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brahman
07 October 2008, 12:46 PM
The import of mine binds the living being; he is liberated by that of not mine. When the mind is dementalised, no longer is duality cognised.
Paingala Upanishad

This upanishad shows the practice of consigning the duality and the path of realization of the self"
( I recommend Devanagari/ Dravidian Languages to follow Shastras)

also find these slokas below from the same script

"This is knowledge; this is to be known; one wishes to know all that. Were he to live (even) for a 1000 years, he would not reach the end of the Shastras."
"IV-23. What should be known is just the Imperishable; (but) life is fleeting. Avoiding the labyrinths of Shastras, meditate on the Truth (alone)."

Look what shri. Sankara says;

भजगोविन्दं भजगोविन्दं
गोविन्दं भजमूढमते .
संप्राप्ते सन्निहिते काले
नहि नहि रक्षति डुकृञ्करणे

मूढ जहीहि धनागमतृष्णां
कुरु सद्बुद्धिं मनसि वितृष्णाम् .
यल्लभसे निजकर्मोपात्तं
वित्तं तेन विनोदय चित्तम्

Seek Govind, Seek Govind, Seek Govind, O Fool! When the
appointed times comes (death), grammar rules surely will not
save you.
O Fool! Give up the thirst to possess wealth. Create in your mind,
devoid of passions, thoughts of the Reality. With whatever you
get, entertain your mind, be content.

DOWNLOAD BHAJAGOVINDAM (http://rapidshare.com/files/151799443/Bhajagovindam.mp3.html)

Brahman

Sudarshan
12 October 2008, 04:48 PM
Why is it that simply meditating on the truth does not lead to it? Because very few people are capable of the kind of meditatton that is one pointed. When you try to sit and meditate, thoughts immediately crowd you and drown you. It requires enormous practice to be successful.

The point is to note why you have all these thoughts in the first place. Most of it is because you still have desires, lots of them. You have fears and anxieties. So when you try to meditate, your mind is still filled with the events of the day, and anxieties about future whether they be financial, health, career and so forth. Unless the mind is freed from these desires, it is impossible to meditate properly.

What is needed to purity the mind is to place less burden on it . As long as the mind has cravings the truth will not shine on it. These things are taught elegantly in the Gita - the first few chapters all deal with how we must learn to relinquish the fruits of good and bad karma which free the mind from its desires. Only such a mind which has become purer will be able to meditate on the truth. As long as you keep worrying about many things, have fears or attractions towards worldly objects the mind will go after them even when you meditate. This is why we have a lot of shAstras. Much of it is intended to guide you in attaining this chitta shuddhi which is a prerequisite for being successful in meditation. Those who ignore this important practical instruction in the Gita will find it the very hardway.

izi
12 October 2008, 10:21 PM
To tell you the truth the Gita did not begin to speak to me on a level I could use until I had first gone through the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra ardently, then when the gears shifted suddenly I was able to see these other aspects I had not seen before. Yet somehow I can't get over the fact that *desire* keeps coming back, as long as I remain engaged with the world.

There is a reason for this, I think. To be engaged in the world is to risk becoming lost in it - perhaps the reason we are all stuck in this mess to begin with - maybe we're all lost and addicted to life.

There are times I thought I wanted to withdraw from life but it was coupled with the thoughts that i could always go back to being alone and delighting in that, but my work was to remain engaged so that I could draw what I could of wisdom and put it back into the work of elevating the earth's consciousness. Not by any means a solitary endeavor, although, at the same instance it is a singular entity, this one universe...

atanu
12 October 2008, 11:40 PM
Why is it that simply meditating on the truth does not lead to it? Because very few people are capable of the kind of meditatton that is one pointed. When you try to sit and meditate, thoughts immediately crowd you and drown you. It requires enormous practice to be successful.

The point is to note why you have all these thoughts in the first place. Most of it is because you still have desires, lots of them. You have fears and anxieties. So when you try to meditate, your mind is still filled with the events of the day, and anxieties about future whether they be financial, health, career and so forth. Unless the mind is freed from these desires, it is impossible to meditate properly.

What is needed to purity the mind is to place less burden on it . As long as the mind has cravings the truth will not shine on it. These things are taught elegantly in the Gita - the first few chapters all deal with how we must learn to relinquish the fruits of good and bad karma which free the mind from its desires. Only such a mind which has become purer will be able to meditate on the truth. As long as you keep worrying about many things, have fears or attractions towards worldly objects the mind will go after them even when you meditate. This is why we have a lot of shAstras. Much of it is intended to guide you in attaining this chitta shuddhi which is a prerequisite for being successful in meditation. Those who ignore this important practical instruction in the Gita will find it the very hardway.

Are you only 29?:headscratch: I note that Naomi is even younger. What the world is coming to?

atanu
13 October 2008, 12:01 AM
- Yet somehow I can't get over the fact that *desire* keeps coming back, as long as I remain engaged with the world


Ya, Naomi. An old man like me has the same problem. But I learned that desire is Bharga Himself, who gives and withdraws. So, the Gayatri was created.

