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TatTvamAsi
13 March 2009, 09:02 PM
Namaste Devotee,

I certainly agree with your assessment of the whole situation; especially the fact that people tend to differentiate due to Ahamkaara (ego).

However, what I find disturbing, as I've personally experienced several times, is that whenever there is news/discussions/debates about Hindu philosophy or India in general, anything good that has arisen is always deemed to have occurred by happenstance and all the rotten things about India are there because of Hinduism! This grossly erroneous assumption is devastating not only to Hindus, but to Indians in general. The constant denigration and degradation of Hindu culture is simply sickening. Of course, according to our own scriptures, these times are torrid for Hindus and Hinduism worldwide.

The slow and insidious vitriol that is poured on Hindu society day in and day out by the media, both Indian and foreign and even the pseudo-sickular Indians, is disgusting. For example, there was a FRONT PAGE article in the New York Times today about the 'massive child-malnutrition rates in India despite the apparent growth'! Of course, this is not an affront to Hinduism per se, but attacks Hindu/Indian society. Instead of looking at the bright things India has given to the world like the numeral system, decimal system, Yoga, Buddhism, Sikhism, mathematics (concepts of zero & infinity), we constantly see 'news' about the squalor, illtreatment of women and minorities (musLAME/christian filth), caste system, etc. etc. 99% of the time! BILLIONS of people read this putrid filth as sacrosanct and I get questions very often from my American neighbors and friends alike asking whether India is a (pardon my French) "shithole"! I am sick and tired of defending it and saying that one should find out for onself by traveling there and appreciating the good aspects of Indian/Hindu society instead of imbibing the bilge that is spewed out by the scheming 'free' press around the world. Questions like, "Do you guys really worship rats" and "do you kill muslims and women often"? is all too common by the illiterate masses of the world; even in this so-called '1st-world' country. What is the appreciation India gets? A pathetic statue called an 'oscar' for a movie that obviously denigrates Hindus and India! :rolleyes: The only thing great about the Slumdog oscar was Resul Pookutty's speech when he stated that he is from the country that gave the world AUM and his dedication of his award to his motherland!

It is unfair to blame only the west as Indian pseudo-secular people are demolishing the backbone of India on a daily basis!

Buddhists, especially East-Asian Buddhists and these western converts to Buddhism also add to this already burning flame with venomous language and completely erroneous attitudes towards Hinduism/Hindus and India!

The time has come, for all Hindus, to ACT! If you have some time, you should read Arun Shourie's article on action comparing the oxymoron "Hindutva" and Islamic fundamentalism! He clearly explains his points, which are in resonance with mine, that the same Bhagavad Gita that taught me to be compassionate to ALL things in nature also teaches me to OBLITERATE my enemies that pose a threat to the well-being of me, my family, and my society at large! Remember, inaction is absolute cowardice and there is NO scapegoat like Hindus in today's world. However, I am not one to be sitting by idly as our culture is torn apart from the inside out as well as attacked from abroad continually. It is time to follow the path of ParaSu-rAmA!

The day when India returns to her glorious days of Aryavarta and when her children chant HAR HAR MAHADEV in symphony will be the day my soul finds peace! As the great historian Arnold Toynbee once said, "India the conquered will become India the conquerer!"

JAI HIND!

Namaskar.


Namaste TTA,

It is unfortunate that those who call themselves "teachers" carry so much bias !

I am not an expert but yet I can claim to have studied Buddha & Buddhism to a good extent. I wonder, "Did Buddha, who was a Hindu by birth, ever claim that he was not a Hindu ?". I don't remember any instance when Lord Buddha proclaimed himself to be a Non-Hindu. Please correct me if I am wrong. There are many rituals in Sanatan Dharma which are different from many rituals in Buddhism. But Sanatan Dharma is not like other religions. If other religions are rivers, I would say that Sanatan Dharma is a Sea. Different sects of Sanatan Dharma follow different rituals but still they are part of the great Sanatan Dharma. A current coming out of the Ganges may be known by another name & may have a separate identity as a river but is it completely different from what the Ganges is ?

If a Buddhist or a Hindu says that Buddhism is entirely different from Sanatan Dharma, it only show his ignorance. That shows their lack of understanding of what spirituality is. One who understands the spirituality doesn't go after literal meaning of words & is never after finding differences ... he sees one-ness everywhere.

