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devotee
02 May 2009, 12:39 AM
Namaste,

Last night while contemplating on Mandukya Upanishad (thanks to Anadi), I had this idea flashing in my mind. I just want to share this with you.

i) Visva :

The first quarter is vaiśvānara. Its field is the waking state. Its consciousness is outward-turned. It is seven-limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys gross objects.

ii) Taijasa :

The second quarter is taijasa. Its field is the dream state. Its consciousness is inward-turned. It is seven-limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys subtle objects.

iii) Prājña : The third quarter is prājña, where one asleep neither desires anything nor beholds any dream: that is deep sleep. In this field of dreamless sleep, one becomes undivided, an undifferentiated mass of consciousness, consisting of bliss and feeding on bliss. His mouth is consciousness.

This is the Lord of All; the Omniscient; the Indwelling Controller; the Source of All. This is the beginning and end of all beings.

iv)Prājña, whose field is deep sleep, is the third sound, M, because this is the measure, and that into which all enters. He who knows thus, measures all and becomes all.

v)The fourth is soundless: unutterable, a quieting down of all relative manifestations, blissful, peaceful, non-dual. Thus, OM is the Ātman, verily. He who knows thus, merges his self in the Self; - yea, he who knows thus.

-------------------------------------------------------

I feel, these verses also have somewhere hidden clue how to attain the state of Prajna & Turiya. The Prajna is the beginning & end of all beings in Visva & Taijasa states. So, by dissolving the Visva & Taijasa states into Prajna we can stay in Prajna state. How to dissolve the Visva & Taijsa states ? By quieting down the desires of the seven limbs & the nineteen mouths ... because the main force giving rise to these two states is desire to "enjoy" gross or subtle objects. Once these desires go to sleep with no dream left to fulfil desires ... the deep sleep state of Prajna takes over.

I think, that is why Ramkrishna Paramhans said that as long as there remains even a thread of desire, oneness with God cannot be achieved. Maharishi Yagananda mentioned in one place that once he was enjoying blissful presence of the Divine Mother ( when he was among many disciples) & the Mother said, "Son, the desires of your disciples around you are pushing me back" ! My own experience is that meditation doesn't becomes deep & blissful unless the desires become quiet.

..... But how to attain & stay in Turiya ? I think the way is to go beyond even the desire of feeding on bliss through Consciousness. But I don't really know how this quietening down of all relative manifestation is achieved. May be Turiya selects & decides on its own, you may not force it by any action from your side.

Regards,

OM

atanu
02 May 2009, 01:25 AM
Namaste,

Last night while contemplating on Mandukya Upanishad (thanks to Anadi), I had this idea flashing in my mind. I just want to share this with you.

i) Visva :

The first quarter is vaiśvānara. Its field is the waking state. Its consciousness is outward-turned. It is seven-limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys gross objects.

ii) Taijasa :

The second quarter is taijasa. Its field is the dream state. Its consciousness is inward-turned. It is seven-limbed and nineteen-mouthed. It enjoys subtle objects.

iii) Prājña : The third quarter is prājña, where one asleep neither desires anything nor beholds any dream: that is deep sleep. In this field of dreamless sleep, one becomes undivided, an undifferentiated mass of consciousness, consisting of bliss and feeding on bliss. His mouth is consciousness.

This is the Lord of All; the Omniscient; the Indwelling Controller; the Source of All. This is the beginning and end of all beings.

iv)Prājña, whose field is deep sleep, is the third sound, M, because this is the measure, and that into which all enters. He who knows thus, measures all and becomes all.

v)The fourth is soundless: unutterable, a quieting down of all relative manifestations, blissful, peaceful, non-dual. Thus, OM is the Ātman, verily. He who knows thus, merges his self in the Self; - yea, he who knows thus.

