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ScottMalaysia
29 May 2008, 05:46 AM
At our local temple (Mariamman temple) there is a shrine to Bhairava near the entrance to the main temple, right beside a shrine of Hanuman. I've noticed that there are two large, slightly curved swords and a trident placed behind the Bhairava Deity. I've seen similar weapons on a rack in the prayer room at my girlfriend's grandfather's house. I'm wondering, what is the significance of these weapons? Are they simply decorations or is there a significance to them? And are they actually used by the priests in any sacred rites (e.g. breaking the coconut)?

And what is the difference between worshipping Lord Shiva as the Bhairava form and in His Lingam form? Why would a person choose one form over another?

Eastern Mind
29 May 2008, 04:41 PM
Vannakkam Scott; I don't know much except for my own experiences. Here there is a Bhairava, and he is at the door, and lined up directly with the lingam shrine. (This temple was designed by the famed Ganapati Sthapati, so it is in accordance with the Saiva Agama stuff on temple design. Bhairava is the gatekeeper. At his shrine I feel a sense of thankfulness always; a thankfulness out of just letting me in at all, as I still feel like a foreigner/intruder sometimes. Not only is it a sense of entering the temple, but also a sense of entering the religion. (I don't go with this specifically in mine, it just sort of pops up when I approach that shrine. I feel it is a mystical thing. One day the priest here made the point 'Don't cross Bhairava, its his job to protect this place." He also holds the key (physical key) when the temple is closed and the priest has to retrieve it from him in order to open the sanctum after the temple has been closed. However, back at the Lingam shrine, which is quite small as this is a Ganapati temple, I always just get the yearning for the Self feeling as that is what the Lingam is, a representation of Absolute reality beyond time, form and space, So I have no clue if this would be helpful to your understanding at all, so take it for what its worth, one devotee's observations based on experience. Aum Namsivaya

Baobobtree
29 May 2008, 08:17 PM
Namaste Scott.


At our local temple (Mariamman temple) there is a shrine to Bhairava near the entrance to the main temple, right beside a shrine of Hanuman. I've noticed that there are two large, slightly curved swords and a trident placed behind the Bhairava Deity. I've seen similar weapons on a rack in the prayer room at my girlfriend's grandfather's house. I'm wondering, what is the significance of these weapons? Are they simply decorations or is there a significance to them? And are they actually used by the priests in any sacred rites (e.g. breaking the coconut)?


The weapons behind the deity of Bhairava, are probably worshiped as a form of Bhairava, and I'm not too sure if they'd also be used in any sort of ritual. I'm fairly certain the weapons in your girlfriend's grandfather's prayer room, would be used for rituals like breaking coconuts, and possibly sacrificing an animal if he isn't vegetarian.


And what is the difference between worshipping Lord Shiva as the Bhairava form and in His Lingam form? Why would a person choose one form over another? It really depends upon which form they are attracted to, and some might worship both. I can't give you a whole lot of information on Bhairava or his worship, but there is a nice thread on him here http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1352 if you're interested. Now, on the subject of the Shiva Linga, the Shiva Purana gives us an interesting account of its appearance. Brahma and Vishnu were arguing over who was supreme, when a giant Linga of fire appeared. Brahma tried to find the top of the pillar, and Vishnu the bottom, but neither could find an end to the Linga. Finally, Lord Shiva appeared to them both, revealing himself to be the supreme Lord, and that this Linga of fire was him. He further revealed that this Linga was without beginning, without end, and that from it all other beings arose. In other words the Lingam, is an abstract form of Shiva, which represents his infinite, and all encompassing nature.

devotee
30 May 2008, 02:05 AM
At our local temple (Mariamman temple) there is a shrine to Bhairava near the entrance to the main temple, right beside a shrine of Hanuman. I've noticed that there are two large, slightly curved swords and a trident placed behind the Bhairava Deity. I've seen similar weapons on a rack in the prayer room at my girlfriend's grandfather's house. I'm wondering, what is the significance of these weapons? Are they simply decorations or is there a significance to them? And are they actually used by the priests in any sacred rites (e.g. breaking the coconut)?



Namaste Scot,

The weapons are worshipped with the deity to whom they belong. They are normally not used for any other ritual (like breaking coconut or sacrifice).

OM

yajvan
30 May 2008, 11:42 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste

There are a few meanings for Śiva's triśula. Perhaps sarabhanga can take apart this word and go deeper into tri+śu+la

Some see this trika, 3 pronged, as Siva, Viṣṇu and Brahmā. Siva holding it as paramaśiva, some say parameśvara.
This trika is also considered 3 main śhakti: parā, parāparā and aparā;
This śhakti is also considered icca śhakti, kriyā śhakti and jñāna śhakti - hence Śiva's rule or domain over these 3 and also can be used as tools to bring the aspirant to Him
Others may see this as Śiva, Rudra and Bhairava - this can be extended to the Trika philosophy of kaśmir śaivism and the āgamas (some call śāstras) and are grouped by these names: Śiva, Rudra and Bhairava and are considered parā, parāparā and aparā
Some see this triśula as Śiva's rule over spiritual, mental and physical - that is the whole universe.
Some see the triśula as the 3 guna and Śiva's rule over the gunaAlso note that Also note that durgatināśinī (some say Durgā) wields the triśula.