Whether Vedanta philosophy affected Buddhism or Buddhism affected Vedanta philosophy ? But wait, I think we are missing one very important another philosophy here - Jainism. Why don't we say that Jainism affected both Vedanta & Buddhism or Buddhism affected both Vedanta & Jainism or Vedanta affeceted both Buddhism & Jainism ? Was Lord Mahaveer any less than Lord Buddha ? Those who have a fair knowledge of Jainism & Buddhism must agree that there is a lot of similarity between Jainism & Buddhism. They also have found similar lineage to Mahaveer & have declared that Mahaveer was only the thirteenth Tirthankar & Jainism is as ancient as Sanatan Dharma ! ( Now even Muslims have started asserting that Islam is the "oldest" religion !!)

The truth is not known what affected whom & it can never be known for certainty. In fact, a great Buddhism scholar admitted at one place that Buddhism, especially the Mahayan Buddhism" owe a great deal to Vedanta & not the other way round. I don't say whether he is right or wrong. I can only say here that as per history, all the "three" (if we choose them to be called "three") have same time period when these philosophies emerged. And mind it, they were not only Mahaveer & Buddha but many saints who found same Truth at that time. Others didn't form separate sects & contributed to Vedanta but followers of Mahaveer & Buddha decided to call themselves different.

The compulsion of maintaining a separate religious identity at all costs has its origin in Ahamkaar. If "I" is not "separate" from others ... "I" cannot survive ... the survival instict is so strong that "I" is ready to destroy anything which threatens its separate identity. That is Maya !... or shall we call it Samsaara ?

OM

atanu
13 March 2009, 11:40 PM
Namaste Devotee,

As the great historian Arnold Toynbee once said, "India the conquered will become India the conquerer!"

Namaskar.

Namaskar TTA,

I empathise with your agony, understanding that you must have taken the first part of Toynbee's assertion, namely: "India the conquered----" to heart. Though I feel that there must be something very dysfunctional. Noble, moderate speech is a major teaching in an upanishad.


Om Namah Shivaya

TatTvamAsi
14 March 2009, 01:54 AM
Namaste Atanu,

Don't you feel that India now is not the land it used to be thousands of years ago when the Vedas and Upanishadic thought resounded the walls of every household in every town, city center, etc.? I feel that this 'modern' India, termed a 'socialist secular democracy' has been pivotal in decentralizing Hindu thought in communities all across India and tarnishing the name of Hinduism both domestically & internationally.

With due respect, do you really think that conversing with jihadi & missionary scum will enable them to cogitate, reflect and come to an even-keeled understanding of Sanatana Dharma? At least to the extent of not harming Hindus and Hinduism? Mere words in the modern day are futile. It is action and determined action that one can accomplish what he wishes. As in the great Yoga VasiSta, through self-effort, one can achieve anything and the veil of ignorance can be removed.

I do agree my opinions are not expressed in the most polite of ways and I apologize for that. However, I certainly have no qualms about expressing my opnions and feelings towards those who insult, denigrate, and degrade Hindus/Hinduism and India!


Does it not irk you that Vande Mataram is not the National Anthem of India because Gandhi & Nehru capitulated to the Islamic minority's objection of deifying the motherland (Bharat Mata) and demanded that Jana Gana Mana be taken as the National Anthem although it was composed by Tagore as a welcoming address to King George??? Is it not sad that a Hindu in HIS OWN COUNTRY has to fear for the well-being of his life and his family's due to the complacent attitude towards security and Islamic terrorism? Is it not pitiful that Indian HINDU tax payers are subsidizing pilgrimages of muslims to Mecca and christians to the Vatican while Hindu temples are being robbed in broad daylight and their donations misappropriated? Is it not sad that Hindus don't have a voice in their own society to get a night's peaceful rest without having to be rudely awakened to the cacophany of the morning Islamic prayer from all the mosques through loud-speakers? Need I go on?

Dialogue with these beasts will not suffice. I am afraid far too many "Hindus" who immediately say "peace is the way" are ultimately hand-in-glove with the jihadis and christian missionaries due to their complacency. That, in my opinion, is definitely un-Hindu-like.

Anyway, if a moderator feels my language was too vulgar, feel free to edit it out or censor it. However, I have made my point and it is one man's opnion that resonates at the deepest levels of all Hindus in the world.

Namaskar.


Namaskar TTA,

I empathise with your agony, understanding that you must have taken the first part of Toynbee's assertion, namely: "India the conquered----" to heart. Though I feel that there must be something very dysfunctional. I do not see how Rahul Gandhi can be termed a rapist etc. Or some others bastards etc. And many other ephitets that you use are hardly Hindu like. Noble, moderate speech is a major teaching in an upanishad.

