point.

A most wonderful picture...always find the good - note Sri Ram wears the marks of Siva!

Arjuna
22 May 2008, 02:21 PM
A most wonderful picture...always find the good - note Sri Ram wears the marks of Siva!

Yes, i have seen that :)

BTW acc to Mahabharata Krishna was initiated into Pashupatism, i. e. he also was a Shaiva.

Baobobtree
22 May 2008, 05:00 PM
Aum Namah Shivaya, Arjuna.

What exactly are you trying to say by posting this picture?

saidevo
22 May 2008, 08:42 PM
Namaste Arjuna.

Please post the source link of this picture.

dhruva023
22 May 2008, 11:16 PM
Aum Namah Shivaya, Arjuna.

What exactly are you trying to say by posting this picture?

He is trying to justify his non-vegetarianism.

Arjuna
23 May 2008, 01:41 AM
2 Saidevo: I wonder why U cannot check it Urself, it's very easy in every web-browser. Anyway, please: http://images.exoticindiaart.com/hindu/exile_in_the_forest_hc42.jpg

2 Dhruva: I don't need to justify my non-vegetarianism that too with Vaishnava pictures, since neither Veda nor Shaiva-agama prohibit meat. But some people here wondered when i said once that both Rama and Krishna were meat-eaters. This is to justify THIS point, which is in perfect accordance with Hindu tradition.

saidevo
23 May 2008, 02:39 AM
Namaste Arjuna.

Thanks for the link, but one snag. Though this specific picture link is accessible from my system in India, for the parent links including the http://images.exoticindiaart.com/ or its homepage, I only get the message "This Site is currently unavailable..." Did I miss anything?

devotee
23 May 2008, 05:19 AM
Though this specific picture link is accessible from my system in India, for the parent links including the http://images.exoticindiaart.com/ or its homepage, I only get the message "This Site is currently unavailable..." Did I miss anything?

Yes, the homepage is returning an error. Moreover, who is the artist of this great picture ? What is its authenticity ?


I don't need to justify my non-vegetarianism that too with Vaishnava pictures, since neither Veda nor Shaiva-agama prohibit meat. But some people here wondered when i said once that both Rama and Krishna were meat-eaters. This is to justify THIS point, which is in perfect accordance with Hindu tradition.

Dear Arjuna,

I wonder why you are so deperate to show what is in line with Hinduism & what is not, when you are not a Hindu ? You cannot understand Hinduism in this manner. Finding one line from one text & the other from other text will only confuse you & the others. The Augadhs are Hindus too. They spent their nights in the cremation ground & eat flesh of the dead. So, all Hindus should do the same ? BTW, they are Shaivas. You claim to be Shaiva too (a shaiva who is not a HIndu !). Why don't you start eating corpses just like them ?

Why am I writing this ? You are violating the basic principle which all Hindus observe. Everything is divine for Hindus. There is nothing which is right or wrong in absolute sense. However, a certain thing will be correct for one path & may be totally unacceptable for the other path. Hindus will accept both the paths with full respect. Please don't try to see it with the eyes of a Christian or a Muslim.

You are hurting those Hindus who are strict vegetarians & consider eating meat as next to crime. The worst thing in Hinduism is to hurt other's sentiments. And I am sorry to say that this is what I find you doing all the time on different forums. I am not saying that Rama didn't eat meat or he ate meat. There is nothing mentioned in Ramayana regarding his being a non-vegetarian. Though, I believe that he might be eating meat otherwise it would have been difficult for him to go for killing golden antelope just for its skin, but that is just an extrapolation. Why to hurt other's sentiments ?

The picture you have posted cannot have been drawn by Maharishi Valmiki or anyone from his period. Or is it ? Moreover, even if it is proved that Rama was a meat eater, how is it spiritually helpful to you or anyone here on this forum ?

You mentioned Krishna too. Where did you find that Krishna was a meat eater ? Please enlighten me.

OM

Arjuna
23 May 2008, 06:14 AM
Namaste Arjuna.

Thanks for the link, but one snag. Though this specific picture link is accessible from my system in India, for the parent links including the http://images.exoticindiaart.com/ or its homepage, I only get the message "This Site is currently unavailable..." Did I miss anything?

http://www.exoticindiaart.com/

Everything's working, no probs. Try.

