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orlando
23 June 2006, 09:38 AM
Namaste all.
In some italian christian sites I did read that according to some Christians the non-christian religions (Hinduism,Buddhism,etc) have been created by Satan in order to take the people away from the salvation!!!!:eek:
http://www.bambinidisatana.com/images/Satana.jpg
http://www.snipp.org/aggeggioso/cards/cards/diavolo.gif
http://media-cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/static/gaetano/satan.jpg

They even say that Satan is the founder of Yoga!!!
How can someone tell a thing like this?!:mad:

Regards,
Orlando

satay
23 June 2006, 11:12 AM
How can someone tell a thing like this?!:mad:

Regards,
Orlando

namaste Orlando,
Yes, I have seen such websites as well that say this. As far how can someone tell a think like this? Well, that's easy!

Ignorant and scared people say a lot of things but those who have brains figure our for themselves what the truth is.

I think Lord Shiva is considered 'satan' by some christians. We shouldn't get mad but try to email the owners of those sites and correct their misunderstandins. I have done this in the past but of course without any results. But doesn't hurt to email them and let them know that they are wrong!

Har Har Mahadev! It's all his and vishnu's leela!

ramkish42
23 June 2006, 12:42 PM
Trust they will also say Islam is satanic in the mainland of middle east :Roll:

First of all the idea of satan itself is funny idea, if satan is all powerful, then there is no need of god who lets satan dance on one's head

Furthermore, if Yoga is created by Satan, having seen many Yogis and their patience, I trust creations are satan have more patience and more loving than so called god's creations. Is not this a paradox? or should I say a Fallacy?

May all shower them with wisdom

Jai shree krishna

sarabhanga
25 June 2006, 05:50 AM
The fire belongs to Agni (i.e. Lord Shiva)

The color red belongs to Agni Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The serpent belongs to Nagesha (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The arrow and lance belong to Pinakin Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The trident belongs always to Lord Shiva.

The bull-horns belong to Nandi and Pashupati Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The goat-horns belong to Ajaikapad Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

And Shiva is Yogesha, the Lord of all Yoga.

Christianity has created Satan in the very image of Lord Shiva as the most insidious form of anti-Hindu propaganda! Don’t believe the hype! Christian propaganda would have you believe that Sanatan Dharm is Satan's Dharm!

The confusion of "Pagan" and "Shaiva" under the diabolical umbrella of "Satan" perhaps begins in the attached ancient images from India and Europe.

Znanna
25 June 2006, 09:31 AM
Christianity is innately a dualistic creed, in my opinion, in its modern interpretation and application.

As Mommy would say, "Consider the source" :D


Namaste,
ZN

Singhi Kaya
25 June 2006, 12:30 PM
The fire belongs to Agni (i.e. Lord Shiva)

The color red belongs to Agni Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The serpent belongs to Nagesha (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The arrow and lance belong to Pinakin Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The trident belongs always to Lord Shiva.

The bull-horns belong to Nandi and Pashupati Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

The goat-horns belong to Ajaikapad Rudra (i.e. Lord Shiva).

And Shiva is Yogesha, the Lord of all Yoga.

Christianity has created Satan in the very image of Lord Shiva as the most insidious form of anti-Hindu propaganda! Don’t believe the hype! Christian propaganda would have you believe that Sanatan Dharm is Satan's Dharm!

The confusion of "Pagan" and "Shaiva" under the diabolical umbrella of "Satan" perhaps begins in the attached ancient images from India and Europe.

Thank you sarabhanga ji ~ the points you make are very interesting

satay
25 June 2006, 01:49 PM
If to some ignorants, Bhagwan Shiva is satan so be it and I still bow a million times to rudra shiva for million lives and accept him as the only truth!

As I have stated before, even if an adharmi slashes my throat, bhagwan's name will not stop from my lips until the last drop of blood or the last breath of prana in my body.


Om Namah Shivaya!
Har Har Mahadev!
Jai Shiv Shankar!

Sudarshan
25 June 2006, 07:43 PM
Satan is just another name for Karma and anAdi mAya. We have dealt long enough with them to know this.:)

Singhi Kaya
26 June 2006, 06:26 AM
Satan can create as well?? I thought the power of creation only rests with God in monotheism. Satan just tries confuse us. Christian logic itself contradicts it's God being the original creator G-d.:Roll:

satay
26 June 2006, 09:41 AM
This 'satan' is the creator of all. :)

http://www.shaivam.org/gallery/image/shiva/shiva_mandala.jpg


Jai Bolenath!

:1cool:

Jalasayanan
28 June 2006, 04:50 PM
Satan is just another name for Karma and anAdi mAya. We have dealt long enough with them to know this.:)

Equating Karma and Satan? I am dubious

Sudarshan
28 June 2006, 05:02 PM
Equating Karma and Satan? I am dubious

Not exactly: The rough mapping would be:

Original Sin = anAdi Karma
avidya = Satan (ignorance)

However, their presentation makes it appear as if Satan and God Yahweh are nearly the same demons, with Yahweh being the stronger one. Do you want to follow Hiranyakashipu or Ravana - the choice is yours! But Since Hiranyakashipu is stronger than Ravana, you have to follow him - not much free will.

ramkish42
28 June 2006, 05:26 PM
Not exactly: The rough mapping would be:

Original Sin = anAdi Karma
avidya = Satan (ignorance)

However, their presentation makes it appear as if Satan and God Yahweh are nearly the same demons, with Yahweh being the stronger one. Do you want to follow Hiranyakashipu or Ravana - the choice is yours! But Since Hiranyakashipu is stronger than Ravana, you have to follow him - not much free will.

Many differences

Anaadi karma indicates it is infinite on both ends i.e. no start and no end, where in Original Sin has a specific start and has an end with armageddon.

Satan is not ignorance. Lucifer or his islamic version was originally ardent devotee of the god, as the book says, and fallen because of a dispute. Hence, in probabilities Satan is knowledge - there is no right word coined for it, probably deceptive knowledge

Further calling Hiranyakasipu stronger than Ravana is again unwarranted for both are same souls, having an addition birth experience Ravana should had been stronger one. Anyways such discussion is useless as of now, for we are interested in better things

Sudarshan
28 June 2006, 11:29 PM
Anaadi karma indicates it is infinite on both ends i.e. no start and no end, where in Original Sin has a specific start and has an end with armageddon.


But what do you exactly mean by anAdi karma, which apparently is not digestible to the human mind. It is possible to present it in a way with finite durations so that it is easier to understand.



Satan is not ignorance. Lucifer or his islamic version was originally ardent devotee of the god, as the book says, and fallen because of a dispute. Hence, in probabilities Satan is knowledge - there is no right word coined for it, probably deceptive knowledge


deceptive knowledge is exactly ignorance, and hence Satan. Ignorance has all characteristics of a devil, you know that right. It is this ignorance of one's self nature that make people behave like animals or worse.




Further calling Hiranyakasipu stronger than Ravana is again unwarranted for both are same souls, having an addition birth experience Ravana should had been stronger one. Anyways such discussion is useless as of now, for we are interested in better things

Ravana is weaker as he belongs to Treta Yuga, and Hiranya to Krita Yuga. Ravana was a weakling compared to Hiranya, and Shisupala who came after was pretty ordinary because it was Dvapara. Hiranya was so powerful that the three worlds started chanting "Hiranyaya Namaha". Ravana was not even known to the world and Vanaras had to struggle hard to even find who he was or where he was.

nekozuki
01 July 2006, 10:04 PM
Yep there's worse things I've heard. When dinosaur fossils were found, guess who planted the fossils on the earth to trick humans? SATAN :Roll:

sarabhanga
02 July 2006, 09:30 AM
Christianity has created Satan in the very image of Lord Shiva as the most insidious form of anti-Hindu propaganda! Don’t believe the hype! Christian propaganda would have you believe that Sanatan Dharm is Satan's Dharm!
In the attached images from manuscripts of Dante's Inferno, note the Damaru, Trishula, and Koti-Kuta (crescent-moon bull-horn forehead).

