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Infinite Regress
03 February 2009, 12:19 AM
Westerners normally make movies showing Indians in a very poor light. Indians, in response, make movies showing westerners as heroes (yet to see an Indian movie where westerners are portrayed the way Indians are portrayed by them), that everything about the west is fine and dandy. Interestingly, many Indian movies have shown South Indians in a bad light. Also in one Bachan movie, they paint their faces black in a subtle attack on Africans.

What's the psychology behind the Indian response? They never seem to attack those who attack them (west in this case), but instead pick on those who've never meant any harm (africans and south indians).

reflections
03 February 2009, 03:49 AM
I watched 'Fashion' lately which showed dark life of fashion industry. The top model falls into all sorts of bad habits and ruins her life. Surprizingly she realized how fallen she is after spending night with an African man. She did not realize that while spending night with industry top shots etc. I felt that very racist. Why can't they show that she spent a night with a Caucasian man and realized how much fallen she is.

satay
03 February 2009, 09:19 AM
Namaskar,


that everything about the west is fine and dandy.

Isn't everything in the west fine and dandy? ;) Previously you said that Indians should adopt the western culture and lifestyle. :rolleyes:

BTW, I notice that in almost every bollywood movie, they include a scene of a church etc. I don't know why.

I almost have never seen a scene from a hindu temple in bollywood movies (at least the recent ones from 2000 onwards). Any clue why?

Also, does the work of some indian film businessmen give us the right to generalize the mentality of all indians? I always wonder about that.

Infinite Regress
03 February 2009, 10:51 AM
Also, does the work of some indian film businessmen give us the right to generalize the mentality of all indians? I always wonder about that.

Is that so? Let's see for ourselves.

You can observe this behavior in schools and colleges (this is my personal experience as well, getting to watch fellow Indian students fawn over exchange/visiting students and speak rudely to Africans), at airports, resorts, and the like (where Indians treat Indians with contempt, and give royal treatment to whites) in sports (Indian fans abused an aboriginal person, all the while fawning over white players), in politics (Indian politicians attack each other in the vilest terms, but act like little obedient kids in front of an unknown white diplomat), in films, in relationships (Indian parents are okay if you bring home a white girl, but suffer a nervous breakdown if you bring someone a little darker;)), in literature (most books, including booker winners do this), and so on and so forth.

Do you want me to go on, or do you see a pattern here? Let's stop denying the obvious, please.

satay
03 February 2009, 03:59 PM
namaskar,


Do you want me to go on, or do you see a pattern here? Let's stop denying the obvious, please.

Indians in general have a million problems just like people from rest of the world. Exposing those problems is not in alignment with the purpose of HDF. As such any threads or posts that are not in alignment with the purpose of the forum will eventually be deleted. I will be happy to permanently redirect you out of this forum and to other forums better suited for your personal agenda.

Having said that, do you have a solution in mind or do you just want to vent your anger about Indians?

Infinite Regress
03 February 2009, 11:05 PM
I will be happy to permanently redirect you out of this forum and to other forums better suited for your personal agenda.


You asked a question, I gave an answer, and because you don't like the answer, you want to ban me. Nice going, Taliban!



Having said that, do you have a solution in mind or do you just want to vent your anger about Indians?

That's why you post threads: to get to know what people think, to know their solutions and ideas, if any. But with a taliban moderator like you around, I don't see that happening. There aren't many people here anyway, it's a dying forum, and I see why.

satay
03 February 2009, 11:16 PM
Namaskar,


You asked a question, I gave an answer, and because you don't like the answer, you want to ban me. Nice going, Taliban!

That's why you post threads: to get to know what people think, to know their solutions and ideas, if any. But with a taliban moderator like you around, I don't see that happening. There aren't many people here anyway, it's a dying forum, and I see why.

You obviously cannot comprehend simple rules of the forum. This has nothing to do with Taliban, however, you seem to be impressed by them for some weird reason.

It was decided by senior members early on that we will keep the forum clean of garbage.

Because of posting this and other anti hindu/indian threads (against forum rule 1). I wish I had more time to waste on people who cannot comprehend simple rules but alas I don't.

Out you go. Please spread your junk elsewhere on the Internet.
Thanks,

saidevo
03 February 2009, 11:46 PM
Namaste Satay.



It was decided by senior members early on that we will keep the forum clean of garbage.

Because of posting this or other anti hindu/indian threads (against forum rule 1). I wish I had more time to waste on people who cannot comprehend simple rules but alas I don't.


