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Infinite Regress
29 January 2009, 12:58 AM
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/hindutva-moral-brigade-attacks-women-in-mangalore-pub/83648-3.html

It's obvious that any religion, when carried to an extreme, becomes as dangerous as the Taliban. What's the solution to this? Is it really possible to keep religion and do away with its violence and bigotry? Or, would that be impossible, since religion itself is born of bigotry?

I am asking this, so people can discuss. Please don't turn this into an us versus them or hindu vs muslim contest. Let's put our prejudices aside, and see what we can do.

The question for the day is: Has the time come to bid goodbye to religion? Has it outlived its purpose? Is religion becoming totally irrelevant and even a nuisance value in a technologically advanced world?

atanu
29 January 2009, 04:54 AM
The question for the day is: Has the time come to bid goodbye to religion? Has it outlived its purpose? Is religion becoming totally irrelevant and even a nuisance value in a technologically advanced world?

Namaste Infinite,

You cannot throw the baby with the bath water. There is a natural instinct in born beings to possess, to conquer, to dominate -- often by cruel means. True religion moderates such cruel instincts and furthers the good nature.

My answer is an emphatic NO to your above question of the day.:)

Infinite Regress
29 January 2009, 09:38 AM
Namaste Infinite,

You cannot throw the baby with the bath water. There is a natural instinct in born beings to possess, to conquer, to dominate -- often by cruel means. True religion moderates such cruel instincts and furthers the good nature.

My answer is an emphatic NO to your above question of the day.:)

Thanks, Atanu. But I had in mind organized religion. Do we need that at all, or is it better to simply restrict ourselves to studying veda, upanishads, and gita. Obviously, the thugs who attacked women at the pub couldn't have been scholars, take a wild guess they wouldn't even have turned one page of the gita. Don't you believe this is due to organized religion, that organized religion has diverted people's attention from study to irrelevant activities in the name of religion?

simex
29 January 2009, 09:54 AM
Religion need not be abandoned, but rather the attitude that truth has long been discovered, can be taken merely on authority, and belongs to a certain group of people. In my dealings with religious people of various backgrounds, I have come to a realization that religion does not serve the same purpose for all.

For many, religion is no more than another piece of their self/cultural identity. Some people are willing to fight and die for this alone, and removing religion from the picture would do little to quell their zeal. They would fight for dress style, or sculptures of kings, if it meant the same thing to them.

For others, the unknown is unbearable, and the fact that they live in the midst of a mystery larger than themselves demands an immediate and concise answer. These people will always fight to protect their world-view, whether it comes from scripture or is printed on the back of a box of crackers; because, to lose it would be to lose everything in their own self-narrative.

Lastly, there is the small minority of people who face the mystery head-on, and see religion merely as clues; as fingers pointing to a distant object. These people take all sources to be both valid and worthy of skepticism, regardless of cultural origins. When this attitude is adopted, what is there to fight for, besides the availability of clues to other seekers.

The real problem is not religion.

The separateness stemming from a strong sense of identification with the body and its story will not be removed along with religion. The ego will find other things to associate itself with, and subsequently defend.

The need for discrete and authoritative knowledge will not be removed along with religion. As long as people are looking for answers, others will supply it, no matter what the category label (i.e. religion, science, philosophy). And once supplied, the narrative will be built on the answer, like a house on a foundation. To lose the foundation is to lose the house, so it will be defended ferociously.

The problems that cause conflict and strife existed long before we codified religion. The root cause is primordial, luckily the solution (i.e. love) is equally fundamental. Conflict and destruction are inherent in the universe, and are the flip side of love and creation. What meaning would harmony have without dissonance? And how could new forms be created if the old were not dissolved?

As Nisargadatta so aptly points out:

"Was there ever a world without troubles? Your being as a person depends on violence to others. Your very body is a battlefield, full of the dead and dying. Existence implies violence."

Humans will always find a pretense for violence, religion or not.

TatTvamAsi
29 January 2009, 08:56 PM
Religion need not be abandoned, but rather the attitude that truth has long been discovered, can be taken merely on authority, and belongs to a certain group of people. In my dealings with religious people of various backgrounds, I have come to a realization that religion does not serve the same purpose for all.

For many, religion is no more than another piece of their self/cultural identity. Some people are willing to fight and die for this alone, and removing religion from the picture would do little to quell their zeal. They would fight for dress style, or sculptures of kings, if it meant the same thing to them.

For others, the unknown is unbearable, and the fact that they live in the midst of a mystery larger than themselves demands an immediate and concise answer. These people will always fight to protect their world-view, whether it comes from scripture or is printed on the back of a box of crackers; because, to lose it would be to lose everything in their own self-narrative.

Lastly, there is the small minority of people who face the mystery head-on, and see religion merely as clues; as fingers pointing to a distant object. These people take all sources to be both valid and worthy of skepticism, regardless of cultural origins. When this attitude is adopted, what is there to fight for, besides the availability of clues to other seekers.

The real problem is not religion.

The separateness stemming from a strong sense of identification with the body and its story will not be removed along with religion. The ego will find other things to associate itself with, and subsequently defend.

The need for discrete and authoritative knowledge will not be removed along with religion. As long as people are looking for answers, others will supply it, no matter what the category label (i.e. religion, science, philosophy). And once supplied, the narrative will be built on the answer, like a house on a foundation. To lose the foundation is to lose the house, so it will be defended ferociously.

The problems that cause conflict and strife existed long before we codified religion. The root cause is primordial, luckily the solution (i.e. love) is equally fundamental. Conflict and destruction are inherent in the universe, and are the flip side of love and creation. What meaning would harmony have without dissonance? And how could new forms be created if the old were not dissolved?

As Nisargadatta so aptly points out:

"Was there ever a world without troubles? Your being as a person depends on violence to others. Your very body is a battlefield, full of the dead and dying. Existence implies violence."

Humans will always find a pretense for violence, religion or not.

Fantastically put!

The main fact is that Hinduism is NOT an organized religion and that is why it is so misunderstood and slandered. I suppose with organization comes this kind of targeted violence and wasted energy. Self-enquiry and experience is so emphatically emphasized in Sanatana Dharma for this very reason. There is no free lunch!

This incident at the club seems so silly I cannot believe "Hindus" would do this. Then again, I think of my teacher's poster which read, "CONTROL YOURSELF, OR SOMEONE ELSE WILL!"

LOLOL.. these silly 'dancers' at the club must have had a real hangover the next day. haha..

atanu
29 January 2009, 11:07 PM
Thanks, Atanu. But I had in mind organized religion. Do we need that at all, or is it better to simply restrict ourselves to studying veda, upanishads, and gita. Obviously, the thugs who attacked women at the pub couldn't have been scholars, take a wild guess they wouldn't even have turned one page of the gita. Don't you believe this is due to organized religion, that organized religion has diverted people's attention from study to irrelevant activities in the name of religion?

Namaste Infinite,

Simex has given an exhaustive and excellent answer to which i cannot add anything. There was never a world without problems and it will always be so. Whether one passes a judgement here or not, organized groups, based on whatever ideology, will remain and clash against each other.

Our duty, as a Guru teaches, is to keep our own minds tranquil. That is worship. That is Sadhana.That is good.

Om