I know the moderator is away, but still I request moderator (or anyone empowered) to see whether such words are warranted or not?


Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
14 March 2009, 03:11 AM
Namaste Atanu,


----- Gandhi & Nehru capitulated to the Islamic minority's objection of deifying the motherland (Bharat Mata) and demanded that Jana Gana Mana be taken as the National Anthem although it was composed by Tagore as a welcoming address to King George??? Namaskar.

Namaste TTA,

Shed away your prejudice and take your own stand. Don't malign names such as Gandhi, Rabindranath in order to fight for and protect Hinduism.





Jana gana mana adhinayaka jaya he
O! Dispenser of India's destiny, thou art the ruler of the minds of all people
Thy name rouses the hearts of Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, the Maratha country,
in the Dravida country, Utkala and Bengal;
It echoes in the hills of the Vindhyas and Himalayas,
it mingles in the rhapsodies of the pure waters of Yamuna and Ganga
They chant only thy name.
They seek only thy auspicious blessings.
They sing only the glory of thy victory.
The salvation of all people waits in thy hands,
O! Dispenser of India's destiny, thou art the ruler of the minds of all people
Victory to thee, Victory to thee, Victory to thee,
Victory, Victory, Victory, Victory to thee"Jana gana mana adhinayaka jaya he", means "victory to the ruler of minds of all (jana and gana)". If one knew sanskrit or even analysed the translation with calm mind, one would know that it was a song in praise of nirakar Shiva (like all songs of Gitanjali also). The song speaks of the great people of Bharata, from Dravid country to Utkal, who chant His name to seek His Auspicious blessings. All Tagore's songs are in worship and praise of nirakar shiva, whose name rouses the hearts of people in Sindh, Punjab, Dravid, Utkala etc.; the name that echoes in great mountains; and the name that is mingled in the waters of great rivers.

Holy mind. How can King George's name be mingled in Yamuna and Ganga?

If we believe in said things in newspapers(British press of the time) and do not analyse for our own understanding then there is never going to be any resolution of the conflicts in our minds that have been there and will be there manifesting as the conflicts of the world and amplifying them.

Namah Rabindranath

Om Namah Shivaya may there be understanding with your grace.

atanu
14 March 2009, 03:26 AM
It should be known that the song "Jana Gana Mana" has been enshrined in the annals of Theosophical Society and has been published as an example of Tattva Bodha.

Sadhvi Rithambara et al., are mistaken. They don't know. It is also painful for me to realise directly that those who have not even read/heard/understood 'Jana Gana Mana', will protect India and Hinduism?

Om Namah Shivaya

devotee
14 March 2009, 03:45 AM
Namaste TTA,

What Atanu says is correct & I echo similar feelings. It is not that I have not heard this malicious rumour of our National Anthem being written for King George but IMO it is just a rumour spread by those who wanted to make Vande Mataram the National Anthem. I don't want to support any of the two parties here. The love for my country doesn't get affected a bit whether I sing Vande Mataram or Jana-Gana-Mana.

If India has to survive, it must adopt the great Sanatan Dharma philosophy of accepting everyone & respect every other religion. The politics of hate has been played a little too much by the Saffron-leaders ... & let me tell you it has not helped Hindus ... it has only created Vote Banks for them. What did India achieve after demolition of a delapidated structure called Babri Masjid ? We witnessed carnage from both sides in Gujarat & other parts of the country. Many moderate Muslims got alienated & fell to the propoganda of LeT & likes. This led to more of serial blasts at several places. The final blow came in the form of Mumbai attack which could not have taken place without help of local sympathisers.

Don't be in illusion that we can "rule" over Muslims by force in India ... we will land in the same situation what Pakistan is in. India will be saoked in innocent blood of poor Hindus & Muslims. Do you think that we can just do away with 12 Crores of Muslims ? And even if we do (?) that, will it be good for the country & the Hindus ?

I remember my Mother used to take me to Dargah of a Muslim Saint when I was a Child. I remember being given shelter along with my other 6 freinds whole night by one Muslim family (whom we met in the train we were going) in Kolkata when our well known Hindu family didn't open door due tro unknown reasons.

There are good people & bad people in all religions. I am afraid, you have fallen victim to propaganda being spread by Hindu extremists.

Let's not discuss politics here. We are here for Spirituality & let's concentrate on that alone.

OM

atanu
14 March 2009, 04:24 AM
Namaste TTA,
Let's not discuss politics here. We are here for Spirituality & let's concentrate on that alone.

