Shiva Linga - Significance?

[srivijaya]

Dear friends,
I have a question regarding the significance of the Shiva Linga. I have found this description:

Shiva Linga is a wide spread Indian Phallic figure. It consists of a feminine base �Yoni� or �vagina� and a rising masculine portion �the Phallus� or �penis.� The Linga artifacts, dating from the first century BC to the third century AD, are shaped like realistic �Phalli�. Thereafter the shape becomes progressively more abstract. By medieval times, its observable portion, rising from the Yoni, forms a round block with domed apex.
http://www.vepachedu.org/linga.htm
With this it seems that both the Yoni and Linga are depicted.

This is perhaps symbolic of the indivisible union of Shiva and Shakti and is reminiscent of the Yab-Yum within Vajrayana.

Beyond being an object of veneration, is there a meditative significance, or instruction, for Shaivite contemplatives?

Namaste

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

For me I have heard this POV for some time;

Shiva Linga is a wide spread Indian Phallic figure
that the liṅgaṃ represents the phallus. I am not fond of this view and never bought in to this idea.

I could see how one may view the liṅgaṃ as the generative power of the Universe, yet I find no comfort in this POV.
Liṅgaṃ लिङ्गं - means 'mark' or 'sign'. It is my POV that śiva-liṅgaṃ is a 'mark' or stambha स्तम्भ ( some write stamba स्तम्ब). Stambha is a post , pillar , column , beam. But what kind of pillar? A yūpa यूप stambha स्तम्भ, or sacrificial piller. This stambha some say, is a cosmic column; that is, it connects heaven or svar with earth or pṛithvī ( pṛithvī = the material level of creation).


I look to svāmī Lakṣman-jū's view on this matter and he suggests too it’s a mistake to consider that the liṅgaṃ represents the phallus. I then remembered what svāmī Śivānanda said on this matter¹:
"The popular belief is that the Siva Lingam represents the phallus or the virile organ, the emblem of the generative power or principle in nature. This is not only a serious mistake, but also a grave blunder. In the post-Vedic period, the Linga became symbolical of the generative power of the Lord Siva. Linga is the differentiating mark. It is certainly not the sex-mark. You will find in the Linga Purana: Pradhanam prakritir yadahur-lingamuttamam; Gandhavarnarasairhinam sabda-sparsadi-varjitam—The foremost Linga which is primary and is devoid of smell, colour, taste, hearing, touch, etc., is spoken of as Prakriti (Nature) ."


praṇām

words and references:
All About Hinduism, Appendix I, svāmī Śivānanda, The Divine Life Society.

[Eastern Mind]

I concur with Sri Yajvan. Never have been fond of this view. I think it probably comes from western analysts of Europe who love to create anything they can to belittle our religion. Come to think of it, that's a sore point altogether. Here in America we have far too many non-Hindus teaching Hinduism 101 et al at the university level. Now I wonder how well my veshti (versus suit and tie) would go over at Southern Methodist University teaching their bible class.

[vcindiana]

I understand many people get offended whenever there is public display of certain parts of human body. It becomes even more offensive when these body parts are shown as representing God/s. This thread appears to be about different perceptions when God is seen through an image.
In a little different twist I wonder many times why do we keep these parts of our body covered out of a sense of shame. To me sex is not dirty, but rather sex is holy. Cave men and women walked around nude. Somewhere our ancestors discovered God and saw the presence of God in the ability of a man and a woman to create life out of their love for each other. These body parts we cover are the ones that contain the secret of creating and nurturing life. Creation of life is holy, so we cover them out of an instinctive memory of reverence. With the loss of sense of reverence, nudity becomes casual, no different from the animals. For animals mating and reproduction are purely biologic processes. The holiness of life, love and birth are lost when God is factored out of the equation. It is interesting to find that human beings are the only species who face each other during a sexual act; we are the only species to whom it matters with whom we are sharing the sexual act.

Love.................VC

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté VC,


I understand many people get offended whenever there is public display of certain parts of human body. It becomes even more offensive when these body parts are shown as representing God/s. This thread appears to be about different perceptions when God is seen through an image.
In a little different twist I wonder many times why do we keep these parts of our body covered out of a sense of shame. To me sex is not dirty, but rather sex is holy. Cave men and women walked around nude. Somewhere our ancestors discovered God and saw the presence of God in the ability of a man and a woman to create life out of their love for each other. These body parts we cover are the ones that contain the secret of creating and nurturing life. Creation of life is holy, so we cover them out of an instinctive memory of reverence. With the loss of sense of reverence, nudity becomes casual, no different from the animals. For animals mating and reproduction are purely biologic processes. The holiness of life, love and birth are lost when God is factored out of the equation. It is interesting to find that human beings are the only species who face each other during a sexual act; we are the only species to whom it matters with whom we are sharing the sexual act.