Arjuna
23 May 2008, 06:31 AM
You are violating the basic principle which all Hindus observe. Everything is divine for Hindus. There is nothing which is right or wrong in absolute sense.
...
You are hurting those Hindus who are strict vegetarians & consider eating meat as next to crime.

Namaste Devotee.

Why don't U say to those who "consider eating meat as next to crime" that "everything is divine for Hindus" and "there is nothing which is right or wrong in absolute sense"?
I am not saying U or anyone SHOULD eat meat. Have U seen such a statement from me ever? I say that one MAY eat meat and be a Hindu. Which is in accordance with UR OWN STATEMENT cited above.
It is astonishing how much people feel uneasy when certain things are pointed at.

Whether i am Hindu or not depends on Ur or others definition of the term. The word Hinduism is invention of Persians by the way. I prefer to say i am Shaiva, this word is Agamic and not foreign.

Regarding Krishna, Mahabharata mentions this stuff, as well as some Puranas. He was a kshatriya as Rama was, no wonder a non-vegetarian.

I don't wish to argue, please allow me not to proceed. My point is clear i guess.

devotee
23 May 2008, 07:14 AM
Namaste Arjuna,


Why don't U say to those who "consider eating meat as next to crime" that "everything is divine for Hindus" and "there is nothing which is right or wrong in absolute sense"?

Did they say anything to hurt you ?


I say that one MAY eat meat and be a Hindu.

You are right. But when someone doesn't like it, why press on this point ?


Regarding Krishna, Mahabharata mentions this stuff, as well as some Puranas. He was a kshatriya as Rama was, no wonder a non-vegetarian.

I don't remember reading anywhere about Krishna eating meat. Please mention the sources if you know. Again, Krishna was raised in a Yadava family & not Kashtriya family. Where you found this text that he was a meat eater is not clear to me. Moreover, where is it written that all Kashtriyas ate meat ?

What I want to request to you is that please keep discussions limited to things which are valuable for spiritual uplifting. Please remember that today majority of Hindus (even those who eat meat) consider meat eating a hinderance on the path of spirituality. Hurting any animal for food when other alternatives are available cannot be justified. Hunting animals for food may be prevalent & may be a necessity in Rama's time but is it justified today ?

OM

ohmshivaya
23 May 2008, 07:59 AM
Namaste Arjuna.

Thanks for the link, but one snag. Though this specific picture link is accessible from my system in India, for the parent links including the http://images.exoticindiaart.com/ or its homepage, I only get the message "This Site is currently unavailable..." Did I miss anything?

This is online shop selling Indian handicrafts patronized by westerners (and most probably set up by some westerners). None of their artwork is antique, or 'original' to mean ''ancient'' Indian artwork. They are done by local artists, sometimes after they are given specific designs by the sellers based on their customer demands in Europe and US.

One should not take the art sold in this online shop as part of ancient Indian 'history' or the 'representation' of ancient India.

ohmshivaya
23 May 2008, 08:05 AM
[quote=devotee;23007]Yes, the homepage is returning an error. Moreover, who is the artist of this great picture ? What is its authenticity ?


/quote]


This is an online ship that sells Indian handicrafts to customers mostly in the west, especially Europe. None of the products on this shop is antiquate or "ancient". The artwork is by modern artists, and if specific themes are popular among western buyers, then the theme will be replicated. The themes do not necessarily portray Indian history, nor necessarily derive their theme from the Indian scriptures.

ohmshivaya
23 May 2008, 08:13 AM
2 Saidevo: I wonder why U cannot check it Urself, it's very easy in every web-browser. Anyway, please: http://images.exoticindiaart.com/hindu/exile_in_the_forest_hc42.jpg

2 Dhruva: I don't need to justify my non-vegetarianism that too with Vaishnava pictures, since neither Veda nor Shaiva-agama prohibit meat. But some people here wondered when i said once that both Rama and Krishna were meat-eaters. This is to justify THIS point, which is in perfect accordance with Hindu tradition.

To substantiate your 'argument' about historical characters, you use 'modern' art? None of these paintings, nor necessarily their themes, are ancient. This is an online shop peddling Indian art to customers mostly based in the west. Mmm...that doesn't seem 'scholarly.'

By the way, you haven't gone and signed up for their 'affliate program' have you? You know, you provide the link to their store, and someone enters their online shop through your link and happen to buy something online, you end up getting 15% commission? I'm wondering why all of a sudden, you are putting up "artwork" by online shops.