-------------------------------------------------------

I feel, these verses also have somewhere hidden clue how to attain the state of Prajna & Turiya. The Prajna is the beginning & end of all beings in Visva & Taijasa states. So, by dissolving the Visva & Taijasa states into Prajna we can stay in Prajna state. How to dissolve the Visva & Taijsa states ? By quieting down the desires of the seven limbs & the nineteen mouths ... because the main force giving rise to these two states is desire to "enjoy" gross or subtle objects. Once these desires go to sleep with no dream left to fulfil desires ... the deep sleep state of Prajna takes over.

I think, that is why Ramkrishna Paramhans said that as long as there remains even a thread of desire, oneness with God cannot be achieved. Maharishi Yagananda mentioned in one place that once he was enjoying blissful presence of the Divine Mother ( when he was among many disciples) & the Mother said, "Son, the desires of your disciples around you are pushing me back" ! My own experience is that meditation doesn't becomes deep & blissful unless the desires become quiet.

..... But how to attain & stay in Turiya ? I think the way is to go beyond even the desire of feeding on bliss through Consciousness. But I don't really know how this quietening down of all relative manifestation is achieved. May be Turiya selects & decides on its own, you may not force it by any action from your side.

Regards,

OM

Namaste Devotee,

Absolutely. Deep sleep also does not come till desires persist. Pragnyghana is ghana, since it is not parted by any thought. Meditation is possible only when desires have been either brushed aside or subdued or when the mind that desires has been killed. Universal desires rising is then seen as not rising in Self but in Guna Prakriti and these uniiversal desires are sattwik -- for good of One and All.

This Universe is covered over and permeated by Lord in the form of Death (kAla), which is equated to desire in Brihadarayanaka. Only and only beyond desires is Lord's form which is Immortality, who again is the Heart of Lord of Death. That said, it is also true, whether a mere ego (which is a small speck of fire compared to the infinitely big round ball of fire) can go over desires on its own? Two ways are taught. To submit unconditionally. I fail again and again to control my desires thus i pray: Lord save me. Or, to know the one who has the desire. In both ways, grace is required.

OM

devotee
02 May 2009, 01:43 AM
Only and only beyond desires is Lord's form which is Immortality, who again is the Heart of Lord of Death. That said, it is also true, whether a mere ego (which is a small speck of fire compared to the infinitely big round ball of fire) can go over desires on its own? Two ways are taught. To submit unconditionally. I fail again and again to control my desires thus i pray: Lord save me. Or, to know the one who has the desire. In both ways, grace is required.

Namaste Atanu,

That is absolutely correct ! Yes, Grace is required for success irrespective of the path you choose.

Regards,

OM

devotee
02 May 2009, 01:49 AM
The Tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet Mystery and Manifestations
arise from the same Source.
This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding.

-Chapter 1 of Tao Te Ching

How much it resonates with Vedanta ! :)

OM

atanu
02 May 2009, 07:33 AM
Namaste Atanu,

That is absolutely correct ! Yes, Grace is required for success irrespective of the path you choose.

Regards,

OM

To me Mandukya is the grace. In flash of a second, one may realise: Oh, this is God, this universe of mine, including this body. This whole thing is His gross body. It touches as breeze of cool air and it dries up and causes thirst, it moves and moves not. Oh, my God, that multi coloured dream was Him, in his subtle body, created by Him because He has no paid job to do. He is jobless and does whatever He likes. He has no remuneration but He is free. However, He keeps His mind -- wherein i sink in and where from i bounce back recharged daily -- curtained and dark, from impure prying eyes, so that not all will know all that He knows and all that He wishes for.

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
02 May 2009, 08:26 AM
He has three abodes, three dream states (Ait. III.12)

RV 1.164.10 The Eko, bearing three mothers and three fathers, stood on high; none ever over-weary him; the (gods) on the summit of the sky take counsel, respecting him in language all-comprehending (but) not extending to all.

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
02 May 2009, 05:10 PM
So frustrating to realize that even though we're Brahman, we must go through an awful lot of discipline, give up desires, obtain grace from Brahman (which is ourselves, btw).....do all this and more to realize what we already are - Brahman!

I agree. It has to be frustation only for those, who having categorized themselves as illusions, have snapped all connections with the truth. They are apparitions only.

