What Caste Are You?

[mblova]

Since i am new to the forums i wanted to put up a poll but i dont know how so im just going to start a thread.

What Caste are you from?
Has it ever had an effect on your life and did your parents influence you to do the things expected of the caste and marry within.

Im just very curious to see where people are from on this board and use this as an introduction.

[satay]

I am a shudra born in a Kashtriya family. You?

[mblova]

Kashmiri brahmin or son of kp pandit family and a little punjabi brahmin in me. basically im 50-50

[satay]

nice to see another punjabi here. :)

[Ablaze]

Can't answer. Like many of the westerners on this forum, I was born outside the caste system. :o

[mblova]

Yup :) I'm Half Kashmiri and Half punjabi. Good mix to have.

Ahhh a westerner. Its good to know some "whitefolk" if i may say are converting?? right??

If so can you just gimmie some background on yourself? I'm just very curious as i know of a guru who is a westener who converted here on the east coast.

[orlando]

Can't answer. Like many of the westerners on this forum, I was born outside the caste system. :o
Neither I can answer!:)

[Ablaze]

Ahhh a westerner. Its good to know some "whitefolk" if i may say are converting?? right??

Yeah, I am a white convert to Sanatana Dharma. :Cool:


If so can you just gimmie some background on yourself? I'm just very curious as i know of a guru who is a westener who converted here on the east coast.

well, I'll try to give a brief summary. :)

At 17 I had a spiritual awakening, where I realized I was not this body, I was an eternal soul. Although I had believed this in my head growing up, I never had any profound realization of it. When this realization came to me, my life and outlook totally changed. I realized everything in this world was temporal, and I should dedicate myself to Self-Realization and God-Realization.

I started studying many different metaphysical books, religions, etc. I realized that the exoteric dogmas of the Abrahamic religions were not the eternal truths that I was realizing within. Although at first I only had a basic realization that I was a soul (not this body), my understanding advanced, and I came to understand karma, the pre-existence of the soul, reincarnation, Samsara, etc. I also learned about the astral/causal planes, our subtle bodies, chakras, Kundalini, and so on.

I found one tradition brought all this esoteric knowledge together, and that is Sanatana Dharma. All this metaphysical knowledge was spoken about by Hindu Gurus in their books I was reading. Many of the non-Hindu writers were speaking about these same things in their books, but not with the depth and realization of eastern masters.

Also a big difference is non-Vedic traditions often do not emphasize moksha. They may speak about reincarnation, or karma, but nothing is ever mentioned how liberation can be attained.

Reading the universal message of the Bhagavad Gita was life-changing. When I read the Gita I realized it was talking to me, and all incarnated Jivas. Following the directions of Sri Krishna, was what I needed to do to make spiritual advancement. It had nothing to do with whether I was indian, italian, etc.. the Atman has no race.

You'll find several westerners, who have come to some inner realization and are karmically inclined have been drawn to Sanatana Dharma in the past 100 yrs. Many Gurus from various Hindu sects, have come to the west (or westerners have travelled to India) and initiated western devotees - from Swami Vivekananda, Sri Yogananda, Shree Maa, and the list goes on.

anyway, I don't want to ramble.. but I've spent over 10 yrs on the spiritual path so far. That's a little of my background above. ;)

[satay]

Yeah, I am a white convert to Sanatana Dharma. :Cool:


You mean you are HINDU. :)
There is no such thing as white hindu or westerner hindu. If you follow sanatana dharma you are hindu. Period. :1cool:



well, I'll try to give a brief summary. :)



Your story is very inspiring indeed. I love reading these types of stories of personal realizations.

For me personally, 'hinduism', karma etc. are all inborn as if they are in my genes...even when I was an atheist I still didn't renounce karma/reincarnation. I only renounced GOD. This feeling of 'hinduism' is not in my head or not even in my heart but I feel like I was born with it. (is that possible?)

But I always wonder how the journey of transformation starts in a person who is born outside of india, outside of the culture and totally outside of the 'dharmic' ideas. There must be something inside of us that we are born with (I mean all 'hindus') all over the world that no matter where we are born, somehow when the karmic forces are in line that we are awaken to our destiny and realize hey, wait a minute...I am not this body!

