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saidevo
06 October 2008, 01:57 AM
I received in a mail, this story that seems to be an urban legend. What do you think of it?



While a man was polishing his new car, his 4 yr old son picked up a stone & scratched lines on the side of the car. In anger, the man took the child's hand & hit it many times, not realizing he was using a wrench.

At the hospital, the child lost all his fingers due to multiple fractures. The child said to his father, with painful eyes: "Dad when will my fingers grow back?" The man was so hurt and speechless.

He went back to his car and kicked it many times.Devastated by his own actions and sitting in front of his car he looked at the scratches. His son had written "LOVE YOU DAD". The next day the man committed suicide.

So remember , LOVE and ANGER has no limits.


On checking through google I find that this legend has over 500 links, most of them glorifying it, albeit indirectly, for the human values it is supposed to teach: that love and anger have no limits!

Is this a story worth glorifying? If this is how an intolerant, hammer-happy parent who prefers to kick at or beat up things that irritate him learns about human values, it is highly monstrous? Even the asuras and rakshashas of ancient India didn't behave in such a manner towards their children?

What would a child who reads this story think of his/her dad? Won't this story make him/her fear him more, magnifying even the slightest traces of anger and irritation that he is capable of? Won't such an attitude foster hatred towards the parent?

And what does the parent learn? Will the story serve enough for an irritation-prone father to mend his ways? What message does the suicide of the father has? That it is the ultimate way of repetence?

1. Compare this story with this legend of a Pandyan king who ruled under the Pandyan dynasty, a part of Tamilnadu during 4th century CE.

This king was in the habit of occasionally going around the streets of his capital city in disguise, after midnight, when everyone would be fast asleep. This was his way of personally checking for any thieves, and supervising if his own security people did their jobs properly.

One day while walking in a street, he heard from inside a house, a man's voice talking to a woman at that time of night. As the woman's voice seemed agitated, he thought something was amiss, so he knocked the door, but from the tone of 'who is that' coming up from inside the house, he realized that it was only a husband-wife conversation. As he did not want to reveal his identity, he knocked the doors of every house in the street and returned to his palace.

The next day, the people of the street came to his palace and complained that on the previous night a 'thief' knocked the front door of their houses and ran away. The king asked them, "I know who is that thief. What punishment would you like to give him?" They said, "For this act of creating panic and disturbing peace, his hand that knocked the door might be chopped off."

Instantly, the king drew his sword and chopped off his own right hand! The people were aghast at the sight and wept for what they had done their own king. Later, they teamed up, made a hand made of gold, and got it fixed to the king. From that day, the king came to be known as 'poRkai pAndyan' (the Pandyan with a golden hand). This king ruled his country as the 98th generation of the Pandyan dynasty.

2. There is another story, a more recent one, concerning the king Krishnadevaraya of the Vijayanagaram kingdom and his court poet Tenali Ramakrishna, popularly known as Tenali Rama. One morning, in order to highlight the wit of his court poet, the king spoke in his court, "Yesternight, a thief came to my room. He got me bound to the bed, punched me repeatedly with his hands and also kicked me several times with his feet. What punishment can I give to him?"

Someone in the court said, "You need to chop off the thief's hands and legs for such a crime." The king turned to Tenali Rama, who said, "My Lord! I would advise you to adorn the hands that punched you with gold bangles and the legs that kicked you with silver anklets!" The poet had cleverly guessed that the king was only talking about his infant son!

The Holywood movies glorify such pitiful acts of adults and children as regularly kicking at things in anger (evening shooting at a TV for some unpleasant news!), using highly abusive and sexually degenerate language against each other, showing violence towards women and children and other acts of perversion. I am sure many children in the West (that includes the Indian kids) are influenced by the movies. Recently, I watched a movie named 'Stand by me' featuring school children, and was aghast at the sexually degerate language they used for their normal conversation!

As a global human community, where are we heading for with our values, culture and civilization?

Infinite Regress
06 October 2008, 03:46 PM
It's a touching story, I almost cried reading it.:hug:

I am not sure why you're being so harsh. The message is, Since love (positive) and anger (negative) are both limitless, we ought to choose love over anger. That's one way of seeing it.


And what does the parent learn? Will the story serve enough for an irritation-prone father to mend his ways? What message does the suicide of the father has? That it is the ultimate way of repetence?

It's actually quite simple. Anger and love are both powerful, the former in a negative way. So control it, and fill your heart with love. That's the moral of the story.

p.s.
I don't see why we need to compare and contrast these things with Indian stories, which are also beautiful in their own way.

vcindiana
06 October 2008, 06:32 PM
Dear Sai:

I read your post. I am won’t be surprised that was a real story. Regardless, there is truth in this story that the anger is just one level, it is very easy one can turn violent and kill some people or even himself in the rage of anger. We can start grading our sins or wrong doings or imperfections, but finally it is all the same but at different levels. It is very easy to judge others as you stated " Is this a story worth glorifying? If this is how an intolerant, hammer-happy parent who prefers to kick at or beat up things that irritate him learns about human values, it is highly monstrous? ". This person did understand his gut wrenching mistake and committed suicide. But I do not see he is different from you and me. He could not think any one can forgive him, probably he was right. ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE HIM. My understanding is that God is the only one who is qualified to go to that extent. In Gita CH 9 verse 30 Krishna says "Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination." How true it is ? Devotional service is nothing but realising one's mistake and repent for it. Jesus in Mathew 5 21 says " whoever says You fool (in anger) shall be in danger of hell fire ". His point is that there is no perfect person in this world and we all need the Grace or the forgiveness from our God.

