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NowHere
19 June 2008, 12:50 AM
Hi,
I am searching infos about Pleiads.
I have found things on the web, but I still miss this:
1) the name of each individual star on other tradition than the occidental. This can be in Arab, Japanese, Hindu, Chinese, and other culture. I only know the name of the 7 Pleiads in Greek culture. In the other languages I just know the name of the cluster (Al Turaya, Subaru, Krittika, Mao or Mea, etc.), but nothing about the singles stars.
2) the meaning of these names.
3) how does the Pleiads act, astronomically, in the southern hemisphere: what does it happens to them from the point of view of someone on the southern hemisphere. I mean their cyclical actions (cycles of one year, 8 years, 52 years), heliacal rising, zenith...
4) I am also interested on the esoteric aspect of these stars, about the kind of “energy” that these stars represent and their influence in life on planet earth.
5) any kind of other interesting infos. I’ve lately read about the possibility of a zone near Pleiads where an astronomer says that possibly stars are borning, and for some reason which I do not remember well this had some particularity. Or for example in Pleiads there are white dwarfs which are not supposed to be there because they are too old to be in a young cluster.

So, if you could please help me even just in one of these points, or direct me to someone who can help me, some person, or some site?
Thanks!

yajvan
19 June 2008, 10:25 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Sergio, welcome to HDF.


Note that the pleiades cluster resides in the nakshatra of krittika. What is a nakshatra? See the posts mentioned below¹. Krittika nakshatra starts in Aries and ends in Taurus ( or 26°40' to 40°00' of the zodiac).

This group is sometimes called the 7 sisters - they are wedded to the 7 great rishi's of Sanatana dharma. The 7 great ( maha) rishi's ( seers) are considered the 7 stars of of Ursa Major we call the Big Dipper.

So from a google search perspective you have a start:


Krittika nakshatra
7 sisters
7 rishispranams


1. Nakshastras HDF posts:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1749 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1749)
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1763 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1763)
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1736&highlight=nakshatra



Naka+ksha+tra: Naka = night + ksha = destruction, defending + tri is from trai to protect. A Nakshatra then is a lunar mansion ( like your home) that protects the native. I also think of it as Ksatriya , which has at its root this ksh, to defend + tri, to protect. And this Ksh at its root has kr =to act or do. So a Ksatriya =one who protects and is like Nakshatra.
Naksha+tra: Naksha = approach or gain + tra = protect/guard. So Nakshatra = to guard or protect from approaching dangers.
Na+kshetra: This Na has multiple roots. for this explanation, it is the bija sound for jala, water or fluid. Kshetra and its form is that of a region or house. Some even use this for the sign of the zodiac. So how is this connected? The moon is associated with jala tattva and also a water rasi, Cancer. Now it is of interest to me that this Na as bija for water also refers to the moon. So together it is Na ( moon) that rules over those regions or houses (kshetra) or Nakshatras.

NowHere
19 June 2008, 09:25 PM
Hi yajvan, Namaste...
Yes, I had already searched about seven sisters and seven wives, Pleiads, Subaru, Krittika, Kartikeya, Dionysus (does anybody here see his connection with Kartikeya?), Doves, "names of stars", etc...
And I have found some info but not much.
About Rishis, I read that in some period the Pleiads where considered to be the seven Rishis and not their wives... Why can be that? Also, does anybody have any idea on why the seven Rishis are associated with Ursa Mayor? I mean, did they ever existed as entities, as Rishis? Or they are just an astrological myths? And what is their real deep relation with Krittikas? Why should they be their wives?
I see that you insist about the Nakshatra. Does it have a direct connection to Pleiads?

Are Krittika considered always as one, or each single star has got a separate value and influence on people? Do they have individual names?

I am reading on the web that Pleyads represent the energy of the third ray kind, while Big Dipper is first ray kind. The two are supposed to unite their energies to give birth to life. In some way Pleiads are the stars which help spirit to manifest into matter (I guess that for this reason they are identified with female aspect)... This is, if I do not mistake, what A.A. Bailey says on "Esoteric astrology".
This sounds interesting, and I would like to understand something more.
In your tradition is there a similar believe?

I need to find out something more concrete, elements to understand the universal and practical aspects of myths. To understand how Pleiads influence us and/or what do they represent.
Why are they called seven doves? Because doves represent albedo in Alchemy?
This is the kind of analisys I am trying to do...
I need to find out what is the real info beyond the myth...

yajvan
19 June 2008, 10:38 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Sergio,
Let me offer a bit more for your search. Take a look at the sapta rishi (saptarshi सप्तर्षि saptaṛṣi)

Visvamitra - Alpha Ursæ Majoris.

Jamadagni - Beta Ursæ Majoris.

Bharadvaja -Gamma Ursæ Majoris.

Gautama - Delta Ursæ Majoris.

Atri - Epsilon Ursæ Majoris.

Vasistha - Zeta Ursæ Majoris.

Kasyapa - Eta Ursæ Majoris.

You can also read just a snippet of the saptaṛṣi -s in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Sisu Brahmana. There is just a few mantra-s of were the saptaṛṣi -s can be found in the sadhu. This is not as robust as you need, but I add it as a data point.


The Mahabharata calls out thre saptaṛṣi in the adhi parva or sabha parva ( parva is a chapter or book, kanda कन्द) ; I will need to look this up to insure the correct parva.

So for a search , consider sapta rishi as your entry. I will look at some additional items for your consideration and post them when I find the pointers to other information.


pranams

NowHere
19 June 2008, 10:53 PM
Thanks!