Regards

Om

brahman
19 October 2008, 04:20 AM
Lord and Lust are inversely related.

Find the very nature of lust: an unquenchable thirst for more and more ... More money, fame, power, revenge, food, clothing, love, rest, comfort....


"sri-bhagavan uvaca
kama esa krodha esa
rajo-guna-samudbhavah
mahasano maha-papma
viddhy enam iha vairinam" (BG 3:37)

TRANSLATION
The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world.


Find where you are,

1) unconciously unconscious (a state of most of the entities)

2) consciously unconscious (believing in duality, thinking about non-duality)

3) consciously conscious (believing in duality, try finding non-duality )

4) unconsciously conscious (no guidance required, going by itself)

and then you enter a state of ultimate consciousness or Advaita

Towards the end of stage 3 you will have to compromise between lust and Lord and the mission may seem very difficult. You may even offered with the best of the best of offers. All you have to do is to offer your(self) to lord and get rid of Maya, the cause of all desires.



Turn all your desires unto ME, and then you will be satisfied of all your desires

Brahman

atanu
24 October 2008, 07:22 AM
Lord and Lust are inversely related.

Find the very nature of lust: an unquenchable thirst for more and more ... More money, fame, power, revenge, food, clothing, love, rest, comfort....
- All you have to do is to offer your(self) to lord and get rid of Maya, the cause of all desires.
Brahman

I have highlighted the portion, which, IMO, is the crux. But that is easier said than done, since every moment Maya (ignorance) in the form of "I am this" rises. So, unquenchable thirst for more and more ... More money, fame, power, revenge, food, clothing, love, rest, comfort.... etc. etc. is for the "I am this", which to start with is a mistake.


"Offer the self to Lord" is the ultimate knowledge but it is easier said than done. Many terrorists have really offered their selves to the Lord of their perception and in the process have murdered many.

Comprehension, or at least an inkling, of the mithya of the 'ego' may be needed before the "lust for more" can be overcome eventhough the lust for objects remains eternal for the senses. Yet, even after this victory, natural nature of food to impart heat will cause sexual needs to wax and wane. So, it has been helpful to me when i comprehended that desire is from Bharga Himself, who gives rise to and also withdraws the warmth and the desire.


Om

brahman
25 October 2008, 04:56 AM
Maya makes Brahman imperceptible, or its veiling power creates the multiplicity of The One and makes ignorance in the entities’ consciousness and thus the self and the duality occurs.


Atanu: "Offer the self to Lord" is the ultimate knowledge but it is easier said than done.

Yes, Brahmavdiya is tough, cos it is above all day-to-day sciences.


Atanu: Many terrorists have really offered their selves to the Lord of their perception and in the process have murdered many.

True. But terrorism is not as easy as people think, terrorists believe in strong ethics of their own. In a way they are very spiritual people and they sacrifice themselves for goals. Many meditate upon their idols for achievement and they get it. They offer their selves to the Lord of their perception and in the process have murdered many.

Look how does it happen with them;

Now I shall give a description of Atman. In the seat of the heart is a lotus of eight petals. In its centre is Jivatma of the form of Jyotis and atomic in size, moving in a circular line. In it is located everything. In knows everything. It does everything. It does all these actions attributing everything to its own power, (thinking) I do, I enjoy, I am happy, I am miserable, I am blind, I am lame, I am deaf, I am mute, I am lean, I am stout, etc. When it rests on the eastern petal which is of Sveta (white) colour, then it has a mind (or is inclined) to Dharma with Bhakti (devotion). When it rests on the south-eastern petal, which is of Rakta (blood colour), then it is inclined to sleep and laziness. When it rests on the southern petal, which is of Krishna (black) colour, then it is inclined to hate and anger. When it rests on the south-western petal which is of Nila (blue) colour, then it gets desire for sinful or harmful actions. When it rests on the western petal which is of crystal colour, then it is inclined to flirt and amuse. When it rests on the north-western petal which is of ruby colour, then it has a mind to walk, rove and have Vairagya (or be indifferent). When it rests on the northern petal which is Pita (yellow) colour, then it is inclined to be happy and to be loving. When it rests on the north-eastern petal which is of Vaidurya (Lapis Lazuli) colour, then it is inclined to amassing money, charity and passion. When it stays in the inter-space between any two petals, then it gets the wrath arising from diseases generated through (the disturbance of the equilibrium of) Vayu, bile and phlegm (in the body). When it stays in the middle, then it knows everything, sings, dances, speaks and is blissful. When the eye is pained (after a day’s work), then in order to remove (its) pain, it makes first a circular line and sinks in the middle. The first line is of the colour of Bandhuka flower (Bassia). Then is the state of sleep. In the middle of the state of sleep is the state of dream. In the middle of the state of dream, it experiences the ideas of perception, Vedas, inference, possibility, (sacred) words, etc. Then there arises much fatigue. In order to remove this fatigue, it circles the second line and sinks in the middle. The second is of the colour of (the insect) Indragopa (of red or white colour). Then comes the state of dreamless sleep.
During the dreamless sleep, it has only the thought connected with Parameshvara (the highest Lord) alone. This state is of the nature of eternal wisdom. Afterwards it attains the nature of the highest Lord (Parameshvara). Then it makes a round of the third circle and sinks in the middle. The third circle is of the colour of Padmaraga (ruby). Then comes the state of Turya (the fourth). In Turya, there is only the connection of Paramatman. It attains the nature of eternal wisdom. Then one should gradually attain the quiescence of Buddhi with self-control. Placing the Manas in Atman, one should think of nothing else. Then causing the union of Prana and Apana, he concentrates his aim upon the whole universe being of the nature of Atman. Then comes the state of Turiyatita (viz., that state beyond the fourth). Then everything appears as bliss. He is beyond the pairs (of happiness and pains, etc.,). He stays here as long as he should wear his body. Then he attains the nature of Paramatman and attains emancipation through this means. This alone is the means of knowing Atman.
When Vayu (breath) which enters the great hole associated with a hall where four roads meet gets into the half of the well-placed triangle, then is Achyuta (the indestructible) seen.Dhyana-Bindu Upanishad 94. (Translated by K. Narayanasvami Aiyar)