I see what you are saying. Let me offer a few ideas ( ideas, not corrections).

You may visit several temples and quickly see the 'parts' are aptly visible. There is a recognition that the 'parts' are well, part of the whole.

I understand that people my be offended with the public display of another's 'personals'. For me, I would generally be embarrassed for the other person frankly.

you mention
Cave men and women walked around nude Did they have a choice? Not too many shops and boutiques to frequent for shoes and pants (me thinks) during those times ;) .

Yet the idea we have been considering is the proper view of what the liṅgaṃ is. And by association it has been misappropriated (IMHO) for something it is not.

praṇām

[sm78]

While I see nothing against the phallus interpretation, I don't see much practical benefit out it, except for some dogma. The iconography of lingam is very deep as is its effect on the meditative mind. It is an indespensible tool in laya of mind ...

Those who know the anatomy of the brain:- left right and the centre-medulla oblongota (linga), the 6 nerves which criss-cross this centre forming the mysterious 12-petaled lotus (externalised as the 12 jyotir lingas), the well known dwidal chakra(yoni pitha).

Linga is an icon of the seed (of creation). And if we look around in nature any seed formation (look at plant seeds for example) resembles shiva's linga. and these seeds are generally well protected in a twin leaf yoni. Brain is the seed and root of the human body.

[atanu]

We had a discussion on Mark of the Lord earlier. Hope Srivijyaya finds it useful.

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1296

Lingam is One. It is the symbol of the start of space and time, and it is the symbol where space and time disintegrate and meet the Singularity called OM.

Om

[atanu]

Wonder where Agnideva is? May we request him to join us and add value as he only can?

[atanu]

Additionally the following mantras from Mahanarayana Upanishad clarify the concept of indicatory emblem of the Lord.




Mahanarayana Upanishad


XVI-1: [By these twenty-two names ending with salutations they consecrate the Sivalinga for all] � the Linga which is representative of soma and Surya, and holding which in the hand holy formulas are repeated and which purifies all:


Nidhanapataye Namah ![Salutations to the Lord of the dissolution of the universe !]


Nidhanapataantikaya Namah ![Salutations to the end-maker (Yama who is responsible for the death of all creatures) !]


Urdhvaya Namah ! Salutations to the Most High standing at the head of the categories which evolve into the universe !]


Urdhva-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to the principle of Sadasiva embodying the power of Intelligence !]


Hiranyaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is beneficial and charming to creatures !]


Hiranya-Lingaya Namah ! Salutations to Him, He who is visualized as the Linga made of gold !]


Suvarnaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is endowed with attractive splendour !]


Suvarna-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is of the form of Linga made of suvarna (silver) !]


Divyaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is the source of bliss in heaven !]


Divya-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is worshipped as the divine emblem !]


Bhavaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is the source of the cycle of birth and death !]


Bhava-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is worshipped as the Linga by human beings !]


Sarvaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is the suppresser of the universe at the time of final dissolution !]


Sarva-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who has the shape of the Linga emblem of Sarva, who gives bliss !]


Shivaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is most auspicious !]


Shiva-Lingaya Namah ![Salutations to Him, He who has the form of Sivalinga !]


Jvalaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who has the form of a flaming splendour !]


Jvala-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who has the form of the brilliant Linga !]


Atmaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is the Spirit - Atman - dwelling in all creatures !]


Atma-Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is concealed in the heart of allcreatures being their inmost Self !]


Paramaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is unsurpassed !]


Parama Lingaya Namah ! [Salutations to Him, He who is the Supreme Lord of bliss and liberation indicated by the Linga emblem !]


Om Namah Shivaya

[srivijaya]

Many thanks for all the replies and the link to the previous thread. The mark (in my opinion) is very profound and can doubtlessly be interpreted on many levels. In your place, I would have no interest in engaging with those who wish to equate the linga with some kind of phallus worship (however they may understand that) for their own malicious or misguided reasons. The linga does not even require defending against such ignorant assertions. Their failure to grasp the importance of it is their loss alone.

I liked the explanation that 'Linga is Jiva', as it indicates, to my mind, the inseparability of the depicted elements with our own condition - at all levels. Movement and stillness and the story of our arisen state. The gateway to birth and death and the release from both are all implicit in this symbol.

Namaste

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté




Liṅgaṃ लिङ्गं - means 'mark' or 'sign'. It is my POV that śiva-liṅgaṃ is a 'mark' or stambha स्तम्भ ( some write stamba स्तम्ब). Stambha is a post , pillar , column , beam. But what kind of pillar? A yūpa यूप stambha स्तम्भ, or sacrificial piller. This stambha some say, is a cosmic column; that is, it connects heaven or svar with earth or pṛithvī ( pṛithvī = the material level of creation).