:)

[Sudarshan]

At 17 I had a spiritual awakening, where I realized I was not this body, I was an eternal soul. Although I had believed this in my head growing up, I never had any profound realization of it. When this realization came to me, my life and outlook totally changed. I realized everything in this world was temporal, and I should dedicate myself to Self-Realization and God-Realization.


What did you mean by spiritual awakening? Is it just used as a metaphor or as some kind of real out of body experience?



I started studying many different metaphysical books, religions, etc. I realized that the exoteric dogmas of the Abrahamic religions were not the eternal truths that I was realizing within. Although at first I only had a basic realization that I was a soul (not this body), my understanding advanced, and I came to understand karma, the pre-existence of the soul, reincarnation, Samsara, etc. I also learned about the astral/causal planes, our subtle bodies, chakras, Kundalini, and so on.

I found one tradition brought all this esoteric knowledge together, and that is Sanatana Dharma. All this metaphysical knowledge was spoken about by Hindu Gurus in their books I was reading. Many of the non-Hindu writers were speaking about these same things in their books, but not with the depth and realization of eastern masters.


Cool. Jesus spoke quite a bit of vedanta, for which he was misunderstood and crucified. Here we never crucify people even when we disagree with each other.



Also a big difference is non-Vedic traditions often do not emphasize moksha. They may speak about reincarnation, or karma, but nothing is ever mentioned how liberation can be attained.


Moksha is emphasised by all religions, they call it by different names. Christianity is at perfect peace with say the principles of Srivaishnavism ( I had a long dialoge with some Christians on this), because of considerable emphasis on accepting one's own inability to work for salvation and falling prostrate at God's feet. But I found the Christian unable to come out of what we call as nAmarUpa, name and form. Except that particular affinity to Jesus, Christianity can be at peace with some sections of Hinduism like Srivaishnavism. But too much emphasis on the death and reserruction of Jesus and how only the beleif in this myth can lead to moksha, makes Christianity incompatible with all other religions.

[Znanna]

I'm a redhead :)


ZN

[Ablaze]

What did you mean by spiritual awakening? Is it just used as a metaphor or as some kind of real out of body experience?

I have had OBEs, but they were not associated with my "spiritual awakening". I mean, I had a sudden shift in awareness and outlook. Before that, I was a normal 17 yr. old, just thinking of worldly pleasures and interests, when suddenly I had an inner spiritual awakening, and started to see the bigger cosmic picture. I realized I was only going to be here for a short time, and what is my eternal existence, my connection to God, etc.. I became very interested in spiritual matters.


Here we never crucify people even when we disagree with each other.

That's good to know. ;)


Moksha is emphasised by all religions, they call it by different names.

Well, what I meant by Moksha is liberation from the wheel of Samsaric existence. Many religions deny reincarnation. And some that do teach reincarnation, like the neo-pagan religions, for example, do not teach how to escape Samsaric existence (or that one should even desire to). My point was, of the traditions I studied, none gave as much spiritual knowledge on these matters as the Hindu sects. Yeah, there are some big differences between the Hindu sects (Advaita vs. Dvaita, etc), but all Hindu sects acknowledge Samsara and Moksha, and talk about escaping Samsaric delusions.

[Proud Hindu]

Since i am new to the forums i wanted to put up a poll but i dont know how so im just going to start a thread.

What Caste are you from?
Has it ever had an effect on your life and did your parents influence you to do the things expected of the caste and marry within.

Im just very curious to see where people are from on this board and use this as an introduction.

Bengali Kshatriya...

But why does it matter bro? :)

IMO, the caste system is a blemish on India's otherwise glorious history. Maybe it started out with a noble purpose, but its been corrupted to the point that it would be best to forget that it ever existed...

[mblova]

Ehh, Im just very curious. Thats all.

[Parnah Dhanika]

Born Brahmin :(

My mentality is no diff though..

[Shriyash21]

Brahmin.

[Skillganon]

People who believe in caste system are deluded. No offense meant.
To eye of God everyone is the same, but the one who is closer to God, in his righteouseness act and righteouse devotion, right belief is above the rest in sight of the creator.

Peace.

Skill.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Skill,

Some humans either deny or are completely ignorant of God.
Some humans have faith in God but no certain knowledge of God.
Some humans have knowledge of God, gained from another who has actual experience of God.
And some humans actually have personal experience of God.

