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yajvan
22 August 2008, 02:06 PM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~~

Namaste

This post is for the contribution to the pramātaī ¹ and to offer some thoughts that leads one to pramātaṛ ¹ .

I thought to address the subject matter of turīya ( the 4th) and perhaps offer a better basedline on this subject. I ask others that wish to contribute , both by their studies, ideas and if possible actual personal experiences to please contribute to this post.

I hope we can cover

Turīya and some definitions
Awareness or consciousness and its various states
A more refined look at these states of consciousness
How yoga and practice experience these states
Any personal exeriences people wish to contribute
Various techniques
Why is turīya even worth pursuing?
References to āgamas and śastra-s for support and insight
Questions and insightful responses with minimum jalpa (disputes)Introduction
When one talks of spiritual insights, the Divine, or one's advancement in sādhana the conversation crosses the path to turīya. Even if a person is not on any spiritual path, this turīya is at the foundation of consciousness and knowing about it is worthy of one's time and brings merit.

Here on HDF we have addressed this subject many times over the last several years and I believe many have advanced their knowledge on this subject. For those that have interest in these past conversations, I will list them out in the footnotes below.

None of my posts will be exhaustively long as I have learned long posts, overall, are unattractive - so I will comply with that observation. I also will ask for those that contribute ( and I hope it is many from all experiences) limit, to eliminate cut 'n pastes from Web sites that just fill up space. . That is, if you care to insert information do so, but then we ask that you narrate or editorialize the material you offer so we , the reader, does not have to discern what the conclusions or inferences of the article you wish to offer that supports your position or claim.

My position upfront
In yoga there is the intent of going somewhere, to union. This slight intent, this impulse as my teacher would say is something I practice daily. I am on the path. As Svāmi Laksmanjoo has said if you are practicing yoga, then you have not arrived. That is, there is you and your sādhana, and this brings you (daily) to turīya but it has not deposited you into turīyātīta.
So from my practices I have been fortunate to experience this turīya. Yet Svāmi-ji informs us that there are two names turīya and turīyātīta, and with that a different experience occurs; we will see these differences within the various posts and by definition below.

I also take no recognition or claim special knowledge or position other then my personal experience and my studies. This knowledge is from those wiser then me. I have had various guru's and teachers - for this I am fortunate to receive their knowledge, wisdom, and initiation ( dīkṣā & śaktipāta¹) they so graciously offered and passed on to me over the years.

Yet my studies & sādhana continue daily. The blessings I have received from the pundits, muni's, and sages I read allows me to 'connect the dots' more and more. To see how this wisdom is so profound, and how it connects to my direct personal experiences found in meditation and saṁyama.
I never new a time in my life when I was not looking for the Divine, for this I am blessed. If one word helps another aspirant, that can only done by His Hand. With that, lets begin.

Caitanya or Consciousness
We all experience consciousness and use it daily. Yet it seems a bit foreign to us. It is better grasped when it is called awareness. Being aware of working or becoming aware of a sound, an auto that is crossing your path, or even becoming aware that you are now hungry. This is the notion of consciousness.

We tend to be aware of 3 states of consciousness: Waking, Dreaming and Deep Sleep. Three fundamental states that we cycle through day-in-and-day-out. In later posts we can gain a finer resolution of these 3 states if we wish, but from a building-block perspective these 3 states will allow us to better understand the position turīya.

We have 3 states of consciousness we all participate in. Some would argue that we do not experience deep sleep as it’s the absence of experience at that time, yet we wake up and say ' ghee I slept well ' and your friend may say 'Why so?' and you might say ' I do not remember anything! ', as one of the examples of a most restful sleep. Some people say I was out like a light ( hopefully they mean a light that is switched to OFF :))

Let's start with a very fundamental definition of turīya ( some write turya). This means the 4th. But why call it turīya, the 4th? Very simple explanation. It is the next state of consciousness that is in line with the other 3 states mentioned.
That is:
1. jāgrat जाग्रत्- waking
2. svapna ( some write svapana) स्वपन - dreaming; now this dream can come during sleep or even during the day
3. suṣupti - सुषुप्ति - is deep sleep; some call complete unconsciousness; this is no bodily awareness or external awareness at this time.
4. turya तुर्य- the forth or forming the 4th part; yet there are no 'parts' other then turya being 4th in line of wake , dream and sleep or turīya तुरीय a 4th or 4th part

We call it the 4th , as it is next in line; We will get a little more robust as future posts continue i.e. other names and conditions, etc.

Now this turiya is the foundation for all other levels of consciousness i.e. wake, dream and deep sleep. This turiya pervades the other states just mentioned as the 'raw materials' for them to exist.
'But how come I do not experience it like wake or dream?' - Ahhh! the purpose of these posts and discussions; to uncover why this does not occur and the conditions to invite turya to one's experience.

This turiya is there and can be experienced during any one of the 'gaps' or junction points, some like to call this saṁdhyā - the junction point between dusk and dawn; There are many, but lets keep it simple. Some call this gap sandhyā, the junction or holding together point , the gap.
It can be found between any two gaps if one's antenna is tuned accordingly. This is the purpose of upāya-s and dhāraṇā-s, to give the individual a 'tune-up' that will allow the experient ( that would be us) to experience this refined level of awareness in a gap.

There are multiple analogies or metaphors we can use… I am hoping saidevo and atanu will contribute and offer their analogies as they always have good visual examples that we can relate to. Yet let me take a stab at one. This is the notion of light pouring out a window.

Say you are walking at night and you go past a home with the shutters closed. You still can see the light seeping out from the corners. The same way, say you are walking down a dark hall way, with doors to the left and right of you ( say you are in a hotel late at night); you will see light seeping out from around and under the doors, pouring into the hall. Like that, just as one smoothly transfers from one state of consciousness to another, there is sandhyā, this junction between being awake and going into sleep - it is in the junction that this gap can be experienced, if one's antenna is tuned accordingly.

Now, sometimes people have this experience of turiya during the day (I have and will explain in a moment)… One can be thinking about something, then one can enter a dream-like state. This is called day-dreaming and the wise call it jāgratsvapna, dreaming while awake. I think this is not foreign to many. Yet between the wakeful state and this dream experience, this turiya, the 4th, may be encountered. Many have told me of this experience, that as this day-dreaming began, when jāgratsvapna occurred innocently, they experienced another level, of perfect silence, absorption. They did not stay there very long but they new it was not sleep, nor where they dreaming, but felt awake inside.

Another person was a musician. He said as he played, he was adoring, enjoying the music he was playing. His fingers moved without effort, his full attention on listening to the full sound of the music, and then he said all he experienced was 'full awakeness', ' I was not confined nor was I dreaming, I was awake yet in another place'.
Many have this experience and see it as mystical. Why ? because they are not certain of the steps to reproduce the same experience that brought them to turiya.
For me, I was listening to music, effortlessly, and had headphones on. As I listened, turiya would come. I would not push it way, but allow it to occur. This is the key , one cannot 'demand' that turiya comes, it is the innocence of the experient, to set the conditions for this experience to occur. Yet some may call it mystical, that is okay, what is important is , that it is repeatable, and one understands the process and conditions for this experience to happen. You can bring the horse to water they say but you cannot make it drink, applies here. We can only set up the comfortable, non-threatening, easy conditions for this experience to occur and let go.

This is music example is also as a upāya can be found in the Vijñāna Bhairava , 73rd kārikā¹. There is a post on this, and is listed in the footnotes.

Let's stop here and see if anyone wishes to ask questions or contribute to the post. This information offered sets us up to expend the conversation to turīyātīta, that which is beyond.

pranams

words & references

turya तुर्य - the forth or forming the 4th part; yet there are no 'parts' other then turya being 4th in line of wake , dream and sleep or turīya तुरीय a 4th or 4th part
turīyātīta is turīya + atīta - the 4th + beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th. atīta अतीत - gone beyond, past
jalpa जल्प - dispute via an overbearing replay that is intended more for winning a debatethen advancing the conversation
pramātaṛ प्रमातृ - performer of a mental operation that results in correct true conception;
pramātaī - one who has pramātaṛ
śaktipāta शक्तिपात- is defined as prostraction of strength; yet to know this word requires a two part view: śakti is is energy,
power, ability, might + pāta is from pat पत्and this is to take part in, to share or to fall or get into or among; This śaktipāta is to take part in śakti , that is shared from a guru, master, muni, etc. It's said there is 3 types - intense, medium and gentle.
dīkṣā दीक्षा - initiation into a practice, upāya or dhāraṇā that by which one reaches one's aim , a means or expedient
upāya-s उपाय - that by which one reaches one's aim , a means
dhāraṇā धारणा - undistracted instruction; collection or concentration of the mind (joined with the retention of breath); the act of holding , bearing , wearing , supporting , maintaining ;firmness , steadfastness , righteousness
caitanya चैतन्य - Consciousness
saṁdhyā - the junction point bwtween dusk and dawn; or some call it sandhyā s junction or the holding together point , the gap.
Past turiya conversations on HDF:
The Import of Turiya: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822)
The Summary of the import of Turiya: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2050 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2050)
Finding Turiya : http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996)
Vijñāna Bhairava , 73rd kārikā HDF post: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=19415&postcount=10 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=19415&postcount=10)

yajvan
24 August 2008, 08:26 AM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~~

Namaste



This information offered sets us up to extend the conversation to turīyātīta, that which is beyond.

Let's continue the conversation. From the last post I hope we laid the ground work for turīyā itself as the 4th. Now we take a look at turīyātīta.
Turīyātīta is turīya + atīta : turīya is the 4th + atīta or beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th. So lets see what we have:
1. jāgrat जाग्रत्- waking
2. svapna ( some write svapana) स्वपन- dreaming; now this dream can come during sleep or even during the day
3. suṣupti - सुषुप्ति- is deep sleep; some call complete unconsciousness; this is no bodily awareness or external awareness at this time.
4. turya तुर्य- the forth or forming the 4th part; yet there are no 'parts' other then turya being 4th in line of wake , dream and sleep or turīya तुरीय a 4th or 4th part
5. Turīyātīta is turīya + atīta : -turīya is the 4th + atīta or beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th.

From a 'next in line' perspective Turīyātīta is in fact beyond the 4th, turya, but that is where all similarities end. for those not established in this Turīyātīta this is the best name for it. But for the jnani-s, muni-s, yogin-s the realized ones attributing a name to it is indescribable.
We have used the term uccarā rahitam vastu - the Reality that is devoid of utterance or Indescribable.
Yet the wise try to offer a word, pracaya¹ or totality. We know it is beyond words, beyond thought, but the wise try to give us a notion. In fact they say it is mahā-pracaya, the Great Totality. This is found in the Mālinī Vijaya Tantra, it says the following :

mahā-pracayam-icchanti
turyātitaṁ vicakṣaṇāh||
The bright, radiant (vicakṣaṇāh - bright, splendid ) i.e. the wise desire (icchanti - rooted in iṣ, to desire ) the Great (mahā) Supreme Totality (pracaya) of turyātitaṁ ( beyond the 4th).
I am happy to hear others view point, insights and translations on this sloka from Mālinī Vijaya Tantra ( Chapter 2, 38th śloka)

There is another name that I happen to like that captures this idea of this mahā-pracaya, the Great Totality but in a slightly different way. The word is satatoditam. Svāmi Laksmanjoo offers this word from the Tantrāloka. It is that which has no pause, no break.
This for me really captures the essence of this totality, the fullness. Svāmi-ji says ' It is breakless and unitary. In samādhi it is there and when samādhi is absent it is there. And in sleep it is there; in each and every state of subjective body it is there. If I look at this word I see it as sat + a-tu + dita. Which says to me, that which really is (sat) + not (a) +to have authority (tu) + bound or divided (dita). Or that Reality that cannot be bound or divided.