Here is another view for your consideration... I am not promoting this idea, just another point of view; we may or may not agree with it, of which no harm is done.

Another view of liṅgaṃ लिङ्गं suggests its connection to the following:
likh लिख् - to paint, engrave, write; to make smooth, polish. The notion here is Śiva liṅgaṃ as the 'mark' or 'symbol' suggests He is the Supreme Creator, the Supreme Sculptor of the universe ( from ' to make smooth, polish' suggesting the sculptor).

Another view:
ling+gam : ling लिण्ग्- is to go to; gam गम् is to go towards or approach;

Śiva liṅgaṃ is the 'mark' or 'symbol' which makes one go towards or approach Śiva. It is suggested that this liṅgaṃ is a natural object for meditation and the mind finds its ease with its shape. Recall that this was one of srivijaya's original questions in post 1:

Beyond being an object of veneration, is there a meditative significance, or instruction, for Shaivite contemplatives?


oṁ liṅgaya namaḥ

praṇām

[atanu]

More information here:

http://www.shaivam.org/articles/art_sivalinga_saba.htm

Om

[OmSriShivaShakti]

What I had learned was that the Shiva Linga was a symbol of the characteristic of Shiva that He is without any beginning nor end. So the first Shiva Lingas were spheres or oval-shaped, but so that these things would not roll away, it had to be mounted on something. Then the base of the Linga evolved so that performing an abhisheka would be easier. The view that the Shiva Linga is a phallic symbol and its base is a yoni or vagina is entirely incorrect and is a disgusting fallacy created by the British colonists and Christian evangelists to discount and degrade the Hindu religion.

[Znanna]

What I had learned was that the Shiva Linga was a symbol of the characteristic of Shiva that He is without any beginning nor end. So the first Shiva Lingas were spheres or oval-shaped, but so that these things would not roll away, it had to be mounted on something. Then the base of the Linga evolved so that performing an abhisheka would be easier. The view that the Shiva Linga is a phallic symbol and its base is a yoni or vagina is entirely incorrect and is a disgusting fallacy created by the British colonists and Christian evangelists to discount and degrade the Hindu religion.


Namaste,

I entirely disagree with this.

Rather, the notion of "disgusting" is entirely degrading to the symbolism.

Yoga is ecstatic, UNION.

Perhaps y'all would consider me perverse for saying so, but I must say that pure union with the divine is only marginally replicated by the physical.

ZN

[atanu]

Namaste,
Yoga is ecstatic, UNION.

Perhaps y'all would consider me perverse for saying so, but I must say that pure union with the divine is only marginally replicated by the physical.

ZN

Namaste ZN,

You speak wisdom. The objection usually is to those views which do not know or talk of the divine. Moreover, the linga (indicatory mark) of the one who is unlimited, is also of unlimited significance.

I agree that primarily it is ecstacy, as Shiva is known as more blissful than the bliss. But I chose to say that it is not the physical phallus.


(In upanishad it is said that the raised parts of us are special seats of divinity. I have thought and can come to no other inference that the breasts -- the source of imperishable milk and phallus -- the source of imperishable life, are indeed such parts. Yet breasts and phallus again are indicatory.)

Om Namah Shivaya

[Eastern Mind]

With all the philosophy, historical debate, symbolism etc., put aside for but a brief moment, when one (speaking from personal experience, perhaps others will differ) stands in front of lingam in humble sincere worship, a scintillating energy radiates outward from it to the devotee. This energy is God, the unmanifest cause of all things, working in unseen ways on the devotee's ego and heart, magnetically drawing the devotee inward and closer. The Self, effulgent in light, beckons. Im my humble opinion, this is the real significance.

Aum Lingesvaraya Namaha

Aum Namasivaya

[OmSriShivaShakti]

"Perhaps y'all would consider me perverse for saying so, but I must say that pure union with the divine is only marginally replicated by the physical."

Yes Znanna, I would consider you perverse for that and I still maintain my position that this explanation of the Linga and Yoni as sexual organs was created by anti-Hindu British colonists.

[Znanna]

"Perhaps y'all would consider me perverse for saying so, but I must say that pure union with the divine is only marginally replicated by the physical."

Yes Znanna, I would consider you perverse for that and I still maintain my position that this explanation of the Linga and Yoni as sexual organs was created by anti-Hindu British colonists.



Namaste,

Yoga is union.

As most humans only know "union" in a sexual sense, that is the closest proximity.

The embrace of the Beloved, the Twin, the other which is the same, the closest analogy is sex in our mental perspective, I think.

Just to put it into context, I'm celibate for the past 30 or so years ... in a physical sense anyways :)

ZN

[devotee]

Namaste,

I have not read any authentic scripture which says that the Shiva Linga is the depiction of phallus & the base is the depiction is the "yoni"/Vagina. I don't know how it started. If anyone knows, he may please make me enlightened on this issue.

