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ScottMalaysia
20 April 2009, 01:49 PM
As I was doing a round of japa tonight, I remembered that Lord Indra was jealous that the villagers of Vrindavan were worshipping Govardhana Hill and not performing the sacrifice to him. This reminded me of a passage in the Bible, and I began thinking, is the God mentioned in the Bible (specifically the Old Testament) actually Indra?

Let's think about it.

In the Ten Commandments, the first commandment is "I am the LORD thy God.....Thou shalt have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:2-3). In this chapter, God also says that He is a jealous God. In the Book of Isaiah it is further stated "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isaiah 42:8).

Let's compare this to the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sri Suta Goswami says "When Indra understood that his sacrifice had been put aside, he became furious with Nanda Mahārāja and the other cowherd men, who were accepting Kṛṣṇa as their Lord. Angry Indra sent forth the clouds of universal destruction, known as Sāḿvartaka." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10:25:1-2).

We know that the God of the Bible is jealous, as He uses that vary word to describe Himself. We see that Indra is also jealous, getting angry with Nanda Maharaja for accepting Krishna as his Lord rather than himself. Sound pretty much like Indra is saying "Thou shalt have no other gods before me".

In the Bible, God is referred to in places as the "LORD of Hosts" (YHWH tz'vaot) See 1 Samuel 4:4, . The Hebrew word tzava can mean "soldier" or "fight", so the term "LORD of Hosts" refers to God as the leader of a heavenly army.

According to Hinduism, Indra is the Vedic god of war. The Rig Veda (2:30:3) states "Fair cheeks hath Indra, Maghavan, the Victor, Lord of a great host, Stormer, strong in action." Almost the same phrase is used. It is further stated "He under whose supreme control are horses, all chariots, the villages, and cattle; He who gave being to the Sun and Morning, who leads the waters, He, O men, is Indra" (Rig Veda 2:21:7)

Indra is the god of rain and of thunder in Hinduism. He was (and possibly is still) worshipped for rain to fall and crops to grow. In the Bible, thunder is often mentioned as an attribute of God. We read in 1 Samuel 12:17 "Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and rain".

In Christianity, heaven is considered the highest realm, and God Himself is present in Heaven. In Hinduism, there is a heaven, although it is not the highest realm. But who is called the King of Heaven in Hinduism? That's right, Lord Indra!

I know that most (if not all) Hindus believe that we are all praying to the same God, but in the Bible, God strikes people dead (Leviticus 10:2), opens up the earth to swallow people alive (Numbers 16:31-33), orders the total slaughter of certain nations, e.g. the Canaanites and Amorites (Deuteronomy 20:16-17), allows the Israelites to keep women from enemy cities as plunder (Deuteronomy 20:14), allows slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), kills a man for simply steadying the Ark of the Covenant (2 Samuel 6:6-7). Does this sound like the Hindu concept of God?

Yes, Lord Krishna killed the demons, but they were wicked creatures who deserved it. Poor Uzzah only reached out his hand to steady the holy Ark of the Covenant, and God struck him dead. Lord Krishna would never allow His followers to keep women as plunder - Vedic culture says that a man must treat every woman who is not his wife as though she is his mother.

I know that God is also described as a "consuming fire" (Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29) but apart from that, I can't find any similarities between the Christian God and Agni.

What do you all think about this? Could the Bible actually be describing Indra?

dhruva023
20 April 2009, 04:17 PM
I think you have made very valid point.

atanu
21 April 2009, 12:50 PM
----and I began thinking, is the God mentioned in the Bible (specifically the Old Testament) actually Indra?

----- In the Book of Isaiah it is further stated "I am the LORD: that is my name: ---" (Isaiah 42:8).

Let's compare this to the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Sri Suta Goswami says "When Indra understood that his sacrifice had been put aside, he became furious with Nanda Mahārāja and the other cowherd men, who were accepting Kṛṣṇa as their Lord. Angry Indra sent forth the clouds of universal destruction, known as Sāḿvartaka." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 10:25:1-2).

We know that the God of the Bible is jealous, -----".

In the Bible, God is referred to in places as the "LORD of Hosts" (YHWH tz'vaot) See 1 Samuel 4:4, . The Hebrew word tzava can mean "soldier" or "fight", so the term "LORD of Hosts" refers to God as the leader of a heavenly army.

According to Hinduism, Indra is the Vedic god of war. ----
------
In Christianity, heaven is considered the highest realm, and God Himself is present in Heaven. In Hinduism, there is a heaven, although it is not the highest realm. But who is called the King of Heaven in Hinduism? That's right, Lord Indra!

