Upanishads - where to start?

[c.smith]

Namaste -

I have secured a translation of many of the Upanishads and would like opinions on which I should read first. I am still getting my bearings in the Hindu faith and hope that the Upanishads can satisfy my desire to learn more.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

The Upanishads indicate the mystery which underlies the external system of things ~ their aim is the exposition of the secret meaning of the Veda.

The Upanishads are Words of Mystery ~ a class of 108 philosophical writings that are regarded as the source of both the Vedanta and Samkhya philosophies.

There are 10 primary Upanishads: Isavasya, Kena, Katha, Prasna, Mundaka, Mandukya, Taittitiya, Aitareya, Chandogya, and Brihadaranyaka.

There are excellent translations of all of these; but the full extent of their wisdom is difficult to translate, and the inner meaning of the Vedas may not be useful to one who has no knowledge of the Vedas to start with ~ a bit like turning up at the end of a lecture just to get the final summary, which will probably be misconstrued without the knowledge-base on which it depends.

The best place to start is with the Bhagavad Gita. :)

[c.smith]

Yes, the Gita helped a lot. I've been studying it for the past few months and have found it to be very enlightening.

I know that Krishna is the 8th incarnation of Vishnu but wonder how the Gita fits in for someone who is devoted to Shiva. How/why would someone become a Krishna devotee if He is just a demi-God? It's kind of like the electric company - if I want power to turn on the lights, I plug into an outlet in my home and electricity appears. But my electric outlet is not the source, the Power source is the electric company. Is it not Krishna is the electrical outlet and Vishnu is the electric company?

[Arjuna]

There are 10 primary Upanishads: Isavasya, Kena, Katha, Prasna, Mundaka, Mandukya, Taittitiya, Aitareya, Chandogya, and Brihadaranyaka.

Namaste Sarabhanga,

Shvetashvatara is also included in this group, and thus there are 11 primary Upanishads.

[satay]

Yes, the Gita helped a lot. I've been studying it for the past few months and have found it to be very enlightening.

I know that Krishna is the 8th incarnation of Vishnu but wonder how the Gita fits in for someone who is devoted to Shiva. How/why would someone become a Krishna devotee if He is just a demi-God? It's kind of like the electric company - if I want power to turn on the lights, I plug into an outlet in my home and electricity appears. But my electric outlet is not the source, the Power source is the electric company. Is it not Krishna is the electrical outlet and Vishnu is the electric company?

namaste!
I am a shiva devotee only by his grace. But I became a shiva devotee because of Bhagwan Krishn! (long story...)
Krishn clearly tells us in Gita that he is rudra himself. so it is irrelevant which manifestation of the supereme being one prays to.

just my 2 cents.

[Singhi Kaya]

Yes, the Gita helped a lot. I've been studying it for the past few months and have found it to be very enlightening.

I know that Krishna is the 8th incarnation of Vishnu but wonder how the Gita fits in for someone who is devoted to Shiva. How/why would someone become a Krishna devotee if He is just a demi-God? It's kind of like the electric company - if I want power to turn on the lights, I plug into an outlet in my home and electricity appears. But my electric outlet is not the source, the Power source is the electric company. Is it not Krishna is the electrical outlet and Vishnu is the electric company?

Krishna is not a demi-god but an avatar. I believe that the greatest worship of avatar is to follow his teaching in life. Krishna's teaching provides the most complete and practical guide to the problems of existence. Krishna uses the word 'Me' throught gita~doesn't mean one has to offer the flowers to the image of krishna only. For a monist 'Me' of gita is Atman, for others his/her own diety.

Also a diety in hinduism is not a demi-god. Diety is a representation of an aspect of the universe~saguna brahma. The core of any hindu worship is thus worship of the saguna brahma=the active godhead=the creation as a whole. Ofcourse worship of demi-gods (~pitri upasana) and even ghosts (preta upasana) are intermingled with the core since all beings are part of the supreme reality~but this is not the central aspect of an upasana.