Arjuna
23 May 2008, 09:36 AM
This is online shop selling Indian handicrafts patronized by westerners (and most probably set up by some westerners). None of their artwork is antique, or 'original' to mean ''ancient'' Indian artwork. They are done by local artists, sometimes after they are given specific designs by the sellers based on their customer demands in Europe and US.

One should not take the art sold in this online shop as part of ancient Indian 'history' or the 'representation' of ancient India.

This picture is obviously traditional, i think it's kangra style but i may mistake. Nothing of this sort is produced neither by indians nowadays nor by westerners.

satay
23 May 2008, 09:48 AM
Namaskar,

I would have to agree with devotee's point of view. I was a meat eater previously, I don't see why meat eaters have to keep trying to prove anything.

Arjuna, why trying so hard to justify your meat eating tradition or habit?....

besides I don't see anyone in the picture 'eating' meat! :rolleyes:

and again, you simply googled the picture without looking/questioning/studying the source of information just like you did previously by posting stuff from anti hindu sites.

Give it a rest. Who cares if you eat meat or not?

ohmshivaya
23 May 2008, 10:43 AM
This picture is obviously traditional, i think it's kangra style but i may mistake. Nothing of this sort is produced neither by indians nowadays nor by westerners.

I perhaps shouldn't even bother to respond to the above remarks, but somehow feel compelled to write this, lest some other poor, naive soul reading your posts is led up to the dark alley with song and dance.

This is the declaration by the company itself, under the FAQ. I've highlighted the line that discloses the 'antiquated' nature of their products sold online in blue.




Q. What do you mean by 'antiquated'? Are they antiques? Do you deal in antiques?

A. The Government of India does not allow for the sale of any article more than 100 years old outside India. We do not deal in antiques. The antiquated artworks are artworks which are provided an old look about them by the artist. In most cases they are no older than 20 to 30 years.


They may use the 'Kangra' or any other older style of painting, but that doesn't mean the paintings themselves are old, or their themes exact reproductions of ancient themes. I think it is quite common knowledge that the artwork sold nowadays in shops, or anywhere, just replicate the techniques or styles from the various old schools of art (e.g., Jaipur, Bikaner,or Mewar schools of miniature paintings from Rajasthan, or the famous Tanjore school of art featuring Indian gods and goddess).

Arjuna
23 May 2008, 11:42 AM
Namaskar,

I would have to agree with devotee's point of view. I was a meat previously, I don't see why meat eaters have to keep trying to prove anything.

Arjuna, why trying so hard to justify your meat eating tradition or habit?....

besides I don't see anyone in the picture 'eating' meat! :rolleyes:

and again, you simply googled the picture without looking/questioning/studying the source of information just like you did previously by posting stuff from anti hindu sites.

Give it a rest. Who cares if you eat meat or not?

As usual Satay, nothing to say on the point but U cannot keep silent :D
Rama ate meat, what's the problem to U?
And I do not see myself on the pic though. Do U? ;)

satay
23 May 2008, 03:32 PM
namaskar,


Rama ate meat, what's the problem to U?
;)

I don't see Rama eating meat in the pic. Do you? :cool1:

The picture you googled and posted here is not a real depiction of Hinduism as quoted on their own site. The source is not authentic hindu organization. And on top of that the picture itself doesn't prove that Rama ate meat. It doesn't show him eating meat! In fact, the lady depicted as Sita is holding a leaf in a manner of offering it to the person depicted as Rama. Why she is not holding a piece of meat and offering to Rama? Why leaf?

Lastly, no one cares if you eat meat and you don't have to justify your meat eating habit or practice by posting any piece of artwork done by your regular james or william or a John or a Tom or a Dick or a Mary or any other non-hindu.

Please continue eating meat and concentrate on your sadhana.:D

sm78
25 May 2008, 11:47 PM
namaskar,



I don't see Rama eating meat in the pic. Do you? :cool1:

The picture you googled and posted here is not a real depiction of Hinduism as quoted on their own site. The source is not authentic hindu organization. And on top of that the picture itself doesn't prove that Rama ate meat. It doesn't show him eating meat! In fact, the lady depicted as Sita is holding a leaf in a manner of offering it to the person depicted as Rama. Why she is not holding a piece of meat and offering to Rama? Why leaf?

