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srivijaya
03 October 2008, 04:09 AM
Whilst reviewing a Buddhist board I found a thread where someone had asked about using the mantra "Om Namah Shivaya".
During the discussion which followed one contributor who has a Hindu background provided the following information:

...if one doesn't recognize dependent origination and emptiness. Then even if you make it to the non-dual realms of Shaivites, like Siddhaloka... Shiva will manifest in his terrible form and eat the yogi up and spit him back out in whatever way his or her karmas are meant for that yogi at the end of a cosmic creation (It says this in Vasisthas Yoga a Hindu scripture). As Shiva is really an aspect of one's mind and a powerful aspect if not recognized for what it is...

Is this correct?

Namaste

MahaHrada
03 October 2008, 05:54 AM
Dear friend
This opinion reflects the belief of certain dualist vaishnavas, well known amongst those is the modern iskcon movement.
These vaishnavas are of the opinion that the cause to be born in siddhaloka or brahmaloka (which in their philosophy is some kind of lower region) either is a punishment for the error of aiming to merge into an impersonal non dual state, or it is the fate of demons killed by God.
Of course in other than dualist Vaishnava paramparas especially in the philosophy of the siddhas themselves (siddha siddhanta) such an idea is unheard of.

Mahahrada

srivijaya
03 October 2008, 02:53 PM
Dear friend
This opinion reflects the belief of certain dualist vaishnavas, well known amongst those is the modern iskcon movement.
These vaishnavas are of the opinion that the cause to be born in siddhaloka or brahmaloka (which in their philosophy is some kind of lower region) either is a punishment for the error of aiming to merge into an impersonal non dual state, or it is the fate of demons killed by God.
Of course in other than dualist Vaishnava paramparas especially in the philosophy of the siddhas themselves (siddha siddhanta) such an idea is unheard of.

Mahahrada

Dear Mahahrada,
Many thanks for that. I suspected that it was not the full picture but this helps to put it into its proper context.

Namaste

atanu
06 October 2008, 01:53 AM
Whilst reviewing a Buddhist board I found a thread where someone had asked about using the mantra "Om Namah Shivaya".
During the discussion which followed one contributor who has a Hindu background provided the following information:


...if one doesn't recognize dependent origination and emptiness. Then even if you make it to the non-dual realms of Shaivites, like Siddhaloka... Shiva will manifest in his terrible form and eat the yogi up and spit him back out in whatever way his or her karmas are meant for that yogi at the end of a cosmic creation (It says this in Vasisthas Yoga a Hindu scripture). As Shiva is really an aspect of one's mind and a powerful aspect if not recognized for what it is...
Is this correct?

Namaste

Namaste srivijaya,

I have not read this in Yoga Vasista or in any scripture. I have heard this being said/speculated sometimes in discussion forums by some vaisnavas (as already pointed out by MahaHrada), especially by very enthusiastic HK's.

That Shiva will manifest in one of His terrible form in Siddhaloka (to a Siddha), is possibly contradiction of the terms. And that a Siddha, a perfected being, will be spit out, as per Siddha's karma, is again a contradiction (to me at least). In my understanding, Siddha is one who has washed away all karmas.

Om

MahaHrada
06 October 2008, 09:42 AM
Dear friends,

I googled and looked at the original thread in the buddhist forum and it does not seem to me that the contributor has a hindu background, he seems to be a buddhist looking for reasons why a "good" buddhist should not do the japa of Panchakshari Shiva mantra.

For that end he reproduces some arguments of Gaudíya Vaishnava Sampradaya out of context, the funny thing is that the same arguments used against non dualism (that it will cause the birth in Siddhaloka) apply to Buddhism as well since a Buddhist also aspires to reach a non dual impersonal experience. So in the logic and the context of Gaudiya Vaishnavism, or in particular in the ISKCON variety of it, the buddhist is guilty of the same "sin" and would therefore be "punished" in the same way.

Avidya according to Lord Buddha is the source of suffering :)

Mahahrada

srivijaya
06 October 2008, 11:19 AM
Yes, contradictions in the argument.

If I remember correctly, the contributor (though a westerner) used to be very much into Hinduism prior to his conversion, hence my asking here, as I would have expected a degree of accuracy.
From an earlier post of his
the difference between Buddhism and Hinduism was in the assumption that an adaquate English translation of Brahman was "essence" or "ground of being"...and that this was lacking and not final from the perspective of the English translation of Shunya as "emptyness"? Even the English translation of Shunya as "emptyness" is a bit lacking....but....as it is spoken in plenty of Sanskrit mostly called "Hindu" texts...."Brahman"....or "Shiva" as used in Shaivite texts....and if one wants to get nitty gritty...these terms are pre-fixed with "para" to denote the utterly transcendent....is also defined as Shunya (roughly translated as emptyness)
He used to debate with the Buddhists on that board, so all the more surprising that he presented this information as a reason not to recite the mantra.

Namaste