It is evident that IR has in most of his posts has held a negative opinion about the Hindu culture and tradition, showing little empathy for the present situation of Hindus (which is the result of colonnial rule) or offering his suggestion as to a solution.

The trend of blaming and accusing the Hindus and their religion is on the increase in HDF. I think this is done by many of the Western Hindus, who declare Sanatana Dharma as their religion in their Public Profile but do not empathize or try to reason out the provisions and regulations of the religion. Perhaps this is due to the inferiority complex that their parent religion is not up to standards, they can't digest that Hinduism has all of those standards, so they seek to revile and demean it in subtle or open ways.

I would request you to insist the members, specially newly joining the Western Hindus that they state the name of their parent religion in the Public Profile (so their posts can be properly replied to), and also give a brief of why they abandoned it and took to Hinduism in their introductory post.

HDF is a Hindu Forum where Hindus want to discuss, debate and learn their religion with understanding and empathy and progress in their knowledge and spiritual practice. As you have rightly observed, we can't afford to fritter away our time with fruitless, insignificant discussions oriented only towards accusations.

satay
04 February 2009, 12:04 AM
Namaskar Saidevo,


Namaste Satay.



I don't disagree with your observation, however, in case of IR, he is a muslim from Tamil. Muslims forums are more suitable for his personal agenda thus he has been redirected out of HDF.

For anyone wondering about the stats of HDF, though the number of posting members remain on the low side, the readership is much higher with about 2500 visitors daily.

Tons of silent visitors from all over the globe including promient places like IIT, News sites from India and some very high profile companies visit HDF everyday all due to the postings of senior members like yourself.

Thanks,

saidevo
04 February 2009, 12:33 AM
Namaste Satay.



Tons of silent visitors from all over the globe including promient places like IIT, News sites from India and some very high profile companies visit HDF everyday all due to the postings of senior members like yourself.


I am glad about the knowledgeable daily visitors to HDF; I also thank you for your compliment. A large number of my postings, as I have declared time and again are by way of compilations from various sources, with a view to add to the knowledge repository in the HDFpuri. Where they are not compilations, my postings are mostly my personal views gathered from of reading, thinking and experience, since I don't have an intimate knowledge of our scriptures (though I am trying to improve it my own svAdhyAya).

ohmshivaya
04 February 2009, 08:20 AM
For anyone wondering about the stats of HDF, though the number of posting members remain on the low side, the readership is much higher with about 2500 visitors daily.



Namaste,

It's certainly not a dying forum. Yes, I am very sure there are countless individuals visiting the forum on regular basis, seeking in-depth information on sanatana dharma and following various discussions, even though many may not post messages themselves. Even those that do not post but read the various threads regularly need to be regarded also subscribers to HDF. So, by no means is HDF dying, nor even remotely on the death bed.

As for Infinite Regress's post above, I was on the verge of replying at length to his perpetual childish taunts and whines against India, Indians, HInduism, and Hindus, when Satay bade him goodbye, with suggestions to seek other venues for acting out his tantrums. In my message to IR, I was going to question the relevance and purpose of not only this post, but also his other posts, where he rants against Indians and Hindus at the drop of a hat. Every one his post seem worthless tirade against Hinduism, Hindus and Indians in general, with nothing constructive coming out of any of his posts.


...however, in case of IR, he is a muslim from Tamil. Muslims forums are more suitable for his personal agenda thus he has been redirected out of HDF.

I am not surprised to learn that he is not a hindu. Ahough I knew nothing about his personal background - since I haven't read ALL his posts, and don't know whether he has revealed his background in one of his posts - he was beginning to strike me as someone not only anti-hindu, but also anti-Indian. I concluded that he was not a HIndu, but also not an Indian. A muslim Tamil? Hm...perhaps a Tamil muslim from Sri Lanka.(?)

Nonetheless, I'm glad that such individuals are given a farewell by the forum. If a non-HIndu or non-Indian is genuinely interested in clarifying issues on Hinduism, Hindu culture, Indian history, and Indian society in general, it is worthwhile to make the effort to respond to these questions and clear any genuine misunderstandings or misinterprestations. But if someone is simply interested in lashing out at Indians and Hindus vindictively, for a sport, they not only waste everybody's time but also detract attention from the discussions that attempt to educate, inform and guide those genuinesly interested in HInduisn and Hindu culture.

