Moderation

[satay]

To all members,

As you all know that I am the only moderator right now on these boards. I chose to do this since I want to first find out how to deal with all different matters myself. I will then create this method of dealing with all types of matters on this forum into a policy and will invite qualified members of the board to moderate and to implement that policy in their moderation activities.

I have had enough of some members here undermining mine and other members' intelligence here by hiding behind several ids, derailing threads and spreading their own agendas. I am sick of this type of pathetic and childish behaviour of the so called hindu members of this forum. Most I have already banned, others I am keeping an eye on and if they don't read between the lines of this message they will be let go as well. You know who you are and I will not insult you by spelling out your names.

I am not interested in thousands of people coming here just for the sake of bashing other religions and promoting their own agendas. If I notice this once more here, there will be no questions asked and I will see that you are redirected to the appropriate forums elsewhere on the internet and away from HDF.

If we have ten members on the board that will adhere to the site rules and share my vision of 'Positive presentation of Dharma' on this site then I will think that I have accomplished the goal that originally sarabhanga, BYS and I shared. I am satisfied with even 5 such members.

There will be no more illogical, pointless debates on this site putting down advaita, dvaita or VA. There will be no more ‘holier than thou’ attitudes and there will be no more, “I am insulting you because I am defending dharma.” There will be no more ‘chasing advaitins or vice versa’ from thread to thread asking the same questions and repeating yourself like an idiot.

If in a discussion, you disagree with someone control your emotions, stop replying to them, and leave them to bhagwan. There is no point in going in endless pages and pages of posts that say nothing or keep saying the same thing or worse yet, contradict your previous posts.

I am applying the no more 'nonsense' approach here as I am tired of all this childish behaviour and personally, I don't have time to troubleshoot people's emotional or psychological problems and neither am I qualified to do so.

Once again, this site is for ‘positive presentation of Dharma’. That’s it! Any member who does not share this vision with me, here is your chance to leave the forum gracefully and with your ego intact. If you choose to stay, I will assume that you accept this vision of the forum and will support me in my efforts to make this vision a reality. If your actions on the board are not in line with this vision then I will redirect you to other forums.

With respect,

[satay]

Namaste all,

Dattaswami has been banned from HDF. The reasons are as follows:

-I consider mass posting on HDF as spam; spam is not allowed on HDF

-HDF is for positive presentation of hindu dharma as such insulting dharmic scholars be they from advaita school or others is not allowed here

I have advised dattaswami and will post a link to his site in our 'Dharma related sites' forum. If anyone is interested in learning more about him please visit that site.

Let's keep our forum clean and focused.

Thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

[saidevo]

Namaste Satay.

I understand your decision. Whoever or Whatever is Datta Swami he cannot revile other Hindu darshanas, saints and sages. We have enough of non-Hindus and Hindu atheists doing that. I think he quotes Vedas and Gita selectively to voice his points. He seems to have regard for only Sankara among the Advaitic sages, and absolutely little regard for today's order of dasanamis established by Sankara.

His ideas might be revolutionary like those of Dayananda Sarasvati of the Arya Samaj, good and might even be necessary, but they can't be exclusively imposed, for that would be like the task of the missioneries.

His theory of mula-maya, maha-maya and mere-maya and God being beyond all these is fine, but there seem to be some holes. For example, he says sound cannot travel in vacuum as per science, but he does not consider that the pravana mantra Aum itself is sound, the nadha brahman that is the first tool of creation!

He believes that God can incarnate in humans but not reside in temples or murtis. If it is so, there would be no Agama in Hinduism and no bhakti movement at all! It is the bhakti that is fostering our religion and culture today in the Kali Yuga. Not just the bhakti to a human incarnation or an order of an institution, but the bhakti expressed in our temples, in our puja rooms and to the murtis in our hearts. If there is no idol or portrait, can anyone have a mental idea of our Gods and the Trinity in male and female form?

He talks about the total dissolution of a soul into nothing if it aspires for an Advaitic state. This is worse than the Christian philosphy. What is this nothing he talks of? There is no nothing in the universe or beyond. This universe did not emerge out of nothing, as Science would have us believe. He says that God resides as hiranya garbha in the inert energy which is the root of creation, so he admits that God does exist in all his creation, which is an Advaitic truth (tatvam asi and aham brahmasmi). If Advaita says that every human being is God, it is not in the sense of replacing God and taking over His functions but in the sense of universality. To say 'I am God' is somewhat like saying 'I am an Indian' or 'I am an American'--not as a ruler of my country but to indicate that the country is in me. I would say this whatever are my other affiliations.

The original Dattacharya reverred everything in the universe as his guru, though he knew he was a manifestation of the Trinity in toto. This human incarnation of Dattacharya seems to be a far cry from the original.

[atanu]

Namaste Satay.

------ This human incarnation of Dattacharya seems to be a far cry from the original.

Namaste Satay and Saidevo ji,

Thanks for keeping our meeting place nice and clean. Though I felt that specimens could be kept in "Jokes" category.

Nice business like decision.

[satay]

namaste owners of HDF!

I have deleted all the threads and posts of vishal. Shri Yajvan advised that today i.e. Sat. is a good day to do cleaning and that we start the new week with fresh minds.

All threads are physically removed except one. The thread titled God is not statue has been only soft deleted meaning that you do not see it in the forum yet I can recover it if we wanted to. Since a number of members replied to that thread I kept it like that just in case someone wanted it back.

Let's start fresh tomorrow.

Thank you all for your patience.

[Ganeshprasad]

Jai Ganesh

Pranam Satay ji
It is good to see back off this guy; not because he has his views but he can not offend everyone and call those who engage in murti puja as ignorant.
Murti puja is central to our Hindu Dharma most of us have a little shrine at our home and then we have this wonderful big Mandir where elaborate puja and ceremony take place, people walk or take long journey to visit many very famous tirth and mandirs, to many it brings fulfillment in their life, it enhances their spiritual life, having met different people and experienced different cultures.
We are many times ridiculed and laughed at for all our idol worship yes that is what they call us idol worshipers
To counter this argument, we need to be able to defend ourself, if there are positive ideas and scripture evidence we need to be able to express this, so if you like you may keep this open or perhaps start a new thread.

Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

namaste Ganesh!

That thread is now recovered.

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaste all,

With regret I had to ban our 'hindu' friend maruti for two weeks, hopefully, he/she will learn the rules of this site during these two weeks.

May Lord Shiva shower his grace on him.

We, the members of HDF will pray to Bhagwan for you maruti.

See you soon...

ps: with this, I will now get off my 'soapbox' of which, I suspect, you have all had enough for now... :)

[satay]

Admin note
namaskar,

Please note that 'willie' has been banned from HDF. The decision to ban him was not hard at all, I had only been waiting so long because it was suggested by other members here that 'differences' should be allowed to flourish. However, continous abuse of the hindu way of living, its sastras, its gurus is beyond healthy differences and flourishment and against HDF purpose of positive presentation of Hindu Dharma.

As hindus we are the first ones to allow differences to flourish and tolerate differences yet it is my opinion and understanding that tolerating abuse and nonsense in the name of 'ahimsa' and 'tolerance' is against Dharma of all varnas.

This is the first of three that are going to be banned shortly.

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaskar,

after much contemplation I have soft deleted several threads and posts. I apologize to all members who invested their time and energy in those posts that were deleted. These threads are under review and may come back to life after I have gone through them in detail.

The main reason for this action is that the quality of HDF posts have gone down in the past few days. Some of the controversial threads have caused much emotions among members and thus resulted in personal insults which degraded the overall quality of the forum.

I am reminded of this decision that some of us members took in the past... http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2280 that we will not sacrifice quality in HDFPuri. That HDF is different than other forums in that we offer quality posts and members are considerate of each other.

With respect to forum rules, it seems that forum rules are not clear to many members and thus they keep breaking them without any regard. Thus I will be rewriting the rules more clearly and more specifically.

HDF is for the positive presentation of Hindu Dharma, in it is implied positive presentation of India, Indians, hindus and the indian culture in general. Any posts against the hindu dharma, india, indians, hindus and indian culture are not acceptable on this forum. As an Indian I see no difference in hindu dharma and indian culture; they are intermixed. Those members who disagree with this rule or for some reason can not understand it due to language or other difficulties are always free to redirect themselves out of the forum.

I hope that you will all join me to keep the quality of the posts a top priority.

Thank you.

[devotee]

Namaste Satay,

You are right. For last a few days there were meaningless discussions going on here.

However, though some threads were correctly deleted, I think it was better to close some of them & not delete them fully. Just a suggestion.

OM

[satay]

namaskar devotee,

The threads are only soft deleted i.e. I can recover them when I want. I will go through them and try to salvage the best posts. However I took them off because I don't want search spiders indexing those pages.

Thanks,

[ohmshivaya]

namaskar devotee,

The threads are only soft deleted i.e. I can recover them when I want. I will go through them and try to salvage the best posts. However I took them off because I don't want search spiders indexing those pages.

Thanks,

Namaste,

I'm just popping in my suggestion also, even though you've have made it quite clear what you intend to do.

It would be good if some of the posts can be retrieved, because people do take the time to respond to the queries or posts of others, even if the initial queries or posts are anti-hindu rants. It is a little discouraging for someone to find their posts deleted, after one has taken time to clarify or provide information in them. I can imagine the one-liners, or simple posts asking for clarification, being deleted in the process, but not those posts that serve to educate many that have misconceptions, or erroneous views, about hinduism, hindu worship practices, Indian culture and history.

The anti-hindu posts can be deleted, but let the rejoinders to many of these posts remain. Otherwise, there is really no point in people bothering to spend time, responding to people's views (as erroneous/misguided/ anti-hindu, as these views may be), or trying to educate others, when a couple of days later, these posts are removed, along with the offensive messages.

One way possibly to counteract the problem of people posting anti-hindu messages in Hindu forums is to immediately delete these offensive posts soon as they appear, after a warning is given, before series of responses to these attacks are posted. I can understand that sometimes these messages are cloaked as ''genuine'' questions on Hinduism, before their true intent is made known. But others are just blantantly, and obviously, anti-hindu (for example, some members openly recommending/advocating christianity for Indian society, criticising or mocking Indians openly, and deriding hindu society or worship practices at every opportunity) that it is obvious that their true intent is deliberate provocation and blatantly anti-hindu.

Hopefully, even if you delete these offending posts or at least the offending lines, you'll be able to retain the responses to these posts.

[satay]

namaskar ohm,

Yes, I agree with this and I was already in the process of doing this.

Thanks,


Namaste,

I'm just popping in my suggestion also, even though you've have made it quite clear what you intend to do.