That is why I have mentioned this turiya as turīyātīta is unbiquitious, in every crack and crevice, every where. The Bṛhadaraṇyaka Upaniṣad says 'it fills us to our (finger) nail ends'. Yet no matter how we try and describe it, we will always fall short of its true nature i.e. uccarā rahitam vastu - Indescribable.

Now that we have a better view of this turīyātīta, we can then suggest the differences in personal experiences. To experience turīya the native becomes absorbed in the 4th. The word absorption is another way of saying samādhi - complete fixity. This samādhi is from the root dhā or being held in place, to hold. The personal experience is of absorption, being held in place, within pure awareness.

Then we look at turīyātīta and the experience is now this pure consciousness , the totality, satatoditam, co-exists with the natives other levels of awareness - wake, dream and sleep. It does not leave. From my personal experience ( which is fleeting i.e. comes and goes in short periods ) it is beyond words, yet one still is entertaining the accustomed levels of awareness of wake or dream or even sleep.

I have mentioned that the experience is different, and this is so because in the experience of turīya and samādhi there is the fullness of pure consciousness and total absorption. Yet with turīyātīta there is the ability to support this turīyātīta plus the existing level of awareness that the individual cycles through, throughout the day and night. How can this occur? This is the refinement of the nervous system, the village of the senses, as my teacher called it.

A simple example of supporting two levels of awareness. Say you need to go to the Airport and you drive there. All along the way you comply to the traffic rules, read the signs and directions to get there, and you may even take a phone call or two on your cell phone. Yet all along the way there is the impression, awareness of the Airport that is in the mind, yet you are doing all these other things. Like that, Being, turīyātīta, Brahman stays with the native in totality without pause or break (satatoditam).

We need a more reliable source to discuss this experience over time. If one wished to read this experience from a muni there are plenty of books offered. One book that has gained merit is from Śrī Nisargadatta Mahārāj's book I am That.

Yet what of talking to just an average person that is interested in pursuing mokśa that could comment on some of these experiences? I met a person that had this experience of turīyātīta in his life for 6 months. This conversation occurred a few years ago. He continues to remind me that no matter what we may think of this state, it is Indescribable when experienced first hand. To those outside of this satatoditam it can only be voiced as turīyātīta. Yet for the experient where this satatoditam is part of one's daily experience, it changes the notion of Reality. If you care to read some of this individual's experiences, here is the HDF post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1524 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1524)

pranams

words & references

maha मह- great, abundant
pracaya प्रचय- totality; accumulation, heap, mass, quantity
vicakṣaṇāhविचक्षण - visible , bright , radiant , splendid
iṣ इष् - to desire , wish, long for, request
tu तु - to have authority
dita दित - bound, divided
sat सत् that which really is, entity or existence, essence; the true being or really existent
turya तुर्य- the forth or forming the 4th part; yet there are no 'parts' other then turya being 4th in line of wake , dream and sleep or turīya तुरीय a 4th or 4th part
turīyātīta is turīya + atīta - the 4th + beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th. atīta अतीत- gone beyond, past
Śrī Nisargadatta Mahārāj - his name Nisargadatta is compounded of Nisarga + datta or granting + gift or offering.

yajvan
25 August 2008, 04:25 PM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~



I hope we can cover
Turīya and some definitions
Awareness or consciousness and its various states
A more refined look at these states of consciousness
How yoga and practice experience these states
Any personal exeriences people wish to contribute
Various techniques
Why is turīya even worth pursuing?
References to āgamas and śastra-s for support and insight
Questions and insightful responses with minimum jalpa (disputes)

Namaste
The question becomes for some, why even pursue this? There are multiple reasons and points of view on this matter. Let me list out a few that I think are relevant.

Improved body-mind coordination. Smoother functioning of the system; A healthier body and mind though the elimination of stress and strain i.e. balanced intellect and balanced disposition.
The unfoldment of one's dharma - sva dharma¹ (individual dharma) connected to sādhāraṇa¹ (collective) dharma i.e. the improvement of the quality of life for society - if you are not a peace with your self how can there be peace within society? - it must start with the unit of society, the individual.
Living the Fullness of life with enjoyment of freedom that accompanies this level of Being
Acting from the level of consciousness that brings no binding actions, no vāsanā-s¹ (seed impressions or conditioning), karma becomes like a roasted seed.
Doing His work - you are absorbed in anuttara ( the Supreme); there's joy.
You do not come back - saṁsāra¹ is brought to a halt.I have also heard 'if I start this practice and I do not attain kevalya, all my efforts have gone to waste'. A reasonable assessment, yet Kṛṣṇa advises us differently. In the Bhāgavad gītā, chapt 2, 40th śloka He says in this (yoga) no effort (abhikrama) is ever lost and no obstacle (pratyavāya¹) exists. Even a little of this dharma delivers (one) from great fear (bhayāt).Kṛṣṇa is saying your efforts will yield results, yet your efforts accompany you going forward. How so ? We need to forward to Chapt 6 śloka 37.

Arjuna asks, what occurs if this yoga is not achieved? Kṛṣṇa says in the following few verses (40 to 44) the he that strayed from yoga is born into the house of the pure and illustrious; or born into a family of yogi-s endowed with wisdom (albeit this is more difficult).There he continues his progress to yoga. Kṛṣṇa says by that former practice ( past life's effort) he is irresistibly borne on ( he continues the pursuit).

pranams

words used

kevalya केवल- liberation ; simple , pure , uncompounded , unmingled ; mokśa
pratyavāya प्रत्यवाय- decrease, diminution, reversed, reverse, contrary course, opposite i.e. obstacle.
bhayāt or bhaya भय- fear, alarm dread apprehension
sva स्व - own, one's own, my own, thy own, his or her own
sādhāraṇa साधारण - applicable to many or all, common to all , universal; " having or resting on the same support or basis"
dharma - root in dhṛ धृ - to uphold, support, maintain , preserve - that which upholds
vāsanā-s वासना - the impression of anything remaining unconsciously in the mind ; residual impression - this is also the root of saṁskāra
saṁskāra संस्कार - putting together , forming well , making perfect
saṁsāra संसार - course , passage , passing through a succession of states , circuit of mundane existence , transmigration; ~ birth-after-birth

Atman
26 August 2008, 04:55 AM
I heard Brahmacharya is necessary to get into turiya.

yajvan
26 August 2008, 09:43 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~



I heard Brahmacharya is necessary to get into turiya.

Namaste Atman,
See what you think of this definition of Brahmacara http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2960&highlight=Brahmacharya
We can the continue the conversation if you wish.

pranams

yajvan
04 September 2008, 10:55 AM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~



There is another name that I happen to like that captures this idea of this mahā-pracaya, the Great Totality but in a slightly different way. The word is satatoditam. Svāmi Laksman-ji offers this word from the Tantrāloka. It is that which has no pause, no break.
This for me really captures the essence of this totality, the fullness. Svāmi-ji says ' It is breakless and unitary. In samādhi it is there and when samādhi is absent it is there. And in sleep it is there; in each and every state of subjective body it is there. If I look at this word I see it as sat + a-tu + dita. Which says to me, that which really is (sat) + not (a) +to have authority (tu) + bound or divided (dita). Or that Reality that cannot be bound or divided.

Namaste

This post is to help connect the dots.

We have reviewed the notion of turya and turīyātīta above. It is quite natural for an individual to think there is 'here' this world of diversity, of duality, some just call the relative field of existence, and then there is this transcendent place. That is, this transcendent is separate from the finite world of things and places, of multiplicity.

If the notion of the Supreme, anuttara, is satatoditam, without break or pause, then the notion of This (here) and That ( the transcendent) would perhaps be a incorrect way of viewing what sattā ( existence, Being) really is.

Abhinavagupta¹ helps us better understand this notion. He offers some thoughts that have helped me better appreciate anuttara. He says the Supreme is sva-prakāśa - One's own + light or illumination. That is the Supreme is self-illuminating, and does not depend upon anything other then its SELF for its Being. It's nature is cidātman - that is Consciousness. The same awareness that pours out of your eyes, ears for hearing, thinking, your attention, etc. is the same consciousness, there is no two.

So one can say His body is saṃvidrūpa. This is saṃvid+rūpa : saṃvid is consciousness + rūpa or form , shape or figure. Why do I mention this? Because this consciousness is present everywhere i.e. satatoditam it is that which has no pause or break. It is completely full, and it is called paripūrṇānuttara ( pari + pūrṇāna + anuttara). So it is pari (fully , abundantly , richly) + pūrṇā (full) + anuttara (Supreme, none can surpass).

If the Supreme has this paripūrṇānuttara as its nature ( some say as its abode dhāma) what then can be outside of it? It cannot be only completely full in the transcendent. It must be completely full both in the Absolute ( transcendent) and the Relative ( duality) of creation.
That is why this experience of turīyātīta is so unique - it is so full, it is indescribable. As mentioned in a previous post above:

the wise try to offer a word, pracaya¹ or totality. We know it is beyond words, beyond thought, but they try to give us a notion. In fact they say it is mahā-pracaya
This Supreme (anuttara) is defined 16 different ways by Abhinavagupta-ji in the Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa. This 16 number is also another way of saying fullness, as the 16th digit indicates competeness and fullness - perhaps we can address at a later date.

So, what are we missing? Why does are eyes no 'see' this ? We are missing para-paśyata - the highest (divine) view of the Universe in its undifferentiated form i.e. satatoditam.

But how can I attain this?


Withdraw then withdraw from the withdraw. We know that these words as sutras ( or stitches, snippets). So people ask withdraw from what? Withdraw from the parts (aṅga) and experience the whole,(aṅgī); then withdraw from the withdrawal i.e. withdraw from that whole or aṅgī, and come back to the parts. Now what's that again?

Withdraw from the duality of life, the parts, diversity (aṅga) and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya ( aṅgī ), then come back to diversity.
What is going on with this? It is the cleaning process that Abhinavagupta suggested in the past post¹:
Just as by washing the dirt or impurity lying in the inner fold of a cloth, the dirt lying on the upper portion ( the outer folds) gets automatically washed or cleansed ; even so, by the removal of the dirt (mala) lying at the subtle levels, the dirt residing at the madhyamā levels get automatically removed.