From the absolute perspective of God, of course the entire Creation is equal; but from man’s perspective, how can such an objective recognition of certain degrees or shades or castes of spiritual discernment in humans as they found in everyday life be considered as “delusion”?

And if (as you say) one who is closer to God is above the rest in God’s sight, is this not merely replacing a stepwise system of spiritual caste with a sliding scale of relative nearness to God?

And surely the common Islamic equation of Muslim = Brahmin (i.e. one who knows God) and non-Muslim (or Infidel) = Shudra (i.e. one who does not know God) represents a high degree of caste discrimination that leaves no room for the "middle ground" of the vast majority of faithful devotees who are coming to know God!

[TruthSeeker]

People who believe in caste system are deluded. No offense meant.
To eye of God everyone is the same, but the one who is closer to God, in his righteouseness act and righteouse devotion, right belief is above the rest in sight of the creator.

Peace.

Skill.

What is "right belief" and how does one verify it?

[Shriyash21]

People who believe in caste system are deluded. No offense meant. lol, and those who dont believe in it, are they all enlightened? :rolleyes:

plus i thought you are born into a caste,... you dont one day start believing you are Shudra or Brahmin, but i may be wrong.

Of course, knowing Brahma, thats a different matter, and thats the one thing that really counts.

[Shriyash21]

To eye of God everyone is the same, but the one who is closer to God, in his righteouseness act and righteouse devotion, right belief is above the rest in sight of the creator.
Not very original, and not rightly worded either. :coffee:

[Skillganon]

And if (as you say) one who is closer to God is above the rest in God’s sight, is this not merely replacing a stepwise system of spiritual caste with a sliding scale of relative nearness to God?

And surely the common Islamic equation of Muslim = Brahmin (i.e. one who knows God) and non-Muslim (or Infidel) = Shudra (i.e. one who does not know God) represents a high degree of caste discrimination that leaves no room for the "middle ground" of the vast majority of faithful devotees who are coming to know God!

first briefly muslim means the one who submits to allah in Islam.
One who submits to his will is closer, not in a physical sense but spiritual.

Of course one who does not submit to his will and follows his own desire and sins is not closer to God than the one who obeys, but we do not quarell over as to which muslim is closer to God or not, because this is what allah decides, and what we struggle for.

Secondly anyone can become a muslim. One does not have to be born to it. The lowest of the caste in one system can become closer to God, in piety.(muslim don't have any caste system).

I am not sure if this is any relevance to this topic but What does infidel means?

Peace Skill.

[Skillganon]

What is "right belief" and how does one verify it?

It has to make sense. One has to start with "the concept of God". This migth help you towards it.

[Skillganon]

lol, and those who dont believe in it, are they all enlightened? :rolleyes:
In that topic they are.



plus i thought you are born into a caste,... you dont one day start believing you are Shudra or Brahmin, but i may be wrong.
Caste system is relative to one minds. Remove the concept of caste system from ones mind, and one will notice that one is not born into a caste system.[/quote]



Of course, knowing Brahma, thats a different matter, and thats the one thing that really counts.
Yes, and no. One can know brahma, and at the same time knows other things that is full of conjectures and a delusion to the mind.

[Skillganon]

Not very original, and not rightly worded either. :coffee:

Nope, but sometime people need a reminder, and their is no harm in that.

Peace

Skill.

[satay]

Secondly anyone can become a muslim.
Peace Skill.

Anyone doesn't have to become a hindu because everyone born on this planet is a hindu by default. People belong to other religions because of the dogma of their environment.

[Skillganon]

Anyone doesn't have to become a hindu because everyone born on this planet is a hindu by default. People belong to other religions because of the dogma of their environment.

We have a similiar concept.

"According to the famous hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), all children are born in a state of Islam (deen al-fitrah) but their parents and society turn them away from their pure natural state into something else"

Peace Skill.

[TruthSeeker]

We have a similiar concept.

"According to the famous hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), all children are born in a state of Islam (deen al-fitrah) but their parents and society turn them away from their pure natural state into something else"

Peace Skill.

So why are some people born in good conditions conducive to spiritual growth and why some aren't? And what happens to those who have been led away into wickedness due to such poor circumstances?