And the impression of Baphomet (the alleged deity of the Knights Templar) by the Catholic Occultist Alphonse Louis Constant (Eliphas Levi) includes many of the well-known traits of Agni-Rudra-Shiva!

satay
02 July 2006, 06:26 PM
Damru, Trishul, half moon!
:)

sarabhanga
03 July 2006, 11:02 PM
And the Pagan Pan is only the Paingin Shri Krishna! ;)

nekozuki
05 July 2006, 01:18 PM
Namaste all.
In some italian christian sites I did read that according to some Christians the non-christian religions (Hinduism,Buddhism,etc) have been created by Satan in order to take the people away from the salvation!!!!:eek:
http://www.bambinidisatana.com/images/Satana.jpg
http://www.snipp.org/aggeggioso/cards/cards/diavolo.gif
http://media-cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/static/gaetano/satan.jpg

They even say that Satan is the founder of Yoga!!!
How can someone tell a thing like this?!

Regards,
Orlando

Now you see what Christianity has done to Italy.Look at what happened to Rome:po: and then all of a sudden Satan ends up looking a lot like the Roman God Pan, wow what a coincidence.

sarabhanga
10 July 2006, 11:30 PM
And here are a couple of images from the Tarot.

sarabhanga
15 July 2006, 02:05 AM
The verbal root as is to be.

The active present participle of as is sat, which indicates being or existence.

The plural genitive of sat is satAm, which is the nature of beings and existences.

And the singular nominative shatam is a hundred.

shiva is santam and rudra is shatam, and name of the beast is Existence itself.

oM tat sat

Janissary
26 August 2006, 06:58 PM
People, perhaps you should try to understand the stance from a Christian perspective. If you want to understand a certain aspect of a religion or its adherence, you have to view it from the perspective of their worldview. Not take an isolated facet and plot it against your worldview.

The thing with Christians is, well, it is a rather common belief among them that those who die as anything but Christians will go straight to Hell. Based on this, it is not hard to see that they think all other (read: competing) religions are inherently bad, even though most of them can admit that the other religions have some good morals to them.

Sagefrakrobatik
28 May 2009, 01:32 PM
There are a handful of passages from the bible that seem to promote the idea of exclusivity; "No one gets to the father except through me"

"the path to the father is narrow whereas the road to destruction is wide"

There are also other parts of the bible that warn about false prophets like Baal. So christians look at other religions and see them as modern adaptations of these false religions. It is up to adherents of these other faith systems to challenge this dogma.

Gotam
02 July 2009, 05:54 PM
Namaste,

as a European having had a Christian (catholic) education, I am aware of the existence of a Christian idea according to which non-christian religions are satanic. I am sometimes told that in the Americas, such beliefs are still widespread - I do not know. Here in Europe, such an idea makes people fall off their chairs with laughter. When I was a child, four decades ago, most people in my home country (Belgium) were still believing Christians, but even then, the idea of satan being at the origin of "foreign" religions would have seemed very old-fashioned, if not ridiculous to them. Nowadays, without being practiced by a majority of people, yoga has gained general acceptance and recognition all over Europe, and the idea that "the others belong to the devil" just makes Europeans laugh or shrug their shoulders. The Italian website you were referring to will only be taken seriously by rather marginal Italians, I suppose. So I would not worry too much about a prejudice that belongs to a world-view which most Europeans no longer understand.

The difference with Hindus is that modern Europeans will treat the old ideas with contempt, whereas you Hindus are more willing to understand other people even though they are wrong, and I have to congratulate you for that; I am considering advising the members of a Belgian website to visit your site in order to learn to behave, even when anonymous.

rcscwc
08 September 2009, 10:28 PM
Buddhism rejects god and satan both. So, all abrahmic religions are not even spiritual.

Hmmm. Hindus classify them as mlechcha dharmas, created by Brihspati to waylay them. So they are groping in darkness.

jaggin
03 November 2009, 08:18 AM
Buddhism rejects god and satan both. So, all abrahmic religions are not even spiritual.

Hmmm. Hindus classify them as mlechcha dharmas, created by Brihspati to waylay them. So they are groping in darkness.

What kind of logic is that? Buddhism isn't an Abrahamic religion.

How then does one account for the verse "God is a spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth?"

Jesus says "I am the light of the world." How then can Christianity be groping in darkness?

rcscwc
10 December 2009, 07:45 PM
Sarbhanga has been trying very hard to prove that Shiva and satan are the same. From that onwards, xian can make all sorts of claims.

jaggin
11 December 2009, 07:07 AM
Sarbhanga has been trying very hard to prove that Shiva and satan are the same. From that onwards, xian can make all sorts of claims.I don't buy into the language game. Obviously similar words most often have different meanings. For instance the meaning of satan is adversary. That is obviously not the same meaning as existence. In Hebrew existence is "Jah" which doesn't even come close to the word satan. Satan isn't even a name but simply a reference to the fact that there is a being who opposes God. Iran calls the US "the Great Satan" and the US returns the favor by saying that Iran is a member of an axis of evil.

rcscwc
11 December 2009, 07:22 PM
What kind of logic is that? Buddhism isn't an Abrahamic religion.

How then does one account for the verse "God is a spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and truth?"

Jesus says "I am the light of the world." How then can Christianity be groping in darkness?
Krishna too says I am the light, so how can Hinduism be satanic?



Originally Posted by rcscwc http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=36394#post36394)
Sarbhanga has been trying very hard to prove that Shiva and satan are the same. From that onwards, xian can make all sorts of claims.
I don't buy into the language game. Obviously similar words most often have different meanings. For instance the meaning of satan is adversary. That is obviously not the same meaning as existence. In Hebrew existence is "Jah" which doesn't even come close to the word satan. Satan isn't even a name but simply a reference to the fact that there is a being who opposes God. Iran calls the US "the Great Satan" and the US returns the favor by saying that Iran is a member of an axis of evil.

Yeah, language can be negative return game.

A sequence of letters may mean something in one language but entirely another in another.

sanjaya
11 December 2009, 07:45 PM
I don't buy into the language game. Obviously similar words most often have different meanings. For instance the meaning of satan is adversary. That is obviously not the same meaning as existence. In Hebrew existence is "Jah" which doesn't even come close to the word satan. Satan isn't even a name but simply a reference to the fact that there is a being who opposes God. Iran calls the US "the Great Satan" and the US returns the favor by saying that Iran is a member of an axis of evil.

Yes, I think we can all agree that the language game is silly. It's no different than the Hindus who try to say that Jesus Christ and Sri Krishna are the same person. They make some kind of play on "Chrishna" if I recall correctly. It involves a rather circuitous path of translating "Krishna" to Latin, then Spanish, then English. People from every religion do weird things like this.

However, behind all of the word games is an underlying Biblical teaching concerning the Satanic nature of other religions.