ॐ शशिशेखराय नमः
om śaśiśekharāya namaḥ
We bow to shashishekhara, the Bearer of the moon


pranams

words and references

Turīyātīta is turīya + atīta : turīya is the 4th + atīta or beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th.
turya तुर्य- the forth or forming the 4th part; yet there are no 'parts' other then turya being 4th in line of wake , dream and sleep or turīya तुरीयa 4th or 4th part
saṃvid स्व - consciousness , perception; to perceive , feel
rūpa रूप - form, shape or figure ;nature, character, mark, sign, likeness, image.
dhāma धाम - abode
maha मह- great, abundant
pracaya प्रचय- totality; accumulation, heap, mass, quantity
paśyata पश्यत - visible, conspicious; paśyat is seeing, beholding; paśyantī पश्यन्ती she stands and looks on ( Śrī Devī )
Abhinava HDF Post on the cloth analogy: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=24223&postcount=4 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=24223&postcount=4)
Abhinavagupta linegage: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150)

bhargavsai
04 September 2008, 12:30 PM
Great Post. Thank You.

yajvan
08 September 2008, 10:11 AM
Hari Oṁ
~~~~~~

Namaste

Note with this 'withdraw' discussion from the above posts, the sādhaka¹ opens him/her self to nirvikalpa¹ - that is a condition free from change or differences. This means the sādhu experiences this pure awareness with the withdrawal from duality, from the parts.

This would be called asaṃprajñāta samādhi if we were talking about the Yoga sūtras (Yogadarśana) of Patañjali. This is called out in Chapter 1, the 18th sūtra of the Yoga sūtras.

There are two flavors:
saṃprajñāta (saṃ+pra+jñāta¹) samādhi - the mind is not fully absorbed ( many like to call this not fully 'arrested')

asaṃprajñāta (a+saṃ+pra+jñāta¹) samādhi - the mind is fully absorbed , and some call objectless samādhi

Lets just say a person is using a mantra, a sound for meditation. Let's say it’s a bīja and the potency of this mantra is realized (mantravīrya¹), then this bīja becomes nir-bīja¹. What's this?
Through the process of 'withdraw' the mind goes inwards, settles down and then finally, with practice and time, experiences asaṃprajñāta samādhi. When this occurs, the vehicle ( bīja ) is left behind (nir).

What occurred? Transcendence to come and experience turīya, fulfilling the 'withdraw' part of the process we have discussed above.

pranams

words used


sādhaka साधक - accomplishing, fulfilling, completing, perfecting , finishing; note how close the word sādaka सादक - exhausting , wearying , destroying is to this word. This almost applies as the sādhaka is also destroying ignorance.
nirvikalpa निर्विकल्प free from change or differences ; no wavering
mantravīrya is mantra + vīrya. Mantra मन्त्र we know as a specific sound , a hymn or sacrificial formula
some call it an instrument of thought + vīrya वीर्य valor , strength , power , energy , luster
nir निर् = nis निस् - or without, away from
saṃ+pra+jñāta:
sam सम् - in this application is to be disturbed, rooted in śam - to become tired, finish, stop, come to an end
pra प्र - is filling, excessively, very, much
jṅātā (jṅātṛ) ज्णाता - is the knower. We have seen this word also used in jṅāna or knowledge; jṅānatā is another name for consciousness.
Hence saṃ+pra+jñāta is the aspirant ( the knower) ~consciousness~ with flux or (disturbances i.e. thoughts) as progressing to/or experiencing samādhi yet not totally absorbed. Hence the samādhi is not stable or continuous, it is disturbed by a thought, or feeling , or something outside of the absorbed state.
Next but putting the "a" in front , we have a+saṃ+pra+jñāta. The "a" means 'not' . So it is one without disturbance, and absorbed in samādhi.
samādhi समाधि - union, a whole, aggregate ; absorption; Absorbed in pure awareness

saidevo
10 September 2008, 11:29 PM
Namaste Yajvan.

Your posts in this thread are immensely interesting, informative, useful and enlightening, as they cover all the key aspects of turIya and turIyAtIta (the fourth and beyond). Thank you for a great thread.



I am hoping saidevo and atanu will contribute and offer their analogies as they always have good visual examples that we can relate to.


Thanks for your compliment. I can indeed think of some everyday analogies that might perhaps relate to these two lofty states of existence.

Perhaps the most useful analogy for every person's perception of turIya is the clock-tick. If we think over it, we would find that any systolic-diastolic beat in time is a candidate for perception of turIya: the clock-tick, our heart-beat, pulse, breathing, the movement of bellows, and any such other act we might think of.

There is more to the clock-tick than meets the eye, or rather the ear. If we keenly listen to the clock-tick, we usually anticipate and hear the tick rather than the silence. Our mind simply skips the silence and dwells on the sound, though the silence is as audible as the sound! So the trick to perception of turIya here is to anticipate and hear the silence rather than the sound. Not to brood over the silence or sound, but just to be aware more of the silence than the sound.

What is the nature of the silence and sound involved in a clock-tick, any way? In one sense, we can say that the eternal silence of turIya is perforated, as it were, by the ticks. Does this mean that there are holes in the silence created by the sound? They can't be because, as you say, turIya is the substratum of all manifestations which are projected over it. So, when the tick happens, it creates a dent rather than a hole, in the infinite ocean of the eternal silence of turIya. And the silence rushes in to fill up the dent as tick is over! We can have an idea of turIyAtIta in this analogy, when we train our mind to forget both the silence and the sound and focus awareness on what lies beneath them, which is, I think, the Universal Consciousness whose nature is sat-chit-Ananda (existence-knowledge-bliss).

Another analogy we can think of is the rhythmic fall of water drops from a tap into a metal vessel beneath it. Say we can clock the rhythm to a second or less, so we can be aware of the sound and silence they generate. With an empty vessel, we hear loud clanks that drown the silence. As the water level rises in the vessel, we hear the sound in plops and the silence between them is more marked. The water drops also generate a bubble or two, which cluster around for sometime before they burst noiselessly into silence. When a bubble grows big enough, we can of course hear the soft pop of its bursting. As with the clock-tick, we can have an idea of the silence of turIya here by focussing awareness on the moments of silence.

Now, if we adjust the tap so the water flows as a continuous thread that has no breaks, we would find that the bubbles appear less in number, and smaller in size, and at one point they completely vanish, so the water flows like a column of silence from the tap to the surface of the level in the vessel and then spreads out over it in silence. This state may be likenened to the state of turIyAta.

In the two systolic-diastolic analogies of clock-drick and tap-water-drops, the sounds are of a shorter duration. A quartz clock or watch typically beats at one second intervals. That is, the time of silence between ticks is one second. Those who are familiar with the older, mechanical clocks and watches might know that they beat in half-second intervals: that is, instead of the sequence of tick--silence--tick of the quartz clocks, they generate the sequence of tick-tick--silence--tick-tick.

I bought a Henry Sandoz mechanical wrist watch in March 1971 for my university examinations and was wearing it until May 2008, thus for over 37 years! Of course, I would have done repairs and services to the watch at least four or five times during this time, but it worked very well and I was fond and proud of it! Recently, it stopped working, so I changed it to a quartz watch, keeping the old dial. With this mechanical watch, I found it difficult to focus awareness on the tiny half-second intervals of silence. And in fact there is another interval of silence, far tinier, within the double tick-tick!

The normal rate of our heart-beat and pulse is 72 times a minute. It is more difficult even to consistently feel and concentrate on the intervals of silences in them. However, I think, they can make us gaze into ourselves and dilute our thoughts than more than the clock-tick does. To focus awareness on our inner sensations is a sure-fire technique of relaxation.

Our breathing is more drawn out and subjective in its three phases of pUraka (inhaling), rechaka (exhaling) and the kumbhaka (silence) between the two. The silence phase here is normally far less marked, so breath-watching is more used as a technique of relaxation rather than for perceiving turIya, unless one practices prANAyAma.

Our breathing is akin to the mantra AUM which has three phases: A (AtmA, awareness of Self), U (anAtmA, awareness and negation of Not-Self) and M (turIya, silence). The silence in AUM is more drawn out, however, and chanting the mantra is a good way to perceive turIyA, in my opinion.

As you have pointed out, the key in all these analogies is to focus awareness on the silence phases, in a natural manner, without forcing it.

I have some thoughts and questions on turIya, which I shall discuss in a separte post.

Sudarshan
11 September 2008, 06:26 AM
How does one know he has reached turIya?

There is the flush of immense bliss true to one's intrinsic nature, and the great awareness of the true nature of everything that exists- Brahman, Ishvara, cit and acit. There is nothing that one does not know in that state.

Normally our consciousness is outward. We feel that we are small beings living inside a vast universe. In turIya samAdhi, the awareness is reversed. The universe we see becomes an insignificant grain of sand, and we realize our true infinite nature transcending beyond time and space. The whole of cosmos looks like a small bag suspended on the fabric of consciousness that is turIya. Such infinite knowledge and bliss experienced makes one know that he has reached it. When you percieve your own nature to be vastly bigger ( and complete) than than the entire cosmos of dualty, you have attained turIya.

yajvan
11 September 2008, 11:39 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Saidevo (et.al)
Thank you for your post and great examples. I hope others take the time to enjoy and read them as they help understand this turīya a bit better.
One of your examples resonated with my personal experience:

I bought a Henry Sandoz mechanical wrist watch in March 1971 for my university examinations and was wearing it until May 2008, thus for over 37 years! Of course, I would have done repairs and services to the watch at least four or five times during this time, but it worked very well and I was fond and proud of it! Recently, it stopped working, so I changed it to a quartz watch, keeping the old dial. With this mechanical watch, I found it difficult to focus awareness on the tiny half-second intervals of silence. And in fact there is another interval of silence, far tinier, within the double tick-tick!

Years ago (1976) I was just sitting and meditating. The surroundings were absolutely still. Due to this silence, I could hear the tick-tick of my watch. I thought, how interesting , so I just listened.

What was interesting was not the tick-tick's but the underlying silence that pervaded the room and the only sound was the ticks that put a ripple in that silence.

It become apparent to me that the tick-ticks were not measuring any given hour or minute of the day but the 'eternity' that underlies the sound, the silence that was there.

No matter how busy one gets, how many thoughts there are in the mind or how many errands one needs to accomplish that same silence is there all day, night, year, and eternity.

Albeit a simple experience but profound ( for me) as I remember it to this day.

pranams

saidevo
11 September 2008, 11:49 PM
Namaste Yajvan, Sudarshan and others.

Let me now discuss some of my thoughts/doubts/questions on turIya. Please add clarity and corrections to these impressions of mine.

1. The three normal states of existence, waking-dreaming-sleeping are manifest in space and time, though space and time is not perceived in deep sleep. They can be mapped to the three planes or worlds of consciousness: physical-astral-mental (bhU-bhuvas-suvar). For a common man, the awareness is focussed only on a related world in a given state of existence, and breaks when the state changes, which is why he/she cannot remember dreams or the bliss of deep sleep.