Yet I would ask, this triśula is known to have 3 points on it, yes? But what of the shaft? The 4th? This 3 pronged trident can be carried as a daṃḍa (danda or stick). What of this is? Is there significance? Could not the triśula just have been a logo, like a lapel pin, without the danda? Any thoughts on this?


Om Māhdeva namo namaha

pranams


http://lotussculpture.com/images/shiv9.jpg (http://lotus-sculpture.stores.yahoo.net/shiva.html)

atanu
30 May 2008, 10:57 PM
Hari Om
Also note that Durgati ( some just call Durga) wields the triśula.



Namaste Yajvan Ji,

You have provided nice meanings for the trishula. shula is that which pierces/gives pain etc. Controller/remover of three kinds of primeval pains daivic, bhautic and atmic associated with the body/self is Shulapani.

As far as I know, Durgati and DurgA are widely apart in meaning. durgati mainly means distress or Hell. In fact DurgA is vanquisher of durgati. Some dictionaries use Durgati as noun for Goddess durgA. That may be a problem of not knowing a language from inside.

Om

sarabhanga
31 May 2008, 07:57 AM
Some dictionaries use Durgati as noun for Goddess durgA. That may be a problem of not knowing a language from inside.

Namaste,

shrI durgA is durgatinAshinI, but no dictionary suggests durgati as a name for durgA ~ it is clearly a problem of not knowing how to read the dictionary !

atanu
31 May 2008, 08:21 AM
Namaste,

shrI durgA is durgatinAshinI, but no dictionary suggests durgati as a name for durgA ~ it is clearly a problem of not knowing how to read the dictionary !

Namaste sarabhanga,

Yes. durgatinAshinI, vanquisher of durgati as already stated.



Originally Posted by atanu
As far as I know, Durgati and DurgA are widely apart in meaning. durgati mainly means distress or Hell. In fact DurgA is vanquisher of durgati.


Om

yajvan
31 May 2008, 12:20 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste sarabhanga,

Yes. durgatinAshinI, vanquisher of durgati as already stated.
Om

Namate atanu and sarabhanga,

Points well made... when my jyotish teacher talks of DurgA he only mentions her as durgatinAshinI, that is, the full name. This is neither here nor there for this conversation but seemed to stick out in my mind as I thought about his conversations on this matter.

And yes, when I view durgati as a dictionary entry I see it as misfortune , distress , poverty and hell, as she (DugrA) removes one from this condition. This durgA is also shown as 'a singing bird'.

Most readings I see have Her as Durga; In fact I find it rare to see Her mentioned as durgatinAshinI. This does not infer by any means this is incorrect - I rather like the name durgatinAshinI; yet many sites I see on the Web choose to call Her Durgati also...

pranams,

atanu
31 May 2008, 01:07 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namate atanu and sarabhanga,

Points well made... when my jyotish teacher talks of DurgA he only mentions her as durgatinAshinI, -yet many sites I see on the Web choose to call Her Durgati...

pranams,

Namaste Yajvan Ji,

Hari Om,

To err is us. It does not matter, if one has the correct meaning with a wrong word. There is nothing to prove or disprove or no axe to grind. :)

Just occurred that Maa DurgA is not durgati.

Regards

Om

yajvan
30 June 2008, 01:23 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Om Māhdeva namo namaha

Namaste ,
I thought to bring this conversation up we had a month ago… The notion of the stick, daṃḍa ( some write daṇda) that is part of the triśula mentioned in posts 5 & 6 above. What does it represent? Let me offer my POV on this. If others have ideas or corrections on this matter, please offer them.

Its of interest to me that the stick, the daṇda, is placed in the middle of the triśula. That makes sense as it is for balance and perhaps visual aesthetics. Yet it is my opinion nothing is done by chance in these matters. Being in the center is also madhya, central or middle most position. This is a subject that is regularly discussed within the literature of Kaśmir Śaivism.

One could view this daṇda, without to much embellishment, as madhya-nāḍī ¹, or the central vein we find in the spinal cord. This madhya-nāḍī is instrumental in bringing about nirvikalpa¹ the condition of awareness we have talked about that has no wavering, it perfectly balanced, and some call Bhairava¹.

The triśula, tri (3) + su to possess supremacy; also to urge , impel , incite + la the act of taking or giving, sits on top of the daṇda, the stick, the madhya-nāḍī. This IMHO is the symbol (samketa) of the daṇda; it is where we can experience/find Śiva. How so?

If we look to the Vijñāna Bhairava, 35th kārikā it offers the following on madhyanāḍī:
Madhyanāḍī madhyasaṃsthā bisa-sūtrābharūpayā |
Dhyātāntarvyomayā devyā tayā devah prakāsate ||
The central vein (madhyanāḍī) situated in the middle, subtle like the fibre of a lotus stalk. By meditating (dhāranā) in the space within it, through that goddess ( of the inner space) God ( devaḥ ) is revealed ( prakāsate).