I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. (1 Corinthians 10:19-20)
Evangelical Christians that I know typically base their belief concering other religions on this passage. Here Hindus would be classified as "pagans."

atanu
12 December 2009, 12:35 AM
Sarbhanga has been trying very hard to prove that Shiva and satan are the same. From that onwards, xian can make all sorts of claims.
Rc,

Sarabhanga said as below:

Originally Posted by sarabhanga
Christianity has created Satan in the very image of Lord Shiva as the most insidious form of anti-Hindu propaganda! Don’t believe the hype! Christian propaganda would have you believe that Sanatan Dharm is Satan's Dharm!

Have you read in full?

Om

atanu
12 December 2009, 10:12 AM
----
Jesus says "I am the light of the world." How then can Christianity be groping in darkness?

Namaste Jaggin,

Shri Krishna also teaches "Know this light to be mine". Two points arise. First: The supreme light is not divisible, just as sunlight is not. Second: There is possibilty of darkness underneath the lamp.

Om Namah Shivaya

shian
23 January 2010, 01:39 AM
Satan is created the non christians religions

and

only christian has created that kind of satan ! so, who is the true satan ??



http://9gag.com/photo/13467_540.jpg

orlando
11 April 2010, 02:08 PM
There are also other parts of the bible that warn about false prophets like Baal.

In the Bible,Baal is a false god!Not a false prophet.

sanjaya
11 April 2010, 04:42 PM
In the Bible,Baal is a false god!Not a false prophet.

He's probably thinking about Balaam, Son of Beor, who was hired by Balak the King of Moab to place a curse on Israel.

Ironically, our Jewish friends would actually apply this warning to Christianity rather than Islam. The Torah (in which Balaam appears) warns Jews not to worship any man as God, and since Christians try to convert Jews and have them worship Jesus as God, they would actually say that the Christians who peddle their religion are the real false prophets. Not that I, as a Hindu, have any problem worshiping Jesus. But it exposes a problem with Christianity: the Bible is such a small and limited text that it can be interpreted in a hundred different ways, and you can never be sure what it's saying, as evidenced by the many different denominations of Christianity.

Christians say that we're worshiping demons. Jews use the exact same passage of scripture to say that Christians are worshiping demons. Good thing we rely on more than just printed words to commune with God.

upsydownyupsy mv ss
12 April 2010, 03:34 AM
:Roll::laugh::Roll: WHAATT?!!!!!!!
Its sad that christians have misunderstood Jesus. I dont have any hatred on chritianity. All humans are sons of god. I love everyone. Hope everyone gains knowledge. Sorry if I hurt any Christian faith. But if they call hinduism as satan's religion, its intolerable.
read this, osho tells how god does not exist based on Christian faith. He doesn't know of Hindu belief system. So he comments only ON THE Christian terms of god. And he even says that god was never born, which is true according to Hinduism.:naughty: Maybe 'GOD' was born in Christianity.They have created God And Satan... Hinduism constantly tells how Shiva constantly 'evolves' his creation and so does he(from the statement: He the oldest and the youngest, in lord shiva promo) and he is omnipresent too, he is our own pure consciousness, so if we exist, he exists too, thats the hindu concept of god. Osho now believes god does not exist because of christianity.Some Muslims argue stating that bible is unscientific, and this is not my opinion, it is theirs. Bible has some ethical values too, according to others in other religions.

Meet osho in his speech. Awesome speech Osho! Read carefully, he even talks about the popes who say god is only a man and not a woman. And you will come to know how he talks about Hinduistic vedas without his own knowledge that he is talking about them. New possibilities and evolution is shiva, he is the youngest and the oldest, he is perfect, though he creations are not perfect, because of their own karma. watch shiva promo in youtube also, which says about the qualities of god.

Osho's speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=hhjOnYbKJJw&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch#%21v=hhjOnYbKJJw&feature=related)

Lord Shiva Promo(Shaiva):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9ldowRmIk

satay
12 April 2010, 09:01 AM
namaste upsydowny



read this, osho tells how god does not exist based on Christian faith. He doesn't know of Hindu belief system. So he comments only ON THE Christian terms of god.


Why do you think osho doesn't know about Hinduism? He wrote several books on it including one on Vedanta.



Meet osho in his speech. Osho's speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=hhjOnYbKJJw&feature=related


The above link doesn't go to osho's speech. Can you provide the correct link?

upsydownyupsy mv ss
12 April 2010, 11:41 AM
namaste upsydowny



Why do you think osho doesn't know about Hinduism? He wrote several books on it including one on Vedanta.



The above link doesn't go to osho's speech. Can you provide the correct link?
that link worked for me, dunno why it doesn't work for u... :o i dint know that he knew abt hinduism. :O

Ashvati
12 April 2010, 08:28 PM
I'm increasingly getting the feeling that christianity is obsolete, especially given the fact that knowledge of hinduism is becoming more available (some of you may remember my post about hinduism spreading naturally now that it can reach the world) and the way far too many christians today are acting. Whenever I see something like the site linked to at the beginning of this thread, it makes me wonder if Shiva has decided to taken some liberties on how exactly christianity falls in order to get a few laughs.

I can agree that it has plenty of worthwhile messages, but I can't honestly say that I feel it has anything to offer that hinduism or other religions don't have.

sanjaya
13 April 2010, 01:17 AM
I'm increasingly getting the feeling that christianity is obsolete, especially given the fact that knowledge of hinduism is becoming more available (some of you may remember my post about hinduism spreading naturally now that it can reach the world) and the way far too many christians today are acting. Whenever I see something like the site linked to at the beginning of this thread, it makes me wonder if Shiva has decided to taken some liberties on how exactly christianity falls in order to get a few laughs.

I can agree that it has plenty of worthwhile messages, but I can't honestly say that I feel it has anything to offer that hinduism or other religions don't have.

In the grand scheme of things, Christianity isn't a very old religion at all. Due to the scientific and military strength of the West, it spread rather efficiently throughout much of the Western world. But even today most Christians practice their faith due to inheritance from their ancestors. India has resisted missionary activity quite well, as evidenced by the stagnant 2-3% Christian population there. In America, it's becoming increasingly unpopular. When I went to college, almost no one was Christian, and the Christian presence on campus was only well-known because it was vocal. I think, and hope, that very quickly Christianity will die out in the West. Once this faith's seat of financial power is lost, I doubt it will continue to spread in non-Western cultures.

It is my hope that the tyrrany of Christianity will end within our lifetimes.

Ashvati
13 April 2010, 11:09 AM
Another trend that I'm seeing is atheists who adhere to buddhist philosophy and call themselves buddhist. This may seem contradictory to some and make sense to others, but I do know several such people, and they do adhere to buddhist teachings and at least one of them does study buddhist scriptures. My personal theory is that one of two things will happen. One, as christianity declines in america, buddism will be on the rise because of being connected with yoga and more accessible to americans than hinduism, and will become the most common religion in america over time and stay there, or two, the same will happen accept that many americans will decide they need more and need some higher power to devote themselves to and that buddha isn't cutting it and will turn to hinduism with buddhism serving as a nice accidental stepping stone and hinduism will be at least competing with buddism in terms of numbers in the US. Either way, I believe both religions will gain a stronger foothold in america as christianity wanes.