What about turIya? As we have discussed above, turIya is the infinitely pervading, eternally existing silence of blissful consciousness which is experienced by every person in the tiny moments such as between two breaths, thoughts or clock-ticks. So, would it be right to say that turIya is also a state manifest in space and time and maps to the causal (kAraNa) plane or world, the fourth in the seven-world series bhU-bhuvar-suvar-mahar-jana-tapa-satyam?

If so, would turIyAtIta comprise the three higher planes jana-tapa-satyam?

2. Our Puranas say that the nature of Absolute Truth is not completely realized by even Brahma. The TrimUrtis constantly meditate on the Self even as they go about playing their roles in manifest creation.

So it seems to me, that as humans experiencing sustained turIya in meditation, we can only reach the causal (mahar) world, a world which is the abode of sages and survives destruction in the times of normal Pralayas.

3. It should be noted that once a soul gets past the tribhuvana (three worlds) bhU-bhuvas-suvar it attains mokSha (liberation) from birth and death. The paths open to the soul at this stage are: to merge its identity with Brahman, to reside in Brahman with its identity intact or take voluntary birth to reside in the mental and astral planes or even being born in physical plane for the spiritual advancement of mankind.

4. The seven worlds and its occupants are:
(http://bijjamsnaps.blogspot.com/2005/09/14-bhuwanas.html)

• satya-loka: World of eternity where Brahma and Sarasvati live.

• tapa-loka: World of the four SanatKumaras: Sanata, Sanatana, Sanaka, Sananda. This is the first world that Brahma creates. Thereafter, Shiva creates his female aspect Shakti and lets Brahma proceed further with creation of his seven mAnasa putras and their descendants.

• jana-loka: World of the seven mAnasa putras atri, vasishtha, AngIrasa, marichi, bhrigu, daksha, pulasthya.

• mahar-loka: World of the remaining sages.

• suvarga-loka: World of devas such as Indra, Agni, Vayu, etc. The heaven were human souls reside to enjoy the fruits of their good karma.

• bhuvar-loka: The astral world populated by Yakshas, Kinneras, Kimpurushaas, Gandharvaas and disembodied human souls.

• bhU-loka: The physical world of humans and other living beings, where humans experience the results of their karma and learn to advance spiritually.

The higher worlds map to the seven chakras, starting from sahasrAra.

5. Apart from these seven higher worlds, there are seven nether worlds, called pAtAla-lokas. They are:

• atala: World of Mayasura, RavaNa's father-in-law and a devotee of Shiva. He is the expert-architect of the Asuras just as Visvakarma is the expert-architect of the Devas.

• vitala: World of GaNas, created by Shiva.

• sutala: World of King Bali. VishNu in his Vamana Avatara blessed him to be the equivalent of Indra in this nether world.

• talAtala: World of the three demon brothers whom Shiva killed in the battle of Tripura.

• mahAtala: World of Kadru, daughter of Daksha, wife of Kashyapa and mother of the NAgas. Kashyapa was the grandson of Brahma, born of his mAnasa-putra Marichi. The children of Kadru are all snakes, considered cousins of Garuda. Garuda's mother was Vinutha, a sister of Kadru. Garuda's elder brother is AruNa, charioteer to the Sun God.

• rasAtala: World of Diti, Danu and their children called DaityAs and DanavAs. Diti and Danu were daughters of Daksha and wives of Kashyapa.

• pAtAla: World of special snakes such as Vasuki, Takshak, Anata Naaga, who were also sons of Kadru.

The nether worlds map to the lower seven chakras below mUlAdhara that cater to the lower self.

Even though everything except the Absolute Truth of Brahman is the result of the material veil of Maya, Hinduism gives a detailed world-order and paths marked by various milestones, for every human being, irrespective of religion, creed or caste, towards Self-Realization, which can only be gradual but progressive, depending on our spiritual levels and efforts.

soham3
12 September 2008, 07:46 AM
Turiya means chaturtha or fourth. State beyond the deep sleep is the zero or the first state and it always exists beyond the mental clutterings.

yajvan
12 September 2008, 06:54 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Yajvan, Sudarshan and others.

Let me now discuss some of my thoughts/doubts/questions on turIya. Please add clarity and corrections to these impressions of mine.

What about turIya? As we have discussed above, turIya is the infinitely pervading, eternally existing silence of blissful consciousness which is experienced by every person in the tiny moments such as between two breaths, thoughts or clock-ticks. So, would it be right to say that turIya is also a state manifest in space and time and maps to the causal (kAraNa) plane or world, the fourth in the seven-world series bhU-bhuvar-suvar-mahar-jana-tapa-satyam?

Namaste saidevo.
First thank you for your well thought out post. Just a few notions or ideas and we can move the conversation deeper, or forward, however brings the most value.

There is no doubt that this turiya is the substratum for all other levels of consciousness. On one hand this turiya is there for all to experience as you mention. It is found between the tick of a clock or between two breaths, but let me add an additional POV to this thinking.

Turiya can be found there, in these gaps, sandhyā . Yet if the person is thinking, "Ahha I am viewing this gap" and using his/her awareness to do it, then the Turiya experience is not occurring (unless one is a muni), due to the fact that turiya is the awareness of that experience itself. The 'experience' is pure awareness itself, turned back on ltself. That is why it is considered the 4th as it is not about wake, dream or sleep.

Now when you offer the 4th plane of mahaḥ, this is a most beautiful concept. We have bhuh, bhuvah suvha + mahaḥ + janaha , tapaya, satyam ( we know these as vyāhṛti-s or sacred utterances). Bhuh + bhuvah+ suvah can be considered the 3 lower and janaha + tapaya + satya are considered the 3 higher.
What connects the lower to the higher? ...this mahaḥ. According to rishi Mahachamasyaḥ this mahah is Brahman, same as ātman. It connects the lower to the higher. And according to Svāmi Svāmi Śivananda this ātman, has its root in vyap, to cover. So this mahaḥ 'connects' by covering all. This is the ~connection~ of finding turiya, as it covers all, permeates all, yet is so subtle, we pass it by. Our anntena has yet to be tuned to this station.

So , when we talk of turiya we are stuck with words - and they tend to get in the way. Yet this satatoditam is attractive to use.

The word satatoditam suggests the notion here. Svāmi Laksmanjoo offers this word from the Tantrāloka. It is that which has no pause, no break.
Why mention it? Because of the notion of mahaḥ aligning with satatoditam. Hence no clear lines of distinction, of covering and engulfing all, and that which has no break or pause.

As we discussed earlier - this turiya as turīyātīta is unbiquitious, in every crack and crevice, every where. The Bṛhadaraṇyaka Upaniṣad says 'it fills us to our (finger) nail ends'. Yet no matter how we try and describe it, we will always fall short of its true nature i.e. uccarā rahitam vastu - Indescribable.

I am in hopes this assists in developing the convesation a bit more... Please feel free to poke on these ideas as you see fit.


pranams

saidevo
14 September 2008, 08:22 AM
Namaste Yajvan.

The POV you have added is precise: turIya is obtained as pure awareness only, without the person experiencing it being mentally conscious of the state. For ordinary persons, this awareness is perhaps like the field of our vision where we are aware of the presence of many things around though we do not focus our attention on them. Once we do that, that object we focus on dims the overall awareness of the surroundings. In perhaps the same way, turIya is experienced by an overall, general awareness of its silence and bliss, which would be lost when a thought tries to bring it into focus. This is because turIya remains as expanded consciousness until a thought localizes it to the subject of thought.

Yogis and munis, however, as you have said, are permanently established in turIya, so they can get in and out of thoughts that arise in their shuddha manas (pure mind), without losing the awareness of turIya.

As you have said, mahar loka (the fourth plane), the world of turIya manifest in AkAsha (space), is the bridge that connects the upper and lower triads in the seven world hiearchy. The corresponding chakra that maps to this world is the anAhata (heart chakra), whose main expression is love. No wonder then, that the bliss experienced in the state of turIya pervades the consciousness that flows as altruistic love.

Your statement that according to Rishi Mahachamsya, the mahar loka, the fourth vyAhriti is Brahman, the same as Atman, is found in Taittiriya Upanishad, which mentions that he was the son of Lord Yama and was the first to acquire the qualification to know about the fourth state.

That the state of turIya as mahar loka connecting, permeating and wrapping up the higher three worlds of Gods and the lower three of humans throws up some recollections, even as it baffles by its complexity:

• The first manifestation of NirguNa Brahman after IT became SaguNa Brahman was AkAsha (space/ether). As NAdha Brahman he then created the OmkAra (AUM) that resonated through the infinite space. The silence phase of the AUM is the silence of turIya, forever existing in all the worlds that were created later.

• Puranas mention that Brahma the creator, divided the HiraNya-Garbha he was born in into two halves, keeping AkAsha in between. Then he proceeded to create the fourteen worlds. Possibly the space he kept as a bridge to the upper and lower worlds represents the state of turIya, the mahar loka.

• Brahman as the essence of turIya is located in the mahar loka, the abode of Brighu and other sages. However, this world is also destroyed at the end of the existing Kalpa, absorbing the inhabitants into the higher worlds!

Here is a summary of the four states of existence for quick reference:

States of Existence
• waking, jAgrat, vishva/vaishvanAra (relating to mortal life)
• dreaming, svapna, taijasa (luminous)
• deep sleep, suShupti, prajna (consciousness)
• fourth, turIya, turIya (fourth and of four parts)

Apprehension of the Reality of Brahman/Atman
• waking: non-apprehension (cause) and misapprehension (avidyA) (effect)
• dreaming: non-apprehension (cause) and misapprehension (avidyA) (effect)
• deep sleep: non-apprehension of Reality and of duality (cause)
• fourth: non-apprehension of duality (no cause, no effect)

Associated guNa (Visishtadvaita concept)
• waking: buddhi (intelligence) transformed by sattva guNa
• dreaming: buddhi (intelligence) transformed by rajo guNa
• deep sleep: buddhi (intelligence) transformed by tamo guNa
• fourth: pure Self as nirguNa (without attributes)

Duration of the State
• waking: temporary and cyclic in a world of objects with subjective experience
• dreaming: temporary and cyclic in a subjective world
• deep sleep: temporary and cyclic but no subject or objects
• fourth: eternal as the substratum, and conscious of all other states

Some Quotes

VII: Turiya is not that which is conscious of the inner (subjective) world, nor that which is conscious of the outer (objective) world, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is a mass of consciousness. It is not simple consciousness nor is It unconsciousness. It is unperceived, unrelated, incomprehensible, uninferable, unthinkable and indescribable. The essence of the Consciousness manifesting as the self in the three states, It is the cessation of all phenomena; It is all peace, all bliss and non—dual. This is what is known as the Fourth (Turiya). This is Atman and this has to be realized.

10 Turiya, the changeless Ruler, is capable of destroying all miseries. All other entities being unreal, the non—dual Turiya alone is known as effulgent and all—pervading.

-- Gaudapada's Karika on Mandukya Upanishad Verse VII

This fourth state, Turiya, is the real Self or true Self. One with direct experience of this expands to Universal Consciousness.
-- Mandukya Upanishad, verse 12

II.4. There are five AvasthA-s (states): jAgrat (waking), svapna (dreaming), suShupti (dreamless sleeping), the turIya (fourth) and turyatita (that beyond the fourth)...