OM

Namaste Devotee,

I agree fully.

I have great respect for Vajpayee Ji (and also for Advani Ji as of now). Indian saints have amplified again and again :Truth, only the Truth, and nothing but the Truth. There is a story in Satapatha Brahmana, where a student was extolling Gautama rishi, who chided the student by reminding: Truth, only the Truth, and nothing but the Truth.


In this light, I wished that TTA, irrespective of political faith, may check for himself what 'Jana Gana Mana' stands for. It stands for 'Bhagya Vidhata' of all Jana and Gana. It stands for Shiva. It stands for the Universal God, controller of all minds and controller of destiny of all. And in India, from south to north and from west to east, everyone chants His name alone. His name echoes in mountains and is the rhapsody of the rivers. This song is an exemplification of the Indian value of 'Truth and only Truth', through the praise of that Truth --one and only controller.

If TTA realises this I will be glad.

Om

atanu
14 March 2009, 05:02 AM
Below is the equally divine Vande mAtaram


My obeisance to Mother India!
With flowing beneficial waters
Filled with choicest fruits
With Sandal scented winds
Green with the harvest
O mother! My obeisance to you!
Ecstatic moonlit nights
The plants blooming with flowers
Sweet speaker of sweet languages
Fount of blessings,
Mother, I salute you!

----------------
There is no need for a controversy. Both songs have their own place. What is is. I believe that singing one is also singing the other. Believe it.

atanu
23 March 2011, 10:26 AM
Does it not irk you that Vande Mataram is not the National Anthem of India because Gandhi & Nehru capitulated to the Islamic minority's objection of deifying the motherland (Bharat Mata) and demanded that Jana Gana Mana be taken as the National Anthem although it was composed by Tagore as a welcoming address to King George???

Hello TTA

Whether you still tune in or not, it will be proper to record a fact which I noticed just now.

In "Jana Gana Mana":


In the third stanza, Tagore addresses the Bharatabahagybidhata as ‘Chirasarathi’, the perpetual charioteer. How can a mortal king be perpetual ?


In the fourth stanza Tagore writes, “Du:swapne aatanke raksha korile anke snehamaoyee tumi mata.”


(In nightmares and at times of scare you protected (the people) by giving shelter in your lap, o affectionate mother)



How can the king be conceived and addressed in feminine as a mother? Tagore calls the guide of India’s destiny both as masculine (Bharatabhagyabidhata) and feminine (snehamayee maata) entity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana_(the_complete_song)


...

yajvan
23 March 2011, 05:43 PM
 
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté atanu,


Nice to see you posting.


praṇām

kd gupta
24 March 2011, 12:31 AM
Hello TTA

Whether you still tune in or not, it will be proper to record a fact which I noticed just now.

In "Jana Gana Mana":


In the third stanza, Tagore addresses the Bharatabahagybidhata as ‘Chirasarathi’, the perpetual charioteer. How can a mortal king be perpetual ?


In the fourth stanza Tagore writes, “Du:swapne aatanke raksha korile anke snehamaoyee tumi mata.”


(In nightmares and at times of scare you protected (the people) by giving shelter in your lap, o affectionate mother)



How can the king be conceived and addressed in feminine as a mother? Tagore calls the guide of India’s destiny both as masculine (Bharatabhagyabidhata) and feminine (snehamayee maata) entity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana_(the_complete_song)



...

Namaste and welcome back Atanuji
Your information is like wikileaks to us .
thanks and pl continue .

devotee
24 March 2011, 05:00 AM
Hello TTA

Whether you still tune in or not, it will be proper to record a fact which I noticed just now.

In "Jana Gana Mana":


In the third stanza, Tagore addresses the Bharatabahagybidhata as ‘Chirasarathi’, the perpetual charioteer. How can a mortal king be perpetual ?


In the fourth stanza Tagore writes, “Du:swapne aatanke raksha korile anke snehamaoyee tumi mata.”


(In nightmares and at times of scare you protected (the people) by giving shelter in your lap, o affectionate mother)



How can the king be conceived and addressed in feminine as a mother? Tagore calls the guide of India’s destiny both as masculine (Bharatabhagyabidhata) and feminine (snehamayee maata) entity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_Mana_(the_complete_song)



...


Welcome back, Atanu ! We miss your such insightful and informative posts. I hope we would be able to see your posts more frequently.

OM

Rationalist
31 March 2011, 09:29 PM
I agree with TTA.