Eastern Mind
14 April 2010, 05:31 PM
In the grand scheme of things, Christianity isn't a very old religion at all. Due to the scientific and military strength of the West, it spread rather efficiently throughout much of the Western world. But even today most Christians practice their faith due to inheritance from their ancestors. India has resisted missionary activity quite well, as evidenced by the stagnant 2-3% Christian population there. In America, it's becoming increasingly unpopular. When I went to college, almost no one was Christian, and the Christian presence on campus was only well-known because it was vocal. I think, and hope, that very quickly Christianity will die out in the West. Once this faith's seat of financial power is lost, I doubt it will continue to spread in non-Western cultures.

It is my hope that the tyrrany of Christianity will end within our lifetimes.


Vannakkam Sanjaya: Your lifetime maybe .... old man like me, maybe not.
Have you also noticed the trend that Christians seem to be getting stupider, or maybe only the stupider remain. There seemed to me a time when you could have an easier talk with one, but now.. it seems hard. I think its because at a a certain level of intelligence gained, they just have to move on. There are just dozens of non-practicing Christians, or Sunday only Christians. So the stats are skewed. I know think you can still find daily Hindus (and Muslims) but Christians. Many see it as something to do for an hour once a week, and the rest of the time.. well..

Aum Namasivaya

TatTvamAsi
15 April 2010, 09:04 PM
About the abrahamic faiths dying out, WWIII anyone?

It's high time the middle east and the vatican are turned into glass parking lots! :D

JAI HIND!

sanjaya
17 April 2010, 02:30 AM
Vannakkam Sanjaya: Your lifetime maybe .... old man like me, maybe not.
Have you also noticed the trend that Christians seem to be getting stupider, or maybe only the stupider remain. There seemed to me a time when you could have an easier talk with one, but now.. it seems hard. I think its because at a a certain level of intelligence gained, they just have to move on. There are just dozens of non-practicing Christians, or Sunday only Christians. So the stats are skewed. I know think you can still find daily Hindus (and Muslims) but Christians. Many see it as something to do for an hour once a week, and the rest of the time.. well..

Aum Namasivaya

As far as Christians getting less intelligent...you know, I'm not really sure what to think about this. On the one hand, I see a lot of Christians on college campuses. And college students are supposed to be smart, right (that's mostly a joke)? But when I talk to them, I find that they fit into one of two categories. They tend to either be reasonably intelligent people who are good at compartmentalizing their Christian views and refusing to question them, or they are people who display greatly illogical behavior and got where they are by means that I can't imagine. I remember when I was in my first year of graduate school, there was a third year student just finishing her master's degree in astrophysics. As far as I know she was the only Christian in my physics department, and I haven't seen another one since. Now as the usual stereotype goes, you'd think that this person, having completed graduate coursework in quantum mechanics, electrodynamics, and advanced mathematical techniques, is intelligent. And you'd be wrong. Apparently she'd failed the PhD qualifier (which is why she was only getting an MS), gotten C's in several of her classes, and had retaken many of them. Her thesis was more like a lengthy book report, and was what I and others considered to be substandard work for the graduate level.

Anyway, she'd often try to convert me, and pose the most foolish arguments. Time and again she'd ask how a scientist like myself could see the clockwork perfection of the universe and not believe in God. Of course I responded that as a Hindu, I do believe in God, but that there was no physical evidence that compelled me to believe that there is a hell, or that my assent to some doctrine will save me from the hell that I don't believe in. She kept trying to convince me that God exists. Why she preached to the choir, I do not know. Sometimes she'd start explaining why Christianity is better than Islam. I wanted to tell her I agree, but refrained for fear that she'd misunderstand my agreement for interest in converting. Often times she would misquote the Bible. I was rather dismayed to find that even I actually knew the Bible better than her. Once she was shocked when I pointed out to her that the book of Ezra prescribes divorce in a specific situation. For better or worse she was gone the next year. Not sure what she did with her degree, but I imagine she's probably turned into a stay at home wife or something (not that there's anything wrong with that, I just don't know why this requires an MS in astrophysics). In general I'm not one to judge, but she never struck me as a terribly intelligent person. I would think that if religious Christians are going to waste time that they should be spending on their studies, they should at least waste it learning more about their Christian religion.

So does this mean that Christians are getting less intelligent? I don't know. Maybe it just means that public universities are handing out master's degrees like candy. Or maybe it just means she had an easy advisor (mine would never let me get away with this kind of thing and give me a PhD). But I bring it up for this reason: Christians will often point to other Christians in the scientific community as proof that their religion does not discourage intellectualism. I'm just pointing out that not all Christians with scientific degrees are actually active contributors to science, and not all of them are intelligent. Can Christians be intelligent? Of course they can, and there are examples. However, deaf people can write music, but it doesn't mean that being deaf makes you a better musician. It seems to me that Christianity is a hinderance to intellectualism. Some Christians are perhaps only intelligent because they are striving against their religion's nature to legitimize their faith in the eyes of others.

I agree with you. Once you gain a certain level of intelligence, it becomes hard to believe that the earth is 6,000 years old or that all humans came from two progenitors. It becomes hard to believe, lacking any evidence, that people will go to hell for not ascenting to a doctrine. Not all Christians are idiots. But I think there is a correlation between Christian religiousity and idiocy.

Eastern Mind
17 April 2010, 07:09 AM
Vannakkam Sanjaya:

Lovely analysis, and spot on. Thank you. You have taken considerable time to take all the opportunities offered to you to study human behaviour. It's actually been a long time since I've had any discussions with Christians.

I have only been to a few funerals or weddings. Some of the funerals were a bit fire and brimstone, but that FEELING gets me rather awed at the surrounding people taking it all in, believing in it, looking at me as if they know I'm going to hell.

Interacting with Indian ones was odd in India. They just sort of stared at me, wondering, "What the heck is this white guy doing, being so primitive, not believing in in Jesus?" I wish there were more of me, actually, over there. Maybe some would come back.

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
17 April 2010, 09:45 AM
It's like my story of the kindergarteners. Many Christians are still in Kindergarten spiritually. We wouldn't say a kindergartener is ignorant...just very new. Even the Senior in highschool can learn from such beings.

They are also a good place to reflect upon own actions. Seeing yourself through their eyes is very humbling.

I live amongst them, they constantly try to convert our children. I worry about this...our neice recently was converted into a cult because of this constant barrage of them.

I used to have a man I very much loved, he was a client I had for three years...and every night he had me read a prayer with him.

It prayed that the untrue religions of the world would pay for Christ's death.

Such love I had for this man, I read it every night in service.

Taking care of dying people...I experience many funerals. They often made me ill. Sounds strange, but it's true. After about 30 minutes of the preacher screaming about hell...I had to walk out to the bathroom. My Christian friends have suggested that I am possessed...but they would be right.

Possessed with truth.

My name is Eve...I bit the apple, then swallowed it whole...and instead of blaming the weaker being...Adam...I took several more apples to give to my children.:P

Ashvati
17 April 2010, 11:11 AM
What kind of apples? Delicious red ones? :3

All joking aside, when I was christian I was fortunately very lucky as far as hearing the fire and brimstone side. I didn't go to church very often, but the church I went to actually had a good priest. He was a very nice, intelligent man and never said nything about converts or hell. In fact, I actually have always gotten more trouble from atheists than I have from christians. That doesn't stop me from wanting to pleasantly greet Jehovah's witnesses at my door and invite them in for tea fully dressed as Mola Ram from Indiana Jones and see how much I can freak them out while still acting pleasant and civil though. :P

Oh, I did once overhear a recoverring alcoholic (you know the type of convert) saying how christianity had helped him because APARENTLY its the only religion out there that doesn't say you can more or less do whatever you want (if you were hearing me right now you would hear heavy sarcasm). He said some other things that were blatantly untrue but I can't remember them. Its great that it helped him, but he seriously needed to get his facts straight.