[Shriyash21]

In that topic they are.
When a Hindu or a Buddhist, or a Jain says 'enlightenment',understand that he dosent mean the meaning non-hindus assign to it.
But then again, its not our fault, because in the english language, the is no word for Moksha or Nirvana.


Caste system is relative to one minds. Remove the concept of caste system from ones mind, and one will notice that one is not born into a caste system.
So, following the same logic,I guess next thing you will say is human races are all in the mind.

So, according to you, just "remove the concept from your mind", and voila there is no race either, and no skin colours, like black, brown, yellow and white.!!
They are all in the mind too, actually all the skin colour is the same too, it is delusion on our part that we see colours, actually it is only in the mind.

Indeed, therefore there is no difference whatsoever between anyone at all!! Genius.:coffee:

Very easy to preach, isint it. :blah:

[Shriyash21]

....... right belief is above the rest in sight of the creator.


but 'Skill', you still havent answered TruthSeeker's question, your reply is as vague and uninspiring as any i have seen, and does nothing to hide your true intentions here.Naughty boy.:crazy:

[Skillganon]

So, following the same logic,I guess next thing you will say is human races are all in the mind.

So, according to you, just "remove the concept from your mind", and voila there is no race either, and no skin colours, like black, brown, yellow and white.!!
They are all in the mind too, actually all the skin colour is the same too, it is delusion on our part that we see colours, actually it is only in the mind.

Indeed, therefore there is no difference whatsoever between anyone at all!! Genius.:coffee:

Very easy to preach, isint it. :blah:

Here is the flaw in ones logic. Caste system is a system of social order whom man created. Than man observe it by saying I am born into that caste, e.t.c Remove this caste system from ones own mind. You are of the same people of race.

Different Race, is not a caste system or what man created. It is observable, that we have different colour e.t.c.
One can't say you are not born partly of that race.

Here this might help you.

"O Mankind: We created you from a male and a female; and made you into tribes and nations that you may get to know each other. and verily, most honored before God is the most virtuous." Qur’an (49:13)

Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) asserted saying:

"Arab is not more privileged than non-Arab, nor white than black. Spiritual excellence and true piety is the only distinction amongst humans recognised by Allah."

After the Prophet's victory in Mekkah, a proud self-seeking group of Arabs claimed privilege for their tongue and race. To them he (PBUH) said:

"Thanks be to Allah that by the sublime doctrines of Islam He has freed you from the times of ignorance, and stripped off pride, conceit and power-lust. Know now that in the Courts of God only two groups exist. The group of the righteous who are precious in God's eyes : and the group of the sinful who hang their heads in shame."

Peace!

Skill


P.S TruthSeeker, give me time, I will answer you, be patient.

[satay]

Not to put a negative point on christianity or islam but I have noticed that missionaries from both religions like to quote a lot from their 'holy books'. Normally these types of quotes don't mean anything to dharma adherents for a couple of reasons:
a. we don't belive in your holy books
b. we have been instructed by GOD that holy books and holy men only take you so far and ultimately man himself has to rise above the holy books
c. because of the childish logic: why is this correct? because my holy books says so. this type of logic satisfies children only (I mean spiritually)

No offence meant. Just an observation and my comments on it.

[satay]

Here this might help you.


namaste skill.
I am convinced that what your quoting of the quran here will not help any hindu including shyrish21 as we don't believe in the authority of quran.

[sm78]

People who believe in caste system are deluded. No offense meant.


Man! But I used to think that those people who swear by a medivial terrorism manual and think that by blowing themselves up along with a few other humans will get 72 virgins from God in heaven and will have fun for eternity, ARE DELUDED.

Or, those guys who believe that a desert ghost claiming to be judge on "a final dooms day" is GOD, ARE DELUDED

Or, those guys who after a medivial serial murderer and self styled prophet
think that world is inhabitated by 2 species ~ believers and non-believers, ARE DELUDED

But you give a new perspective ...

But FYI caste system does not change us in the eyes of God. [b]Unlike[b] in your case we think all of us at various points of time will be one with God.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

*To Admin:

This is singhi ... I never thought of using another Id to post on this forum...but this is a stuation at hands...pls ban this ID after this.

post edited by satay: please read the site rules; insults of other members are not allowed on the forum.

[TruthSeeker]

a. we don't belive in your holy books.