I know that most (if not all) Hindus believe that we are all praying to the same God, but in the Bible, God strikes people dead (Leviticus 10:2), opens up the earth to swallow people alive (Numbers 16:31-33), orders the total slaughter of certain nations, e.g. the Canaanites and Amorites (Deuteronomy 20:16-17), allows the Israelites to keep women from enemy cities as plunder (Deuteronomy 20:14), allows slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), kills a man for simply steadying the Ark of the Covenant (2 Samuel 6:6-7). Does this sound like the Hindu concept of God?

Yes, Lord Krishna killed the demons, -----.

I know that God is also described as a "consuming fire" (Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 12:29) but apart from that, I can't find any similarities between the Christian God and Agni.

What do you all think about this? Could the Bible actually be describing Indra?

Namaste,

I do not think that it is OK to interpret scripture like this -- especially without studying in full. In Veda also, God is worshipped as Manyu - wrath, before His love can be known. In Rig Veda also, sages pray for mercy to Rudra for the mistake of worshipping other deities.

Arguing is improper, but it will be sufficient to remind that indeed it is God who will destroy cattles when He is angry. He may cut out lives. He may destroy altogether. In fact, Rudra-Indra is known as destroyer of Heroes. Why God is angry?

There are many verses that can be shown. I paste the following only:


Isaiah 58
4[The facts are that] you fast only for strife and debate and to smite with the fist of wickedness. Fasting as you do today will not cause your voice to be heard on high.----
6[Rather] is not this the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every [enslaving] yoke?
7Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house--when you see the naked, that you cover him, and that you hide not yourself from [the needs of] your own flesh and blood?
8Then shall your light break forth like the morning, and your healing (your restoration and the power of a new life) shall spring forth speedily; your righteousness (your rightness, your justice, and your right relationship with God) shall go before you [conducting you to peace and prosperity], and the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.(C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=58&version=45#cen-AMP-18795C))
9Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; you shall cry, and He will say, Here I am. -----
10And if you pour out that with which you sustain your own life for the hungry and satisfy the need of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in darkness, and your obscurity and gloom become like the noonday. 11And the Lord shall guide you continually and satisfy you in drought and in dry places and make strong your bones. And you shall be like a watered garden and like a spring of water whose waters fail not.
Isaiah 59
-- 2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear.
3For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue mutters wickedness.
-----------------------The point is that to the hard of Heart, He is Harder. To the soft, He is the Softer. Shri Krishna also says that the demonic He throws again and again to Hell.

By the way, before comparing Indra to cruelty, one must also read that Indra is the Shiva Friend of the Humble.

"I am the LORD: that is my name ----" hides the truth. What is the name? Is it 'Lord' or is it "I am"? "I am" is before all as Lord and "I am" is in everyone. If Shri Krishna defeated an external Indra, it was to demonstrate that it was the Self that was invincible.


Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
21 April 2009, 01:03 PM
6[Rather] is not this the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every [enslaving] yoke? ---------------

Indeed Lord in Veda also works incessantly so that we break every [enslaving] yoke.

Om Namah Shivaya

devotee
21 April 2009, 09:17 PM
Namaste Atanu,

You see the Truth clearly as usual ! :)

Regards,

OM

atanu
22 April 2009, 01:45 AM
Namaste Atanu,
You see the Truth clearly as usual ! :)

Regards,
OM

Thank you devotee for your kind words. Often, many verses in many scriptures rankle. I have thought, how can God sanction killing, or subjugation, or revenge? But I have read closer. Koran as well as Bible repeat the teaching of Vedanta "Do Not Covet" or "Word was with God. Word was God". I have contemplated how God at the same time sanctions taking of life etc. Then I have put myself in the place of a marauding Chieftain, whose only function is to capture land of others and take hostage. What will God tell to a killer?

Can an extremely Rajasic person or an extrememly Tamasic person who are burning with the desire to rule or to take revenge, be taught "Do not covet"? They are just told "Baby, your killing will not attract karma, only if it is to avenge an equal crime of the opponent. Or "Baby, you may take women hostage from the defeated clan, only if you do not dishonour the captured women". Can "Do not Covet", be directly taught to very primitive Barbaric minds, who, no matter what, will carry out the dictates of their fiery ego? They will kill, loot, rape and do all abominable tasks, motivated by their lowest grade Ego.


As usual, I think, that Hindus have the delicate responsiblity, being the oldest civilisation. It is natural that young ones, hot with Rajas, will hurl abuses and will not respect the older, but the mature cannot retaliate using similar crudity.


Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

rcscwc
04 August 2009, 09:57 AM
Indra is not god of war. He is the Lord of heaven, swarga, and had the prime responsiblity of defending the realm of gods against daityas. Every other god too was helping Indra in this.

But Indra is promarily the god of rains and thunder storms. He produces rains and thus brings the water of life to humans. Till today there is a song: Indar baba pani de, pani de gud dhani de.

Like many other RV deities, Indra too does not have temples devoted to him. But like other gods, he too is invited to come and witness and bless the rituals like marriage.