Not so for those who see the untaintable truth as existence-intelligence-bliss in all states.

Om

devotee
03 May 2009, 01:15 AM
To me Mandukya is the grace. In flash of a second, one may realise: Oh, this is God, this universe of mine, including this body. This whole thing is His gross body. It touches as breeze of cool air and it dries up and causes thirst, it moves and moves not. Oh, my God, that multi coloured dream was Him, in his subtle body, created by Him because He has no paid job to do. He is jobless and does whatever He likes. He has no remuneration but He is free. However, He keeps His mind -- wherein i sink in and where from i bounce back recharged daily -- curtained and dark, from impure prying eyes, so that not all will know all that He knows and all that He wishes for.

Namaste Atanu,

Ah ! That is a beautiful expression given to the great feeling which cannot be exactly expressed !

Regards,

OM

brahman
04 July 2009, 12:58 AM
.... But how to attain & stay in Turiya ? I think the way is to go beyond even the desire of feeding on bliss through Consciousness. But I don't really know how this quietening down of all relative manifestation is achieved. May be Turiya selects & decides on its own, you may not force it by any action from your side.


The pure consciousness in “Turiya” can be had through persistent and strenuous efforts.

The seeker enjoys “Savikalpa Samadhi” during the initial stages of the dynamic practice of Yoga. Yet, human consciousness or consciousness about his body is not lost completely. But he becomes fully perceptive that the human body is but a perishable matter made of the Pancha tanmatras. In other words, it’s the beginning of transformation from the sthula to the sukshma.

The seeker gets prepared to mentally exhibit resistance to his sthula sarira as he starts enjoying the bliss of Samadhi. He detaches himself from the crowd, loves to be left alone, and be unwilling to feel affection for women etc. And when he is in tune with these qualities, he devotes the extra time to overcome the state of sthula, yearn for and acquire sukshma, achieve kaarana, recognize Brahman and finally become ONE with Brahman. This appears like a change from infancy to youth, youth to old age, and from old age to death.. For certain, lifespan can be interpreted in terms of time (kaala) and the other in terms of effort (yogam). It’s NOT a sudden change

All this is but science alone. Understand that it’s a universal truth, a Divine consciousness that you attain. It takes thousands of years of experience to empower one’s intellect. It again requires a cycle of re-births to completely attain its extended form of Brahman. Only the intelligent moulds his intellect in order to practice yoga, surpass the cycle of deaths (Samadhi) in his current life span itself and rise to higher levels. They continuously attain the state of Samadhi(death), abandon the sthula sarira, and attain the sukshma, experience bliss with Brahman, gain spiritual progress come back to sthula.
A person chooses his yoga in accordance with his own progressive stages in evolution. And truly nothing is chosen by looking at one’s neighbor. Yoga does not happen to someone who is not steadfast .He who does not understand his spiritual progress can always seek shelter under a yogi.

One thing is for sure. No person can really afford to enter the art of Yogam by practicing asana or forced pranayama techniques alone. On the contrary, hold onto dhayana in fearlessness and piety, fix attention and steadfast concentration by holding between your eyebrows.
The objects of meditation can never be rendered by only the senses. It’s to be understood with the Vedas or the positive energy vibrates by the use of the Vedas and experienced through dhyana or meditation (Vedanta). It is foolish to get immersed with books and usages of grammar and try experiencing the Paramatman. Experience the bliss by initially giving the mind to work, then the higher reason or buddhi, and eventually through the atman itself. Let the atman find the paramatman and attain unification with the Ultimate.

Simply put, The science of Yoga illustrates the normal bodily manners of a seeker who seeks spiritual progress in his mind. Every step taken by the mind is towards Brahman. In the process, the body will automatically follow. Listen. Yoga was born of Brahman; Brahman was not born of Yoga.

Understand the paramatman, that is the beginning of knowledge and end of all doubts.

The situation:
Even after seeing the universal form, brave Arjuna is confused; find how nicely the supreme godhead Krishna clarifies it.