We can take any holy book(if it appears holy) to the extent they dont oppose vedic beliefs. If the vedas say that the soul is divine, and others claim we are not so - it maybe rejected outright. Good points may always be taken. All religions have some value in that they encourage some morals and ethics. If God is like a TV, Dharma provides both the screen and the circuitry, while religions like Islam provide only the screen - with no circuitry. Hence both bible and quran are more like some stories, history and moral guidelines with no philosophical depth and wisdom we find in the upanishads and texts like the Gita. Vedantins can use their 'vedic' knowledge to see how the circuitry is indeed provided in these books in a subtle way.



c. because of the childish logic: why is this correct? because my holy books says so. this type of logic satisfies children only (I mean spiritually)


All are children spiritually because even the average Hindu cannot rise above this logic in the absence of more than the book knowledge. The Hindu 'child' understands the need to transcend books but the other 'child' is content with the book.

[TruthSeeker]

Man! But I used to think that those people who swear by a medivial terrorism manual and think that by blowing themselves up along with a few other humans will get 72 virgins from God in heaven and will have fun for eternity, ARE DELUDED.

Or, those guys who believe that a desert ghost claiming to be judge on "a final dooms day" is GOD, ARE DELUDED

Or, those guys who after a medivial serial murderer and self styled prophet
think that world is inhabitated by 2 species ~ believers and non-believers, ARE DELUDED

But you give a new perspective ...

But FYI caste system does not change us in the eyes of God. [b]Unlike[b] in your case we think all of us at various points of time will be one with God.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

*To Admin:

This is singhi ... I never thought of using another Id to post on this forum...but this is a stuation at hands...pls ban this ID after this.

post edited by satay: please read the site rules; insults of other members are not allowed on the forum.

Suggest you to post something more refined. When trying to put down others, you shouln't look like one yourself. That is self-refutation. Generalization of religion with terrorism, and insult on prophets are better avoided by Dharma followers.

[Skillganon]

Not to put a negative point on christianity or islam but I have noticed that missionaries from both religions like to quote a lot from their 'holy books'. Normally these types of quotes don't mean anything to dharma adherents for a couple of reasons:
a. we don't belive in your holy books
b. we have been instructed by GOD that holy books and holy men only take you so far and ultimately man himself has to rise above the holy books
c. because of the childish logic: why is this correct? because my holy books says so. this type of logic satisfies children only (I mean spiritually)

No offence meant. Just an observation and my comments on it.

Salam (peace) satay.

I am aware peopl here do not believe in the Quran. Thus if one do not believe it, than it should not harm anyone, but we can come to common term between each other and learn from each other.


namaste skill.
I am convinced that what your quoting of the quran here will not help any hindu including shyrish21 as we don't believe in the authority of quran.
Peace. Is their any harm in what I quoted. I did it so to get a point across. If it can't help them, it surely can't harm them.



Man! But I used to think that those people who swear by a medivial terrorism manual and think that by blowing themselves up along with a few other humans will get 72 virgins from God in heaven and will have fun for eternity, ARE DELUDED.

Or, those guys who believe that a desert ghost claiming to be judge on "a final dooms day" is GOD, ARE DELUDED

Or, those guys who after a medivial serial murderer and self styled prophet
think that world is inhabitated by 2 species ~ believers and non-believers, ARE DELUDED

But you give a new perspective ...

But FYI caste system does not change us in the eyes of God. [b]Unlike[b] in your case we think all of us at various points of time will be one with God.

Agree that terrorism is wrong, but Terrorism us not secluded to muslim, but all other faith, unless one think that otherwise, which is not my problem.

What you are doing is associating terrorism with Islam/ or all muslim for couple of reason, which is no point in discussing it here but maybe suited better in the politic section.


while religions like Islam provide only the screen - with no circuitry. Hence both bible and quran are more like some stories, history and moral guidelines with no philosophical depth and wisdom we find in the upanishads and texts like the Gita. Vedantins can use their 'vedic' knowledge to see how the circuitry is indeed provided in these books in a subtle way.

What one said is relative to ones own knowledge/understanding of Islam.

Peace.

Skill.

[TruthSeeker]

What one said is relative to ones own knowledge/understanding of Islam.