It would be good if some of the posts can be retrieved, because people do take the time to respond to the queries or posts of others, even if the initial queries or posts are anti-hindu rants.

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaskar all members,

Please be careful of what you post in public forums including HDF. Just a reminder.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2217063/google-handing-user-information

[dhruva023]

Admin Note

Namaskar all members,

Please be careful of what you post in public forums including HDF. Just a reminder.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2217063/google-handing-user-information

Is there any way i can protest this?

[ohmshivaya]

Is there any way i can protest this?

Just finished posting my comments in that website. Don't know whether or not they will put it up. Google's behavior is increasingly sickening. This big lard of corporate greed is beginning to annoy many. Just because of its hypocrisy and double standard, a 22 year old boy (just a kid, in my view) is languishing in India's prison.

[satay]

namaste,


Just finished posting my comments in that website. Don't know whether or not they will put it up. Google's behavior is increasingly sickening. This big lard of corporate greed is beginning to annoy many. Just because of its hypocrisy and double standard, a 22 year old boy (just a kid, in my view) is languishing in India's prison.

I had to edit your post not becuase I care about any political figure in India but because I care about the members of HDF and don't want anyone to get in any trouble.

Thanks,

[Eastern Mind]

Satay: This is just another 'thank you'. Please, people don't make accusations towards me for praising the moderator for my own needs. if I disagree with Satay, I'd say it. For the first time the other day I had the opportunity to read this whole thread. The first post sort of tells it all. It seems that some things sort of go on forever. I congratulate you for having the persistence to continue. As a matter of record, I would have less patience than you do for some of the comments in here. It is like what I used to teach student athletes about the referee in sports. Just remember, we wouldn't be playing at all if it were not for the ref. And in PE classes students took turns being the refs, so they had a feeling for the trouble and difficulty it can sometimes be.

Nandri (Could someone tell me 'thank you' in Sanskrit, if it exists.)

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam EM ji


: Nandri (Could someone tell me 'thank you' in Sanskrit, if it exists.)

Aum Namasivaya

let me try
धन्यवादdhanyavaada (http://www.spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinput=dhanyavaada&direction=SE&script=HK&link=yes)

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

Ganeshprasad:

dhanyavaada for this.. shall try to remember..no guarantees, I'm an old man.

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

Namaskar,

I have noticed lately that some posts on HDF are where a member either wants to vent or wants to complain about a philosophy, a world view or another religion. Though in the past, I have allowed this type of venting on HDF, please note that simply making anti muslim or anti <other religion> posts are against the purpose of HDF, especially when there is no member from the other religion to defend the posts.

If you have a particular agenda against muslims or other non-hindus, I can easily redirect you to other forums on the net that are better suited.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Enjoy the discussions!

[Eastern Mind]

Ganeshprasad:

dhanyavaada for this.. shall try to remember..no guarantees, I'm an old man.

Aum Namasivaya

As I do not know the meaning of dhanyavaada, Satay, did you edit this for me? If not, then someone is posting or editing under my name? Can you let me know. Thanks.
Aum Shanthi

[saidevo]

namaste Satay.

I am surprised at your abrupt and arbritary statement that members "simply making anti muslim or anti <other religion> posts" will be banned in HDF. Although we have a forum on the Abrahamic Religions, HDF as I see it, is a Hindu forum of Hindus by Hindus and for Hindus. We can't expect any Muslim and Christian member to persist here to defend Hindu views against a western religion and explain things in a universal way. So I think banning Hindu members for posting their views of the western religions would be an extreme, unnecessary and unwise step. Instead, you can have more moderators who are well versed with Hinduism and the western religions and edit any posts that go to the extreme, simply to provoke and spread hatred.

I completely agree with the views expressed by HK. As she says, anti-Hindu propaganda takes different forms and guises on the Net and in the real world. As act of our dharma-rakShanam, we need to deal with it in HDF. For example, if I come across a news item stating that the Christians distributed printed pamphlets denigrating Hindu gods, I would certainly post it here and pit it against the morality of Jesus Christ and other Christian divine personage that I find questioned, not (only) by Hindu scholars, but by their own Christian scholars and researchers. There is always a difference between posts that delibrately provoke and spread hatred (and such posts are few and far between in HDF compared to some Muslim or Christian forums) and posts that are reactive or even proactive in the task of safeguarding our dharma.

I hope you give due thought to these points. Let us always reserve our right to criticize and expose the Abrahamic religions, specially in these times when inimical religious (and political) forces surround the Hindu dharma wherever it is practised, and try their worst to weaken the unity of Hindus and destroy our Vedic religion.

HDF is probably the most active Hindu Forum on the Net; there is nothing wrong for it to have two faces: the face of Brahman at the core and that of the kShatriya--warrior for our foes. God brahmA has four faces, all dharmic; the asura rAvaNa had ten faces, all adharmic; in this Kali Yuga, every Hindu needs to have two faces: one turned towards his Self and the other towards the practical reality of the world around him.

[atanu]

As I do not know the meaning of dhanyavaada, Satay, did you edit this for me? If not, then someone is posting or editing under my name? Can you let me know. Thanks.
Aum Shanthi

EM: Well. You also said: shall try to remember..no guarantees, I'm an old man.:confused: Meaning of 'Thank You' was told to you by Ganeshprasadji. You are not that old.

Om Namah Shivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

Namaste Saidevo/Harjas Kaur,

I completely agree with you.

I am pretty stunned to see Satay's post.

I thought this might be one of the very few places online where a Hindu may express his feelings/thoughts clearly and freely.

Even sites like YouTube are funded/moderated by muslim scum who post so many anti-Hindu videos but many videos showing the atrocities muslims have committed or are committing get deleted!

If HDF becomes one of those politically correct forums, it will be the end of free thought; the defining factor of Hinduism.

I urge Satay to reconsider his drastic decision.

Namaskar.


namaste Satay.

I am surprised at your abrupt and arbritary statement that members "simply making anti muslim or anti <other religion> posts" will be banned in HDF. Although we have a forum on the Abrahamic Religions, HDF as I see it, is a Hindu forum of Hindus by Hindus and for Hindus. We can't expect any Muslim and Christian member to persist here to defend Hindu views against a western religion and explain things in a universal way. So I think banning Hindu members for posting their views of the western religions would be an extreme, unnecessary and unwise step. Instead, you can have more moderators who are well versed with Hinduism and the western religions and edit any posts that go to the extreme, simply to provoke and spread hatred.

I completely agree with the views expressed by HK. As she says, anti-Hindu propaganda takes different forms and guises on the Net and in the real world. As act of our dharma-rakShanam, we need to deal with it in HDF. For example, if I come across a news item stating that the Christians distributed printed pamphlets denigrating Hindu gods, I would certainly post it here and pit it against the morality of Jesus Christ and other Christian divine personage that I find questioned, not (only) by Hindu scholars, but by their own Christian scholars and researchers. There is always a difference between posts that delibrately provoke and spread hatred (and such posts are few and far between in HDF compared to some Muslim or Christian forums) and posts that are reactive or even proactive in the task of safeguarding our dharma.

I hope you give due thought to these points. Let us always reserve our right to criticize and expose the Abrahamic religions, specially in these times when inimical religious (and political) forces surround the Hindu dharma wherever it is practised, and try their worst to weaken the unity of Hindus and destroy our Vedic religion.

HDF is probably the most active Hindu Forum on the Net; there is nothing wrong for it to have two faces: the face of Brahman at the core and that of the kShatriya--warrior for our foes. God brahmA has four faces, all dharmic; the asura rAvaNa had ten faces, all adharmic; in this Kali Yuga, every Hindu needs to have two faces: one turned towards his Self and the other towards the practical reality of the world around him.

[devotee]

Namaste Satay,



I have noticed lately that some posts on HDF are where a member either wants to vent or wants to complain about a philosophy, a world view or another religion. Though in the past, I have allowed this type of venting on HDF, please note that simply making anti muslim or anti <other religion> posts are against the purpose of HDF, especially when there is no member from the other religion to defend the posts.

I agree with you. It is better we devote our time on something constructive.


If you have a particular agenda against muslims or other non-hindus, I can easily redirect you to other forums on the net that are better suited.

This will be too harsh & unnecessary. A gentle reminder has worked all along & that policy can continue.

OM

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam all:

In my opinion, there is a huge difference between saying , "I disagree with the Muslim viewpoint on this." and saying, "All Muslims are pigs." Devotee and I agree, (this time) .

One is a polite intro to start a friendly discussion. The second is just downright rude. I believe Satay wishes we were all just more polite about it.

God Siva is Love. Krishna loves all humanity, and all things. At times we may not be able to hold onto this mountaintop perspective, but it doesn't mean we need to get sarcastic, condescending, angry, and rude.

This is not to say we welcome the missionaries with open arms. But I'm not letting criminally minded or drunken Hindus into my house either. But must we be so rude that we fire up the emotions of the other side?

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Satay ji


Namaskar,

I have noticed lately that some posts on HDF are where a member either wants to vent or wants to complain about a philosophy, a world view or another religion. Though in the past, I have allowed this type of venting on HDF, please note that simply making anti muslim or anti <other religion> posts are against the purpose of HDF, especially when there is no member from the other religion to defend the posts.

If you have a particular agenda against muslims or other non-hindus, I can easily redirect you to other forums on the net that are better suited.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Enjoy the discussions!

I see there is a lot of strong feelings expressed here by members.
　
　
I agree we have to present Hindu Dharma in positive manner, in a peaceful way.

Having said that, i think we would be failing in our duty to Dharma, if we do not wise up and be vigilant in our approach to external forces that have design on our existence as a Hindu.

we should not dwell in the past for ever, forgiveness is a great virtue, yet we should never forget the lessons learnt from the past.

Here in Britain they have a remembrance day, just that they don’t forget, the world wars. No one accuse them of Nazi phobia.

History has a nasty habit of repeating it self if we do not remind our self of the pain that our ancestors had to endure. We have to learn from history and not put our head in sand hoping that there is no problem, because the problem has not gone away that is the tragedy.


Jai Shree Krishna

[Ekanta]

simply making anti muslim or anti <other religion> posts are against the purpose of HDF.
Sounds fair. But we must be allowed to discuss interpretations right? How else are we to separate right from wrong?



In my opinion, there is a huge difference between saying , "I disagree with the Muslim viewpoint on this." and saying, "All Muslims are pigs."
To me this is kind of obvious. Who are we insulting in the end? Is it not the indweller in all?