This is svāmi Laksmanjoo's view/translation. He chooses the word 'revealed' for prakāsate or prakāśa. This prakāśa suggests visible , shining , bright. That the light of Bhairava shines though. Note, nothing has to be lit or ignited for the light to happen. It just has to be revealed, to shine through. My teacher always said, ' just open the window for the light of day to shine through'. The light is there, we just provide the conditions for this to occur. This state is svaprakāśa or self-illuminating.

Abhinavagupta says essentially the same thing: The madhya-nāḍī is situated in the middle. It is as slender as the stem of a lotus. If one meditates on the inner vacuity of this nāḍī in the form of the Goddess (Śrī Devī or in this case Bhairavi) then the Divine is revealed.

This approach has been come to be called the method of the stick, daṇdaprayoga or daṇda + pra + yoga; daṇda = madhyanāḍī + pra that brings forth or prā which means fulfilling + yoga = union.
As a result of this practice, the native attains the Highest (anuttara) and dwells in Puri ( the city) of Pure Consciousness which is free (nirvikalpa) of waves ( disturbances) and whose nature is Śiva, whose form is cidāman (Consciousness).

ॐनमःिशवाय
pranams

Words & references

madhya मध्य middlemost , intermediate , central ;standing between two
This madhya-nāḍī is often called suṣumnā सुषुम्ना - artery or vein of the body (lying between those called between those called iDA इडा and piGgalA पिङ्गला) - supposed to be one of the passages for the breath or spirit
prakāśa प्रकाश visible , shining , bright ; clear , manifest , open
pra प्र forward , in front , on , forth; prā प्रा filling
anuttara अनुत्तर - chief, principle, Supreme; that which is unsurpassable, the highest.
Bhairava - More information at this HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=17892&postcount=52)
nirvikalpa निर्विकल्प free from change or differences ; no wavering Offered on Monday, owned by Śiva; as Chandra is exalted in krittika nakshatra

yajvan
07 July 2008, 03:48 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~




There are a few meanings for Śiva's triśula.

Some see this trika, 3 pronged, as Siva, Viṣṇu and Brahmā. Siva holding it as paramaśiva, some say parameśvara.
This trika is also considered 3 main śhakti: parā, parāparā and aparā;
This śhakti is also considered icca śhakti, kriyā śhakti and jñāna śhakti - hence Śiva's rule or domain over these 3 and also can be used as tools to bring the aspirant to Him
Others may see this as Śiva, Rudra and Bhairava - this can be extended to the Trika philosophy of kaśmir śaivism and the āgamas (some call śāstras) and are grouped by these names: Śiva, Rudra and Bhairava and are considered parā, parāparā and aparā
Some see this triśula as Śiva's rule over spiritual, mental and physical - that is the whole universe.
Some see the triśula as the 3 guna and Śiva's rule over the guna

I thought I would extend the conversation just a bit more, as there is so many ways to consider this triśula.

Another view... Śrī Devī is also known as the the 3 cornered Divinity. In the quote above there are multiple examples of this 3, or triad, trika. Its said one should recognize/adore Śrī Devī (some recognize Her as Parā Vāk, Śakti, Bhairavi, etc) as:

pramātā - the knower
pramāṇa - the means of knowing
prameya - the object to be knownWe again see the triad, the 3. We know Śiva's triśula is 3 pronged. and a view of Śrī Devī is the triangle. Both measure and complement the same.
We also know from Jyotish that Śrī Devī as Lakśmī owns the trikona-s that is the 1st, 5th and 9th houses, forming the triangle within ones chart and hence within us.

What we have been discussing is part of trika śastra. Can we find this in Vedānta? Sure, this pramātā+pramāṇa+prameya is the subject at hand of the dṛg-dṛśya-viveka or the distinction between the seer and seen. This is also known as Vākya-sudhā, and is Śaṅkarācārya's work. It is composed of 46 śloka-s and worth the read.
When we talk of Truth, (satyam) of anuttara ( the Supreme, that nothing passes or excells beyond), I find more sameness (samatā) in the knowledge that is offered.


http://www.rainbowray.com/Bhairavi%20yantra.jpg
Bhairavi's yantra


pranams

Words & References

pramātā - from pramā प्रमा true knowledge , correct notion ; right measure from mā. A simular view of this is - the cognizer; the subject or the knower who cognizes.
Its interesting to note that tā is another name of lakśmī. We can also take this tā to tāra or carrying across , a saviour , protector , but will leave that for another post.
pramāṇa प्रमाण - a means of acquiring pramā or knowledge ; measure of any kind
prameya प्रमेय- an object of certain knowledge , the thing to be proved or the topic to be discussed ; the object to be measured , measurable
samatā समता - sameness
More on this triad : HDF Post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=609&highlight=Mahachamasya