No offense intended, but could you please explain what philosophy is there is quran? Something like the comprehensive model of evolution, a systematic Yogic practice, various kinds of Yoga, analysis of soul and God, Karma theory etc. Quran and Bible, according to Hindus could at the best be considered a moral guidline or way of living for a theist.

If you think there is indepth philosophy in quran, you are welcome to post in on the Islam forum. We can analyse as to what it has compared with vedas.

[satay]

may be we can move some of this stuff to the Islam forum? I think we are trolling this thread.
I am also very interested in listening to the islamic side. Most of what I know is from media and of course that is all propaganda...muslims blowing their brains out in the name of allah...that to peace loving hindus looks strange.
Skill, we are looking to you to present a better picture. Obviously, we are not going to convert to islam but at least we might come to appreciate something common among the different philosophies?

[Skillganon]

No offense intended, but could you please explain what philosophy is there is quran? Something like the comprehensive model of evolution, a systematic Yogic practice, various kinds of Yoga, analysis of soul and God, Karma theory etc. Quran and Bible, according to Hindus could at the best be considered a moral guidline or way of living for a theist.

If you think there is indepth philosophy in quran, you are welcome to post in on the Islam forum. We can analyse as to what it has compared with vedas.


may be we can move some of this stuff to the Islam forum? I think we are trolling this thread.
I am also very interested in listening to the islamic side. Most of what I know is from media and of course that is all propaganda...muslims blowing their brains out in the name of allah...that to peace loving hindus looks strange.
Skill, we are looking to you to present a better picture. Obviously, we are not going to convert to islam but at least we might come to appreciate something common among the different philosophies?

I agree. I will, but one has to be patience.

Peace.

SKill.

[satay]

Salam (peace) satay.

I am aware peopl here do not believe in the Quran. Thus if one do not believe it, than it should not harm anyone, but we can come to common term between each other and learn from each other.


Peace. Is their any harm in what I quoted. I did it so to get a point across. If it can't help them, it surely can't harm them.
Peace.

Skill.

Normally we hindus quote our scriptures among each other just to provide a reference etc.
I personally don't see any value in quoting the scripture to those who don't believe in it but you can continue to do it if it pleases you.

[satay]

I agree. I will, but one has to be patience.

Peace.

SKill.

:) we are too excited to have an 'outsider' on our forum!;)

[satay]

Or, those guys who believe that a desert ghost claiming to be judge on "a final dooms day" is GOD, ARE DELUDED


Actually I think that those who connect the caste system to Hinduism or sanatana dharma are deluded. This is just like us thinking that a muslim is a terriost ready to blow his brains out. This is all due to propaganda of media spread by deluded people.



*To Admin:

This is singhi ... I never thought of using another Id to post on this forum...but this is a stuation at hands...pls ban this ID after this.


I don't see why admin should ban your id. Join us in the islam forum but of course, the rules of the site apply equally to everyone here.

[Skillganon]

:) we are too excited to have an 'outsider' on our forum!;)

No problem.

I do know not all "people" believes in the caste system, nor do they propogate. I am sure it has nothing to do with ones religion.

Peace.

[satay]

No problem.

I do know not all "people" believes in the caste system, nor do they propogate. I am sure it has nothing to do with ones religion.

Peace.

'Caste system' is a social thing in India that has nothing to do with religion. Though this is something that missionaries like to attack right away and point out the evils of this social problem sometimes those who attack it are hypocrites and don't want to look in their own front yard first.

Regardless of the rhetoric of missionaries and all the nonsense indian are NOT going to be intimidated and ditch the caste system. Before we do, the rest of the world should open up their borders and get rid of their own 'class' system.

But anyway, it's just like muslims blowing their brains out in the name of allah has nothing to do with islam along the same lines hindu caste system has nothing to do with hinduism.

[sm78]

Suggest you to post something more refined. When trying to put down others, you shouln't look like one yourself. That is self-refutation.
Namaste Truthseeker,

I'm generally not bothered to appear refined or look different in this situation. That would be mere attachement to ideals (which by their very nature are not univerally true in all circumstances).

Given the situation doing what needs to be done is more important.

I don't believe that there is any value in spending time to discuss pros and cons of philosophy with a follower of Koran. He attacked first and I'll slap back (may be much harder than his initial attack).