"satyam bruyat priyam bruyat na bruyat satyam-apriyam.
priyam cha nanrtam bruyat esha dharma sanatanah"
"One should speak the truth, which is pleasing, not the truth which is unpleasing.
One must not speak an untruth which is pleasing. This is the sanatana dharma." [Manu Smriti 4.138]

[satay]

Namaskar,

I am surprised at the reaction my post has generated. It is clear that I didn’t communicate what I wanted to say, effectively.

Please note that the main purpose of HDF is ‘positive presentation of Hindu Dharma.’ This, I think should be clear to all members. Everything else on HDF follows out of this main principle.

As you all know, we have in the past and will in the future have ‘discussions’ with other members that are of other religions. There are specific dedicated sections for this purpose on HDF.

It is also a fact that Hindus today need to stand up to the external and internal adharmic forces. There is no denying of this fact. Standing up to adharmic propaganda is allowed on HDF.

That said, what is not in alignment with the main principle of HDF is slamming other religions or worldviews just for the sake of slamming. I think that you will all agree that if we argue against a worldview or religion that it would be better if there is actually someone there to counter or defend the arguments.

If a member is posting anti posts for no rhyme or reason and when there is no one from the other side to counter it, then in my opinion, the member is just using HDF for their personal venting, personal agendas etc.

In conclusion, the purpose of HDF is ‘positive presentation of Hinduism.’ Our (Hindus) nature and culture is to always defend and fight for dharma. Yet, it is not and should not be the responsibility of HDF members to expose ills of or to attack adharmic forces. If a member personally feels that it is their responsibility to do that, then HDF is not the right platform for you.

Hopefully, what I wrote here makes some sense.

[satay]

sat sri akal,



So you are a liar.

Harjas, my previous post was not meant for you. It was meant in general after I saw several anti muslim posts from a new member. Eastern Mind knows what I am talking about becasue he responded to one of his posts. I deleted the member's posts that's why the confusion.

All the rules of HDF apply to ALL the members, including you. So calling other people liars etc. are a not allowed. It is considered flaming.

Now, if you other members are doing the same to you, i.e. engaging in personal attacks, the right course of action is to 'report that post' instead of replying in a tit for tat manner.

Please PM me, if you have any questios about the rules of HDF.

Thanks,

[Eastern Mind]

Eastern Mind knows what I am talking about becasue he responded to one of his posts.

I do? Don't know who or what you're referring to. PM me about it if you want to. I'm always so confused anyway.

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

Namaskar HK,

I know you have reported a couple of posts since yesterday and sent me 11 PMs today. Please be patient. As much as I would like to be fast in responding to HDF matters, most of the time life gets in the way.

I read your last PM and I repsect your decision.

Thanks for visiting.

[satay]

namaskar,


I do? Don't know who or what you're referring to. PM me about it if you want to. I'm always so confused anyway.

Aum Namasivaya

It was the post of Shaan in the Islam section that you replied to.

[Harjas Kaur]

You do nindya of me Satay Ji. I made no personal attacks. I only pointed out the times Atanu Ji has called me demonic and said Sikhs were Muslims and not even Hindus. That is not an attack whatsoever. It is the truth. And then I told him if he hits the hornets nest to expect stings, because anyone who so insults will create a negative response. And whole reason of posting that tuuk of Gurbani was to show that no Muslim would call Lord Krishna as the God. Why do you defend always these people provocation or attacks on me personally, and if I say something you claim I am attacking. This is the second time you have done so. You deleted Atanu ji's words before and then accused that I was flaming HIM! Imagine! If he want's people to be nicer to him, he should look 1. how he himself is treating, and 2. what inflammatory things he is saying.

Kindly explain how this is attacking?

[satay]

sat sri akal harjas,


You do nindya of me Satay Ji. I made no personal attacks. Kindly explain how this is attacking?

No, I did not do ninda, neither of you nor of any other member. Personal attacks are against the rules of the forum. If you see any member making personal attacks on you please report those posts instead of engaging into attacks yourself and thus degrading the quality of posts on HDF.

I believe that personal attacks are not necessary to prove one's point. If another member has done that to you, immediately report those posts and take no further action on that thread until I have adressed that reported post.

Thank you.

[Harjas Kaur]

If you say I am flaming or attacking, and you have accused me of both still printed here on hdf, and I am only pointing out how someone else has provoked, that is to make me look bad and not even address the problem which is the provocation. All you do is erase my words time after time, defending, not only those original provocations, but blaming me as the cause.

The comments calling me demonic on the Gandhi thread are still there. You did not delete them as a flame, but perhaps found them "interesting contributions." Is my referring to those comments still posted here on HDF some kind of attack to be deleted? But the comments are still here, and I have sent you protests and I have been deleted now a few times telling you about it. All you do is erase my protest and protect the inflammatory words. Why do you do this? Is this what you call fairness? I have already tried talking to you in PM's. But you just ignore. Your accusation of me flaming Atanu is still there for making the very same protest against his calling me as demonic and making other personal attacks re: the Gandhi thread. Yet you have erased his words which were provocation against Sikh religion. Why did he make those comments on the moderation thread? To provoke me and for no other reason.

We are discussing UNIVERSALISM, that all religions are exactly the SAME. Yet when Atanu alleges the Koran is THE SAME as the Vedas, as Sruti, and I point out hypocrisy in Atanu claiming Sikhs are a kind of Muslim but NOT Hindu. You see the validity of my point? And since those are ALL comments made here on HDF and some comments still existing, why are you negating my pointing that out as some kind of personal attack?

Is it not a personal attack that comments calling me as demonic are still on HDF? Now accusing me of flaming and attacking without that context is a nindya. You speak falsely of me while protecting the real attacks. And this I continue to protest. A protest AGAINST flame (demonic) and attacks (calling Sikhs as Muslims) is not the actual flame or attack. So please, don't make a point to slander me under my own writings where you have deleted and accuse me of such, when you erase my words which can no longer defend themselves. You have a responsibility on a Dharma forum not to make false accusations which highlight blame of another as you are doing with me, and all in defense of what? ATTACKS on me which I have protested.

Please explain what is the attack or flame I made on Atanu personally simply to cite what he said in his own words.

[satay]

Namaste Harjus,

Do you have any feedback on how to improve the forum? It is being discussed here http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=37239#post37239

Thanks,

[satay]

The comments calling me demonic on the Gandhi thread are still there. You did not delete them as a flame, but perhaps found them "interesting contributions."


Could you please 'report' those posts to me? I will take immediate action on those as soon as you report them.

Thanks,

[Harjas Kaur]

Immediate action is it? I wrote you PM's, I reported, others have commented, I have been commenting non-stop. This has been going on for how long?

atanu (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=24) writes #127 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=34600&postcount=127) of Important Message or Lunacy?

Namaste Kaur Ji
There goes another Jew source.
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=32395

you can see passages from this jew writer in this very thread.
Quote

Yes, and If your own mother is violated and murdered, will you describe the same way? as "mere" guna interactions? Gandhi did in fact create the stage on which guna interactions of defilement and massacre transpired and by omission did nothing to protect against them.Opinions in Net and in fiction do not constitute shruti. Can you show me the exact passage from "Freedom at Midnight", based on which all this maligning and abusive language is taking place? Gandhi worked to reduce the intensity of hatred, which some spread without knowing that it will come back. The object of hatred is the final abode of the hater. That is sure. That is basic Hinduism.

Moreover, you do not even know that you are abusive to anyone who opposes your view. I think that you may not be following even your religion dutifully. If my mother was violated or murdered I would not blame Gandhi Ji for that. I will still consider the event as a bad intermixing of evil gunas but I will try my best to follow appropriate action, as allowed by law. I will not vent poison. By the way, was your mother violated that you can justify your vituperative language towards Gandhi and us?

Om Namah Shivaya
__________________So my political protests against Gandhi's APPEASEMENT OF MUSLIMS DURING DECLARED JIHAD and EXTREMIST JAIN PACIFISTIC SUICIDAL ADVICE is being claimed as "vituperative language." My comments and opinions are abusive he says. But his own comments of course, wonderful. And by this justification, this post makes personal attack on me, accusing that I am abusive, I am not following my religion dutifully, I am venting poison, I am using abusive language towards Gandhi and the forum participants.

So this I consider to be an example of direct personal attack against my character. It is still here. Yet when I mention these former attacks, all you do is delete my protest as if the protest itself was an attack.


atanu (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=24) writes #162 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=34704&postcount=162) in: Important Message or Lunacy?


Originally Posted by Harjas Kaur View Post
Yeah, like you all say, I'm demonic, I'm the hateful enemy. Whatever. Enjoy your jihadi Muslim and atheist Chinni bhai bhais. Namaste Sister. You are not demonic. You are That, truly. Please don't be emotional. I request you read the following with love for me.

Everone has some responsibilty. One has responsibity towards oneself, family, country and also for the whole of Universe. But it differs from person to person as to upto what extent one is able to take care of.

Do you differ with me that God is responsible for everything under the sun? Why then He does not uproot the whole evil thing in a moment? Do we know?

Men try to be better than each other due to their very nature of creation. But women have much bigger responsiblity -- of preserving and nurturing the unseen (the all pervading spirit) by destroying the divisive asuras. That is what Devi does, who is called Shivaduti -- a messenger of Shiva. In turn, Devi demands that Shiva will assist Her in Her job.

Given that background, I urge you to please evaluate whether it will serve any good purpose to wrongly spread the message that Gandhi Ji said "Cooperate with Rapists"?

It is not my wish to argue on political matters. If I have argued with you it is just to point out again and again that women have the responsibilty of preserving and protecting the God's Universe.

Please take your time. I have a request. Please wash away the hurts. Accumulated sense of hurt influences how we see things. For example a Naxalite harbors a lot of mis-givings about injustice to him and his poor folks. Similarly, an extreme rightist thinks that it is his right to kill others or nuke other contries. But not equipped with the knowledge of Hinduism that "what you think you become", they do not know. A naxalite might have been a big industrialist and so forth.

Finally, no single man is responsible for anything. It kAla (Lord Time) who supervises and designs. No man or woman is demonic but temporarily negative thoughts may take control.

Best Wishes and RegardsAmra on this thread called me demonic, for which in PM's he gave me kind apology. So I have no issue with Amra Ji. And in this thread I referred to that comment which Atanu takes exception to further slander me as comparing with an "rightest extremist," "a Naxalite," "violating the Dharm of a woman," accused of "not being equipped with knowledge of Hinduism," and now, while cleverly saying I am not demonic, but still "temporarily taken over" by negative (read: demonic) thoughts.