My suggestion would be to delete this particular thread, as well as ALL IR's posts in other threads, and his record here wiped clean (there is I am sure nothing in any of his posts that is educational and informative about hinduism and hindu society; hence nothing worth retaining), so that visitors to the forum, who go through various threads, are not unnecessarily distracted by his unconstructive comments and baseless rants that pop up here and there. Merely a suggestion.

atanu
04 February 2009, 07:44 PM
Friends,

Let views and opinions clash and bring out the wisdom. I feel that posts/posters contributing with gibberish, illogic, vulgarity and pointed personal attacks should be blocked. Sanatana Dharma is truly unique that here Manu has his followers, Soma has his own, and even Kubera, Matsya, Varaha, Sarpa have their own.

In this thread, there was an attack personally on the moderator. On the other hand, critical views on India and Hindu Dharma, as of IR, should however be welcome (again to the limits defined above in blue fonts) so that those can be countered with logic and civily -- for which Sanatana Dharma is revered among the wise everywhere.

My personal view.:)

Om

satay
05 February 2009, 08:57 AM
Hello and namaskar Atanu,


In this thread, there was an attack personally on the moderator. On the other hand, critical views on India and Hindu Dharma, as of IR, should however be welcome (again to the limits defined above in blue fonts) so that those can be countered with logic and civily -- for which Sanatana Dharma is revered among the wise everywhere.

My personal view.:)

Om

First, I would like to clearly state that it is not for the reason that I was personally attacked that IR is out. As a mod, I expect those personal attacks and rather have personal attacks on me instead of on other members.

I appreciate your opinion but disagree with it somewhat. This HDF is for "Positive presentation" of Sanatana Dharma. Critical views are welcomed but not in the light of 'hostility' or to demean India, Indians, Hindus or Sanatana Dharma.

I feel that many forums and lists (some hindu) on the net allow this 'demeaning', critical views and thus those who wish to take part in such acts can happily go to other forums.

This forum is a place for hindus where hindus can visit without having to worry about dealing with demeaning, hostile critical views.

I will shamelessly and without regret, remove, redirect, ban anyone from this forum that

a) breaks the forum rules (which are clearly stated and voluntarily accepted by each subscribing member)

b) has demeaning, hostile, critical views that are not in alignment with the purpose of the forum.

If such acts make me look like a tyrant, so be it.

Thanks,

atanu
05 February 2009, 12:10 PM
Hello and namaskar Atanu,
I appreciate your opinion but disagree with it somewhat.

Namaste Satay,

I appreciate and honour your role and dedication and have faith in your discretion.

However, a chance to expose beliefs of those who come attacking precepts of Hindu Dharma to be unsustainable in the face of logical beauty and strength of Sanatana Dharma precepts should not be missed. For this very reason of its effectiveness, a very large section of Brihadarayanaka Upanishad is built on intense debates.

There is another angle. For example, 10 years back I had lot of issues with Dharma as such. It would have helped at that time, if a compassionate mentor had guided me. Some genuine mistaken fellows may benefit from logical discussions.

This does not mean that I am questioning you. I love and care HDF puri as much you do and know that you do your role beautifully. My feedback is intended (as per my understanding) to encourage scripture based logical discussions to further the knowledge of Vedanta. And logical discussions require some counter points.

Regards

Om

satay
05 February 2009, 03:31 PM
Namaskar Atanu,


My feedback is intended (as per my understanding) to encourage scripture based logical discussions to further the knowledge of Vedanta. And logical discussions require some counter points.

Regards

Om

Yes, I have thought about creating a sub forum for 'scripture based' debates.

I think we are on the same page. :)

atanu
05 February 2009, 10:30 PM
Namaskar Atanu,
Yes, I have thought about creating a sub forum for 'scripture based' debates.

I think we are on the same page. :)

Surely. Thanks.

sm78
06 February 2009, 01:52 AM
BTW, I notice that in almost every bollywood movie, they include a scene of a church etc. I don't know why.

I too was wondering, why? Also many stars seem to hang big cross from their neck these days, wondering why?

But then the courtesans will always try to impress her majesty, and the reason could be the Italian govt at the Helm.

satay
06 February 2009, 04:28 PM
Hello Singhi,


I too was wondering, why? Also many stars seem to hang big cross from their neck these days, wondering why?

But then the courtesans will always try to impress her majesty, and the reason could be the Italian govt at the Helm.

It might have somethig to do with the "funding" that comes towards a movie maker. I read that the source of funding is usually a christian missionary organization. I can't find the reference though...maybe I heard it on tv. I know it was about a movie of Subhash Ghai.

TatTvamAsi
06 February 2009, 07:45 PM
Namaste Satay/Atanu,

I completely agree with your posts.

In fact, without proper debate, the perennial quest of self-enquiry would dissipate.