Generalization of religion with terrorism, and insult on prophets are better avoided by Dharma followers.
Btw, none of the contents of my post are baseless ~ they can be argued point to point from koran, hadith and history (had done to some extent once). Yes some dharma adherents put a logic that truth can be sacrificed so that we look better. I don't adhere to such self-defeating ideology.

[saidevo]

The Caste System Should Stay!

"Are the Hindus going to repeat the missionary propaganda and deny the strengths of their own civilization or are they going to understand the institution of caste dispassionately?"

-- an article with a refreshingly different and positive perspective on the caste system at http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1155676617

[TruthSeeker]

No problem.

I do know not all "people" believes in the caste system, nor do they propogate. I am sure it has nothing to do with ones religion.

Peace.

Probably the caste system can be wound up as soon as religions like Islam cease to discriminate between muslims and non muslims, allow non muslims to build temples and worship in Islamic states, stop threatening people with paradise and hell, and so on...can you tell us if these are all non discrimination, then what else is it?

There are too many views on the Hindu caste system, and in all likelyhood it is a valid scientific classification, though we just dont know the basis due to passage of time. Just like muslims dont know why a devout Hindu is disallowed to sing Jaya Durge in public in an Islamic street. What would happen if I shout "Allah down down" in a muslim nation? Most likely I wont see the next sunrise. No such thing will happen in India where both Islamists and Christian missionaries( with government protection!) have never ceased to abuse Hindu gods and goddesses.

[Skillganon]

If one read my post I said "I am sure caste system has nothing to do with one religion". In opposed to not being sure.

I did not mean to imply that hinduism has anything to do with it, but people may. One cannot Judge a religion solely based on the adherant of the faith, since they may not be perfect and do things that is not accordance with their religion.

Peace.

Skill.

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Skill,

A Brahmana is one who fully submits to the will of Brahma (the ONE GOD, by whatever name). And perfect submission to the will of God assumes true knowledge of divine intentions. One who submits to God’s will (and surely there are degrees of submission and correct understanding) is relatively closer to God (not in any physical sense, of course).

Ultimately (in the sight of God), all Souls or Jivas are absolutely equal in divinity; although, in each manifest mortal individual or incarnation, that shining Light is variously shrouded by a dark veil of Ignorance (Avidya or Maya) ~ i.e. ignorance of immortality and eternal union with the one God in perfect heaven. Note that Maya also means Mother (we are all born in ignorance of the Truth), and that explains why Islamic women were originally advised (taking all scripture as necessarily being literal truth) to cover themselves with a veil!

And of course there should never be any quarrel over which Jivatma (individual soul) is closer to the Paramatma (God)! True judgment is in the hands of Lord Yama, and that Truth is what we strive for in ourselves, but ultimate Truth can never be imposed by any mortal.

And ANYONE can become a Hindu (of course, in truth, every Jiva already is) ~ one does not have to be born to it. Surely (unless there is some mental disability), even the most ignorant individuals may be drawn towards correct understanding and submission to the will of God ~ quite rapidly if their faith is strong.

And, an Infidel is anyone who is not truly faithful, or unfaithful to the Truth.

So, which caste are you, Skill ~ Brahmana or Infidel, or perhaps some stage in between (which in Hindu terms would be approximated to the intermediate degrees of Kshatriya or Vaishya).

[TruthSeeker]

Namaste Truthseeker,

I'm generally not bothered to appear refined or look different in this situation. That would be mere attachement to ideals (which by their very nature are not univerally true in all circumstances).

Given the situation doing what needs to be done is more important.

I don't believe that there is any value in spending time to discuss pros and cons of philosophy with a follower of Koran. He attacked first and I'll slap back (may be much harder than his initial attack).


Btw, none of the contents of my post are baseless ~ they can be argued point to point from koran, hadith and history (had done to some extent once). Yes some dharma adherents put a logic that truth can be sacrificed so that we look better. I don't adhere to such self-defeating ideology.

You could try to prove that the "final immutable revelation to mankind" is just a

1. A corrupt form of Dharma.
2. An improper subset of Dharma.
3. A mixture of several "Adharmic" religions of its same kind.
4. A subset of Dharma with nothing unique.

depending on your intentions.

However, the "I don't believe that there is any value in spending time to discuss pros and cons of philosophy with a follower of Koran" attitude leaves no room for discussion, except grabbing a gun. Good luck.