II.5. The Yogin is one that has realised Brahman that is all-full beyond turIya.

-- (from "Mandala Brahmana Upanishad", Translated by K. Narayanasvami Aiyar)

From Ramana Maharshi

"Why is the Self described both as the fourth state (turIya) and beyond the fourth state (turyatita)?"

Ramana Maharshi replies:

"turIya means that which is the fourth. The experiencers (jIva-s) of the three states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep, known as vishva, taijasa and praj~nA, who wander successively in these three states, are not the Self. It is with the object of making this clear, namely that the Self is that which is different from them and which is the witness of these states, that it is called the fourth (turIya). When this is known, the three experiencers disappear and the idea that the Self is a witness, that it is the fourth, also disappears. That is why the Self is described as beyond the fourth (turyatita)."

-- (from, "Spiritual Instruction" no. 8.)

D.: What is turiya?

M.: There are three states only, the waking, dream and sleep. turIya is not a fourth one; it is what underlies these three. But people do not readily understand it. Therefore it is said that this is the fourth state and the only Reality. In fact it is not apart from anything, for it forms the substratum of all happenings; it is the only Truth; it is your very Being. The three states appear as fleeting phenomena on it and then sink into it alone. Therefore they are unreal.

-- (Talk 353.)

References:
http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/turiya_peter.htm
http://avgwarrier.blogspot.com/2007_10_16_archive.html

yajvan
14 September 2008, 12:26 PM
Hari oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste Saidevo


Thank you for the post, your assessments and research...very clear and succinct.

Perhaps when we get comfortable with the knowledge here we can even extend it to the states or conditions of the pramātṛin ( the perceiver, the experient).
With the examples we have talked about - we have laid the 'plumbing' in place. Yet we must ask if others are ready and comfortable to go deeper and wider.

'Deeper' suggests a body of knowledge in the mālinī-vijatottara tantra (Chapt 1 ślokas 14 to 17) that review the various 'conditions' of the experient; just as you have so richly called out wake, dream, sleep, etc. this body of knowledge talks of the following

sakala ( sa+kala)
pralayākala (pralaya + kala)
vijñānākalā
śuddhavidya
mantreśvara
mantra maheśvara
Śiva(Definitions to the list above will be offered once the conversation begins)

These conditions or ~states~ outline the observer (the experient, the pramātṛin) as he/she relates to the observed, until the observer realizes he/she is also the observered, there is no two i.e. Śiva, anuttara. These 7 conditions (of consciousness) take us from total unawareness to total full awareness.

Since there is an observed and observer, it infers some blemish or mala-s are active. So this is a most robust look at Consciousness-experience-experiencer-mala.

I mention this as turīya¹ is a key part of the conversation, an ingredient, as is turīyātīta¹. For this conversation extends the turya to new depths we have as yet considered on HDF.

But if it does not serve the reader and may be a bit advanced, my recommendation is we continue to build out the turya conversion.
How will we know that the conversation on turya is moving forward? When there are more participants and questions - perhaps even personal experiences are offered.


pranams

words

turya तुर्य - the forth or forming the 4th part; yet there are no 'parts' other then turya being 4th in line of wake, dream and sleep or turīya तुरीय a 4th or 4th part
turīyātīta is turīya + atīta - the 4th + beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th; atīta अतीत - gone beyond, past

yajvan
22 September 2008, 10:48 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste

I wrote

This is found in the Mālinī Vijaya Tantra, it says the following :
mahā-pracayam-icchanti
turyātitaṁ vicakṣaṇāh||
The bright, radiant (vicakṣaṇāh - bright, splendid ) i.e. the wise desire (icchanti - rooted in iṣ, to desire ) the Great (mahā) Supreme Totality (pracaya) of turyātitaṁ ( beyond the 4th).
I am happy to hear others view point, insights and translations on this sloka from Mālinī Vijaya Tantra ( Chapter 2, 38th śloka)


I asked a friend for his interpretation of the total 2nd couplet of the 38th śloka, and he provided the following.

प्रचयंरूपातीतंचसम्यक्तुर्यमुदाहृतं।
महाप्रचयमिच्छन्तितुर्यातीतंविचक्षणाः॥३८॥
Pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
Mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ||38||

Turya -the fourth state of consciousness-- (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly (samyák) pracaya -lit. the Mass- (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond rūpastha or deep sleep- (rūpá-atītam). The wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (to attain) (icchanti) mahāpracaya -lit. the Great Mass - (mahāpracayam) (also known as) turyātīta - lit. beyond the fourth - (turya-atītam) ||38||

Pracaya, rūpātīta and turya are synonymous. This is the meaning of the first line in the stanza. In turn, Pracaya or the Mass is so called because it is made of a mass of Pure Consciousness. This Mass is also declared to be Bindú, the fourth body where one experiences the fourth state of consciousness (turya).
The wise seek to attain the Great Mass which lies even beyond the fourth body, i.e. beyond the fourth state of consciousness. This sublime condition is said to be "the state beyond Turya", where one transcends all his four bodies and rests only on Pure Consciousness, his true Essence. All in all, turyātīta and mahāpracaya and synonymous.


pranams

yajvan
24 September 2008, 02:10 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


Namaste




Withdraw then withdraw from the withdraw. We know that these words as sutras ( or stitches, snippets). So people ask withdraw from what? Withdraw from the parts (aṅga) and experience the whole,(aṅgī); then withdraw from the withdrawal i.e. withdraw from that whole or aṅgī, and come back to the parts. Now what's that again?

Withdraw from the duality of life, the parts, diversity (aṅga) and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya ( aṅgī ), then come back to diversity


We have reviewed this withdraw and withdrawal idea in the above posts. There is a simplier way of saying this with the word āgamana आगमन. It means coming or approaching then returning. It is rooted in āgam, to come near or fall into, then to leave or return.


Like that the sādhu falls into this fullness (aṅgī the whole) then comes back to the parts (aṅga or diversity). This is done day-in-and-day out. More and more of sattā ( Being, Pure Consciousness) is infused into the native each time.


But what occurs along the way, when the sādhu is not engrossed in the whole (aṅgī) ? Viśrama is being seated within him/her. What is this viśrama? It is quiet, the silence of Being, it is the sāma ( balance) that is being established - some call this repose. Yet this word also suggests something a bit more profound - it is the absorption into delight. The native gains the silence and quiet, yet with time the infusion of rama comes . For this, it is a worthy of one's time and attention.

pranams

words

sattā सत्ता - existence , being
viśrama विश्रम - rest , repose , quiet , relaxation;
vis विश् is to be absorbed, to come into conjunction +
rama रम pleasing , delighting , rejoicing

yajvan
09 November 2008, 11:29 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namaste

What is all the interest by many sadhu's to attain this turiya? It is advised by the wise and by Kṛṣṇa.
What is the key benefit ? It is that of nirvikalpa¹, free from change or differences. This fulfills Kṛṣṇa's instructions in the Bhāgavad gītā to be without the 3 guna-s and to be establish in yoga ( Chapt 2 śloka 45 & 48).

But why one can (continue) to ask? The answer IMHO is the first sūtra found in the Śiva sūtra-s¹, commentary by Kṣemarāja ( called Śiva sūtra Vimarśinī). Since it is a sūtra (a stitch) it is very terse, in fact it is one compound word: caitanyātmā.

That is all that is written caitanyātmā. Yet the depth and breath of this one word holds the truth of nirvikalpa, of Kṛṣṇa's direction to Arjuna, and the end of the path for the yogi or yoginī.
In the next post I will offer what I know from a kaśmir śaivism point of view and the wisdom offered by Svāmī Lakṣman-jū¹.

pranams

words & references:
Śiva sūtra-s - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2078 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2078)
Svāmī Lakṣman-jū - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150)
nirvikalpa निर्विकल्प- free from change or differences ; not wavering

yajvan
10 November 2008, 11:28 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~





But why one can (continue) to ask? The answer IMHO is the first sūtra found in the Śiva sūtra-s¹, commentary by Kṣemarāja ( called Śiva sūtra Vimarśinī). Since it is a sūtra (a stitch) it is very terse, in fact it is one compound word: caitanyātmā.



Namaste

If we look at this word caitanyātmā we see caitanya +atmā. We know atma as ātman आत्मन्, the essence, the highest personal principle - the reality of everything. And we know caitanya चैतन्य as consciousness , pure intelligence, the Universal SELF. So with this one compound word caitanyātmā, this sūtra tells us the Supreme SELF, Pure consciousness is the reality, the essence of everything.
This Supreme makes others conscious, as it is the essence of everything. Svāmī Lakṣman-jū comments and says caitanya means complete independence. This is at the crux of attaining this level of being (sattā).

Kṣemarāja suggests and views ātmā to mean 'form'. Hence the first sūtra then reads ' This Supreme independence state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form (ātmā). So, now we wait for Kṣemarāja-ji to finish the sentence - we think ' the form of what?''. He does not say. Hence we deduce and are guided by the wise to say the form of everything. Kṣemarāja-ji is telling us caitanyātmā is the form of ( the essence of) everything , there is no-thing It is not.

This state of being then is the Independent state - it is support less. It is completely full in itself, it is Supreme (anuttara¹). This is the reason for its attractiveness to the yogi and yogini. It's Independence is beyond the 3 guna-s. This state of Independence says Svāmī Lakṣman-jū is svātantraya i.e. complete freedom, complete independence.

This is the fruit of one's sadhana - this independence, this freedom beyond the changing world of the 3 guna-s. This fulfills Kṛṣṇa's instructions found in the Bhāgavad gītā, to be established in yoga, and be without the 3 guna-s

pranams

words

ātman आत्मन् - is the essence, the highest personal priinciple - the reality of everything; ātman is also defined as the breath , what could be more essential then the breath?
svātantrya - absolute freedom
nirvikalpa निर्विकल्प- free from change or differences ; not wavering
cetanā चेतना- is consicsiousness.
caitanya चैतन्यConsciousness , intelligence, sensation, Universal Soul
niśkala निष्कल- without parts , undivided ; This is used then wouthout parts or divisions that was used with thre word kalā.
anuttara अनुत्तर- chief , principal; yet it is that which is unsurpassable; Abhinavaguputa says IT ( this state of Being) is the experient all and there is no other that can make IT his/her object of experience

yajvan
11 November 2008, 03:11 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~





Yogis and munis, however, as you have said, are permanently established in turIya, so they can get in and out of thoughts that arise in their shuddha manas (pure mind), without losing the awareness of turIya.
Here is a summary of the four states of existence for quick reference:

States of Existence
• waking, jAgrat, vishva/vaishvanAra (relating to mortal life)
• dreaming, svapna, taijasa (luminous)
• deep sleep, suShupti, prajna (consciousness)
• fourth, turIya, turIya (fourth and of four parts)


Namaste
It is very interesting to note how wake, dream and sleep have a different meanings when viewed from a yogī/yoginī perspective i.e. their practice.

When the yogī is in meditation (dhāraṇā) it is like jāgrat or waking. This is at the beginning of dhāraṇā where the yogī begins and is one-pointed on his/her practice.