Lastly, no one cares if you eat meat and you don't have to justify your meat eating habit or practice by posting any piece of artwork done by your regular james or william or a John or a Tom or a Dick or a Mary or any other non-hindu.

Please continue eating meat and concentrate on your sadhana.:D

Meat eating is very much a thing to do for Khastriyas. Why so much argument ?? I don;t understand why we become so much sentimental on this rather trivial issue.

The problem is we don't look at issues by varna,sampradaya and adhikara bheda. As devotee said, nothing is absolutely true, including vegitarianism or being a non-veg.

satay
26 May 2008, 08:30 AM
Namaskar Singhi,


Meat eating is very much a thing to do for Khastriyas. Why so much argument ?? I don;t understand why we become so much sentimental on this rather trivial issue.


Thanks Singhi. Yes, I know that.

The argument is not over if 'hindus or khastriyas can eat meat or not' or 'if animal sacrifices are allowed or not',
my argument is over 'copying unauthentic material from anti hindu sites to justify the two'.




The problem is we don't look at issues by varna,sampradaya and adhikara bheda. As devotee said, nothing is absolutely true, including vegitarianism or being a non-veg.

Quite simply, Hindus are not buddhists or jainis who are so sentimental about such things.

Hiwaunis
26 May 2008, 04:10 PM
Hunting animals for food may be prevalent & may be a necessity in Rama's time but is it justified today ?

OM

Om Shanti,
I thought Ram was given special knowledge so that he would have control over hunger and thirst. Is it not true that Ram represents the ideal human being? Wasn't this one of the reasons for Vishnu's incarnation?

I found this website with a great article on Ahimsa which will add value to this conversation; (www.neoalpineyoga.ca/news_focus.html (http://www.neoalpineyoga.ca/news_focus.html)). I only cut and paste some of the article being that it is quite long.

Tina's Focus of the Month AHIMSA

The first step in Patanjali's System of Ashtanga Yoga is ahimsa, which means non-harming. When you are Self confident the need to hurt, humiliate or kill another being is absent.
Only a person with low self-esteem would harm another to feel better about themselves. Self-esteem and self-confidence are the result of Yoga practice, and they have their highest manifestation in Samadhi.

Vegetarianism is the main tenet of ahimsa. You simply cannot intend to eat another being without harming them first.

A vegetarian diet uses up the least amount of natural resources and so causes the least amount of harm to the whole planet.

The more you practice ahimsa, the closer you come to the realization of your true nature: that which is peaceful and free of debilitating internal conflicts.
Many people have difficulty accepting the idea of a vegetarian lifestyle as intrinsic to the practice of yoga asana. To practice asana really means to practice perfecting your relationship to Mother Earth and all her manifestations.
The Sanskrit word "asana" means seat or connection to the earth. Earth means all things: animals, plants, minerals--all of existence. The Yoga Sutras States STHIRAM SUKHAM ASANAM. (2.46) This means that your connection to the earth should be steady and joyful.
Yoga has been called the perfection of action. All actions originate as thoughts, so a perfect action must come from perfect thought. What is a perfect thought? A perfect thought is one that is free from selfish desires, anger and hate. We return to AHIMSA as the means to perfect action. See yourself in others, all others and go beyond seeing. BE yourself in others until there are no others, until there is only LOVE, only ONE. THE STATE OF ONENESS IS YOGA
From The Textbook of Yoga Psychology
-Shri Brahmananada Sarasvati

Himsa (harming) is classified in three divisions:
Physical, by body and instruments including war.
Vocal, by speaking against others, including psychological warfare.
Mental, by thinking against others.

Himsa is to act against, to speak against, or to think against oneself or others. To injure oneself or others in any form is himsa. It includes use of narcotics and all other substances injurious to body tissue. Abstention from all types of injury is called Ahimsa.
This term is used without adjective; it includes every type of injury because it is used in a
broad sense.

One cannot injure others without first injuring oneself because injury is the result of psychological planning. Vocal injury is more serious than physical, and mental injury is most serious. By physical injury one can destroy only physical forms. By vocal injury one can destroy both physical and mental forms. By mental injury one can destroy even the form of spirit. Consequently one will go to a lower transmigration.