IMHO

[c.smith]

Thank-you for for clarifying the difference between avatar and demi-God. Right now I still have a long way to go on the learning curve. The question, however, remains. Why pray to Krishna instead of Vishnu?

Thank-you for your patience and support as I find my bearings within Hinduism.

[satay]

Thank-you for for clarifying the difference between avatar and demi-God. Right now I still have a long way to go on the learning curve. The question, however, remains. Why pray to Krishna instead of Vishnu?

Thank-you for your patience and support as I find my bearings within Hinduism.

Krishn and Vishnu are one and the same thing. It's like you going out to your job in a suit and the changing your clothes when you are home and wear something more comfortable. The entity in those clothes is the same just the clothes are different or so it seems...:)

[Singhi Kaya]

Thank-you for for clarifying the difference between avatar and demi-God. Right now I still have a long way to go on the learning curve. The question, however, remains. Why pray to Krishna instead of Vishnu?

Thank-you for your patience and support as I find my bearings within Hinduism.

As Satay says they are one and the same for us.

Whom you pray more depends more on whom you find more close to your heart. For example I find myself very attracted to shiva, all aspects of shakti and Sri Krishna-because he was the perfect character, so I pray to them more than I pray to ganesha or vishnu. But I know all gods are manifested from shakti or divine mother. For a vaishnav it would be different. But if you understand that all gods and goddesses are representations of the same saguna brahma then praying to any is same as praying to all.

At a more subtle level worshipping a god is to be like them~because they represent an aspect of creation which is within us. Worshipping a god means to develop and realize these aspects of the supreme within us. So may be at various stages worshipping one god over other makes sense~but these are too personal and internal aspect of sadhana which only makes sense to the concerned sadhak.IMHO.

[tatvam]

Yes, the Gita helped a lot. I've been studying it for the past few months and have found it to be very enlightening.

I know that Krishna is the 8th incarnation of Vishnu but wonder how the Gita fits in for someone who is devoted to Shiva. How/why would someone become a Krishna devotee if He is just a demi-God? It's kind of like the electric company - if I want power to turn on the lights, I plug into an outlet in my home and electricity appears. But my electric outlet is not the source, the Power source is the electric company. Is it not Krishna is the electrical outlet and Vishnu is the electric company?

Hi Smith,
Which scripture told you that Krishna is a demi-god?
You said you have been studying Geeta since past few months and you understood that Krishna is a demi-god..is there any proof in Geeta that he is demi-god?
and see your question how Gita fits in for someone who is devoted to Shiva?
do you devote somebody by getting the knowledge from scriptures or after you devoting somebody , you try to find out the scripture for your god?

[tatvam]

namaste!
I am a shiva devotee only by his grace. But I became a shiva devotee because of Bhagwan Krishn! (long story...)
Krishn clearly tells us in Gita that he is rudra himself. so it is irrelevant which manifestation of the supereme being one prays to.

just my 2 cents.

HI Satay,
I don't understand your statement ..can you please explain bit clearly?
I think you interpreted the statement of Krishna in vibhooti yoga as Krishna is Rudra..but there he said many other names also as he himself..why can't you take them into consideration?
Please explain me the following sloka from Geeta :

"Rudraadityo vasavo yechasaadhyaaha........vikhanthe twaam vismitaaschaiva sarve"

Thanks in advance for your help.

[satay]

HI Satay,
I don't understand your statement ..can you please explain bit clearly?
I think you interpreted the statement of Krishna in vibhooti yoga as Krishna is Rudra..but there he said many other names also as he himself..why can't you take them into consideration?
Please explain me the following sloka from Geeta :

"Rudraadityo vasavo yechasaadhyaaha........vikhanthe twaam vismitaaschaiva sarve"

Thanks in advance for your help.

namaste,
Sorry about the confusion. No, I am not referring to any shloka here but just some personal experience this is why I said (long story)...