Chapter 11: 45

After seeing this universal form, which I have never seen before, I am gladdened, but at the same time my mind is disturbed with fear. Therefore please bestow Your grace upon me and reveal again Your form as the Personality of Godhead, O Lord of lords, O abode of the universe.

46
O universal form, O thousand-armed Lord, I wish to see You in Your four-armed form, with helmeted head and with club, wheel, conch and lotus flower in Your hands. I long to see You in that form.

47
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, happily have I shown you, by My internal potency, this supreme universal form within the material world. No one before you has ever seen this primal form, unlimited and full of glaring effulgence.

48
O best of the Kuru warriors, no one before you has ever seen this universal form of Mine, for neither by studying the Vedas, nor by performing sacrifices, nor by charity, nor by pious activities, nor by severe penances can I be seen in this form in the material world.

49
You have been perturbed and bewildered by seeing this horrible feature of Mine. Now let it be finished. My devotee, be free again from all disturbances. With a peaceful mind you can now see the form you desire.

50
Sanjaya said to Dhrtarastra: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna, having spoken thus to Arjuna, displayed His real four-armed form and at last showed His two-armed form, thus encouraging the fearful Arjuna.

51
When Arjuna thus saw Krishna in His original form, he said: O Janardana, seeing this humanlike form, so very beautiful, I am now composed in mind, and I am restored to my original nature.

52
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: My dear Arjuna, this form of Mine you are now seeing is very difficult to behold. Even the demigods are ever seeking the opportunity to see this form, which is so dear.

53
The form you are seeing with your transcendental eyes cannot be understood simply by studying the Vedas, nor by undergoing serious penances, nor by charity, nor by worship. It is not by these means that one can see Me as I am.

54
My dear Arjuna, only by undivided devotional service can I be understood as I am, standing before you, and can thus be seen directly. Only in this way can you enter into the mysteries of My understanding.

55
My dear Arjuna, he who engages in My pure devotional service, free from the contaminations of fruitive activities and mental speculation, he who works for Me, who makes Me the supreme goal of his life, and who is friendly to every living being -- he certainly comes to Me.

Chapter 12: Bhakti Yoga

1 Arjuna inquired: Which are considered to be more perfect, those who are always properly engaged in Your devotional service
Or
those who worship the impersonal Brahman, the unmanifested?
2
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Those who fix their minds on My personal form and are always engaged in worshiping Me with great and transcendental faith are considered by Me to be most perfect.
3-4
But those who fully worship the unmanifested, that which lies beyond the perception of the senses, the all-pervading, inconceivable, unchanging, fixed and immovable -- the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth -- by controlling the various senses and being equally disposed to everyone, such persons, engaged in the welfare of all, at last achieve Me.
5
For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome.
To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.
6-7
But those who worship Me, giving up all their activities unto Me and being devoted to Me without deviation, engaged in devotional service and always meditating upon Me, having fixed their minds upon Me, O son of Prtha -- for them I am the swift deliverer from the ocean of birth and death.
8
Just fix your mind upon Me, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and engage all your intelligence in Me. Thus you will live in Me always, without a doubt.
9
My dear Arjuna, O winner of wealth, if you cannot fix your mind upon Me without deviation, then follow the regulative principles of bhakti-yoga. In this way develop a desire to attain Me.
10
If you cannot practice the regulations of bhakti-yoga, then just try to work for Me, because by working for Me you will come to the perfect stage.
11
If, however, you are unable to work in this consciousness of Me, then try to act giving up all results of your work and try to be self-situated.
12
If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in the cultivation of knowledge. Better than knowledge, however, is meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of the fruits of action, for by such renunciation one can attain peace of mind.
13-14
One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me -- such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.
15
He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.
16
My devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and not striving for some result, is very dear to Me.
17
One who neither rejoices nor grieves, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things -- such a devotee is very dear to Me.
18-19
One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service -- such a person is very dear to Me.
20
Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making Me the supreme goal, are very, very dear to Me.

Brahman