NayaSurya
17 April 2010, 11:45 AM
Granny Smith? Preferably with caramel and nuts? haha!

As you know, my neice was recent converted to a very conservative branch of Jehova's Witness....she was made to hand over every address she had for her friends and relatives. Since we live in a gated community they could not come to our door so they began mailing me a load of wretched material. I printed out my favorite desktop wallpaper I made by placing Siva onto a beautiful rose...then I write up one of my favorite verses from the Svetasvatara Upanishad.

Then I wrote that they should only write to me again if they believed Siva was Lord. So sad not to hear from them again.:p

Here is the picture I sent them-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/neoluna/th_shivawithtextfw5-1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/neoluna/shivawithtextfw5-1.jpg)

You can click on it to get to my large size.<3

Eastern Mind
17 April 2010, 12:53 PM
Vannakkam:

We have one neighbour who is more than a bit nuts about us being Hindu, and a few other things. She scares me. You have to be a bit careful around such people.

But another trick is to make sure Siva has a nice trident with him too.

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
18 April 2010, 02:19 AM
Oh, I did once overhear a recoverring alcoholic (you know the type of convert) saying how christianity had helped him because APARENTLY its the only religion out there that doesn't say you can more or less do whatever you want (if you were hearing me right now you would hear heavy sarcasm).

I have no idea where anyone can get the idea that Hinduism allows you to do whatever you want. Hindu mothers will give even Jewish mothers a run for their money. At least Jews are allowed to date in high school. :)

Eastern Mind
18 April 2010, 06:58 AM
I have no idea where anyone can get the idea that Hinduism allows you to do whatever you want. Hindu mothers will give even Jewish mothers a run for their money. At least Jews are allowed to date in high school. :)

Vannakkam:

What an unfortunate idea. Patanjali's 8 starts with Yamas, then niyamas. Even before hatha yoga. Now some of the new-agers think they can start with samadhi, and work there way backwards down to yamas. What Hindu mothers teach is the Yamas. Purity, etc.

But I think this idea came out of the 60s drug subculture when the Beatles went to see Maharishi, and all things Eastern became cool. The sneak peeks into inner worlds via the hallucinogens started it.

So now the end result is a disassociation of Eastern ideas with Hinduism, because people soon enough discovered that many traditional teachers actually taught ethics, not the free love of the 60s. So instead of listening to the gurus or following the wisdom of Sage Patanjali and the Yamas and Niyamas, you have this mishmash of wild ideas and convoluted erroneous concepts about kundalini and whatever else. And very few want to say its Hinduism. Even many of the groups openly disassociate their teachings and brand it universalism instead. I say call a spade a spade. It's Hindu.

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
18 April 2010, 07:19 AM
It is sad....because Hinduism is one, if not the most, morally upright religions in the history of mankind.

Much of it stems from Mc Donald's style yoga facilities and the neo-pagan movement here in the west. If I had a nickle everytime some whitelighter came at me with karma=wiccan three fold law....wicca robs religious beliefs of central ideas and then files off the edges to make it fit into the wicca mold. It's like a religious "crazy quilt".:p

Even now on facebook there's all sorts of "Karma" aps they have comepletely nothing to do with Karma.

Pagans on a whole are a very large mishmash of religious beliefs, most stripped of the morality.

As you said in a thread on here a few weeks ago...the minute they start reading the Tirukural they realize Hinduism doesn't give them a free ticket to do that sort of thing.


Purity is but freedom from desire,
and that comes from thirsting after Truth.
Tirukural 364


It's like a month or so ago when some right wing christian suggested Tiger Woods find Christ because the Buddhist religion was lacking and that Christ gave the sort of "Forgiveness" that kept a person from acting out immorally. LOL oh that's so funny it hurts to even type it.

Ashvati
18 April 2010, 11:12 AM
THank you so much for thecomment about wicca and so-called neo-paganism, I've said the same thing for years. They take whatever they like and leave out the important parts, and then they often try to claim its the religion that "the old pagans" (who I doubt ever existed) followed before missionaries came to ireland or britain or wherever is popular to say your religion is from at the time.

sanjaya
18 April 2010, 02:02 PM
It is sad....because Hinduism is one, if not the most, morally upright religions in the history of mankind.

Much of it stems from Mc Donald's style yoga facilities and the neo-pagan movement here in the west. If I had a nickle everytime some whitelighter came at me with karma=wiccan three fold law....wicca robs religious beliefs of central ideas and then files off the edges to make it fit into the wicca mold. It's like a religious "crazy quilt".:p

Even now on facebook there's all sorts of "Karma" aps they have comepletely nothing to do with Karma.

Pagans on a whole are a very large mishmash of religious beliefs, most stripped of the morality.

As you said in a thread on here a few weeks ago...the minute they start reading the Tirukural they realize Hinduism doesn't give them a free ticket to do that sort of thing.


Purity is but freedom from desire,
and that comes from thirsting after Truth.
Tirukural 364


Yes, I agree completely! Already we have Christians calling us pagans. I'm tired of some Westerners who jump on the Hindu bandwagon and embrace the pagan label. We aren't pagans or the godless heathens (whatever that means), and I wish they wouldn't reinforce this incorrect notion.


It's like a month or so ago when some right wing christian suggested Tiger Woods find Christ because the Buddhist religion was lacking and that Christ gave the sort of "Forgiveness" that kept a person from acting out immorally. LOL oh that's so funny it hurts to even type it.

I too was quite irked and surprised that Brit Hume had the audacity to say this despite being divorced. Divorce is pretty harshly condemned in the Christian religion he professes, as well as in Hinduism.

But let's give him some credit, at some level he's right. Only in Christianity will you find the sort of "forgiveness" that allows married men to have sex with more women than they can count, say a prayer, and be forgiven by God without any sort of punishment. Where, in this system, is justice for the dishonored wife? We believe that people who do this need to pay for their sins. And since we believe that punishment is commensurate to the sin, instead of this idea that all sins are equally deserving of eternal hell, we believe that it's possible for a person to pay for his sins without landing in eternal hell. We believe that karma can be alleviated through devotion to God, but we do not believe in free forgiveness or in paying for your sins vicariously through God. So yes, I suppose that Buddhism does not offer the kind of forgiveness that omits justice and common sense.

upsydownyupsy mv ss
19 April 2010, 12:30 AM
Could we just close this thread please? I'm getting irritated from reading it. Let all attack hinduism as much as they want, it is nature's law that truth will prevail at the end. You can't go against Nature! God according to other religions may be G.O.D(Generator Operator and destroyer) god, but for us, hes M.E.L... Manifestor, Evolutioner and Liberator. Any doubts? Feel free to ask :p.

upsydownyupsy mv ss
19 April 2010, 12:47 AM
Granny Smith? Preferably with caramel and nuts? haha!

As you know, my neice was recent converted to a very conservative branch of Jehova's Witness....she was made to hand over every address she had for her friends and relatives. Since we live in a gated community they could not come to our door so they began mailing me a load of wretched material. I printed out my favorite desktop wallpaper I made by placing Siva onto a beautiful rose...then I write up one of my favorite verses from the Svetasvatara Upanishad.