What about this shloka?

Bhagwan Ovacha:

rudranam sankaras casmi vitteso yaksa-raksasam
vasunam pavakas casmi meruh sikharinam aham

[tatvam]

namaste,
Sorry about the confusion. No, I am not referring to any shloka here but just some personal experience this is why I said (long story)...

What about this shloka?

Bhagwan Ovacha:

rudranam sankaras casmi vitteso yaksa-raksasam
vasunam pavakas casmi meruh sikharinam aham

Hi satay,
I asked about that only..that is vibhooti yoga, I asked you that "based on that only do you think Krishna and Rudra are one and the same?"
You have made a statement and I asked regarding that..if you ask the question as a answer to my question..I would think you are not considering total B.G and not interpreting with coordination between slokas.
Thank you.

[satay]

Hi satay,
I asked about that only..that is vibhooti yoga, I asked you that "based on that only do you think Krishna and Rudra are one and the same?"
You have made a statement and I asked regarding that..if you ask the question as a answer to my question..I would think you are not considering total B.G and not interpreting with coordination between slokas.
Thank you.

thank you for the post. For some reason, i have his affect on others that they can not understand what I say.

Please read my previous post...this time slowly. I have no idea what you are saying about shlokas. I am not talking about shlokas let alone BG. But you threw a sholka at me so did I back at you.

now what?:rolleyes:

[saidevo]

Namaste -

I have secured a translation of many of the Upanishads and would like opinions on which I should read first. I am still getting my bearings in the Hindu faith and hope that the Upanishads can satisfy my desire to learn more.

I don't understand why some threads are converted into tête-à-tête, totally deviating from their subject.

The question here is that which of the upanishads a learner should start with. Sarabhanga advised that it is best to start with Bhagavad Gita. Fine. It now remains to be seen what to read after a learner is familiar with Gita. I would like members to post their approaches to knowledge of our scriptures rather than indulging in pointless arguments.

This is not to offend anyone, but only to remind ourselves to stay with the subject of a thread. Please post your opinions and preferences to the order of reading Hindu scriptures, specifically the Upanishads.

I would also like to know about the English translations of Upanishads by Hindu authors. I understand that Swami Krishnananda (disciple of Swami Sivananda) has given dissertations of some of the Upanishads. Who are the others? Any downloadable sources?

Namaste Sri Smith, whose translations have you secured for reading?

[sarabhanga]

Namaste,

There are 108 Upanishads, although four of these may be particularly recommended (and best read in the following order):

Aitareya,
Brihadaranyaka,
Chandogya,
Mandukya.


Rama informs Hanuman, in the 108th (Muktika) Upanishad:

“By what means is Kaivalya Moksha attained? The Mandukya is enough!
If Knowledge is not gained from it, then study the Ten Upanishads.”

Which means that (along with the four above) the Taittiriya, Prashna, Kena, Katha, Mundaka, and Isha Upanishads should also be studied.

“If desiring Moksha without the body, then read the 108 Upanishads.”