Brahman

atanu
25 October 2008, 08:40 AM
---During the dreamless sleep, it has only the thought connected with Parameshvara (the highest Lord) alone. This state is of the nature of eternal wisdom. Afterwards it attains the nature of the highest Lord (Parameshvara). Then it makes a round of the third circle and sinks in the middle. The third circle is of the colour of Padmaraga (ruby). Then comes the state of Turya (the fourth). In Turya, there is only the connection of Paramatman. It attains the nature of eternal wisdom. Then one should gradually attain the quiescence of Buddhi with self-control. Placing the Manas in Atman, one should think of nothing else. -Dhyana-Bindu Upanishad 94. (Translated by K. Narayanasvami Aiyar)

Brahman

That is the tireless sadhana, which becomes one's effortless nature eventually.


Thank you. Pranam.

Om

srikanthdk71
05 November 2008, 05:59 AM
Maya makes Brahman........

Thanks for that wonderful exposition. The turiya and turiyatita has been well explained. But, you say to keep the intellegence quotient awake to experience the turiyatita state. Is is not that it automatically takes you to turiyatita and samadhi and there is no question of you controlling anything. This state can only be reverted back with the help of a Guru who has experienced this state or else the person gets lost in time and space. His body never ages and he can never come back.

brahman
09 November 2008, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by srikanthdk71

This state can only be reverted back with the help of a Guru who has experienced this state or else the person gets lost in time and space. His body never ages and he can never come back.

Love for paramatman, faith, and the keenness to forfeit oneself to IT. Attainment of advaita from the condition of dvaita can only be possible through self sacrifice. Anyone with a desire to stray from this and revert back to his previous state is inadequate for "moksha".

Why is it?/ How is it?

Nature of "Turiya" and " Turiyatita " are but just levels or stages of mind, material transformations of any kind never occur there. For look, it's a unification of 'atman" and “paramatman” which is one but found different, and not of physical bodies. Certainly, external influences are unworkable there. A man himself reigns his mind. “To revert back is impossible” remains only as a fear. Sharpen love like a sword, slew fear, win over the battle of sacrifices and forsake the emotion of "self." For this alone shall truly be the path of renunciation and to the path of Advaita.

A Sat Guru can only render to his student (yogi) the aspects to evade fear and deliver him from the darkness of "ajnjana" with the light of "njana". A flawless Guru alone can rescue a student afflicted by the pangs of skepticism.
Within the condition of "turiya", the mind perceives atman within atman, then unify atman in paramatman with the help of love ;
for the one who contemplates him as Brahman(I am Brahman or aham brahmasmi) and has turned all his desires unto Paramatman, he is his own guru, because guru is Brahman and "you are that” (Tat Tvam Asi).

As Brahman is witnessed within atman, atman and Brahman is One (Ayamatma Brahma).

Thus “This” consciousness is Brahman(Prajnanam Brahma )

1) Fear is innate. A fear that leads to a major transformation. When one wins over and attains the feeling of advaita from the feeling of dvaita, all that has happened leaves the impression of a dream, only to be uplifted to rejoice in a world of reality.
Fear leaves one scared of a nightmare of 5 to 10 minutes and awake from it. So, one could just presume the level of fear that evolves when one enters the world of reality, after years of worldly life. How good and pleasant it is but, to behold the delights of reality, upon realization that all one sees is fantasy.

2) Love is love for paramatman, faith, and the keenness to forfeit oneself to it. Attainment of advaita from the condition of dvaita can only be possisble through self sacrifice. Anyone with a desire to stray from this and accomplish his previous state is inadequate for "moksha". For this, relinquish all aspirations, depart from fear, and attain the nature of paramatmanan and attain emancipation through this means of the manifestations of love and “self”(aham) sacrifice.


Om Tat Sat

Brahman