Then I wrote that they should only write to me again if they believed Siva was Lord. So sad not to hear from them again.:p

Here is the picture I sent them-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/neoluna/th_shivawithtextfw5-1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/neoluna/shivawithtextfw5-1.jpg)

You can click on it to get to my large size.<3
see this... u'll like it... :p http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nR9ldowRmIk

Kumar_Das
10 August 2010, 10:51 PM
If theres one thing Christians and Muslims can both hug each other about is that theres an anti-thesis to their deity, who is reponsible for the other end of duality.(Good vs Evil / Truth vs Falsehood)

Very nice and easy solution.

Sahasranama
11 August 2010, 12:40 AM
Hail Satan(Sanatana)! Thank you for creating Hinduism and Yoga and keeping us away from abrahman (abrahmamitic religions).

Kumar_Das
11 August 2010, 02:15 AM
Sanatanist = Anti-Satan

A-Brahm ic religions:

God (Mega God)

Angel (subordinate multiple Gods)

Prophets (Demi Gods)

Humans (Gods)

according to A-Brahm ism, we are all little Gods because we have free will. The Prophets are the minions. And angels are the many Gods that are subordinate to Mega God.

Mega God sits on a throne, literally.

Mega God has a physical form. And they personify Mega God.

I like how some moronic Hindus will say that Brahman is some "one God" as though it can be compared to the qualified polytheism that only accepts worship to singular entity of A-Braham ism.

Brahman is an IT. Not as "He".

It is not personal.

And it is not anything like the emotionally complex entity that has likes and dislikes called Allah.

"We believe in Allah, one and only, Almighty!"

yeah but you believe first in Muhammad, then Angels and then finally your God.

Muhammad and the Angels take preceedence in your believe system.

How do you believe in a God?

From the Holy Quran revealed to Prophet Muhammad!

By whom? Did Allah reveal directly?

By the Angel Jibril!

So God sent Jibril as a messenger to Muhammad, and Muhammad to the rest of the world?

Yes!

Well how do you know that it was really sent from Allah?

Because its stated in the Quran!

Yes but was it not words spoken by Muhammad?

Yes but those words were spoken as a revelation from Allah through Jibril

Well but was it not Muhammad who was only able to see Jibril?

It seems to me, that in order to believe in your God, you would have to first believe in a human, and supposed frequent visitations from an Angel that he only saw.

In reality the credibility lies entirely on this man. You may not worship him. But it is words that came out of his mouth that you claim to be infallible. Your faith rests upon him first and foremostly.

Atleast in the case of Bhagavad Gita, Vyasa is considered to be an incarnation of Vishnu.

And furthermore theres no force compulsion to accept the Bhagavad Gita. Its either take it or leave it.

Whereas you consider a man to be a messenger and the last one at that. You go at great lengths to revere him and protect his reputation. You are not allowed to represent him physically, but when it is done so, you react in a way that is almost as if you infact do worship him. Whats more, you consider him to be perfect. How can a mere man be perfect? Hindus themselves consider only God to be perfect. So you do infact ascribe a divine status and an attribute of God to him.

BhaktinAnna
12 August 2010, 01:36 AM
The whole idea of satan is entirely a late christian invention.
In judaism- from whom christianity supposedly takes its roots ( although its more near eastern pagan than judaic - even today) satan was nothing more than a fallen angel - someone who had become separate from god.

Back in the day - sin in judaism meant nothing more than to become separated from god - then considered the worst thing that could happen to you - and not unlike the idea that exists in many branches of hinduism.

When christianity reached europe -they had a job on their hands to convert the natives - especially in the UK since they were more than a little reluctant to let go of the old ways.

When they realised brute force wasnt working they decided to try assimilation instead - adopting non christian ideas and images into their faith - in order to win over the resistant natives.

herner/cerne/ cernunnos - a primeval god of the forest wild hunt and the primitive need to survive that exists in all - had been woshiped for over 2000 years in much of north western europe - and still a favorite with pagans today - was a man wearing a stags head and horns - often in basic animal clothing as well ...

the christians were more than a little afraid of him - and the darkness he respresnted - and took what was a benevolent - if slightly dark and unpredictable deity - and turned him into the epitomy of evil = hence the devil with horns and often red ( as in the blood associated with the hunt and the spine chakra) with animal features...

Alise
12 August 2010, 03:27 PM
Namaste,

In Judaism actually Satan is working for God, just the dirty job, cause they believe angels don't have free will therefore they can't be fallen. Also concept of Hell for jews is not really there. some believe in reincarnation. Others believe this is only life & there's no afterlife. Also Judaism doesn't really have the only right path belief. I should know, I actually wanted to convert to Judaism before I noticed book I had about ayurveda & my heart found Hinduism.

I find funny the fact, that there are Christians who believe Judaism is satanic & EVIL.

Have a nice day,
~Alice

Eastern Mind
12 August 2010, 04:17 PM
Vannakkam SA:

This post gets me wondering. For converts, which is the greater motivator, getting rid of the old religion, or the discovery of the new one? Is it as simple as the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, or is it "I hate this religion I'm in. It makes absolutely no sense. I just need to get out." And then whether it is Judaism, Buddhism, or Hinduism that you first meet on the way out the door, that's the new religion?

Just wondering here. Sorry to be so very off topic. I'll start a new thread if there's interest.

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
12 August 2010, 05:16 PM
I see your point EM. I would hope someone doesn't become a Hindu solely to get out of Christianity. Then again, Christians believe that religious identity is based on profession of faith rather than birth. So I can see why someone might join another religion just so that they can say that they profess some religious belief other than Christianity.

NayaSurya
12 August 2010, 11:02 PM
Vannakkam SA:

This post gets me wondering. For converts, which is the greater motivator, getting rid of the old religion, or the discovery of the new one? Is it as simple as the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, or is it "I hate this religion I'm in. It makes absolutely no sense. I just need to get out." And then whether it is Judaism, Buddhism, or Hinduism that you first meet on the way out the door, that's the new religion?

Just wondering here. Sorry to be so very off topic. I'll start a new thread if there's interest.

Aum Namasivaya

I think it's right on topic.:p

For me, neither of the things were my motivation. The only motivation for me was a sincere desire to find the truth. The things in my heart were not aligned with the religions my family floated through...I never could reconcile with them. Not one moment.

Being thrown around into so many beliefs as a child I realized that the truth was very subjective. The way Christianity operates is absolutely not aligned with my heart, Sanatana Dharma is.

Oh, wouldn't it have been lovely to be that blissfully ignorant that I could simply swallow that humungous pill and slip into that stagnant pond with every single being in my community?

My sons wouldn't have girls ask them in school if they would go to church, then my son tells them we are Hindu...and the children stop talking to him...or worse, harass them.

I can not understand how anyone could convert, or remove themselves from a birth religion, here in the U.S. for the "grass is greener" reason.

Because the stigma and complete ostracism from the main stream culture here, who think we have lost our minds or have started worshiping satan...is so profound. But also the resistance we recieve from some of the precious ones who do align with our hearts, when we come to them...praying to find friendship and advice.

Truly one who would come and stay upon this choice knows there is no such state as "greener grass". The knowledge of such things is precious...worth the cost of ostracism...isolation. I would choose it a thousand times over and never doubt it was the correct decision.

Coming for the knowledge means even if that means you find out you are nothing more than a filthy ignorant fool....you accept it and strive for better.

Alise
13 August 2010, 02:28 AM
Namaste,

Eastern Mind, I was secretly interested in Judaism while I was christian & felt bad about it. Then after relationships with best friend fell apart, I talked with my mom about my guilty interest & she were supportive. But I guess even though I thought it's good religion, it didn't satisfy my soul. I had this book GirlForce using basics of ayurveda, something about meditation & yoga, so I looked into ayurveda more & more & then somehow I found Hinduism, why or how I don't remember anymore.