INTRODUCTION

In the regeneration and divinisation of man, the first step is to eliminate his beastly nature. The predominant trait in beasts is cruelty. Therefore, wise sages prescribe Ahimsa (non-injury). This is the most effective master-method to counteract and eradicate completely the brutal, cruel Pasu-Svabhava (bestial nature) in man.
Practice of Ahimsa develops love. Ahimsa is another name for truth or love. Ahimsa is universal love. It is pure love. It is divine Prem. Where there is love, there you will find Ahimsa. Where there is Ahimsa, there you will find love and selfless service. They all go together.

The one message of all saints and prophets of all times and climes, is the message of love, of Ahimsa, of selfless service. Ahimsa is the noblest and best of traits that are found expressed in the daily life and activities of perfected souls. Ahimsa is the one means, not only to attain Salvation, but also to enjoy uninterrupted peace and bliss. Man attains peace by injuring no living creature.

There is one religion - the religion of love, of peace. There is one message, the message of Ahimsa. Ahimsa is a supreme duty of man.

Ahimsa, or refraining from causing pain to any living creature, is a distinctive quality emphasized by Indian ethics. Ahimsa or non-violence has been the central doctrine of Indian culture from the earliest days of its history. Ahimsa is a great spiritual force.

MEANING OF AHIMSA
Ahimsa or non-injury, of course, implies non-killing. But, non-injury is not merely non-killing. In its comprehensive meaning, Ahimsa or non-injury means entire abstinence from causing any pain or harm whatsoever to any living creature, either by thought, word, or deed. Non-injury requires a harmless mind, mouth, and hand.

Ahimsa is not mere negative non-injury. It is positive, cosmic love. It is the development of a mental attitude in which hatred is replaced by love. Ahimsa is true sacrifice. Ahimsa is forgiveness. Ahimsa is Sakti (power). Ahimsa is true strength.

SUBTLE FORMS OF HIMSA
Only the ordinary people think that Ahimsa is not to hurt any living being physically. This is but the gross form of Ahimsa. The vow of Ahimsa is broken even by showing contempt towards another man, by entertaining unreasonable dislike for or prejudice towards anybody, by frowning at another man, by hating another man, by abusing another man, by speaking ill of others, by backbiting or vilifying, by harbouring thoughts of hatred, by uttering lies, or by ruining another man in any way whatsoever.

All harsh and rude speech is Himsa (violence or injury). Using harsh words to beggars, servants or inferiors is Himsa. Wounding the feelings of others by gesture, expression, tone of voice and unkind words is also Himsa. Slighting or showing deliberate discourtesy to a person before others is wanton Himsa. To approve of another's harsh actions is indirect Himsa. To fail to relieve another's pain, or even to neglect to go to the person in distress is a sort of Himsa. It is the sin of omission. Avoid strictly all forms of harshness, direct or indirect, positive or negative, immediate or delayed. Practice Ahimsa in its purest form and become divine. Ahimsa and Divinity are one.

AHIMSA, A QUALITY OF THE STRONG

If you practice Ahimsa, you should put up with insults, rebukes, criticisms and assaults also. You should never retaliate nor wish to offend anybody even under extreme provocation. You should not entertain any evil thought against anybody. You should not harbour anger. You should not curse. You should be prepared to lose joyfully even your life in the cause of Truth. The Ultimate Truth can be attained only through Ahimsa.

Ahimsa is the acme of bravery. Ahimsa is not possible without fearlessness. Non-violence cannot be practiced by weak persons. Ahimsa cannot be practiced by a man who is terribly afraid of death and has no power of resistance and endurance. It is a shield, not of the effeminate, but of the potent. Ahimsa is a quality of the strong. It is a weapon of the strong. When a man beats you with a stick, you should not entertain any thought of retaliation or any unkind feeling towards the tormentor. Ahimsa is the perfection of forgiveness.
Remember the noble actions of great sages of yore. Jayadeva, the author of Gita-Govinda, gave large and rich present to his enemies who cut off his hands, and obtained Mukti (liberation) for them through his sincere prayers. He said: "O my lord! Thou hast given Mukti to Thy enemies, Ravana and Kamsa. Why canst Thou not give Mukti to my enemies now ?" A saint or a sage possesses a magnanimous heart.

Pavahari Baba carried the bag of vessels and followed the thief saying: "O Thief Narayana! I never knew that You visited my cottage. Pray accept these things." The thief was quite astonished. He left off his evil habit from that very second and became a disciple of Pavahari Baba.

Remember the noble actions of saints like Jayadeva and Pavahari Baba, you will have to follow their principles and ideals.