Again, this kind of personal insults and derailing of political issues is all over this old thread, mostly accusations by multiple members accusing me of spiritual deficiencies and even calling as demonic, or while tactically retracting demonic accusation, calling as the same thing in other words. THESE ARE THE REAL PERSONAL ATTACKS AND FLAMES! And when I protest them, or point out the hypocrisy of those comments in later threads, I am NOT attacking. By deleting my comments and labeling as "deleted for personal attacks." You are defending the real personal attacks and flames which remain posted, and prohibiting me from referring to posted material still linkable on this forum, with exception of the comments against Sikhs as Muslims but not accepted as Hindus. And even with that outrageous provocation which I called lies, you protected Atanu making no correction and only deleted and accused me of flaming for so saying.

I am not flaming to call Atanu a liar for saying Sikh religion is a form of Islam and Not part of Hindu Dharm. So why did you let him accuse like that without saying anything publicly to him about unnecessary provocations and personal attacks? Those statements were lies as they were deliberate provocations. All you did was delete the context and accuse ME of flaming him for protesting.

I am not attacking Atanu for pointing out the numerous times he has attacked my personal qualities. Neither has he ever apologized for making them. Neither have you ever once addressed publicly that it's not proper to provoke attacks against religion by calling Sikhs as Muslims and rejecting as Hindu. Or by calling me as ignorant, misguided, against Dharma, demonic, or having demonic qualities. And you wonder why I protest so strongly over and over?

Then you target my protests as negative and never even bother to hear what they are saying. You have targeted me before the forums as someone who is flaming and attacking. Yet those people who are actually making attacks, as right now against Sai Baba, you defend as "thought-provoking?" Someone tries to defend Hindu Dharma by protesting from scriptural references that this is wrong, you delete and accuse of irrelevance. What could be more relevant?

So at every turn you make me out to be the bad character. Personal attacks and slanders ARE happening. But you are not ending them by erasing my protests and targeting me as the source of blame. And so the personal attacks will continue motivated by sectarian and ideological differences. And it will literally create an anti-Hindu forum. Because Satay is not listening to the real problems:

-->ANYONE who says anything about Muslim onslaught will have character assassination on this forum by these people who PROMOTE RADICAL UNIVERSALISM AND ENDLESS BLAME OF HINDU'S AND SHAME AND SCANDAL OF HINDU'S to justify in defense of same Muslims with "accusations of double standards."<--

You should have stopped that thread at the first sign of unproved slanders and deleted the pornographic allegations. Instead, as always, you deleted my protests.

[satay]

Immediate action is it?


I will go through that thread. Please be patient.

Thank you.

[satay]

Namaskar,


Immediate action is it? I wrote you PM's, I reported, others have commented, I have been commenting non-stop. This has been going on for how long?

atanu (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=24) writes #127 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=34600&postcount=127) of Important Message or Lunacy?
You should have stopped that thread at the first sign of unproved slanders and deleted the pornographic allegations. Instead, as always, you deleted my protests.


This thread has been moderated now starting from post 126.

Thanks,

[satay]

Namaskar,

Once again, please report any such posts that are against the forum rules. Personal attacks are considered flaming and not allowed on HDF.
But you have to report those as I am unable to read every post on HDF.

Thanks,


-->ANYONE who says anything about Muslim onslaught will have character assassination on this forum by these people who PROMOTE RADICAL UNIVERSALISM AND ENDLESS BLAME OF HINDU'S AND SHAME AND SCANDAL OF HINDU'S to justify in defense of same Muslims with "accusations of double standards."<--

You should have stopped that thread at the first sign of unproved slanders and deleted the pornographic allegations. Instead, as always, you deleted my protests.

[bhaktajan]

Satay,

All my respects to the moderator and his internet forum!


Which part of the following forum rule do you not understand?

No Flaming: Please do not post messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting to another member or guest. Please do not post inflammatory, rude, repetitive, or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize other members or disrupt the flow of discussion. This includes messages in profiles and signatures. Controversial topics are welcomed on HDF, however, do not post or create threads only for the sake of creating controversy or hostility. This site is for positive presentation of Sanatana Dharma. Please do not post insulting, hostile or negative comments about Hindus, Hinduism, India or Indians.

BUT YOU MUST KNOW THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you get the nerve to be such a shallow poster?

Are you are doing drugs? Offended?
Don't worry about the offence; just cure your own problems first.

Your like an auto-mechanic that redicules those that show up to repair their car only to be scoffed at and told, "hey, don't bring that make of auto here!"

The last person I know who spoke like you have in post #14 was named Bhavananda Gosvami.
......................................................
Post #13:
"you either are a Christian or hold Christian beliefs. There are much better places on the internet to do this kind of questioning."

If that is truth then why are there 13 post before spanning 2 pages ---followed by your cheerleading at the:
Canteen Share what's on your mind, have a cup of tea and relax here and get mocked by HINDU INTELLECTUALS*.

Satay, You are the modetrator, or is it a "censor" of other's thought?

[satay]

namaskar Bhaktajan,

I am not sure what you are objecting you. Please elaborate if your time permits.

I do not do drugs, never have, never will. I am engineer though mostly in management now. Though I do know a bit about cars and can do my own oil changes etc.

yes, I am the moderator of the forum and have censored or banned a large number of people who lie at sign up time and agree to abide by the rules of the forum but then turn around and attack hinduism, hindus, india or indians in general. We can't have that here...there are many other forums on the internet that allow that type of nonsense. So I always redirect them out of HDF. My job is to keep HDF clean and throw the garbage out.

You don't have to like my style of garbage removal nor do you have worry about it. You can simply concentrate on posting quality posts.



Satay,

All my respects to the moderator and his internet forum!


Which part of the following forum rule do you not understand?

No Flaming: Please do not post messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting to another member or guest. Please do not post inflammatory, rude, repetitive, or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize other members or disrupt the flow of discussion. This includes messages in profiles and signatures. Controversial topics are welcomed on HDF, however, do not post or create threads only for the sake of creating controversy or hostility. This site is for positive presentation of Sanatana Dharma. Please do not post insulting, hostile or negative comments about Hindus, Hinduism, India or Indians.

BUT YOU MUST KNOW THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you get the nerve to be such a shallow poster?

Are you are doing drugs? Offended?
Don't worry about the offence; just cure your own problems first.

Your like an auto-mechanic that redicules those that show up to repair their car only to be scoffed at and told, "hey, don't bring that make of auto here!"

The last person I know who spoke like you have in post #14 was named Bhavananda Gosvami.
......................................................
Post #13:
"you either are a Christian or hold Christian beliefs. There are much better places on the internet to do this kind of questioning."

If that is truth then why are there 13 post before spanning 2 pages ---followed by your cheerleading at the:
Canteen Share what's on your mind, have a cup of tea and relax here and get mocked by HINDU INTELLECTUALS*.

Satay, You are the modetrator, or is it a "censor" of other's thought?

[bhaktajan]

What dictatorship in world history allow Anarchism to run amok in the streets especially outside his palace.

Protests in dictatorships are only approved when they are in accordance with the allowed doctrine.

Censorship is arbitrary and it is not democratic.

[satay]

namaskar bhaktajan,
I appreciate your feedback.

From your post, I take it that you are unhappy with the forum rules or my moderation. You are free to call me a dictator.

The forum rules are clear and all members 'accept to abide by the forum rules' at registration time. If they then don't follow the forum rules, what can I do but to redirect them out of HDF to places better suited for their personal agendas.

Would you allow garbage in a temple or in your house? Same principle applies here.

If you have a question about the forum rules, please PM me.

I will happily continue to redirect people out of HDF where their personal agendas are not in alignment with the purpose of the forum.

Honestly, it is very simple: follow the forum rules. If the forum rules are confusing you or are not clear, ask me. Simple.

For those that don't like hindus, hinduism, india, indians, hdf as a place for satsang, members of hdf, posts of members of hdf, rules of hdf etc., I don't think it is healthy for them to stick around and have a troubled mind. Why not find something else better to do? There are plenty of places on the net that can fit all types of personal agnedas. So not sure, what the problem is...For these people, it is easier for me to redirect them out.


Thanks and enjoy the discussions.


What dictatorship in world history allow Anarchism to run amok in the streets especially outside his palace.

Protests in dictatorships are only approved when they are in accordance with the allowed doctrine.

Censorship is arbitrary and it is not democratic.

[Eastern Mind]

I will happily continue to redirect people out of HDF where their personal agendas are not in alignment with the purpose of the forum.



Vannakkam Satay, all:

Another option would be to start your own forum. (I mean, if Satay can do it, how hard can it be? ...... just kidding, please don't ban me.) Then you would be the dictator (referee, moderator) and when those you disagree with are banned by you.

Aum Namasivaya

[bhaktajan]

I understand and respect what you say in post #48 and I respect what HDF stand for--- I have no confusion about it.

But I see that you contradict the dictums yourself ---because you can.

It does not clarify anything when you do so.

There are a handful of posters [those with countless Reputation Marks in their favor] who talk gibberish that hardly pass for english, that is consistantly overlooked.

You are exceeding the position of moderator just like ISKCON novice Bhaktas will chastice new comers for not being as fixed-up as they are.

You are exceeding the position of moderator by posting your opinion amongst regular posters and then counter-arguing via elimination of an opponents posting.

I know when I see Offensive postings and I know when the dialouge is being slanted by someone who then cannot be countered.

The above posts that you have moved here were not expunged but moved ---so it is not the contents but you sense of decorum.

An interior decore arranger versus polemic artistry of the written word.

[satay]

namaskar,

Thanks for another laugh. No, I will not ban you.

Really, it is not that hard. Just buy some forum software, buy a domain name, find a hosting company and buy a hosting package from them (monthly/yearly) and install the software on their servers. Then just continue to renew domain and hosting services.

Invite your friends to post and voilla one has a forum. Another hindu forum is going to be beneficial for everyone.



Vannakkam Satay, all:

Another option would be to start your own forum. (I mean, if Satay can do it, how hard can it be? ...... just kidding, please don't ban me.) Then you would be the dictator (referee, moderator) and when those you disagree with are banned by you.

Aum Namasivaya

[bhaktajan]

Vannakkam Satay, all:

Another option would be to start your own forum. (I mean, if Satay can do it, how hard can it be? ...... just kidding, please don't ban me.) Then you would be the dictator (referee, moderator) and when those you disagree with are banned by you.

Aum Namasivaya

So that make the Forum's Namesake a misnomer?

It should be something more along the lines:
WWW.SataytheModerator'sHinduDharmaForums.com (http://www.SataytheModerator'sHinduDharmaForums.com)

Now that would be plain and simple and elementary.