Pleiads are really particular.
I am reading that our sun rotates around Alcyone, which rotates around the (hypothetical?) Central Sun (even if I did not understood "Central" respect to what. Our galaxy? The universe?).
Ah, I have read somewhere that Pleiads are the Vishudda Chakra of a greater being called "the one who it is not possible to talk about"...
???

sarabhanga
20 June 2008, 08:00 AM
Namaste Sergio,

The Pleiades (bahulikAs, kRttikAs) mark the kRttika nakshatram, ruled by agni, and when the full moon is near the bahulAs the indications are of greatness, abundance, etc. And as the SaTkRtti they are the SaTshas shakti, the six-fold energy of the seven RSayas or RkshAs (the most excellent ones of the bear), as the sum of all (six) passions. And the kRttikAs are named as seven mothers (the saptamAtaras), including arundhatI and included by arundhatI (as ambAsupuNIkA, the meritorious mother).

ambA ~ “mother”
dulA ~ “moving to and fro” (cf. dolA, “a swing or palanquin”, indicating “fluctuation”)
nitatni
abhrayantI ~ “forming white clouds”
meghayantI ~ “forming thunder-clouds”
varSayantI ~ “causing rain”
cupuNIkA ~ cf. supuNIkA (“great excellence or religious merit”)

And the eighth kRttikA is the invincible pinion of aSADhA, and the ninth is ukhA (the caldron).

NowHere
20 June 2008, 09:37 PM
Namaste Sarabhanga,

Well, I have searched bahulikas on the forum, but I have found nothing.
Is another name of Krittikas, if I understood well? Does it have a meaning as Nakshatra? Does it Krittika have it too?
Why do you write 7 names if Krittikas in India are 6 (as the faces of Shanmuga)? Effectively I was asking to myself how can they be wives of the Sapta Rishi if they are six...
Anyway, in your version, with an 8 and 9 star, I can see similitudes with greek myth. Pleion and Atlas, mother and father of Pleiades, are the 8 and 9 stars of Pleiades.
Someone considers that they are 10, because one of the 7 sisters is a binary star (but I have read that it is actually a quaternary system!)
Between Pleion and Atlas, which one do you think it is asadha and which ukha?
The final "a" means they are both masculine? While an "i" is femenine? In this case Krittikas would not be all women...
Is there any story, legend, myth, about the origin of Krittikas, as for Pleiads in greek mythology?
Is there also for each single star? It would help me in understanding if it is possible to associate each star of Krittika with one of the greek Pleiads.
Do you know which one is married to which Rishi?
And could you, for example, associate each name with a precise star, in a picture of Pleiads? Or associate it with the scientific name of the star, as above with Ursa Mayor?

Gautama was a Rishi??? Is not a Buddha?

sarabhanga
22 June 2008, 09:21 AM
Namaste Sergio,

The bahulikAs are the stars comprising the Pleiades, and bAhula is as another name for the kRttika nakshatram. Only six stars are traditionally counted, the seventh being all six counted as one. And the six heads of kArttikeya are derived from their sustenance, with kArttikeya embodied by all of their virtues drawn together in the one perfect frame of the seventh, as their adopted son, as pure shakti in the guise of a man.

There are seven wives corresponding with the seven RSayas, but only six of them are particularly represented in the Pleiades ~ the seventh shines together with her husband in Ursa major. And the kRttikA constellation has always been considered as a single entity, so it is not really possible to fix particular names to individual stars in the group.

And the eighth and ninth kRttikAs cannot be equated with particular stars of the Pleiades constellation. Although the eighth may be considered as the celestial pole, and the ninth as the inverted bowl of the heavens ~ which is reflected in the story of Atlas and Pleion, which reminds us that daksha prajApati (the father of all of soma’s 27 wives) also dwells at the northern pole, re-enacting his sacrifice every winter solstice.

It was daksha prajApati who conjured the kRttikAs by his dAksha yajña (a sacrifice performed at the winter solstice), and daksha’s sacrifice must have invoked the three mothers (mahI, sarasvatI, and iLA), who severally blessed him with twins.

The kRttikAs are close to rohiNI, the “red cow” of Aldebaran in the Taurus constellation, and she is the mother of kAmadhenu (the “cow of plenty”). And kAmadhenu (like arundhatI) belongs to RSi vasiSTha, revealing kAmadhenu as the bovine embodiment of the kRttikA sisters.

kRttika is masculine and kRttikA is feminine, and the kRttikAs (as sisters or mothers or nurses or wives or passions) are feminine. And agni is masculine, while shakti is feminine.

There have been many gautamAs, sons of gotama, in many ages and locations. And a buddha or jina is a kshatriya RSi.

NowHere
22 June 2008, 04:52 PM
Well, it is a very interesting answer.
Obviously, I miss lot of things because I am not at all expert of these matters, which indeed are interesting me quite a lot in this moment.
But I do not understand something: if kRttikA is considered as one, what are those 7+2 names you gave me above? Who are?

So, the seventh wife is a sort of binar star? Like for Sirius? Any Idea about which is the binar star among the ones that yajvan wrote?

It is very interesting this of the 8 and 9 stars on kRttikA...
Exactely the kind of things I am looking for.
And your interpretation of Atlas confirm my suspect that the root of his name must have something to do with the axis or the celestial pole... Not with the sea...

I am impressed that agni is masculine, and even like that he took the seed of Shiva first...
But, well, Shiva made Kartikeya all alone, as Zeus with Athena and partially with Dionysus.

prajApati would be like Chronos in greek mith?
Do you know if he has got some relation with Orion?