However, as Satay has clearly pointed out, this 'debate' should be philosophical and Scriptural, not societal as modern Indian society hardly reflects what it was in the days of yore.

Even if sticky topics are brought up, bringing them up with politeness, courtesy, and respect is of utmost importance. Having this condescending approach and lambasting India, her culture & religion should not be allowed. Allowing such things is cowardice! In fact, this is analogous to modern Indian society where the common Hindu/Indian puts up with constant degradation and denigration by foreigners, muslims, christians, communists, and the foreign-funded media and does not retaliate appropriately. This meekness is taken advantage of and more people start to denigrate Sanatana Dharma more often!

Best.

Hello and namaskar Atanu,



First, I would like to clearly state that it is not for the reason that I was personally attacked that IR is out. As a mod, I expect those personal attacks and rather have personal attacks on me instead of on other members.

I appreciate your opinion but disagree with it somewhat. This HDF is for "Positive presentation" of Sanatana Dharma. Critical views are welcomed but not in the light of 'hostility' or to demean India, Indians, Hindus or Sanatana Dharma.

I feel that many forums and lists (some hindu) on the net allow this 'demeaning', critical views and thus those who wish to take part in such acts can happily go to other forums.

This forum is a place for hindus where hindus can visit without having to worry about dealing with demeaning, hostile critical views.

I will shamelessly and without regret, remove, redirect, ban anyone from this forum that

a) breaks the forum rules (which are clearly stated and voluntarily accepted by each subscribing member)

b) has demeaning, hostile, critical views that are not in alignment with the purpose of the forum.

If such acts make me look like a tyrant, so be it.

Thanks,

Bhaskara Narasimhaiah
18 February 2009, 03:53 AM
Coming to the central issue,
why some skin forms look appealing and some other forms not?

This is the work of the value system residing in our minds.
Man always strives to become what appears to him superior, powerful, influential and wealthy. Incidently not only in India, in sevral other parts of the world, through their colonial rule, the Europeans came to occupy this seat of superiority, power, influence and wealth. Every one under their rule wanted to be like them in every aspect (though impossible on certain counts) of their personality, their language, their literature, their culture, their dress etc., In the process, that became a superior value in the minds of all those under them. This is the reason we Indians feel, speaking English is symbol of Power, Knowledge and afluence. We don't perceive or feel English is just another language on earth; there are unrealistic attributes to it; and we unconsciously practice it.

Similarly this is true with European dress, the suit. We Indians in our hot climate wear every bit of it from banian, shirt, waist coat and over coat on a hot summer after noon and and beam attracive. You must pity poor lawers for,they sholud wear a black over coat all the seasons in a year.

Now, this value system in our minds quietly works and gives us an impression( an illussion truly) that white skin (of the Europeans )is superior, therefore beautiful. When some forms are superior and beautiful, the opposite or non conforming forms surely and logically appear ugly.

Now you know what is truly beautiful and what is not!
beauty or ugly is not an attribute of an object, but view of the mind.
Poor fellows who are trapped in this illussion, see beauty and ugly separately in these formats.

What is needed and useful, may we say, Beautiful;
and what is not needed and harmful is Ugly.

Eastern Mind
18 February 2009, 06:15 PM
Ahhh.. the suit Here in the west 'Suits' is becoming a synonym for 'people who wear suits' and there is a certain disrespect shown them. I am a retired teacher and fortunately I rarely wore one. (I find the tie especially to be just so darn uncomfortable.) The last time I felt obliged was at my own father's funeral. Hopefully, never again. I find for the Indians at the temples the suit seems more common amongst the North Indians. At my little South Indian style temple its more common to see jeans and tardy dress than suits. Personally I prefer veshti, and try to always where it except on really cold days. I'm looking forward to observing the 'racism' both ways when I go to India soon. Being white, Im sure some will see me with more respect, and otheres with less, just like it is here. There is certainly a continuing shift where east takes on west, and west takes on east. Perhaps it is little more than 'the grass is greener onthe other side of the fence' syndrome.but personally I think its deeper than that. Aum Namasivaya

devotee
19 February 2009, 07:35 AM
Namaste,

What is superior ... white complexion or black ? :confused:

Does colors really exist ? What is the color of an electromagnetic wave ? None ! Would the 'color' of a wave change if the wavelength of it changes ? What rubbish !!

But that is what we 'see', isn't it ? There is really no color but we still see colors ... no, no, we don't only see those colors but also have biases towards them ... some are superior to the others ! That is Maya ! The great illusion !! It is all in our mind.

OM