yajvan
06 June 2008, 08:19 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~
Namaste,
I wondered if you have an opinion on this matter. As of late I have been thinking about the notion of guru and teacher, śiṣya and student.
When I think of guru what comes to mind? The spiritual preceptor no doubt. Yet another word comes to mind also - Vijñānavan or one established in wisdom - jñā is to know. In this case to know Brahman. Perhaps the proper word here is Brahmana-niṣthā - one firmly established in the Supreme. A guru, it seems, can be a teacher, yet I question whether a teacher can be a guru.
The teacher we know imparts information, data, perhaps skills and instruction. It seems then that this teaching of information can be portable.
It can be transferred from one person, the student, to another. Even that other person, once a student can then become the teacher of another. Like that, this is the notion of portability of information. We do it all the time. We learn something new and we transfer it to others… look what I learned let me share it with you.
Yet the guru, the vijñānavan has something that is non-portable, at least at first. He/She established in the SELF, discusses this wisdom and offers it to the śiṣya. Yet that śiṣya can also be the cela¹ (chela) the servant, we call disciple.
Then there is a different relationship. It is not so much 'feed me information' anymore. It is the recognition of the status of the guru as Brahmana-niṣthā. Now the relationship changes.
For the student, at times, questions are given to exercise the intellect perhaps the ego. In various settings this can be to show ones prowess, intellictual development, and answer a question that may be pending in the studuents mind.
Yet when the cela (chela) asks, it is more for removing doubts he or she may be pondering. The questions are more sincere in nature IMHO.
Many times it is good enough just to be in the air of the guru, that is all that is needed. To be in his darśan or sight. That is all that is needed to satisfy many celas.
I think of the questions Śrī Rām asks of Vasiṣṭha as I read Vasiṣṭha's Yoga. Or when I read the Arjuna's dialog with Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavad gītā. There are many examples one can give. Yet you can see that the tone, the orientation and sincerity is different.
This is the part I see that is not transferable non-portable. This word or phrase non-portable was offered by Paramahamsa Nithyananda in one of his discourses. I am not a cela of Paramahamsa Nithyananda yet enjoy his depth of knowledge.
Over the years I, like you, have had many teachers, but very few Brahmana-niṣthās that I have encountered. This is the blessing that comes from the Supreme guru , guru deva.
It occurs to me that on HDF we needn't get all wound-up about a particualar subject or discussion. We come here with good intent to share the information we know and to pass it on the best we can. It will be our boon to have the vijñānavan join us, yet me thinks we are not at that stage as yet as I know. Perhaps we will be blessed.
Rely on the teachings to evaluate a guru. Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism - the Dalai Lama
Jai guru dev
1. words used
śiṣya शिष्य - student some prefer the word chela (cela)
cela चेल - a servant
guru गुरु - some call the dispeller of darkness; guru defined is heavy, great , large , extended
~~~~~
Namaste,
I wondered if you have an opinion on this matter. As of late I have been thinking about the notion of guru and teacher, śiṣya and student.
When I think of guru what comes to mind? The spiritual preceptor no doubt. Yet another word comes to mind also - Vijñānavan or one established in wisdom - jñā is to know. In this case to know Brahman. Perhaps the proper word here is Brahmana-niṣthā - one firmly established in the Supreme. A guru, it seems, can be a teacher, yet I question whether a teacher can be a guru.
The teacher we know imparts information, data, perhaps skills and instruction. It seems then that this teaching of information can be portable.
It can be transferred from one person, the student, to another. Even that other person, once a student can then become the teacher of another. Like that, this is the notion of portability of information. We do it all the time. We learn something new and we transfer it to others… look what I learned let me share it with you.
Yet the guru, the vijñānavan has something that is non-portable, at least at first. He/She established in the SELF, discusses this wisdom and offers it to the śiṣya. Yet that śiṣya can also be the cela¹ (chela) the servant, we call disciple.
Then there is a different relationship. It is not so much 'feed me information' anymore. It is the recognition of the status of the guru as Brahmana-niṣthā. Now the relationship changes.
For the student, at times, questions are given to exercise the intellect perhaps the ego. In various settings this can be to show ones prowess, intellictual development, and answer a question that may be pending in the studuents mind.
Yet when the cela (chela) asks, it is more for removing doubts he or she may be pondering. The questions are more sincere in nature IMHO.
Many times it is good enough just to be in the air of the guru, that is all that is needed. To be in his darśan or sight. That is all that is needed to satisfy many celas.
I think of the questions Śrī Rām asks of Vasiṣṭha as I read Vasiṣṭha's Yoga. Or when I read the Arjuna's dialog with Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavad gītā. There are many examples one can give. Yet you can see that the tone, the orientation and sincerity is different.
This is the part I see that is not transferable non-portable. This word or phrase non-portable was offered by Paramahamsa Nithyananda in one of his discourses. I am not a cela of Paramahamsa Nithyananda yet enjoy his depth of knowledge.
Over the years I, like you, have had many teachers, but very few Brahmana-niṣthās that I have encountered. This is the blessing that comes from the Supreme guru , guru deva.
It occurs to me that on HDF we needn't get all wound-up about a particualar subject or discussion. We come here with good intent to share the information we know and to pass it on the best we can. It will be our boon to have the vijñānavan join us, yet me thinks we are not at that stage as yet as I know. Perhaps we will be blessed.
Rely on the teachings to evaluate a guru. Do not have blind faith, but also no blind criticism - the Dalai Lama
Jai guru dev
1. words used
śiṣya शिष्य - student some prefer the word chela (cela)
cela चेल - a servant
guru गुरु - some call the dispeller of darkness; guru defined is heavy, great , large , extended