GRADATIONAL PRACTICE OF AHIMSA
When thoughts of revenge and hatred arise in the mind, try to control the physical body and speech first. Do not utter evil and harsh words. Do not censure. Do not try to injure others. If you succeed in this by practice for some months, the negative thoughts of revenge, having no scope for manifesting outside, will die by themselves. It is extremely difficult to control such thoughts from the very beginning without having recourse to control of the body and speech first.

First control your physical body. When a man beats you, keep quiet. Suppress your feelings. Follow the instructions of Jesus Christ in his Sermon On The Mount: "If a man beats you on one cheek, turn to him the other cheek also. If a man takes away your coat, give him your shirt also." This is very difficult in the beginning. The old Samskaras (impressions) of revenge, of "a tooth for a tooth", "tit for tat", "an eye for an eye", and "paying in the same coin" will all force you to retaliate. But you will have to wait cooly. Reflect and meditate. Do Vichara or right enquiry. The mind will become calm. The opponent who was very furious will also become calm, because he does not get any opposition from your side. He gets astonished and terrified also, because you stand like a sage. By and by, you will gain immense strength. Keep the ideal before you. Try to get at it, though with faltering steps at first. Have a clear-cut mental image of Ahimsa and its immeasurable advantages.

After controlling the body, control your speech. Make a strong determination, "I will not speak any harsh word to anybody from today". You may fail a hundred times. What does it matter ? You will slowly gain strength. Check the impulse of speech. Observe Mouna (silence). Practice Kshama or forgiveness. Say within yourself: "He is a baby-soul. He is ignorant, that is why he has done it. Let me excuse him this time. What do I gain by abusing him in return ?" Slowly give up Abhimana (ego-centred attachment). Abhimana is the root-cause of human sufferings.

Finally go to the thoughts and check the thought of injuring. Never even think of injuring anyone. One Self dwells in all. All are manifestations of One God. By injuring another, you injure your own Self. By serving another, you serve your own Self. Love all. Serve all. Hate none. Insult none. Injure none in thought, word and deed. Try to behold your own Self in all beings. This will promote Ahimsa.

BENEFITS OF THE PRACTICE OF AHIMSA
If you are established in Ahimsa, you have attained all virtues. Ahimsa is the pivot. All virtues revolve around Ahimsa. Just as all footprints are accommodated in those of the elephant, so also do all religious and ethical rules become merged in the great vow of Ahimsa.
Ahimsa is soul-force. Hate melts in the presence of love. Hate dissolves in the presence of Ahimsa. There is no power greater than Ahimsa. The practice of Ahimsa develops will-power to a considerable degree. The practice of Ahimsa will make you fearless. He who practices Ahimsa with real faith, can move the whole world, can tame wild animals, can win the hearts of all, and can subdue his enemies. He can do and undo things. The power of Ahimsa is infinitely more wonderful and subtler than electricity or magnetism.
The law of Ahimsa is as much exact and precise as the law of gravitation or cohesion. You must know the correct way to apply it intelligently and with scientific accuracy. If you are able to apply it with exactitude and precision, you can work wonders. You can command the elements and Nature also.

THE POWER OF AHIMSA
The power of Ahimsa is greater than the power of the intellect. It is easy to develop the intellect, but it is difficult to purify and develop the heart. The practice of Ahimsa develops the heart in a wonderful manner.

He who practices Ahimsa develops strong will-power. In his presence, enmity ceases. In his presence, cobra and frog, cow and tiger, cat and rat, wolf and lamb, will all live together in terms of intimate friendship. In his presence, all hostilities are given up. The term 'hostilities are given up' means that all beings - men, animals, birds and poisonous creatures will approach the practitioner without fear and do no harm to him. Their hostile nature disappears in them in his presence. The rat and the cat, the snake and the mongoose, and other beings that are enemies of each other by nature, give up their hostile feelings in the presence of the Yogi who is established in Ahimsa. Lions and tigers can never do any harm to such a Yogi. Such a Yogi can give definite orders to lion and tigers. They will obey. This is Bhuta-Siddhi (mastery over the elements) obtainable by the practice of Ahimsa. The practice of Ahimsa will eventually culminate in the realization of unity and oneness of life, or Advaitic (non-dual) Consciousness. The Yogi then enjoys the highest peace, bliss and immortality.