In Hindi/Samskrit, Linga has another meaning, "symbol". It must be understood that Lord Shiva is one of the earliest Godheads worshipped in Hinduism. In Hindu tradition, the shape is not important for the deity. If anyone has seen a proper Hindu Pooja, it would be clear to him that a shapeless lump of cow dung placed near pooja place is worshipped as Lord Ganesha after invoking Lord Ganesha. If you go to villages in India, there are Kuldevatas (the deity of the family) placed in the Pooja Room which are just rounded lumps of earth. Similarly, there are many temples where the Mother Goddess is worshipped but the image kept is just rounded lumps of earth. When I went to a Rameshwaram, the priest on the sea beach made a lump of wet sand made in somewhat round shape as Lord Shiva for worship.

So, the shapes are not at all important in Hinduism. The round shape & cylindrical shape are easy to form with hand & that is why it was widely adopted as symbol of Lord Shiva, imho. Why waste time in carving out images of Lord Shiva in human body shape when he can be worshipped in simple image !

West's obsession to Sex is well known. It raises very high curiosity among them, if they are told that there is Deity which is in the shape of phallus ! Then it becomes saleable ... it has a market value. Otherwise who is interested in Lord Shiva ?

You tell any Hindu in India that this symbol of Lord Shiva is nothing but the phallus & then be ready to face the music !

-------------------------------------
Some talk about this symbol as Union ... was the separation from the Source as male & female ? Who is the male & who is the female here ? What about those who are not born from sex.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with Phallus or Vagina & they & their union are certainly not dirty ... the dirt is in our mind. This creation comes from the union of phallus & the vagina & we all have come from that union. So, how can they or their union be dirty ? However, linking this symbol with Lord Shiva has no authoritative scripture's support, as far a I know. This is simply an outcome of the business-sense of some vested interests who coined this idea to make it saleable.

I don't mind being proved wrong but let someone quote some original authoritative scripture.

OM

[Znanna]

http://exoticindia.com/article/formsofshiva

Namaste,

According to this article, the image/symbolism predates Vedas by considerable years, thus it could be argued that scriptural reference might be irrelevant, as the artifacts are a precursor.


ZN


ETA - that said, the more metaphysical (rather than physical) symbolism of no beginning, no end, also pertains, IMO

[atanu]

http://exoticindia.com/article/formsofshiva

Namaste,

ETA - that said, the more metaphysical (rather than physical) symbolism of no beginning, no end, also pertains, IMO

Namaste ZN,

That is correct. The lingam, in ways more than we can describe points to the play of Supreme with its shakti. But scripture finally says: Shiva is alinga.

He has no master in the world, no ruler, nor is there even a sign of Him by which He can be inferred. He is the cause, the Lord of the lord of the organs; and He is without progenitor or controller.

Om Namah Shivaya

[devotee]

Namaste Znanna,



According to this article, the image/symbolism predates Vedas by considerable years, thus it could be argued that scriptural reference might be irrelevant, as the artifacts are a precursor.


I think you mean the "Written Vedas" above otherwise how the God was correctly understood without revelation in the Purity of Mind ?

I am not able to say whether what you are saying is right or wrong but I would like to point out here that there is only one Shiva Ling which is shown in the link in the form of Phallus. The date when it was made, who made it & what was the story behind it is not known. So, that single linga cannot really be taken as an authority to believe that Shiva-linga is actually the Phallus of Lord Shiva.

If someone wants to worship Lord Shiva keeping an image & attributes of Phallus in his mind, I have no problem & imo, Lord Shiva also would have no problem in that. After all,

"Jaaki Rahi Bhaavanaa Jaisi, Prabhu Moorat Dekhi Tin Taisi"

====> People see God in the image which suits their belief & thinking.

OM

[Znanna]

Opinions differ as to whether Shiva had an Aryan or non-Aryan origin, or whether he was a Vedic god or otherwise, but there is absolute unanimity in regard to the fact that he had iconic presence much before the Vedas came into being. Even V. S. Wakankar, the great champion of Vedic supremacy always defying the Western angle in regard to Aryan influx over Indian subcontinent, does not deny it. He admits that many Vedic beliefs, that is, beliefs which had a Vedic character, had come to prevail amongst masses much before actual Vedas were composed. And, Shaivite cult was one such stream.

Namaste, devotee,

The point I am trying to make is that linga is rather an iconic representation which pre-dates written scripture, in response to your request:


I have not read any authentic scripture which says that the Shiva Linga is the depiction of phallus & the base is the depiction is the "yoni"/Vagina. I don't know how it started. If anyone knows, he may please make me enlightened on this issue.



"you see what you want to see, you hear what you want to hear" - the Rock Man

(Henry Neillson)

ZN