But maybe it is as it is because it reflects the culture from which it sprang?

Dissent is not useful in a iron-fist junta?

Fidel, Mao, Chavez, Lenin et al were fighting for the greater good by asserting their authority. Long live the Authorities!

Hindu forum is going to be beneficial for everyone. But for now, There is only one supplier of the commodity still standing, so far.

Monopoly is a game and it is us,
Bhaktajan

[Eastern Mind]

Fidel,

Bhaktajan

I've always had a special place in my heart for Fidel, despite his shortcomings especially in incidents like when he offered 200 or more free doctors to New Orleans flood victims. He forced a few people to get out of their comfortable thinking boxes.

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

namaste bhaktajan,

No, I will not change the name of the forum to what you suggested. I think the name of the forum couldn't be simpler than what it already is.


So that make the Forum's Namesake a misnomer?

It should be something more along the lines:
WWW.SataytheModerator'sHinduDharmaForums.com (http://www.SataytheModerator'sHinduDharmaForums.com)

Now that would be plain and simple and elementary.




But maybe it is as it is because it reflects the culture from which it sprang?
Dissent is not useful in a iron-fist junta?

Not sure what culture you are talking about but
Why do some people lie when registering for HDF? What's in their mind at the registration time? Why do they lie when answering the 'what's your purpose for joining HDF?'

I think about such questions all the time.



Fidel, Mao, Chavez, Lenin et al were fighting for the greater good by asserting their authority. Long live the Authorities!


I have no idea of who these people are.



Hindu forum is going to be beneficial for everyone. But for now, There is only one supplier of the commodity still standing, so far.

Monopoly is a game and it is us,
Bhaktajan

Commodity is something that one can buy and sell and hopefully make financial profit on the transaction.

Let me ask: You don't like HDF, you don't like its rules, you certainly don't like the moderation policies, you don't seem to like some members' posts.

What keeps you hanging around here? What's your purpose on HDF? Don't you have better things to keep you busy in your life? If your personal agenda is not aligned with the forum then ... what are you doing here?

Sorry about the intruding questions but I wonder about these questions all the time about some members.

ps: BTW, I just did a google on Fidel and the guy in your avatar picture looks like him! :)

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Satay and all
Yes it begs the question why some people come here we have one who says he is Hindu yet he shows nothing but contempt of Hindu Dharma, for him there is only one ‘saviour’ and when the truth about it is challenged another so called Hindu (and I say so called because if you pressed them hard enough they will refuse to be Hindu,) finds that not to their test, why? Because they have more in common with Christians and Muslims, to them other Hindu practice and advaita in particular is demonic.

It is made extremely difficult to argue against this type of mentality, on one hand they declare them self Vedic but unfortunately to them Vedic only extends to some puranas and smriti text. Those who follow other text and even Vedas are scorned upon.

Satay you are doing a wonderful job and these Forum is the best that I have seen on the net, lately we have not had satsanga we all desire, because some people are hell bent on flaming us, all amount of reasoning falls on deaf years, they are not even ashamed to admit that they will not consider anything outside of their box.

If they don’t like Hindus or the unity in diversity, what purpose would serve them to continue here, they should ask themselves, instead of questioning your integrity?

Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

pranam Ganesh,

I appreciate you comments. However, I do believe bhaktajan has a point. I have been thinking about this for some time. Perhaps a 'moderator' or 'admin' shouldn't have the right to post or discuss on the forum. Otherwise it is seen as influencing the discussion.

Let me think about this a bit more. In the past few months, I have tried not to post much and just focus on adminstration of the forum but lately, I have been involved in some discussions. Should I sit silent when people come here pretending to be hindus and then attack hinduism? Perhaps, that's best for the forum.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Satay:

I don't think you post much at all. Most of your posts are on moderating, or to do with moderation. Certainly we have the right to combat the Abrahamic attacks, or attacks between people wit differing POV's when it turns personal. I think you should leave it as it is. You have every right to contribute to discussions, and your contributions are valued.

Aum Namasivaya

[Mohini Shakti Devi]

Satay Prabhu,

You should chime in with your chasticement as a referee poster, rather then a poster like a regular forum member.

The idea of relugating bickering to another thread works well as a warning to stay on topic to those who want their views read amongst the original Thread. But moving the contentieous post to a segregated locale is very fair.

If the posters is obviuosly without merit except to flame then it would be even obvious to the offending poster that it was inevitable to have their flaming post deleted.

The problem is that a poster seeks to evolve the other's POV and we too seek to appeal to other logic. But it takes time to formulate a rebuttal.

I have had to think for days before responding to a challenge and or question pro or con.

It is actually a treat to hear from the moderator. It's like a School principal showing up at a classroom party and joins in.

The problem appears to be an abuse of authority that losses the propreity and the decorum of free expression, by the added burden of being made to more articulate when posting ['walking on egg shells'].

Aside from having so-called strong opinions we all want to practice skills in persuasion, which is after all, an intellectual process of enfoldment.

Loud noisy debates will attract attention, which is good; we just don't want grafitti.

The moderator can be a coach and a referee and a councilor over looking the school yard play. A loud ring of a bell to rough play will cause those playing like bad boys to recognize that the bell tolls for them.

But to delete a post [especially when it is derived from authentic source] is like burning down the Alexanderia Library in miniture.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Satay

i don't see no reason why you should not post, like everyone else you have your appreciation and doubts. off course you have a bigger responsibility as not to be biased.

there are a lots of authentic source(only valid in some quarter) and controversy within it, puranas are full of it. if we bring them up then we have lost the concept of vivek.
This forum stands for positive image of Hindu Dharma and you are doing a great job, so i keep saying.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Khatri]

I don't understand this moderator appreciation. Clearly a dictator.

[satay]

namaskar,
Thank you for the feedback.



The problem appears to be an abuse of authority that losses the propreity and the decorum of free expression, by the added burden of being made to more articulate when posting ['walking on egg shells'].


Interesting your point of view. I think the forum rules are simple so I never understand why people break them. Free expression is not censored but the forum rules have to be followed. That's the only requirement...

Please give the rules your kind consideration and let me know if some are unclear.



But to delete a post [especially when it is derived from authentic source] is like burning down the Alexanderia Library in miniture.

Which post are you talking about? The thread about 'demons'?

No, I will not allow such threads on this generic hindu forum that hurt non vaishnava sentiments. I am not qualified to judge if the information is from authentic source or not.

I am only going by the forum rules. Calling other hindus 'demons' is against 'positive presentation of sanatana dharma' forum rule. Thus even though your sampardaya might allow calling others demons, I will not allow you to post those things here. Though you can post all the other beautiful teachings of your sampardaya that present sanatana dharma and its adherents postively.

Perhaps you can find another forum on the net that will allow those types of threads. If you want, I can do a quick search for you and point them out.

Thanks for your understanding.

[rkpande]

I think our moderator is very tolerant and he is not only learned but has a keen sense of humour which we all need.
this is by far the best forums i have come across on the net.
keep the good work going.
rk

[devotee]

Namaste Satay,

I have read some of the posts posted by some forum members & I am not all amused at what they have written.

Everyone has written exactly what was expected from him/her. There are hardly any surprises. I did feel bad by reading some of the posts against you but as I said earlier, it was not at all a surprise from people who wrote such posts. It would have been a real surprise if they wrote differently !

Before criticizing others, people should have a look at their own behaviour but that is difficult & we find it easy to target "others". Those who have expressed their anger against your moderation are only those who have been guilty of transgressing the forum rules in the past & have faced moderation. So, you can't let them sit on the throne of the judge and expect a fair deal from them for the moderator.

In our everyday life, it is a common experience, that the people in administration, can't expect to be liked by all, irrespective of the degree of the administrator's impartiality in dealing with the administration. The administrator must take up the stick sometimes to set the things right in the organisation whether he is liked or disliked by affected people. Moderator can choose to remain completely passive & not act all & thus let the whole forum meet its doom or can choose to keep the things on the rails & be ready to face criticism from "adversely" affected quarters. It is better not to have a forum at all than to have an unmoderated forum.

There are many who are your admirers here. This admiration cuts across belief systems & so it can't be stated to be biased on any side. I, among many of our friends here, am a great admirer of your unbiased moderation & efforts taken by you to give us all the best forum for the Hindus on the net. Where else on net, you can have such sensible discussions ?

A moderator is more like the class teacher as someone said. Just imagine if the teacher starts judging himself/herself by the criticism of those students who have been caught transgressing the rules of the school & punished by the teacher ! A moderator has to be ready for such criticism. A time will come when these people will also think sensibly & appreciate your hard work.

Regarding your posting .. come on, Satay, you can't let others decide what you should or shouldn't do ! You need not be just a dumb moderator ... you do have your opinions which you would like to share with us all. As long as you are observing the rules of this forum while posting ... I don't know how it affects the quality of moderation or anything here. This forum should not be seen as a court room where people are debating like lawyers & you are sitting there like a judge ! It is to be seen more like a family affair where every family member is free to express & share his/her thoughts & that includes the chief too who has to shoulder the responsibility of moderation. When you act as a moderator, you act as a moderator AND when you act as a common forum member, you act as a common forum member ! It is that simple !

Let's not complicate it. This system is running quite fine & I don't think there is any need to correct it. There is a saying in engineering, "Don't try to repair/set right the machine which is working alright !". Aren't we making the same mistake here ?

Best wishes ...

OM

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam all:
Devotee: Wow. Very well said.

I remember three words that helped me out a lot about 15 years ago. I was reacting to criticism from either parents or another colleague regarding my ability to teach. Another colleague who I admire (d) a lot came up and said, "___me_____, consider the source." I recalled those words after that quite often when faced with a repetition of the same situation.

Now I think if highly regarded members such as Devotee or Saidevo, or Yajvan came on and critiqued you in a negative manner, there might be cause for concern. But they haven't, so there isn't. Simple as that.

Aum Namasivaya

[saidevo]

namaste Satay.

In your unenviable position as the moderator, you are doing an incredible job! What strikes most is your unassuming manner, trying to explain the purpose and rules of HDF patiently and untiringly, explain your position, against the position taken by a poster who finds fault with your task of garbage removal, and if they still won't listen, suggesting an alternate way for them, and only finally, it at all necessary, you resort to redirecting people out of HDF. Thus, you are following the traditional sAma--dAna--bheda--daNDa, that is first reason it out, then have a give and take approach, then state your differences and only finally resort to the stick!

A great job Satay, be not disturbed with any sort of criticism. There is no denial that HDF is what it is only because of you.