When this one-pointed-ness is repeated i.e. the continuity of practice on a mantra or concept or idea, that is the practice remains unbroken , for the yogī this is svapna or dream. Why so? It is more refined and introverted awareness as the yogī goes inwards.
Now as this inward march continues the yogī transcends both the objective and subjective world. What is left is samādhi - just pure being (sattā), pure consciousness, pure awareness. for the yogī this is like suṣupti - dreamless state we call deep sleep. Yet for the yogī he/she resides in perfection - some may call this turya.

The yogī that is able to do this march with intent ( that is active vs. passive ) is considered a vīra वीर -hero.
When the vīra establishes this state of being and it remains there on its own in wake , dream and sleep he/she becomes established in THAT which is beyond the 4th, and is called turyātitaṁ. This is the Independent state that was mentioned in the post above this one.

It is Independent because it never overshadowed by the other transitory states of consciousness - wake, dream or sleep. S/he is filled with ānanda rasa - the bliss ( joy) of this level of existence, Universal Self.

pranams

yajvan
12 November 2008, 01:03 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~



When the vīra establishes this state of being and it remains there on its own in wake , dream and sleep he/she becomes established in THAT which is beyond the 4th, and is called turyātitaṁ. This is the Independent state that was mentioned in the last post



Namaste

What of this state of Being (sattā), being established and stablised? The Śiva sūtras, 12th śloka says the yogī is filled with vismaya which is wonder, surprise, amazement.

The 12th śloka reads vismayo yogabhūmikāḥ¹. Svāmī Lakṣman-jū suggests that the yogī entering into the Consciousness is joyful and has an uncommonly charming experience. What I find interesting is the notion that this condition is never satiated. The yogī, says Svāmī-ji, is bathed with amazement of this joy. This yogī has become one with the Supreme, limitless-ness itself. For me this then makes sense that the wonder is there along with the uplifment of joy that does not subside.

Its said in the Kulayukta śāstra , When yogī-s percieve the state of the SELF by their own effort then in their own SELF they perceive the fullness of wonder filled with joy.
The Spanda kārikā-s say, for him being wonderstruck and filled with wonderful joy there is no possibility of traveling the path of repeated births and deaths.

pranams

words

yoga योग - the act of yoking, joining;union
vismaya विस्मय wonder , surprise , amazement; free from pride or arrogance
bhūmi भूमि - place, position, posture
bhūmikā भूमिका - a spot, or a place.

yajvan
13 November 2008, 11:59 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~



The yogī, says Svāmī-ji, is bathed with amazement of this joy. This yogī has become one with the Supreme, limitless-ness itself


Namaste
What then occurs for this individual who is no longer 'individual'. The Śiva sūtras, 13th śloka says, iccāśakttirūmā kumāri . The yogī/yoginī's will (iccā) becomes the energy (śakti) of the Supreme. The yogī/yoginī becomes ūmā and kumāri.

Many at first glance will say, ahhh! the individual becomes ūmaऊम, a companion, the helper, friend. Some others may say this is umā उमा, wife of śiva ( pārvatī ). Both explainations fit the sūtra well. Yet Svāmī Lakṣman-jū tells us in this case umā refers to the indepentent consciousness of the Supreme called svātantraya.
This refers back to the first sutra offered, caitanyātmā. Svāmī-ji comments and says caitanya means complete independence, svātantraya. This is at the crux of attaining this level of being (sattā).

What then of the word kumāri ? The will ( iccā) of the yogī/yoginī is called kumārī¹. Svāmī-ji tells us that this word stems from krīḍā क्रीडा, which means to sport, play, amusement. I see the connection with kumāra & kumārī (boy and girl children) as their time is that of sport and play (krīḍā). Svāmī-ji comments and says this kumārī then is that energy ( śakti ) that plays and sports in the Universe creating, protecting and destroying.

Svāmī-ji extends one's thinking and suggests kumārī¹ may be understood as kuṁ mārayati. He defines kuṁ and differented perception ( duality of perception) and mārayati as that which destroys this duality.

Svāmī-ji extends/explains the sūtra in two ways:
His will is the energy of Lord Śiva and it is called ūmā and it is called kumāri.
-or-
For such a yogi his will is one with the energy of Lord Śiva , unobstructable, completely independent , always given to play.

pranams

words

kumārī कुमारी - has multiple meadings (as usual!). A young girl from 1 to 12 years of age; a meter; a certain type of plant; a river flowing; the center of the universe; for me, the notion of the young girl makes sense as there is her sport and play ant her young age , and being a woman is considered śakti, energy.
kumāra कुमार - a boy, youth, son; also means pure gold; another name for agni; a prince , heir-apparent associated in the kingdom with the reigning monarch.
kumāra is also ku+māra - ku which implies deterioration + māra is killing or destroying.

yajvan
09 December 2008, 11:30 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namaste


Withdraw then withdraw from the withdraw. We know that these words as sutras ( or stitches, snippets). So people ask withdraw from what? Withdraw from the parts (aṅga) and experience the whole,(aṅgī); then withdraw from the withdrawal i.e. withdraw from that whole or aṅgī, and come back to the parts. Now what's that again?

Withdraw from the duality of life, the parts, diversity (aṅga) and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya ( aṅgī ), then come back to diversity

This notion of 'withdraw¹' is another way of saying transcend. Do we find this in the agama-s¹? If we look to the Vijñāna Bhairava 149th kārikā
it says:
When all five elements (pañca mahābhūta-s i.e. earth, water, fire, air, space) all the organs (pañca tanmātra-s or smell, taste, form, etc) , organs of perception ( the pañca jñānendriya-s i.e. eye or organ or seeing, ear or organ of hearing, etc. ) including the mind (manas) are offered in the fire of the great abode of the void (mahā-śūnyālaye) using the sacrificial ladle ( srukpātra) of awareness, that is in the real sense, the great fire (agni) sacrifice (havana).

This outlines the sacrifice of transcending ( withdrawing ) from the relative field of creation i.e. the space of size, shape, time, material and residing in the the other fullness of pure consciousness. The relative field of the individual of the senses, the mind, the organ of the senses become the haviḥ, the offering.

This is the process of transcending (withdraw) immersion into pure consciousness, then returning ( withdraw from the withdrawal) to the field of the senses, of space, time, cause, size, big and small.

One may ask then why return at all? why not just stay immersed in the Absolute? This will be the subject for the next post.


pranams

words

āgama आगम - what has come down from tradition; śāstra-s
withdraw and withdrawal is also āgamana आगमन. It means coming or approaching then returning. It is rooted in āgam, to come near or fall into, then to leave or return.

yajvan
10 December 2008, 12:47 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste



This is the process of transcending (withdraw) immersion into pure consciousness, then returning ( withdraw from the withdrawal) to the field of the senses, of space, time, cause, size, big and small.

One may ask then why return at all? why not just stay immersed in the Absolute?


When one is in the pure state, samādhi¹ one is residing in undifferentiated consciousness. This is the wholeness found in that state. Yet Śiva is also found in and throughout the universe. He is both the absolute and the relative field of life, of creation. What needs to occur? We withdraw from that withdrawal, from the Absolute and bring some of that undifferentiated consciousness that has been experienced back with us, back into the duality of life.

This begins to become established in our awareness over time. We are bringing more of that undifferentiated awareness and its qualities of peace, unboundedness, clarity, etc. back into the field of action, of duality. More of that joy ( cidānanda) comes back with the native and becomes part of one's being while living and working within the relative field of life.

The subjective experience of sameness, of even-ness is brought into the world of action. Some say we are bringing more of the subjective experience of samādhi into the objective field of creation ( matter, size, shape, feelings, emotions, etc). We find this idea called out in the Vijñāna Bhairava 106th kārikā:
When yogī-s ( and yoginī's) perceive or contact (the word used is sambandha¹) the objective world is not different; their subjective experience is held i.e. is not overshadowed by the experience of duality.

What is occuring ? we are pouring pure consciousness into the relative field of life. This relative field of life helps establish higher levels of consciousness by allowing us to 'exercise' this svātrantraya (independent) consciousness within the daily activities of life.

Yet note the following...Śiva is found both in the depths of undifferentiated consciousness some call samādhi or niriddha ( effortless one-pointedness) and in the multiplicity of creation. By establishing the Supreme (anuttara) independent (svātrantraya) consciousness (cetana) within our daily active lives it allows us to view, appreciate and comprehend the Supreme residing right here before our eyes, some say were able to see 'THAT' in 'this' - Brahman in the field of every day life.

My teacher used to use the analogy of washing a yellow sari¹. It would be washed and then hung in the brightness of the full day Sun. Over time what becomes of the cloth? It becomes white from the cleaning and the brightness of the rays of the Sun.

What was he telling us? Washing a yellow sari, he was inferring śarīra¹. It would be washed (transcending) and then hung in the brightness of the full day Sun (Being, sattā, pure consciousness). Over time ( sādhana, practice) the cloth takes on the purity (sattva) of Being (sattā, pure consciousness); One becomes That. Through this process one experiences camatkāra¹ (joy). This is also reviewed above in post 22 and 23.

The Śiva sūtra-s śloka 8, of Chapter 2 also says śarīraṁ haviḥ. That is, that which is easily destroyed śarīra, the 3 coverings of wake , dream and sleep are given up as an offering (haviḥ) or havana, that act of offering an oblation. This offering is given into Supreme Consciousness (anuttara). Why so?

They are no longer covering or draping (sari) one's essential (sāra - essence, best part) nature of pure Being (sattā) and can walk on this earth established in the fullness of God Consciousness or Bhāgavat Cetana. This is being established in Turīyātīta. Turīya + atīta : -turīya is the 4th + atīta or beyond, past. Hence turīyātīta is beyond the 4th.

pranams

words

samādhi समाधि - ( sama + dhā) - sama सम is equal, even, sameness + dhā is to establish, take hold of, to obtain and even to take pleasure in. So this sama + dhā is establishing sameness, even-ness.
sambandha सम्बन्ध - binding or joining together , close connection or union or association , conjunction , inherence , connection with or relation to
sari - cascade or waterfall; the drape of uncut cloth worn by woman draped (cascaded) over the body; note the connection
to śarīra
śarīra शरीर- from śṛṛ , that which is easily destroyed i.e. the bodily frame; some call these ~bodies~ waking, dream and sleep - as they too are easily destoyed as one goes from wake, to dream to sleep.
sāra सार- the substance or essence or marrow or cream or heart or essential part of anything , best part , quintessence
havana हवन- the act of offering an oblation with fire , sacrifice

yajvan
14 December 2008, 02:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste

from a previous conversation¹ ...



It has been my observation that many people stop sādhana due to not knowing how to be effortless ( or at least less intense). We are groomed by society (IMO) to be assertive, forward, achievement based. When it comes to sādhana with meditation, it is the delicate approach that brings fruit.