My relationship with Christiany where bad only after I left it & saw that I was blind follower & most christians I know are hypocrites and how many christians were so obsessed with proving that every other religion or denomination is follower of Satan/false & so on. Obviously because of Judaism I already left belief of Satan as fallen angel behind.

Now I have totally different world view than I did before. Actually Judaism helped me a lot, too. But Hinduism is my best & right path. And even if something would happen that I would leave Hinduism [& I hope it would never happen] I will always have memories & lessons learned from Hinduism.

Have a nice day,
~Alice

sunyata07
13 August 2010, 03:33 PM
Vannakkam SA:

This post gets me wondering. For converts, which is the greater motivator, getting rid of the old religion, or the discovery of the new one? Is it as simple as the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, or is it "I hate this religion I'm in. It makes absolutely no sense. I just need to get out." And then whether it is Judaism, Buddhism, or Hinduism that you first meet on the way out the door, that's the new religion?

Just wondering here. Sorry to be so very off topic. I'll start a new thread if there's interest.

Aum Namasivaya


Namaste EM,

I don't think that point is off topic. I actually find it quite pertinent to what is being discussed. Like Sanjaya says, I hope no one would ever jump at the decision to become a Hindu (or indeed, a Buddhist or any other religious follower) just because they find the label of "Christian" cumbersome!

For the record: I don't hate Christianity. I don't even dislike it. The only thing that I really have issue with is its highly dualist nature. Aside from that, I just find it highly inadequate for my needs. It's like slaking your thirst with an egg cup full of water, when what you really need is a great, big lake. :)


Another trend that I'm seeing is atheists who adhere to buddhist philosophy and call themselves buddhist. This may seem contradictory to some and make sense to others, but I do know several such people, and they do adhere to buddhist teachings and at least one of them does study buddhist scriptures.

I'm going to deviate from what is being discussed for a moment to address the above quote, and sorry for bringing this up again so late after this was posted, but I find that remark very true indeed. I'm not sure if it's a subconscious response for atheists to feel the need to identify with something spiritual, but most of these guys are not really Buddhists IMO. They're atheists under the label of Buddhism, which isn't unthinkable (and not inappropriate either), but it's a growing trend if you look around the internet. I think they like the idea of being Buddhists, or even following Buddhist philosophy and the peaceful way of life, but the true follower of Buddha is not interested in the God question. Rather than negating the existence of a God, he remains impartial, indifferent. For him, the question is unimportant: the universe with its karmic laws and unending cycles remain as it is, even if he doesn't consider there being a Divine Being. Most Western Buddhists I've seen (either online or in person) are too attached to the idea of an atheistic universe for me to consider them true Buddhists.

atanu
14 August 2010, 12:51 AM
I'm going to deviate from what is being discussed for a moment to address the above quote, and sorry for bringing this up again so late after this was posted, but I find that remark very true indeed. I'm not sure if it's a subconscious response for atheists to feel the need to identify with something spiritual, but most of these guys are not really Buddhists IMO. They're atheists under the label of Buddhism, which isn't unthinkable (and not inappropriate either), but it's a growing trend if you look around the internet. I think they like the idea of being Buddhists, or even following Buddhist philosophy and the peaceful way of life, but the true follower of Buddha is not interested in the God question. Rather than negating the existence of a God, he remains impartial, indifferent. For him, the question is unimportant: the universe with its karmic laws and unending cycles remain as it is, even if he doesn't consider there being a Divine Being. Most Western Buddhists I've seen (either online or in person) are too attached to the idea of an atheistic universe for me to consider them true Buddhists.

A most beautiful description. Your keen insight and impartial view of most things is refreshing to me. I looked back and found you to be 22 only. A wonder -- at least by my statndards. Sorry for the emotional gush.

Regards

purnapragya
15 August 2010, 05:34 AM
Why all of u give them so time?U know christan r those who lived in darkness.They thought this universe was created just 5000yrs ago,they belive in supernatural thing so they organised spiritual healing.they think that god impregnant a virgin so he gave birth gods child.Actually they have brain like goat so they have such rapist god.Mother terasa in his death bed said she was firstrated ,not to see god and said I m doubt of existance of god,hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.................................
For giving some one sainthood they need miracle.Its first error in its holy bible,where matthu and peter always contradict each other.

BhaktinAnna
16 August 2010, 12:43 PM
Vannakkam SA:

This post gets me wondering. For converts, which is the greater motivator, getting rid of the old religion, or the discovery of the new one? Is it as simple as the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, or is it "I hate this religion I'm in. It makes absolutely no sense. I just need to get out." And then whether it is Judaism, Buddhism, or Hinduism that you first meet on the way out the door, that's the new religion?

Just wondering here. Sorry to be so very off topic. I'll start a new thread if there's interest.

Aum Namasivaya

I think to put it down to a grass is greener perspective is to make the assumption that converts are realy quite shallow and that its all about wanting something that you shouldnt have or that your faith says is bad, trying to be a rebel etc ..

From personal experience I can tell you its not like that.
Im ''white'' albeit with a very mixed background . I have roma and hungarian and distant mongol blood in me . All my life Ive felt more east than west. I hung out more with asian kids all through school than I ever did with white kids. I went to diwali and eid parties, watched bollywood and gabbled in baby punjabi and my sikh friends house..

For a long time I wrestled with what I felt I should be ( ie -the white middle class english background I was raised with) and the pull I felt to all things eastern. I tried christianity, then went back to my grandmothers roots and converted to judaism. I explored Islam, paganism, buddhism and immersed myself fully in experiencing the faiths but it never felt right.

Then I stumbled accross a mandir in London and I felt instantly like a missing piece had been put in the puzzle. I became a hindu not because of the cool clothes, or because I like the razzle dazzle, or because it had an element of forbiddenness in judaism or christianity.

Id be a hindu without all those things because for me becoming a hindu was a home comming. It gave me bounderies and freedom and a sense of being in the place I should be that had been missing all my life.

More than any of that - the philosophy, the practices, Everything made SENSE. It fitted in with the way i saw and understood the world with no conflict from my part.

Thats why I became a hindu.. and not because the grass just seemed greener

charlebs
05 November 2010, 07:36 AM
I don't even think Satan ever existed, it was merely a title for a half god (angel) to test a human soul
but Shiva does rule over the ignorent devil worshippers that have existed from the beginning of time, and even they will approach him because he is ever merciful
and even if they blasphemies god they will sometimes be protected out of Shiva's goodness
Shiva is God's unending potency, and he will continue to transform our body and conscience for the never ending path of rising and falling

I believe even the earth is a conscient entity who will continue to advance due to God's potency

Sahasranama
05 November 2010, 07:45 AM
I don't even think Satan ever existed, it was merely a title for a half god (angel) to test a human soul
but Shiva does rule over the ignorent devil worshippers that have existed from the beginning of time, and even they will approach him because he is ever merciful
and even if they blasphemies god they will sometimes be protected out of Shiva's goodness
Shiva is God's unending potency, and he will continue to transform our body and conscience for the never ending path of rising and falling

I believe even the earth is a conscient entity who will continue to advance due to God's potency

In the west Shiva is sometimes associated with the Greek god Dionisys who is sometimes associated with the Christian devil. I think Hindu gods have been an inspiration for a lot pagan Gods who in turn have been an inspiration for the Christian concept of Satan. Christianity has succeeded in demonising pagan religions who have their origin in Hinduism. Satan is even carrying a trishula which was also an atribute of the greek god Neptune. There are pictures of someone very similar to Ganesha depicted as behemoth. Christians have turned Shiva and his son Ganesha into Satan and his helper behemoth. When Christians say Satan they actually mean Sanatana Dharma.