[satay]

namaste everyone,

Thank you for the kind words devotee, sai, eastern, rkpande and others. Thanks for the encouragement. I value your words and your words on this matter are reassuring and are a singal that I am doing the right thing for HDF.

On the other hand, I am also now very embarrased and don't deserve anyone's admiration. I am just a simple guy trying to learn the religion of my ancestors.

The forum is what it is because of members like you posting excellent high quality and well researched posts.


HDF really is becoming a good source of material on hinduism in general.

Thank you.

[bhaktajan]

satay,

This letter is in regards to the last rude deletion of my posts.

Please recognise that your doing so felt like a kick in the head! So reactively I am swatting back at you.

This is your pastime and you draw my attention to you ---NOT KRISHNA.

Then delete each post that has the word Iskcon in it.

Do one need to start a thread that starts out as "Irrelevant posts"?

And then delete relevent Posts as irrelevant?

Your declaration of "IRRELEVANT" is your subjective arbitrary intrusion.

It is an intrusion by any other name. The reason for cleaning up is simply a power trip that affects free-speech.


Let me interpret:
"If you must discuss ISKCON [Consciousness of Krishna], please do it in the ISKCON [Consciousness of Krishna] section ---good luck in recalling verbatim what you and the other poster wrote. Good Bye" Thanks for your cooperation like it or not.

=============================
Now, another overbearing non-reply is forthcoming?.

[Jivattatva]

namaste everyone,

Thank you for the kind words devotee, sai, eastern, rkpande and others. Thanks for the encouragement. I value your words and your words on this matter are reassuring and are a singal that I am doing the right thing for HDF.

On the other hand, I am also now very embarrased and don't deserve anyone's admiration. I am just a simple guy trying to learn the religion of my ancestors.

The forum is what it is because of members like you posting excellent high quality and well researched posts.


HDF really is becoming a good source of material on hinduism in general.

Thank you.


Namaste Satayji

I noticed that you deleted my 2 posts in separate threads (" I love Krishna" and "Monotheism" in Newsbot) in which I discussed things in the light of history.

Opinions are points of contentions but history has solid basis. So I'd like to know WHY they were deleted?

I cant understand where you draw the line when moderating.

Thanks Regards

[satay]

namaste Jiva,

In my opinion your post regarding ISKCON being a cult etc. was hostile. It certainly had nothing to do with the Original post of the thread. This is why I deleted your post and all subsequent reactionary posts of some members.

Regarding the other post on Monotheism, I don't recall deleting any of your posts there. Which thread are you referring to?

Thanks.


Namaste Satayji

I noticed that you deleted my 2 posts in separate threads (" I love Krishna" and "Monotheism" in Newsbot) in which I discussed things in the light of history.

Opinions are points of contentions but history has solid basis. So I'd like to know WHY they were deleted?

I cant understand where you draw the line when moderating.

Thanks Regards

[Jivattatva]

Namaste Satay ji


I dont think calling ISKCON a cult is hostile. ISKCON being a cult is not just MY opinion. It's an opinion by many people who got involved in it. It is also an opinion by some mental health professionals who studied the organization.

Apart from that, even the court of law of the United States of America acknowledged the abnormal way that institution was run. I dont need to open a can of worms. They are all in the public domain if anyone cares to know the truth.

Still, I remember that in my post I even said that "maybe they have improved through the years", so I dont think I was not trying to be balanced.

The Monotheism thread was in the automatic newsbot section. My response was regarding a study in a university in Germany about the codefication of the Gv philosophy.

Anyway, I hope moderation here should be given more thought than random spur of the moment thing.

Thank you. All the best

[satay]

namaskar Jiva,

I appreciate your comments and feedback.

Please note that moderation on HDF is not a spur of the moment thing though it might seem that way.

Please review the site rules by clicking on the FAQ section. Please let me know if you have any questions about a specific rule.

Regarding ISKCON, calling it cult etc. has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

Regarding the other thread, still investigating...

Thanks.


Namaste Satay ji


I dont think calling ISKCON a cult is hostile. ISKCON being a cult is not just MY opinion. It's an opinion by many people who got involved in it. It is also an opinion by some mental health professionals who studied the organization.

Apart from that, even the court of law of the United States of America acknowledged the abnormal way that institution was run. I dont need to open a can of worms. They are all in the public domain if anyone cares to know the truth.

Still, I remember that in my post I even said that "maybe they have improved through the years", so I dont think I was not trying to be balanced.

The Monotheism thread was in the automatic newsbot section. My response was regarding a study in a university in Germany about the codefication of the Gv philosophy.

Anyway, I hope moderation here should be given more thought than random spur of the moment thing.

Thank you. All the best

[Onkara]

Namast&#233; Satay
What about a "Debate" section where stonger doubts and conerns can be voiced and addressed by those who choose to enter the directory to do so?

A debate area in theory would reduce the need to voice negative concerns in the other directories, making it a rule not to do so in the specifically focused directories. People often need to express their doubts and dislikes and have them addressed. This could be still done, but out of the main areas? You could then also move posts into that directory still perserving the input, most of which is well written. Others in the forum can then consider if they wish to enter that directory to re-take up the matter or leave it. The Canteen and "New to Sanatana Dharma" sections work well for basic questions and everyone seems to respect that intuitively.

I have no doubt you may have considered this.:o I think your aim to keep the quality of posts high and the insulting other out is a good policy and one I observe. Of course insulting, racist and direct attacks on people should always be avoided/deleted, but well thought out posts on problems or rejection of philosophy could be kept away from the core directories yet expressed and addressed by those who go into the debate section knowing there will be some negativity involved. Some people like debate.

For example I don't necessarily want to start a thread about Krishna's role in the Puranas and then be told that the Puranas are completely wrong, but I would be grateful to hear why someone thinks they are wrong in a debate section so I can re-consider my perspective and eliminate doubts constructively after my intial question is addressed.

Just some input :)

Thanks for keeping the forum going! :D

[satay]

namaste,

Are you talking about the following thread? http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5330

I didn't delete your post from there. Is the post showing up for you?


Namaste Satay ji


The Monotheism thread was in the automatic newsbot section. My response was regarding a study in a university in Germany about the codefication of the Gv philosophy.

Thank you. All the best

[Jivattatva]

Namaste satayji

Yes, it's there. I was mistaken. I sincerely apologize for the extra work I have given you. I'm very sorry.

My confusion arose from this. After I replied to the newsbot item, the newsbot again posted the same newsitem after 2 days. So when I looked the next day I saw the new botposting thread which obviously did not carry my reply. Again, my apologies.

Let me take this opportunity to express my appreciation for the work you are doing for all of us here.

Regards

[satay]

namaste Jiva,

No worries. Take care.

[satay]

namaste atanu,

I realise that I have pained you with my attitude. I moved your post here in case you need to discuss further.


Om Shiva

Namaste All,

I hope satay will allow me this.

I expect Satay to read this fully and then decide whether to throw away this post, if required.

Regards to all.

Om Namah Shivaya

Thanks!

[Krsna Das]

Hari Hari..

For which post of her is Mohini Sakti Devi banned? Just wondering.

[satay]

namaskar,
For making several posts that were against the rules of the forum... Those posts have been deleted.


Hari Hari..

For which post of her is Mohini Sakti Devi banned? Just wondering.

[Krsna Das]

Ok thats why Mohini Sakti Devi is banned.

I see BhaktaJan and Ranjeetmore is also banned. Which post?

I think we can start a new thread named "BANNED" where you can let us know why such and such person was banned, so that others will also come to know what actually happened.

BTW thanks for keeping Siva's thread clean.

==

Just curious, is it so that HK's are banned more often than others? :)

[Eastern Mind]

Satay: Just a question... On the Lord Siva: A Gaudiya perspective thread, you must have deleted the opening statement as now my response shows first, and that suggests I started it, and I didn't as I wouldn't because I know nothing or very little about Gaudiya Vaisnavism.

Thanks...

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

Namaskar,

Regarding Prof. Nara, I feel the need to share the PM I send it to him. Please see the exchange of PM's below:



namaskar!
I noticed in one of your posts the following:




Please permit me to give some examples of Hindu IPUs, no scorn is intended. Ithihasa puranas are full of IPUs. Shiva is supposed to be half man, half woman, with water sprouting from his head, with a sliver of a moon that never waxes or wanes. Vishnu is supposed to lie on a snake bed in an ocean of milk, with a stem coming out of his belly button that supports a four-faced Brahmma, actually he once had five faces, but shiva cut one off. You see, Hinduism is not free of its own set of IPUs.

Please note that almost all of your post is against the ruels of HDF. Please familiarlize yourself with the forum rules by clicking on FAQ link in the top bar.

I realize that hinduism has a thousand problems, however, exposing those is not the purpose of HDF. HDF is for 'positive presentation' of Hinduism. I can't say that we have been successful 100&#37; of the time in that theme, however, I would like all members to stick to that rule most of the time. All other rules and discussions on HDF stem from this main theme or goal of HDF.

Please take care in future. If you want to expose or discuss problems of Hindusism, HDF is not the right place to do it. There are hundreds of forums on the net that allow those types of discussions and I would encourage you to visit those forums instead.

Thank you and I hope that you understand my position as the admin.

Cheers!




....
Please take care in future. If you want to expose or discuss problems of Hindusism, HDF is not the right place to do it.

I am sorry satay, I misunderstood, I thought free and fair discussion was fair game. I did go through the FAQ and I thought I was following the rules like, no flaming, no spamming, no offensive posts, no commercial or self promotion.

From the "About" section, I put the emphasis on "open forum for constructive discussion on all aspects of Indian culture and traditions", I guess the main objective is the positive presentation of Sanatana Dharma.

satay, I have no intention of being an offensive to anyone. I was just presenting my POV which I think is based on solid evidence. But I do respect the intention of the forum. Given that it is for the positive promotion of Hinduism, I cannot participate in the promotion of that myth.

I appreciate the welcome most, not all, have shown to me. I will no longer post in this forum.

Thank you satay, take care...


namaskar,


I guess the main objective is the positive presentation of Sanatana Dharma.


Thank you. Yes, that's correct. Positive presentation is the main objective. I will be sure to review the about section and the FAQ and clearly spell it out for others as there seems to be always confusion about it among new members.



satay, I have no intention of being an offensive to anyone. I was just presenting my POV which I think is based on solid evidence. But I do respect the intention of the forum. Given that it is for the positive promotion of Hinduism, I cannot participate in the promotion of that myth.

I appreciate the welcome most, not all, have shown to me. I will no longer post in this forum.

Thank you satay, take care...

Thank you. Take care.