What one needs comfort with is prayatnaḥ sādhakāḥ as mentioned in the Śiva sūtra-s (chapt 2.2) - pause-less effort that brings one to the level of Being. Holding the beginning point ( some like to call this anusaṁdhitsā) with awareness. This brings about the union of the worshipper (meditator) and the worshipped ( pure consciousness).
The above is from another post and conversation ¹. AS to not further derail that conversation with another point on effortlessness, I thought to offer it here - as it fits approprialtey within the notion of going from diversity or aṅga and experience fullness, bhuma, turīya or aṅgī, the whole, then coming back to diversity.


There is a most insightful sūtra offered in the Śiva sūtra-s¹ (Chapt 3.16) says the following:

āsanasthaḥ sukaṁ hrade nimajjati||

āsanasthaḥ आसनस्थ - abiding on a seat; we see the compound word of āsana and we know of postures from hatha yoga.
sukaṁ सुख - running swiftly or easily ( applied to chariots) ; agreeable , gentle , mild , easy, comfortable.
hrade is rooted in hṛ हृ - to take away, carry off, to present. We find this word at the core of hari ' the remover' and hara ' one who takes away' . This hṛ हृ also means withdraw.
nimajjati is a bit more robust - IMHO it needs to be broken to its components:
ni नि is into, within
ma म as a noun is happiness
aj अज्is to cast, drive, or propel
jāti जाति jati birth, natural disposition and jāta जात is birth or origin, brought into existence.
So what is this telling us? Let me give you my POV and then in the next post I will offer Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's council.

I hightlighted some of the key words above they tell us what becomes of a person practicing an āṇavopāya¹ approach. That is when one is practicing āṇavopāya in a successful manner, ones awareness is seated comfortably and easily withdrawn within to its natural disposition (pure consciousness); its natually drawn within, carried off in happiness within (if you will), that is agreeable and effortless.


This has been the position offered by my teacher too on this matter… he would use the words ' a comfortable ride ' often when he talked of transcending and what we could expect i.e. to validate the experience. This has been the experience, and verifies this most wonderful Śiva sūtra.

pranams


words and references

Śiva sūtra-s of Vasugupta or Maheśvara sūtra-s महेश्वर सूत्र are considered śivopaniṣad saṅgraha
āṇavopāya is part of a group of 3 upāya-s:
1. sāmbhavopāya (sāmbhava upāya)
This upāya The rise of Śiva consciousness by mere hints from the guru. It is via iccha śākti that the sādhu advances; the grace/will of the master. The sadhu gains entry into sāmaveśa ( posessed of the Divine), absorption of the individual consciousness in the Divine, without adapting any process. No dhyāna, mantra or any other aid is needed.

1a. sāmbhavopāya is also known as anupāya or 'without means or no upāya' - the way is without a way, as one person has said it. It does not really involve any process. Due to śaktipata or descent of grace in a very intense degree, everything needed for the realization, beginning from the liquidation of individual impurity down to the recognition of the state of Parameśvara may be achieved by the sādhu immediately and without going through any sādhana or discipline.

2. śākopāya (shakti-upāya)
The means of approach to the Divine through śakti, the ever-recurring contemplation of the pure thought of oneself being essentially Śiva or the Supreme ahaṁ .

3. āṇavopāya
āṇu अणु = fine , minute , atomic is known as 'atom' - which is another name for the individual jiva.
This upāya is the means whereby the āṇu or the individual jiva uses his own kāraṇa-s or instruments i.e. senses, prana and manas for self-realization. It includes disciplines concerning the regulation of prana, japa, concentration, meditation, etc.
Previous conversation from http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=25724&postcount=17 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=25724&postcount=17)

yajvan
15 December 2008, 05:46 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste



There is a most insightful sūtra offered in the Śiva sūtra-s¹ (Chapt 3.16) says the following:

āsanasthaḥ sukaṁ hrade nimajjati||

So what is this telling us? Let me give you my POV and then in the next post I will offer Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's council.

Here is Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's view on this matter.
āsanasthaḥ sukaṁ hrade nimajjati ||
He says the sutra reads like this: Seated in the real posture (āsanasthaḥ) he effortlessly dives (sukaṁ hrade) into the ocean of nectar (nimajjati)

Svāmī-ji suggests that āsana-s or postures explained in the Yogadarśana of Patañjali are beyond just the postures one thinks
of i.e. śīrṣāsana, etc. He says śivayoga is the posture that one must understand to comprehend the posture of a yogī.
That posture is the supreme energy of awareness. You are seated in that 'posture' when you possess the supreme energy of awareness.
Being 'seated' suggested being established in it at all times - residing in the SELF.

But what of this notion of diving? Svāmī-ji's position on this is the following: In diving into the ocean of nectar he lets the
impressions of the body, breath, etc. sink into that ocean and becomes one with the nectar.

And what is the nectar? The SELF, Pure awareness.

pranams

words

āṇavopāya - see the previous post for the listing of 3 upāya-s.
āsanasthaḥ आसनस्थ - abiding on a seat; we see the compound word of āsana and we know of postures from hatha yoga.
sukaṁ सुख - running swiftly or easily ( applied to chariots) ; agreeable , gentle , mild , easy, comfortable.
hrade is rooted in hṛ हृ - to take away, carry off, to present. We find this word at the core of hari ' the remover' and hara ' one who takes away' . This hṛ हृ also means withdraw.
nimajjati is a bit more robust - IMHO it needs to be broken to its components:
ni नि is into, within
ma म as a noun is happiness
aj अज्is to cast, drive, or propel
jāti जाति jati birth, natural disposition and jāta जात is birth or origin, brought into existence.

yajvan
20 December 2008, 01:36 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste


There is no doubt that this turiya is the substratum for all other levels of consciousness. On one hand this turiya is there for all to experience ... It is found between the tick of a clock or between two breaths, etc.
Turiya can be found there, in these gaps, sandhyā . Yet if the person is thinking, "Ahha I am viewing this gap" and using his/her awareness to do it, then the Turiya experience is not occurring (unless one is a muni), due to the fact that turiya is the awareness of that experience itself. The 'experience' is pure awareness itself, turned back on ltself. That is why it is considered the 4th as it is not about wake, dream or sleep.

There are several sūtra-s in the Śiva Sūtra-s¹ that give insight on turiya. Let me offer 2 of them, one found in the 3rd section addressing the āṇavopāya approach¹, then in the next post , the sutra found in the 1st section addressing the sāmbhavopāya approach.
Chapter 3, 20th sūtra
triṣu caturthaṁ tailavadāsecyam||

Here is my view ~decoding~ this sūtra. I will then offer Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's keen insights.

triṣu - tri त्रि + ṣu सू : tri or later on + ṣu or delivery, a form of sū which means to bring forth, produce or deliver; tri is also 3 as in trika and also means a place where 3 roads meet.
caturthaṁ चतुर्थं or caturtha चतुर्थ is the forth , 'constituting the 4th part'. Note turya in caturthaṁ.
tailavadāsecyam is a compound word. Here (IMHO) is its components and meaning:
taila तैल oil
vadā is from vadānya वदान्य - bountiful, liberal; also note 'va' is a noun for varuṇa - 'all envelopng sky' - hence the notion of liberal expansion
secya(m) सेच्य is from secanīya सेचनीय to be sprinkled or watered or poured out or effused
So from my POV this sūtra says the following, (triṣu) in due order this 4th (caturthaṁ) is to be (secanīya) sprinkled liberally (vadānya) like oil (taila) enveloping (va) or bringing forth ( ṣu or sū). For this sutra I see the possibility of a double meaning for triṣu i.e. in due order and also, 3 (as in trika).
Now recall the definition of a sūtra - it is just a snippet, a stitch, the most abbreviated form for communicating an idea , intent or thought. Hence then one would logically ask, What is this turya suppose to cover or sprinkled like oil on?

Lets look to the wisdom of Svāmī Lakṣman-jū and his views on Kṣemarāja-ji's bhāshya. He says, the stitch reads the following:
The 4th state (turya) must be expanded like oil (taila) so that it pervades (va) the other three (tri): jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti.

Note that jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti i.e. wake, dream and deep sleep are implied. It is implied by the idea of 'tri' and by the notion of turya the 4th; if we are talking the 4th, then the other 3 are implied.
So this is the baseline thought for this sūtra. Let me continue this idea on the next post and offer what I believe the notion is being offered and compare that to Svāmī-ji's commentatary of the same.

pranams

words and references

Śiva Sūtra-s revealed to Vasugupta by Lord Śiva are considered one of the most important āgama-s of Trika Śiavism. The one used for this post is the Śiva Sūtra Vimarśinī commentary (bhāshya) by Kṣemarāja-ji, the chief śiṣya-cela of Abhinavagupta. None of this knowledge can be attributed to me. It is only by Svāmī Lakṣman-jū's writings that my understanding advances. To him I am most grateful.
va is a noun for varuṇa - 'all envelopng sky'
āṇavopāya is part of a group of 3 upāya-s:
1. sāmbhavopāya (sāmbhava upāya)
This upāya , the rise of Śiva consciousness by mere hints from the guru. It is via iccha śākti that the sādhu advances; the grace/will of the master. The sadhu gains entry into sāmaveśa ( posessed of the Divine), absorption of the individual consciousness in the Divine, without adapting any process. No dhyāna, mantra or any other aid is needed.
1a. sāmbhavopāya is also known as anupāya or 'without means or no upāya' - the way is without a way, as one person has said it. It does not really involve any process. Due to śaktipata or descent of grace in a very intense degree, everything needed for the realization, beginning from the liquidation of individual impurity down to the recognition of the state of Parameśvara may be achieved by the sādhu immediately and without going through any sādhana or discipline.
2. śākopāya (shakti-upāya)
The means of approach to the Divine through śakti, the ever-recurring contemplation of the pure thought of oneself being essentially Śiva or the Supreme ahaṁ .
3. āṇavopāya
āṇu अणु = fine , minute , atomic is known as 'atom' - which is another name for the individual jiva. This upāya is the means whereby the āṇu or the individual jiva uses his own kāraṇa-s or instruments i.e. senses, prana and manas for self-realization. It includes disciplines concerning the regulation of prana, japa, concentration, meditation, etc.


Previous conversation from http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=25724&postcount=17 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=25724&postcount=17)

yajvan
21 December 2008, 12:47 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste


Lets look to the wisdom of Svāmī Lakṣman-jū and his views on Kṣemarāja-ji's bhāshya. He says, the stitch reads the following:
The 4th state (turya) must be expanded like oil (taila) so that it pervades (va) the other three (tri): jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti.

Note that jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti i.e. wake, dream and deep sleep are implied. It is implied by the idea of 'tri' and by the notion of turya the 4th; if we are talking the 4th, then the other 3 are implied.
So this is the baseline thought for this sūtra. Let me continue this idea on the next post and offer what I believe the notion is being offered and compare that to Svāmī-ji's commentatary of the same.

There are many posts where we talked about the gaps between wake, dream and sleep - these junctions are the places where one can experience turiya if attentive. Note this does not imply that turiya ONLY resides at these junction points or the sandhyā (some write saṁdhyā ¹) - but that it is more observable/accessable at these junctions.
So, from the last post - the notion then is, this turiya is to be expanded (va) so it covers like oil, the other 3 states of consciousness - wake, dream and deep sleep. The oil analogy is i.e. like oil (taila) being poured out (secanīya) on a smooth surface, it expands or covers the surface in all directions.