I am not sacrificing any truth anywhere. I am only trying to break any bias or prejudice or unwanted hatred, with which nothing productive can be achieved.

[sm78]

However, the "I don't believe that there is any value in spending time to discuss pros and cons of philosophy with a follower of Koran" attitude leaves no room for discussion, except grabbing a gun. Good luck.
Thank you. I agree with my ideas I would do better not to post in a "disscussion" forum on Islam. But mine was only a reply to his flat post "Those who believe in caste system are deluded".


I am only trying to break any bias or prejudice or unwanted hatred, with which nothing productive can be achieved.
Best of luck on that. It couldn't be achieved in over 1 millenium, and present circumstances indicate it is far more unlikely now than it was ever before.

[satay]

We have a similiar concept.

"According to the famous hadith of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), all children are born in a state of Islam (deen al-fitrah) but their parents and society turn them away from their pure natural state into something else"

Peace Skill.

I can not say for sure but your concept doesn't sound the same to me. See we are not making a assertion We are stating a FACT as sarabhanga has already explained.

What you are saying if true then why do you 'convert' and what's the need for anyone to 'become' a muslim?

[satay]

Best of luck on that. It couldn't be achieved in over 1 millenium, and present circumstances indicate it is far more unlikely now than it was ever before.

Fair enough. That doesn't mean we can not try though.

Hindus have always been peaceful. It is in our blood.

We accomodated the pharsies, jews, christians, muslims, buddhists and anything else there is in the world. The long arms of Sanatana dharma are always ready to embrace 'all' philosophies. The only problem we have often been paid back with a slap and some idiots dancing on our heads...this is because we forgot that while we are peace lovers and that's what our dharma dictates and expects of us at the same time we need to be aware of our 'duty' and defeat the adharmic forces (not directed at anyone in particular here) no matter whereever they are...on the net or at grassroot level...

[sm78]

Have you wondered why we cannot accomodate Nazis, communists, atheists etc in Sanatana Dharma??

Yes we can accomodate many, but not all...why??

You can have a look at the commentary we are having on Isa Upanisad, it will philosophically clear my point before you.
http://p068.ezboard.com/fsrivaishnavismfrm11.showMessage?topicID=16.topic

[Skillganon]

Guyz thanks for you comment, Maybe may statement "people who believe in the caste system are deluded" was not the best of statement I made and I should of posed it in a better way.
So my apologies if I hurt anyones feeling the intention was not there.

Peace.

Skill.

I will get back to answering some of your post in other thread soon, as I am in the middle of doing something.

See you soon Guyz.

[TruthSeeker]

What you are saying if true then why do you 'convert' and what's the need for anyone to 'become' a muslim?

All religions that lack the law of Karma are forced to classify people into two broad groups, believer and disbeliever, with former getting saved and the latter getting doomed. All these religions have some characteristic features like heaven, hell, A egoist and jealous God, strictly monotheistic, absence of any Yogic content, dogmatic beliefs etc. All these religions will also put God somewhere far out in the sky where you go through a "plane" after death, and there is no chance of knowing anything prior to death. Only certain VIPs of God, having some private channels of communication can reach out to God on the behalf of others, and you have to submit to these messengers. That is why they 'convert' lest you should end up in hell for having wrong beliefs and also wrongly preaching others.

[Skillganon]

I can not say for sure but your concept doesn't sound the same to me. See we are not making a assertion We are stating a FACT as sarabhanga has already explained.

What you are saying if true then why do you 'convert' and what's the need for anyone to 'become' a muslim?

The more appropriate term is revert.

[mblova]

Wow this discussion has gotten really heated! I like it, even though i have no idea what you guys are quoting.

[Agnideva]

I walked into the class and there was that picture of Shiva with the "om" sign in the palm like I asked about when I first arrived here. I was so captivated again and felt so much in my heart.

So, I am not sure what draws people. My friends can look at Shiva or Krishna and feel nothing. I have, like everyone here, looked at felt something in my soul, even before I knew their names. And, quite frankly I am in complete awe of the incredible brilliance and depth in Hinduism.

MG, these are no coincidences. Things are exactly as they are meant to be. You are merely continuing your unfoldment that began in previous incarnations. Birth after birth, we continue to unfold until perfection is reached.

aum namaH shivAya.