[vivendi]

Satay, you did the right thing. Prof Nara thinks it is a fair discussion to expose the negative things of Hinduism! I don't think he gave any solid evidence in his posts.

As such we could have debated on the negative things of Buddhism, which I believe is Nara's adopted philosophy. There are many holes to be punched there too. So can Darwin and Dawkins can be ridiculed. But that would again be going down to that level. Every single thing in this universe can be punched because nothing is perfect.

Some people think their opinions are the most rational because they do not attach themselves to any diety or theory. But that's hardly the case. Man, however much he claims he is logical by thinking independently, is always biased and illogical. That was apparent in the 'professor's' case as well.

[satay]

Namaskar everyone!

Just to let you know, I have requested Prof. Nara to continue posting on HDF. I would like to thank atanu and nara for making me reconsider the matter. It took some time and a number of private messages backa and forth but I think that we have a mutual understanding now.

I wish that our engagements moving forwared are fruitful.

Enjoy the discussions!

[grames]

Dear Satay,

I am glad to read this message also wanted to add one more note. All the "issues" that Prof Nara raised are not to be considered as Negative aspect of Hinduism. In fact, for an ignorant who is not aware of ABCD of Hinduism even if he/she is born in India for indian parents, it takes primary course to understand the ABCDs first before passing on judgments.

I am in the middle of continuing the thread "Response to Prof Nara" and i am confidant that i will be able to touch the reality and truth behind the ABCDs of "Super Natural" power rationally. I will keep that thread of explaining the "personal" aspects of Absolute Truth and with reasons and proof.

Thanks again for not banning one opportunity to present Hinduism rationally.

[MahaHrada]

Dear Satay
I have a Question regarding the recent moderation of my posts. I criticsed certain teachings and also the way they were delivered as being detrimental to Hindu Dharma. I am not shure which of the two aspects of my remark were moderated. It should be ok to say that such and such teaching is detrimental to Hindu Dharma or Society in general, during a discussion, even if this teaching comes from a very popular person like Ramakrishna or Vivekananda?

I understand that postings are deleted that attack a Guru using derogoratory remarks. I am not too much aware of any such remark in my postings. Except that i wrote that the role of "hero" and "villain" appear reversed to me in this story, that could have been misunderstood as a personal attack.

But not only one but at least three of the Ramakrishna stories posted by Sambya contained one or the other derogoratory remark about other acharas or hindu customs, by coincidence those that i hold sacred or in the case of Bankim c. Chatterji directed against a person i respect.

If it is against the forum rules to protest and call it rude, if a great Hindu Nationalist, and one of the greatest authors of modern India is treated inappropriate, i have to accept this even if i do not agree with that policy simply because in my viewpoint i have much greater respect for Bankim C. Chatterjee than i will ever have for Ramakrishna.

What about the other insulting remarks in some of these stories that were posted recently? I greatly respect Kaula Dharma and Vamachara and Aghor panth, in one of the stories someone who is a follower or Guru of that tradition is likened to a person that enters a house by using the toilet sewers by Ramakrishna.

How would a disciple of Ramakrishna feel if the same would be said of him and his path and his Guru? And most importantly how would he react? Like I did? Not at all reacting to insults about my own svadharma and Gurus, only acting when also the samanya dharma is threatened, just discussing the teachings and the way they are delivered, abstaining from any further personal comment about the author of this example?

But judging from the recent editing it would not be allowed under forum rules to ask whether this story is rude or to criticise this teaching as detrimental to Hindu Dharma just because it was a teaching uttered by Ramakrishna.

Is Ramakrishna or Vivekananda allowed to criticise other Traditions and Gurus severly with inappropriate language and the victims are not even allowed to mention that they consider these remarks rude? Somehow i cannot agree to this. I would like to reinsert a passage that contains my original criticism of the teachings of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda and also of their inappropriate language that divides Hindus into good and bad, lowly and evolved according to their doubtful standards.

[satay]

namaste Maha,
I have not removed any parts of your posts that criticise teachings of the mystic in question. I think we hindus cannot be like malecchas where we cannot even question our saints. That said, though questioning their teachings is fine, calling them rude, arrogant etc. is not civil. I moderated the whole thread keeping the above in mind.

You will notice that I have also removed other members personal attacks on you as well. Because such things are not good and personal agendas have to nipped in the bud.

Thanks. Please PM me if you have any further questions.


Dear Satay
I have a Question regarding the recent moderation of my posts. I criticsed certain teachings and also the way they were delivered as being detrimental to Hindu Dharma. I am not shure which of the two aspects of my remark were moderated.

[MahaHrada]

namaste Maha,
I have not removed any parts of your posts that criticise teachings of the mystic in question. I think we hindus cannot be like malecchas where we cannot even question our saints. That said, though questioning their teachings is fine, calling them rude, arrogant etc. is not civil. I moderated the whole thread keeping the above in mind.

You will notice that I have also removed other members personal attacks on you as well. Because such things are not good and personal agendas have to nipped in the bud.

Thanks. Please PM me if you have any further questions.

Namaskar Satay

Thanks for the clarification and as you know i fully agree with your moderation policies. Calling saints rude or arrogant is not civil, thats why i took extra care (once i knew that the stories are authentic) to adress solely the remark, or his teaching as rude etc. and strictly tried to avoid adressing the person, but adressing only the remark or teaching as rude did not prevent the editing.

I will contact you via pm a little detailed later.

[isavasya]

dear moderator satay ji,

You closed the thread down before I could Answer, I would have answered every point raised , but It's your wish.

Also your message box is completely filled, how I can send you a PM ?

[devotee]

Namaste Satay,



I have not removed any parts of your posts that criticise teachings of the mystic in question. I think we hindus cannot be like malecchas where we cannot even question our saints.

Thanks for your intervention at the right opportunity. Yes, there is freedom of expression in Hinduism. One is free to criticise even the most respected ones ... but this right must come with a responsibilty. This criticism should be positive i.e. it should be based on facts and reasoning. However, this is not what is happening here.

Let me clarify here again that I am no follower of Ramkrishna but whatever I know of him, he was one of the brightest shining zewel among the saints of India. People who are ridiculing him should first try to know about him ... but that is not reflected here. The criticism is coming out of sheer vengeance that Sri Ramkrishna didn't advise people to follow the Vaamaachaara. We fully know what Vaamaachaar in Bengal & rest of India was & why it was rooted out from Hindu practices. If anyone has more knowledge then let him share that with us. Keeping the sordid background of this practice in mind can we know what was wrong when people like Ramkrishna didn't advise people to go for it & how it damaged the society's interests as is being propagated ?

I say that if anyone has any doubt, let him go to Bengal & say openly that he practises Vaamaachaar & see the reaction of the common man !

What was Bankim Chandra Chatterjee ? He was a writer and not a saint. But the saint is being compared with Bankim chandra chatterjee & saint is being labelled as "Villain" and "rude", "foolish", "against dharma" & what not ! Did Bankim chandra felt that Ramkrishna was beng rude or acting as a villain or foolish while advising against indulging in "Food, sleep and sex" ? Which Hindu sastra says that "Only aim of a human being is "food, sleep and sex" ? Let's not forget that Ramkrishna was highly revered by Bankim Chandra Chatterjee & that admonishing was just like a father admonishes a child. But the whole scenario has been distorted into something else ! Would Bankim Chandra ask for such supports against Ramkrishna ?

And how cleverly it is being pleaded that only the acts are being criticised & not the personality ! So, if I say that, "So & so, was behaving like a dog" then it absolves me for saying anything filthy against him as I am only critising his act ! This is more sinister than direct criticising because it is being done with a well thought design in mind to escape moderation. You may understand Satay that this can be stretched too far, if allowed in this manner. Similar tactics can be used against the poster too !

Now, in the same thread sm78 also decided to join in and speak ill about Ramkrishna, as if MH was not enough ! You please see sm78's post & try to find out any fact or any reason posted by him which could justify his uncalled for attack on such a revered saint. It is simply an attack for the sake of attack ! If sm78 has some issue with universalism propagated by Ramkrishna and Vicekananda ... he could have simply said that he didn't agree with Ramkrishna on this account ... but No, he has chosen to justify the use of words like, "villain, rude, foolish, against dharma" etc. against him ! Not only this, sm78 claims that Ramkrishna brain-damaged his followers ! I would like to know how much our respected friend knows of Ramkrishna & who are the followers who were brain-damaged by him ?

What I am saying is that criticism is ok but it should be supported with facts and figures & using proper decent words so that it doesn't hurt sentiments of people for whose it might be sacred. Do I need to remind how many people in India worship Ramkrishna as God and not just as a saint ? Is it not necessary to be very careful while using filthy words against such a personality ? Is it not "flaming" which is against forum rules ?

I have seen people criticising Gandhi, Vivekannada etc. & feeling proud of it. Why do they do so when they are nowhere in stature in comparison to these personalities ? Because it is easier to criticise Gandhi than to become Gandhi ... it is easier to throw filthy words against Vivekananda & Ramkrishna than to become Vivekananda or Ramkrishna.

I am not against positive criticism but it it must be with full responsibilty and sensitivity towards sentiments of those who revere such personalities. It should not be merely his revengeful idea based on his distorted imagination but based on facts and figures and reasoning.

That is what my prayer to all the members and to Satay is.

OM

[atanu]

Namaste Satay,

I have seen people criticising Gandhi, Vivekannada etc. & feeling proud of it. Why do they do so when they are nowhere in stature in comparison to these personalities ? Because it is easier to criticise Gandhi than to become Gandhi ... it is easier to throw filthy words against Vivekananda & Ramkrishna than to become Vivekananda or Ramkrishna.

OM

Namaste Devotee

:iagree:

[sambya]

hi devotee . :goodpost::iagree::logic:

i support your cause !!!

[satay]

Namaste Devotee,
Thanks for the long post.


I am not against positive criticism but it it must be with full responsibilty and sensitivity towards sentiments of those who revere such personalities.
OM

I agree but as we have seen with people criticising other saints e.g. Prabhupada of ISKCON, this ideal though good to preach is not very easy to follow.

I think it is time that we accept that not everyone likes sankara, ramanuja and/or madva. Similarly, not everyone is going to like ramakrishna, vivekananda, prabhupada, sai, sri sri sri or even political figures like gandhi. There is no point in emotionally lashing out on people that oppose these saints. That's a complete waste of everyone's time.

[sambya]

Namaste Devotee,
Thanks for the long post.



I agree but as we have seen with people criticising other saints e.g. Prabhupada of ISKCON, this ideal though good to preach is not very easy to follow.