The 20th sūtra says the same - prolong turiya so it expands and covers the other 3 states of consciousness of jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti (wake, dream,sleep) says Svāmī Lakṣman-jū. This turiya is then experienced beyond junction points (saṁdhyā) but even during the middle ( madyha) of these states of consciouss - hence turyarasa ( the nector or taste of turya) is there for the yogī and yoginī all the time.

As mentioned this turya is offered in the 1st section of the Śiva Sūtra-s, the chapter on the sāmbhavopāya approach:
Chapter 1, 7th sūtra
jāgrat-svapna-suṣupta-bhede
turyābhogasaṁbhava ||

As you look to the first line of the sūtra you see the familiar 3 states of consciousness jāgrat, svapna and suṣupti or wake dream and sleep - these as a group are considered 'differentiated' states of consciousness i.e. bheda भेद or separation , division , partition , part , portion.
Then in the 2nd line we see the familiar 4th, turya, followed by bhoga + saṁbhava. This bhoga भोग is known as a hood, covering (like the hood of a snake), it also means delight, profit, possession. And sambhava सम्भव means union, coming together or being contained in.
So the sutra says, the differentiated states (bheda) are contained in or covered (bhoga) by and brought into union (sambhava) by turya.
This line can also infer turya as the expansive state (bhoga) like the hood of a cobra snake, that covers and brings into union the other
3 states of consciousness.
Svāmī Lakṣman-jū says it like this: Such a heroic yogi experiences the expansive state (bhoga) of turya in the differentiated ( bheda ) states
of waking, dreaming and deep sleep.

So why mention this? The sūtra in Chapt 3.20 is connected to Chapt 1.7 sūtra. It said turiya is to be expanded (va) so it covers like oil, the other 3 states of consciousness - wake, dream and deep sleep. In Chapt 1.7 it is saying what the yogī experiences when this occurs - turya is never lost - it covers (bhoga) and brings into union (saṁbhava) the differentiated (bheda) states of consciousness. It also suggests the joy that accompanies this experience by the word bhoga, as this not only suggests hood or covering , but that of delight.

For those that have read the Śiva Sūtra-s some contend this word saṁbhava (union) should read saṁvit. Saṁvid संविद् means to know together, held together. This suggests differentiated consciousness (wake, dream, sleep) is known together along with turya. For me, it works both ways - union or to know together.

pranams

words
saṁdhyā संध्या - holding together , union , junction , juncture; see this HDF post http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8273&postcount=5 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=8273&postcount=5)

yajvan
24 December 2008, 08:09 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namaste


Svāmī Lakṣman-jū says it like this: Such a heroic yogi experiences the expansive state (bhoga) of turya in the differentiated ( bheda ) states of waking, dreaming and deep sleep.


So now what? What does this person now do? The Śiva Sūtra-s, Chapter 3, 26th sūtra dealing with the āṇavopāya approach suggests the following:
sariaravrittirvratam ||

śarīra शरीर - one's body ; from śṝ शॄ that which is easily destroyed or dissolved' i.e. bodily frame , solid parts of the body
vṛtti वृत्ति ( some write vṛitti) - course of action , activity , function, behaviour ; on occation we also use this word's other definition as commentary , comment , gloss , explanation.
vrata व्रत - practice , any pious observance , meritorious act of devotion or austerity
Hence this sūtra says, one's observance, virtuous (vrata) practice or course of action (vṛtti) is that of maintaining the body (śarīra) .

I find this interesting and uplifting. For others that have not realized turyātīta ( beyond the 4th, turya), vrata may include observances, fasts, religious activites, etc. Yet for the yogī/yoginī's vrata becomes just usual things i.e. walking, taking tea, getting up in the AM, eating , etc. All these things for the person that is established in the SELF is virtuous i.e. staying in the body is his/her virtuous behavior.

Even as he/she does things like we may do, he/she resides beyond - established in that consciousness that is pure, unbounded, without stain.
Ordinary talk for the yogī/yoginī is the recitation of mantra - this is the notion of the 27th sūtra, it says:
kathā japaḥ ||
kathā कथा - conversation, speech, talking together
japaḥ जपः - 'muttering , whispering' we know as the repetition of prayer, mantra, scripture

praṇām

yajvan
23 January 2009, 11:02 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


I mentioned the following in a previous post:


Turiya can be found there, in these gaps, sandhyā .
We can find these gaps in our breathing - between one breath and another ( apāna and prāṇa). It is said, haṃsaprāṇa-śūnya-viṣuvat. Lets see what this says.

viṣuvat विषुवत् - sharing both sides equally , being in the middle , middlemost ; many use this word as equinox - a balanced point.
śūnya शून्य - empty , void
prāṇa प्राण - in this sloka, it is used as breath; We also know it is vital life force.
A breath = 1/6th vināḍikā ( vināḍikā = 24 seconds) or ~ 4 seconds. I only mention this because it informs us on how many times we breathe in one day ~ 21,600 times ( (24 hrs X 60 min X 60 sec) / 4 = 21,600 ).Note that prāṇa is connected to haṃsa i.e. haṃsaprāṇa. Haṃsa is the symbol for in-and-out breathing ham + saḥ. Hence haṃsaprāṇa-śūnya-viṣuvat is that place where in-and-out breathing is balanced, the zero (śūnya) point.

Its been mentioned on several occasions in another way called madhya मध्य or central point. This madhya and now we can also call it viṣuvat ( the equinox) occurs 2X times in our breathing - at the top of the breath and at the bottom.

There is many a debate on what is top ( breathing in) and what is bottom ( breathing out) - that is, which one is called prāṇa and apāna. I will leave this technical point to your discretion. Knowing that it happens twice is the message.

So with each breath there is the possibility of this gap, this śūnya-viṣuvat occuring. Hence with each breath there is the possibility for this gap or sandhyā to be experienced; the opportunity to experience turiya.

praṇām

saidevo
24 January 2009, 08:55 AM
Namaste Yajvan.



There is many a debate on what is top (breathing in) and what is bottom (breathing out)--that is, which one is called prANa and apAna. I will leave this technical point to your discression. Knowing that it happens twice is the message.


Interestingly, when the NirguNa Brahman manifests as SaguNa Brahman and creates this universe, it is done by his outgoing breath (his apAna). At the end of the current Time Cycle, he breathes in everything that came out of him into himself (his prANa).

Born in the manifest world, the newborn child first breathes in, then breathes out, absorbing the particles and energy of Brahman and releasing some of them--a reverse of what Brahman does, and thereby starts the duality and polarity of manifestation.

The whole process of breathing and the action of the prANa and apAna (as everything else) is carried on, on the substratum of AkAsha (space), which is the first manifesation of the Cosmic Consciousness of Brahman; prANa and apAna as the energy behind all life forms, course through the turIya of space/consciousness in waves, with that turIya shining in the interval between two waves. As these waves thicken into grosser matter and life forms, their crests and troughs become closer, increasingly shortening the perceptible interval of turIya.

Thus the first sAdhana for increased perception and awareness of turIya is to watch and regulate the breath--prANAyAma. The rhythm of our breath is indeed greatly affected by our speech (specially in a language like the English), our emotions and thoughts of a grosser nature. The rhythm is automatically regulated in our dreamless sleep, and in moments we become immersed in devotion, divine music, satsang and other spiritual persuits, which serve, specially in this Kaliyuga as alternatives for the rigors of Hatha Yoga, meditation and other advanced forms of yoga sAdhana.

I have written only what seem to be the case to me: members might freely correct me where I am wrong.

yajvan
24 January 2009, 12:06 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~



Thus the first sAdhana for increased perception and awareness of turIya is to watch and regulate the breath--prANAyAma.

Namasté saidevo,

Thank you for an insightful post... Its of great interest (to me) that the 1st sūtra of instruction¹ found in the Vijañāna Bhairava kārikā-s is that of the regulation or watchfulness of breath, prāṇa. Bhairava discribes it as visarga ( consisting of 2 points or : )

He suggests one get familiar with viṣuvat विषुवत्- the equinox, the balanced point.
How important must this breathing be that Śrī Bhairava-ji offers it as the first instruction to Śrī Devī ? and from this one may be able to deduce the amṛtabija¹ of sauḥ from this? For me, I am in awe.

praṇām

words and references

First kārikā of instruction to Śrī Devī is the 24th sūtra.
amṛtabija is amṛta + bija: nector + seed sound.

yajvan
28 January 2009, 07:01 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Speaking of breath, I wrote the following

He suggests one get familiar with viṣuvat विषुवत्- the equinox, the balanced point.
How important must this breathing be that Śrī Bhairava-ji offers it as the first instruction to Śrī Devī ? and from this one may be able to deduce the amṛtabija¹ of sauḥ from this? For me, I am in awe.

Let me offer an additional point from the Vijñāna bhairava, 64th kārikā , as it mentions Saṃghaṭṭāt .

Saṃghaṭā संघाट - is fitting or joining together
saṃ सम् - union, placing together
ghaṭṭ घट्ट् - to rub (the hands) over , touch , shake , cause to move This has to do with the breath. Saṃghaṭā is when/where the 2 breaths meet. What are those two breaths? It is what we have been talking about in the above posts, prāṇa and apāna.

Where prāṇa begins, is the ending of apāna. It is a junction of these two, saṃdhi संधि. Svāmī Lakṣman-jū says this junction, saṃghaṭā, may take place in the body or outside of it. Yet he informs the practitioner, the sādhu, yogī or yoginī, that in the end (anta अन्त or conclusion, ~ definite ascertainment ) when both breaths stop then one is capable of knowing the rise of the oneness to Self.
That is, the practitioner becomes bhajana भाजन - capable i.e. ' partaker of' , a recipient , receptacle , a vessel fit to know the rise of oneself to Self.

praṇām

yajvan
29 January 2009, 12:48 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

This post is a continuation of the Vijñāna bhairava, 64th kārikā.

I mentioned


It is a junction of these two, saṃdhi संधि. Svāmī Lakṣman-jū says this junction, saṃghaṭā, may take place in the body or outside of it.
Where are these locations?

Within the body:

ājñā आज्ञा- command; cakra between the eyesbrows. Some call śivanetra, or the 3rd eye.
This location is also referred to as vāraṇasi. See http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2227&highlight=varanasi (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2227&highlight=varanasi) and the related posts for its discussion.
Sarabhanga offers the following:
varaNa means "bridge", and varaNasya is "of the bridge".
varaNa-nasi is "at the bridge of the nose", and vAra-nasi is "at the (proper or appointed) place of the nose".
hṛdaya हृदय- the heart or region of the heart as the seat of feelings and sensations ; centre or core or essence or best or dearest or most secret part of anything; hṛdaya does not equaute to the physical 'pump' that lies in the center of the chest, yet this hṛdaya is used to suggest feeling; many times Full Consciousness. Much has been written about this area. We can pursue it if there is interest.Outside of the body is dvādaśānta

dvā+daśā+ ānta
dvā द्वor dva - 2, both +
daśā दशाconsisting of 10 +
ānta आन्त- final , terminal , relating to the end
Hence the end of 12 (fingers in this case).There are several locations that are 12 fingers away from different points on the body. MahaHrada offers his insights on this matter here: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22320&postcount=10 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22320&postcount=10)


praṇām