LIMITATIONS TO THE PRACTICE OF AHIMSA
Absolute Ahimsa is impossible. It is not possible to the most conscientious Sannyasin or monk. To practice that, you must avoid killing countless creatures while walking, sitting, eating, breathing, sleeping and drinking. You cannot find a single non-injurer in the world. You have to destroy life in order to live. It is physically impossible for you to obey the law of non-destruction of life, because the phagocytes of your blood also are destroying millions of dangerous intrusive spirilla, bacteria and germs.

According to one school of thought, if by the murder of a dacoit many lives are saved, it is not considered as Himsa. Ahimsa and Himsa are relative terms. Some say that one can defend oneself with instruments and use a little violence also when one is in danger; this is not considered to be Himsa. Westerners generally destroy their dear horses and dogs when they are in acute agony and when there is no way of relieving their sufferings. They wish that the soul should be immediately freed from the physical body. Motive is the chief factor that underlies everything.

A renunciate or monk should not defend himself and use violence even when his life is in jeopardy. To an ordinary man, Ahimsa should be the aim, but he will not fall from this principle if, out of sheer necessity and with no selfish aim, he takes recourse to Himsa occasionally. One should not give leniency to the mind in this respect. If you are lenient, the mind will always take the best advantage of you and goad you to do acts of violence. Give a rogue an inch, he will take an ell: the mind at once adapts this policy, if you give a long rope for its movement.

Ahimsa is never a policy. It is a sublime virtue. It is the fundamental quality of seekers after Truth. No Self-realization is possible without Ahimsa. It is through the practice of Ahimsa alone that you can cognize and reach the Supreme Self or Brahman. Those with whom it is a policy may fail many a time. They will be tempted to do violent acts also. On the contrary, those who strictly adhere to the vow of Ahimsa as a sacred creed or fundamentals cannon of Yoga, can never be duped into violence.

A UNIVERSAL VOW
Ahimsa is a Mahavratam or "great universal vow". It should be practiced by all people of all countries. It does not concern the Hindus or Indians alone. Whoever wishes to realize the Truth must practice Ahimsa. You may encounter any amount of difficulties; you may sustain any amount of losses, but you must not give up the practice of Ahimsa. Trial and difficulties are bound to come in your way to test your strength. You should stand adamant. Then alone will your efforts be crowned with sanguine success.

There is a hidden power in Ahimsa which protects its practitioners. The invisible hand of God gives protection. There is no fear. What can pistols and swords do ?
Even now there are people who do not give the least pain to any living creature. They carry sugar and rice for distribution to ants in their holes. They do not use lights at night for fear of killing the small insects. They are very careful while walking in the streets, as they do not wish to trample upon small insects.

I personally don't eat meat because of this principal. My weakness is restaurant food. Even though the food is non-meat sometimes the food is seasoned with pork. Sometimes meat ends up on my pizza even though I order a veggie pizza. I can catch the meat most of the time but there have been times when I have swallowed before I realized that meat was there.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

Sagefrakrobatik
26 September 2009, 08:02 AM
Namaskar Singhi,



Thanks Singhi. Yes, I know that.

The argument is not over if 'hindus or khastriyas can eat meat or not' or 'if animal sacrifices are allowed or not',
my argument is over 'copying unauthentic material from anti hindu sites to justify the two'.




Quite simply, Hindus are not buddhists or jainis who are so sentimental about such things.

Well let me tell you with Budhist its not that clear because i visited a Cambodian buddhist place for worship and a Vietnamese temple and let me tell you me being it vegetarian it was hard to taste most of their cuisine because most of it contained meat.

I think that the point Arjuna was making is that people automatically think all hindus are vegetarian. I just got done reading a conise version of the Ramyana by a guy who was a close Associatet of Ghandhi. Now that does not mean that there is not contradictory scriptures. I think in the Manu Sutri??? It says something about not eating meat because the animal you eat in this life time will eat you in the next one. Still, to be honest, i was quit suprised to read that Ram, one of hindu's principal characters ate meat, It made me realize that there is more to Hinduism, or if you prefer, Santa Dharma, then i had realized. It is also important to realize that contradictions are not something limited to this religion but that many contradictions can be found in the scriptures of all religions.

saidevo
26 September 2009, 10:51 AM
The explanation at the link below has a point:

Vegetarianism of Rama
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/aranya/sarga73/aranya_73_prose.htm