I think it is time that we accept that not everyone likes sankara, ramanuja and/or madva. Similarly, not everyone is going to like ramakrishna, vivekananda, prabhupada, sai, sri sri sri or even political figures like gandhi. There is no point in emotionally lashing out on people that oppose these saints. That's a complete waste of everyone's time.


namaste satay ji .

i agree with you in this matter . no one has been above criticisms in this world . not even god himself !!! what to speak of mortal saints ?

its not wise to think that evryone will subscribe to a certain philosophy or a certain person's teachings . there would always be a class of people who would criticise and chose to differ . and this is a healthy sign too . the day hinduism shuts out differences of opinion , it would die .

but i would just like to add a little point to the above observation .

when one is not in agreement with someone's ( be it a member of the forum or a saint or a scripture ) views he should stick to mentioning his disagreement in that particular matter and also at the same time express clearly his reasons for having this difference in opinion . this would help others to appreciate the alternative theories in circulation .

people who are in disagreement should not generalise the things and use words like villain , doubtfull standards , cunning etc . the moment such words are used it becomes a slander based on personal grudge . we should limit ourselves to expressing and explaining our disagreements only and not generalise those characters in a negative light . not just for sake of following social norms but also for avoiding causing pain to his followers .

and evrything should be backed by historical , scriptural or other proofs .:)

that was all i wanted to say . thanks for taking time to read through .

pranaams .

[MahaHrada]

doubtfull standards

Even if i repeat myself but if someone calls the shastras of your darshana "poison" and worse, the Guru shisya paramapara is desribed as being "full of faeces" because they waded through the toilet severs, to write that these judgements are done according to doubtful standards seems to me a very moderate way to comment on that. Anything less would amount to praise.

Just imagine the squealing if i would have said the same things about Ramakrishna or Vivekananda?

[sambya]

Even if i repeat myself but if someone calls the shastras of your darshana "poison" and worse, the Guru shisya paramapara is desribed as being "full of faeces" because they waded through the toilet severs, to write that these judgements are done according to doubtful standards seems to me a very moderate way to comment on that. Anything less would amount to praise.

Just imagine the squealing if i would have said the same things about Ramakrishna or Vivekananda?

respected mahahrda ,

i can feel for you .

if you say something bad about ramakrishna/vivekananda with historical evidence and authentic backing i would chose to stay silent . i cannot fight against truth .
but if you would say something bad without any proof or logic just out of anger and personal grudge , then i would protest against it .

thats what i have been doing .

i have already shown why ramakrishna said those things .

now you show me why ramakrishna is a villain, cunning , of doubtful standards , ignorant , self centered, egoistic etc , basing your arguments on authentic sources of scriptures and history alike . i would accept it if you succeed .

but , im afraid , you wont ! :)


Just imagine the squealing if i would have said the same things about Ramakrishna or Vivekananda?

thats what you have been doing !

squealing ?!!! we are roaring in protest , if you have ears to hear . we're the royal bengal tigers , not lynx wild cat or australian dingos . hahahahaha

[devotee]

Namaste Satay,


I agree but as we have seen with people criticising other saints e.g. Prabhupada of ISKCON, this ideal though good to preach is not very easy to follow.

I think it is time that we accept that not everyone likes sankara, ramanuja and/or madva. Similarly, not everyone is going to like ramakrishna, vivekananda, prabhupada, sai, sri sri sri or even political figures like gandhi. There is no point in emotionally lashing out on people that oppose these saints. That's a complete waste of everyone's time.

I think that is why Lord Krishna said, "Karmanyevadhikaaraste maa phaleshu kadaachan". I did the karma of giving my views on need to curb unnecessary provocative remarks on revered saints and you have decided the "karmaphala" as "nil" ! :)

Dear Satay, I am talking of policy which this forum stands for. I am not talking of anything new. Again, if there was any instance of transgression made in the past that doesn't justify any transgression in future. If some law was violated in the past that does not mean tht we should delete the law itself.

If you think I am being emotional, you are wrong. By the above post you are allowing attacks of all kinds on anyone without any reason or rhyme. If I have any grudge against anyone ... I can call names without having any fear of explaining why I did so & get away with that. Let's decide what our policy is for this forum.

I am not saying that this should apply only to Vivekananda or Ramkrishna but should apply to all including Srila Prabhupad. I don't think I have made any derogatory comments against any Guru of any tradition. But if it has been done it was wrong & should have been pointed out. I am also not proposing that everyone should like all saints ... no ! Even if you dislike & want to say something against a saint support with evidences & logic.

But finally, it is for you to decide. If you think it is ok to talk ill of great saints on this forum without explaining why & without supporting with any evidence ... that is ok. Who am I to say anything more ?

OM

[MahaHrada]

Regarding my postings i like to say that it is virtually impossible to be critical when it is considered offensive to criticise what was said and taught, and in this case also in what way it was said. If you are not allowed to criticise the acts and the teaching than what are you going to criticise, his taste in music?

I will also mention some rules i try to keep when i post since people may have wondered why sometimes i keep silent.

1. I try to only criticise remarks and acts and discuss topics, not the person
2. If i am accused of anything i do not defend myself i remain silent.
3. If my teachers or traditions i have studied are attacked by posters, i do not defend them, i also ignore that and remain silent.
4. I do not discuss practical details of sadhana like Mantras, Meditations, Mudras, details of puja not of mine nor of any other tradition. I will also never write out any mantra in any postings Not even the Pranava. I ignore the part of postings of others that contain these elements.
5. I almost totally avoid to write anything about my person or my beliefs, i only wish to discuss topics.

So if you come to the conclusion that because i have respect for a certain person or darshana, i subscribe to it or practise it that is wrong.

If i post for instance about the Bengal shakta Nationalist Movement and what they belive about Kali hungering for ferengi heads i cannot at all understand why someone could come to the conclusion that i run around with a chopper and offer ferengis to Kali or that i even approve of it or see Kali in the same way which i may or may not do, you simply don&#180;t know that unless i tell you.
I am not a Hindu since i have received no samskaras, I am not from Bengal, I am also no tantric or kaula since i do no nitya karmas. I am not a Hindu Nationalist because i am neither a Hindu nor do i live in India. I am also no Vamachari since i cannot get any crocodiles that i can rape where i live. So why the hell do people like Sambya and others think that when i write about any topic what i describe or what i respect is what I am, belive in and do?

This is laughable. This is beyond sanity.

So please when discussing with me leave out my person i do not belief in what you imagine i belive in , I am not what or who you think i am, so please do not try to involve my person in the discussions, my person is uninteresting

[satay]

namaste devotee,



I am talking of policy which this forum stands for. I am not talking of anything new.


The policy of the forum is clear to me.



If you think it is ok to talk ill of great saints on this forum without explaining why & without supporting with any evidence ... that is ok. Who am I to say anything more ?

OM

I don't know what you are talking about and what you are accusing me of now.

It is always ok for hindus to use their brains and not allow anything shoved down their throats. If we are now shoving ramakrishna or vivekananda or gandhi down someone's throat, then there is no difference between hinduism and malecchas.

With all due respect, I think since you and atanu don't like Maha due to previous heated discussions, you are looking at his posts with too much emotion and might be exaggerating in your mind of what he said about ramakrishna.

I didn't see Maha and SM insulting anyone. They are stating their opinions about the teachings of some saints. So? That's allowed or are we like mullahs and some sort of fatwa must be ordered against them?

I can say with all honesty that I am looking at it the issue and the thread with complete impartiallity since I am not a follower of ramakrishna nor do I follow vamachara. Can you say the same for yourself?

And also, I always love your posts and though I appreciate everyone's feedback on moderation, I don't appreciate the repeated dbouts about the way I do my job, especially, if the result is not in your favour.

No one has to like my moderation style or agree with me.

Thanks,

[devotee]

Namaste Satay,

I have always held that because "we" are participating our judgement may be biased. So, certainly you, who is not participating in the discussion, would have clearer view than ours.

However, feedbacks and opinions are not always grudges coming out of getting unfavourable decisions. Sometimes you strongly feel to make your opinion known ... that is all. I just wanted to share my opinion & it hardly affects me whether it is in my favour or not. Expressing opinion also is no indication that I have any grudge against your moderation style.

Please have no doubts ... I have always liked this forum as this forum is well moderated & certainly the credit for that goes to you.

Having made my point clear, I bow out of this thread.

OM

[Darji]

Fact of the matter is, we are dealing with a subject that has many view points, and as the subject is our faith we will all take even the smallest insinuation out of context or look into deeper than what is truly meant. This is unavoidable, and these things WILL continue to happen. Luckily we have a Mod that does a good job of keeping the subjects from getting too out of hand.

So in the immortal words of Rodney King "ouch that hurts!" or better yet, I mean, "Can't we all just get along?"

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namast&#233;



I have another view on this matter as I view the various posts above.

Debates (vāda) here on HDF are sometimes argumentation (tarka) or more serious disputes (jalpa) some may call overbearing replies others may view just as a quibble (cala).

Yet over time within a string that heats-up, a certain gravity occurs and we see the beginning of destructive criticisms ( vitaṇḍā&#185;).
For this I do not understand... why so? I thought the 'opponent' here on HDF was false knowledge ( mithyāj&#241;āna) , no?

I thought most if not all would consider the notion of helping others remove blemishes or defects (doṣa) by offering insights, options, wisdom from the śāstra-s and āgama-s that would assist in removing that blemish.

I am in hopes that the focus of HDF is about the pursuit of the higher good (niḥśreyasa&#185;) though knowledgeable subjects, feedback, most noble debates and ideas that are offered.
Yet it seems at times this is not so and that the higher good is discounted when the conversation tumbles to its knees and the discussion is unfit to continue (nigrahasthāna&#185;).
Why so? Criticisms (vitaṇḍā) manifest and causes harm or at the least road-blocks.

Now are debates 'bad' when there is opposing views ? I think not, yet what is needed? An approach that is balanced , with mindful restraint as needed. If one loses a argument it still produces success... there is success in nīca ( humbleness); it is okay to say I see your point, perhaps my view now needs to be adjusted. I see this only infrequently here on HDF.

As I see it we are simple people - we are here to advance our understanding. We all stand on the shoulders of the wise, and for this we are to become better people.
Of what good does it bring to have a foot on another's throat that has fallen to the ground? This as I see it is beneath the dignity of sanātana dharma.

praṇām

words

vitaṇḍā - fallacious controversy , perverse or frivolous argument
niḥśreyasa -' having no better ', best , most excellent
nigrahasthāna - the position of being unfit to carry on an argument from impossibility of agreeing about first principles