[Isa, Kena, Katha, Prashna, Mundaka, Mandukya, Taittiriya, Aitareya, Chandogya, Brihadaranyaka, Brahma, Kaivalya, Jabala, Shvetashvatara, Hamsa, Arunika, Garbha, Narayana, Paramahamsa, Amritabindu, Amritanada, Atharvashiras, Atharvashikha, Maitrayani, Kaushitaki, Brihajjabala, Nrisimhatapaniya, Kalagnirudra, Maitreya, Subala, Kshurika, Mantrika, Sarvasara, Niralamba, Sukarahasya, Vajrasucika, Tejobindu, Nadabindu, Dhyanabindu, Brahmavidya, Yogatattva, Atmabodha, Naradaparivrajaka, Trishikhi, Sita, Yogacudamani, Nirvana, Mandalabrahmana, Dakshinamurti, Sharabha, Skanda, Tripadvibhuti-mahanarayana, Advayataraka, Ramarahasya, Ramatapaniya, Vasudeva, Mudgala, Shandilya, Paingala, Bhikshuka, Maha, Shariraka, Yogashikha, Turiyatitavadhuta, Samnyasa, Paramahamsaparivrajaka, Akshamalika, Avyakta, Ekakshara, Annapurna, Surya, Akshi, Adhyatma, Kundika, Savitri, Atma, Pashupata, Parabrahma, Avadhuta, Tripuratapini, Devi, Tripura, Katharudra, Bhavana, Rudrahridaya, Yogakundali, Bhasmajabala, Rudrakshajabala, Ganapati, Darshana, Tarasara, Mahavakya, Panchabrahma, Pranagnihotra, Gopalatapini, Krishna, Yajnavalkya, Varaha, Satyayana, Hayagriva, Dattatreya, Garuda, Kalisamtarana, Jabali, Saubhagyalakshmi, Sarasvatirahasya, Bahvrica, and Muktika.]

:)

[saidevo]

Namaste Sarabhanga,

Many thanks for a prompt reply. Since I am yet to become Sanskrit-literate, I think I shall start with the English dissertations of Swami Krishnananda at http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Saidevo,

Swami Krishnanada certainly has provided an excellent course of Vedanta instruction in the 10 Ebooks on Upanishads (http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/books_3a.html) available from his web-site!

:Cool:

[c.smith]

The translation of the Upanishads that I have obtained is by Eknath Easwaran. It was suggested by another member and it is truly a find. It is by no means complete, but it is good start I believe. I have a couple of his commentaries and his translation of the Bhagavad Gita as well. Previously, I've studied the Gita that was translated by ISKCON. The Easwaran vesion speaks more to my heart though both are probably accurate and valid.

I feel that I offended a member on this thread because of the strained reply that I received. By no means am I out to offend anyone. I am at the bottom of the learning curve being very new (in my first year) to the faith and ask for patience and guidance on my journey here.

I've been corrected in the meaning of Demi-God which was originally given to me by an ISKCONite. I know have the proper meaning thanks to some clarification on this board. Avatar was much more appropriate in describing Krishna.

As far as "choosing" scripture to fit in with my beliefs? Yes, what I am asking for is scripture that will help me to define what I believe and to acquire more knowledge. My focus now is on devotion to Ganesha and to Shiva and anything that would be suggested in scripture along those lines would be greatly appreciated. I will try to be more concise in my posts but always ask that the reader take into account that I am still learning and having to do much of it on my own.

As always, thanks to all for your patience, guidance and understanding.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Dharmajim]

Good Friends:

Thank you for the link to Swami Krishnananda's site. Really fine material.

Best wishes,

Dharmajim

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Sarabhanga,

Many thanks for a prompt reply. Since I am yet to become Sanskrit-literate, I think I shall start with the English dissertations of Swami Krishnananda at http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/

Hello and Namaste.
your recommendation is excellent as Krishnananda is insightful and writes well. I have read his discourse and found them delightful... I also read the Upanishads from Sivananda. He also is an excellent sadhu-teacher and speaks no dooubt from his personal experiences.
I have found I 'study' them verses read them from Krishnanda and Sivananda. there are so many ways to enjoy and describe the Truth.
Let me add one more reading that has advanced my undersanding of these great works... Lights on the Upanishads by TV Kapali Sastry.

The knowlege of the vidya's coupled with various pratika upasana advances one thinking and appreciation of Bhuma ( Brahman).

sarvam khalvidyam brahma - all this is Brahman - Chandogya Upanishad

pranams,

[saidevo]

Let me add one more reading that has advanced my undersanding of these great works... Lights on the Upanishads by TV Kapali Sastry.


Searching for any online works of Sri Kapali Sastry, I chanced on this link, which features selections from Aurobindo, Mother, N.K.Gupta, M.P.Pandit and Kapali Sastry:

http://www.odinring.de/eng/english.htm