Behemoth:
http://www.occultopedia.com/images_/behemoth.jpg

charlebs
05 November 2010, 07:57 AM
that is true, it seems religions with a founder have more hostility to local beliefs
in my books it not only says muhammed was paranoid, even jesus wanted to rally an army against the non believers.
jesus saw himself as the sword of God, and taught the world to be introvert while muhammed taught to be extravert (although muhammed did stand up for women´s rights, who didn´t have right to salary, heirdom and were often killed as a baby)

either way, the core of christianity has always been very biased against other religions, and don´t forget the pope who did not even disprove of hitler´s actions.
though there are those who are very devout and open minded about the knowledge of God of other cultures, but I honestly don´t see that much of truly religious christians, most don´t really mind their church and vows anymore
everyone´s attending materialism, but I have high hopes that we´re slowly growing up

Adhvagat
22 March 2011, 03:25 AM
In the west Shiva is sometimes associated with the Greek god Dionisys who is sometimes associated with the Christian devil. I think Hindu gods have been an inspiration for a lot pagan Gods who in turn have been an inspiration for the Christian concept of Satan. Christianity has succeeded in demonising pagan religions who have their origin in Hinduism. Satan is even carrying a trishula which was also an atribute of the greek god Neptune. There are pictures of someone very similar to Ganesha depicted as behemoth. Christians have turned Shiva and his son Ganesha into Satan and his helper behemoth. When Christians say Satan they actually mean Sanatana Dharma.

I think the first step to de-demonization is the analysis of the forming ground of the catholic demon figure and how it's a cheap externalization of the dark aspects of our mind.

I don't have much info on this Shiva/Dionysius, but sounds like nonsense anyway. The only deity that is more or less similar across cultures is Yamaraja/Enma-Daio/Hades. I guess dying stays the same all along. :rolleyes:

Is there any connection between Shiva and Neptune? I wondered because of the Trishula. Found a Stephen Knapp page on it: http://www.stephen-knapp.com/art_photo_twentytwo.htm

Another interesting thing that you mention is that when christians say SATAN they are referring to SAnaTANa Dharma somehow. I also find it funny how the grand priest of the catholic church is named PAPA, in which in sanskrit means sin. So Sanatana Dharma and Catholicism present themselves as diametrically opposed lines. I know this is just word play and perhaps with little value, but I'm just observing.

realdemigod
22 March 2011, 11:02 AM
what a silly post.. making me laugh like mad.. are ppl becoming innocent/dumb or becoming non intelligent species?!

PARAM
22 March 2011, 11:40 AM
what a silly post.. making me laugh like mad.. are ppl becoming innocent/dumb or becoming non intelligent species?!

I don't think so

Posts here contains intelligence too.

Adhvagat
22 March 2011, 04:39 PM
what a silly post.. making me laugh like mad.. are ppl becoming innocent/dumb or becoming non intelligent species?!

I confess I didn't check the whole thread, I'm just proposing some debate on Christian distortion of non-Christian belief systems.

Ramakrishna
22 March 2011, 09:23 PM
Namaste Pietro,



Another interesting thing that you mention is that when christians say SATAN they are referring to SAnaTANa Dharma somehow. I also find it funny how the grand priest of the catholic church is named PAPA, in which in sanskrit means sin. So Sanatana Dharma and Catholicism present themselves as diametrically opposed lines. I know this is just word play and perhaps with little value, but I'm just observing.

Very interesting. There probably is no connection and just coincidence, but it certainly makes me wonder :headscratch:

Jai Sri Ram

Rationalist
28 March 2011, 05:53 PM
what a silly post.. making me laugh like mad.. are ppl becoming innocent/dumb or becoming non intelligent species?!

Just Christians. For that is what they are; sub-humans. :D

TheOne
29 March 2011, 02:53 PM
Note: These following pictures / videos were posted by a Facebook group actively proselytizing.

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=199609213405823&oid=139247422786146&comments

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=187814597929428&set=pu.139247422786146

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=188046551239566&set=a.174277929283095.47407.139247422786146

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=175366312507590&set=a.174277929283095.47407.139247422786146

http://www.facebook.com/notes/jesus-love-is-so-great/hinduism-click-to-read/198261510183897

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=187814634596091&set=pu.139247422786146



Please my friends, I URGE you to report these photos and videos as they are direct attacks and misrepresentations on Hindu culture.

Namaste

Eastern Mind
29 March 2011, 03:45 PM
deleted

Sahasranama
29 March 2011, 03:55 PM
Please my friends, I URGE you to report these photos and videos as they are direct attacks and misrepresentations on Hindu culture.I have reported it, but maybe it's smart to keep a copy of these images on your computer. You'll never know when you can use them as evidence against evangelicalism.

Sahasranama
29 March 2011, 04:24 PM
Vannakkam TheOne: How do I do that to facebook? I don't even have an account. Please let me know and I will.

Aum Namasivaya

You need to have an account.

Anyone knows how to respond on the comments section? I don't use facebook that often.

TheOne
29 March 2011, 04:30 PM
I don't know, I think you have to "like" the page that these pictures are based on and that will give you permission to comment on these.

But I have not intent to communicate with these people stuck in the realms of ignorance. They cannot take 2 minutes to even learn the most basic of basics about Sanatana Dharma.

Sahasranama
29 March 2011, 04:35 PM
Yes you are right, I have no intent to "like" these people on facebook either. It's troubling to see all the comments though, many from people in India. Last time this was posted on the forum, I also reported every image to facebook, but they have not done anything. More people on this forum, like Pietro, must have reported this the last time. Seems like they are allowing this on facebook, maybe we should send a message to the HAF to see how they will handle it.

Sahasranama
29 March 2011, 04:52 PM
It seems facebook is going to continue to allow this, so please contact HAF:

http://www.hafsite.org/contact_us

charlebs
06 April 2011, 04:43 AM
if there's really a satan, someone who gives you hard choices in life, then why assume he is not ordered by god directly?
why would satan be as powerful as Brahm? was satan not a creation of GOD? just because he is still in heaven with his followers does not mean he is actually trying his best to ruin our chances of a new golden era.

I do not believe america will fall like all the old empires based on lies. the world has already awakened and I think mother nature will stop its violence, even if she is controlled by tesla technology.

but that's just my opinion.

Rudra Sadhaka
03 July 2011, 08:54 PM
Namaste,

The character "Satan" is a legend from Abrahamic religions, it only makes sense if people get into the world of fantasy that is at the foundation of those creeds.

Let's not waste time and effort discussing about sick fantasies and concentrate on Dharma that is a far more positive approach.

rajputistan
08 July 2011, 07:59 PM
Satan have created the Abrahamic religions.

Bhakti
19 July 2011, 10:29 AM
In the Bible, the Abrahamic God kills 2,476,633 people (not including instances where no numbers are given, such as the story of Noah's flood and the plagues of Egypt). Satan kills 10. A religion founded by Satan would be the more compassionate one, if he actually existed. :p

But in all seriousness, of course they would say that. And there is nothing you can say to convince them otherwise. Just pray that they find the truth on their own, I suppose.