There is really no point in looking at the negative things happening in this world, not that we want to just ignore. But God is great, He is the creator. He loves us very much. Roman: 5 20 "When sin abounded, Grace abounded much more". Optimism is way of my life.

Love..................VC

saidevo
06 October 2008, 11:08 PM
Namaste IR and VC.

My intention is not towards a debate on western vs eastern culture: my intention is why glorify such a story that narrates a monstrous act, and that from a parent. East has adopted all the technology that West has invented (plus a lot more of the culture in dress, manners and attitude, but that's a different issue). My point is when the West is so much aware of the values taught by the eastern religions, specially Hinduism, why can't it adopt their dharma and teach their legends to the young and adult kids such as the ones in the story, instead of reviling them as pagan faiths? If the West has a course in Hindu Dharma at its school level to all the children across the faiths, the world could be a lot more different for the better, that is my point.



It's a touching story, I almost cried reading it.


I had the same feeling too, but whom did you cry for in the story, the father or the son? On reading it, I was terribly angry with the father and possessively affectionate towards the son. If I had an occasion to meet the father after the incident, I would surely have hammered him--with words, of course!



I am not sure why you're being so harsh. The message is, Since love (positive) and anger (negative) are both limitless, we ought to choose love over anger. That's one way of seeing it.

As to asuras, yes, many asuras like Hiranyakasyap tried to kill their children by poisoning them, getting them trampled under elephants. But their children forgave them, that's love.


To a Hindu who reads the story, the behaviour of the father is highly disturbing--and unacceptible: it is awful that anger of a father towards his child can touch such levels, unless the father a notorious man in life. Here in this story, the father is portrayed as a normal man (or else he would not have committed suicide), surely of an earlier generation, so he must have had the wisdom to differentiate the levels of his anger. His reaction at such a small act from his own child is certainly unacceptible, and can't be an example of a teaching, in my opinion, which is why I took exception to the story.

Yes, I forgot about the likes of Hiranyakasyap, but we don't glorify the demon, as we do in this story!



We can start grading our sins or wrong doings or imperfections, but finally it is all the same but at different levels.


I agree that our imperfections are the same essentially, but we needs must grade them; not only grading, we needs must have the wisdom to control our reaction, realizing the level we need to react against, or else we become totally uncivilized, like the father of the story.

Frankly, what drives such emotions to arise in the western culture? If it is frustration in life, surely it is the hot pursuit for money and power that causes it?

The recent statement from Pope Benedict XVI in an assembly of 253 bishops in the Vatican, on the currently prevailing financial crisis in the US is a case in point:

Benedict says, "...now with the collapse of big banks we see that money disappears, is nothing and all these things that appear real are in fact of secondary importance." He urges those who build their lives 'only on things that are visible, such as success, career, money' to keep that in mind."

I hope the wisdom of the holy Pope percoates down to the pastors and people in his and other ministries. More than the faith, it is such wisdom that ought to be taught at the family and school levels.



This person did understand his gut wrenching mistake and committed suicide. But I do not see he is different from you and me. He could not think any one can forgive him, probably he was right. ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE HIM.


I don't think that you and me will go to such extent in our anger, specially towards our children. It is alright that the world won't forgive him, but suicide is not the solution! He did not after all kill his son, only wounded him! As Christianity so much exhorts a person to repent for his/her sins, surely repenting for his misdeed would have been a better solution? Suicide only indicates that he was a coward--he did not have the courage to face life and undergo the penance of repentance.

Thanks for stirring up a nice discussion.

vcindiana
07 October 2008, 04:15 AM
Dear Sai:

I do not know about you, for me it does not matter Eastern or Western, Hindu or Christian, we all have skeletons in our closets. More we judge each other dirtier it gets. I cannot teach morality to other at a gun point. I can control only my life. Anger or murdering some one is all same at but at different levels. Emotions do get carried away.
I feel bad the man in this story did not know there is something called GOD who forgives no matter how heinous the action was. For my understanding it is clear in Gita CH 9 verse 30 Krishna says "Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination." I meditated deeply on this verse. Krishna is telling me any one can be forgiven. Who are we as humans to judge?

You mention about grading our imperfections. That is very human thing, I am not an exception. But God sees in a different way. My favorite question is how GOOD A GRADE GOOD IS ENOUGH or HOW BAD A GRADE IS BAD ENOUGH to decide? God sees that we are equal, we all need His GRACE.

Thanks for reading Love VC

satay
07 October 2008, 07:42 PM
Namaskar,
I don't know why those who are quick to judge indians in general and Hindus in particular change their tone when the tables are turned.:rolleyes:

I can understand how asuraic religions like christianity and mullahism turn people into hypocrites.:cool1:

vcindiana
08 October 2008, 04:18 AM
Namaskar,
I don't know why those who are quick to judge indians in general and Hindus in particular change their tone when the tables are turned.:rolleyes:

I can understand how asuraic religions like christianity and mullahism turn people into hypocrites.:cool1:

Dear Satay: YOU BE THE JUDGE.

Love.............VC

satay
08 October 2008, 01:17 PM
namaskar,


Dear Satay: YOU BE THE JUDGE.

Love.............VC

Thanks for being the 'judge' on passing such a statement to me. That is the type of hypocrisy I was alluding too.