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yajvan
03 May 2009, 07:47 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

It is very interesting to note that within Ādi Śaṅkara's work Vivekacūḍāmaṇi¹ he sets the stage for knowledge of the Self within the first 153 śloka-s and says in the 154 śloka, Therefore, to be free of bondage ( bandha-muktaye) the wise (viduṣā¹) should make an effort (kartavyo) to discriminate between the Self and not-Self (ātmānātma vivekaḥ). By having understood that which is the nature of Existence (sat) Consciousness (cit) and Bliss (ānanda), one becomes blissful (sac¹).

Said another way ( as I view it) Ādi Śaṅkara has stated his case i.e. the discernment of the Self, on being human¹ , how suffering occurs ( due being attached to the not-Self), etc. and now says , I have offered you the facts and if one is wise/intelligent one will pursue discriminating between the Self and not-Self (ātmānātma vivekaḥ). Why so? because it will result in joy (ānanda).

So then, in his next śloka he helps us better understand that this SELF is not the gross body. How could it be ( he infers) ? He says the body originated from food and is sustained by food and perishes without it. The body's composite is of skin, flesh, etc. and never can it be Self-existent, eternally pure. How then can this be the Self.
He appeals to:
a. the information given in the previous 153 śloka-s and ;
b. the wise/intelligent person has comprehended it, and;
c. he stakes the claim that ātmānātma vivekaḥ is a reasonable choice of the wise.

Now he continues to help (coach) what is and is not the SELF.

There are 5 inferences one can look to that indicates that the SELF is not the self (body we consider material). We can take a look at these 5 in the next post.

praṇām

words

Vivekacūḍāmaṇi or the Crown jewel of Discrimination ( some say crest jewel) .
viduṣā or vidu विदु- intelligent, wise
ātmānātma vivekaḥ is ātmā + na + ātma or Self + not + Self ; vivekaḥ is discrimination
sac सच्- to take part or participate in , be possessed of
On being human
The 2nd śloka within Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:
For all things subject to birth, birth in a human body is rare. Even rarer to obtain are strength of the body and mind . Rarer still is purity. More difficult than these is the desire to live a spiritual life. Rarest of all is to have an understanding of the scriptures.
He continues in the 3rd śloka and says, rare and difficult to obtain are these 3: A human birth (narajañma), the burning desire for liberation (mumukṣutvaṁ) and the association with great (spiritual) beings i.e. the wise ( mahapuruṣa). These are the results of divine grace (daivānugraha).

yajvan
05 May 2009, 10:36 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté



There are 5 inferences one can look to that indicates that the SELF is not the self (body we consider material). We can take a look at these 5 in the next post.

The 158th śloka of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:
pāṇi pādādimān deho nātmā vyaṅge'pi jīvanāt |
tat- tacchakter anāśāc ca na niyāmyo niyāmakaḥ ||
The body, consisting of hands, feet and so on, cannot be the SELF because one lives without these limbs and continues to function. The controlled cannot be the controller.

Here are the 5 inferences that indicate the body is not the SELF. Let me offer one definition at a time to keep the posts simple and succinct:

anavayāt
dṛśyatvāt
apayitcāt
āgantugatvāt
annakāryatvāt anavayāt : The body is not the SELF because it does not persist.
a+nava+yāt - a अ is 'not' like in English using 'un' + nava नव is new, fresh, recent, young, 'freshly new' + yāt यात् is going moving and yat यत् conform or comply with, to keep pace; Hence this means not (a) + complying with (yāt) + keeping fresh and new i.e. something that does not persist. And what is that ? the body - śarīra शरीरthat which is easily destroyed or dissolved; the body , bodily frame .

Note the other view of this word as ana +vayā(t) : ana is breath + vayā is strength, vigor. A view of the body , based upon breath that brings vigor.

praṇām

simex
05 May 2009, 02:51 PM
Very cool thread. This is an extremely compelling, bullet-proof argument, and one that I've been pondering since well before I even knew what Sanatana Dharma was.

Not only does the aggregate "body" not persist, but neither do the components (i.e. cells). Your body is made up of cells, which are like tiny bodies themselves and fulfill all the criteria of a living organism. Over the course of an average human lifetime, none of the cells that were present in your body at birth will persist, and may be replaced several times over. And when the material is replaced, it is not a simple shuffling around of material already present in the body. "New" material is collected by way of food. So you are made of pieces of previously existing bodies (i.e. plant and animal). And yet, you do not die, nor do you experience a lapse in awareness. So we can conclude 1) the body is not the self 2) awareness is not in the body, it is of the body.

Looking forward to the next posts in this thread.

yajvan
06 May 2009, 09:31 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


There are 5 inferences one can look to that indicates that the SELF is not the self (body we consider material). We can take a look at these 5 in the next post.


anavayāt
dṛśyatvāt
apāyitvāt
āgantugatvāt
annakāryatvāt dṛśyatvāt - The body is not-SELF because it is seen¹ (dṛśya); This is different then the Seer, the SELF.
dṛśya दृश्य visible , conspicuous , to be looked at; any visible object. tva त्व - is 'your', or 'thy' ; at अत् to obtain. Hence your (tva) body is seen (dṛśya) or obtained (at) by seeing.

praṇām

additional words

seen is also dṛṣṭa दृष्ट- seen, looked at, perceived
darśana दर्शन - seeing , observing , looking , noticing , observation , perception

yajvan
07 May 2009, 09:51 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

NamastÚ

we continue...

anavayāt
dṛśyatvāt
apāyitvāt
āgantugatvāt
annakāryatvāt
apāyitvāt - apa अप away, back ; tva त्व thy, your ; apāya अपाय - going away , departure ,destruction , death , annihilation .

The body is the not-Self because upon its destruction (apāya) it ceases to be. There is no longevity to the body, and hence does not have the 'eternal' quality of the Self.

praṇām

yajvan
08 May 2009, 11:29 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

we continue...


anavayāt
dṛśyatvāt
apāyitvāt
āgantugatvāt
annakāryatvāt

āgantugatvāt is composed of :

āgantu आगन्तु - anything added or adhering ;
gata गतg one , gone away , departed , departed from the world , deceased , dead ; gone to any state or condition
gatvā brings us to gam
gam गम् which is to go towards, approach; it also means to die (discease).
So this word makes sense as it indicates that which adheres to (āgantu) and approaches, goes toward (gatvā) death (gam).
This is the body. Hence the body is the not-Self due to this condition of decay and goes towards death.praṇām

yajvan
10 May 2009, 08:44 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

we continue...

anavayāt
dṛśyatvāt
apāyitvātā
āgantugatvāt
annakāryatvāt

annakāryatvāt is composed of anna+ kārya + tvāt
anna अन्न - eaten (rooted in ad 'eating') food, it also means earth
kārya कार्य - to be made or done or practised or performed ; an effect or result; work or business done; tva त्व thy, your, one

This indicates that the body, you (tva) is the not-Self because it is made or done (kārya) or is the result of eating food (anna).
Food is perishable, hence the body ( made of food) is also perishable and there fore cannot be the Imperishable Self.

praṇām

yajvan
12 May 2009, 01:47 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Ādi Śaṅkara tells us in the 155th śloka of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi the one that becomes unattached (asaṃga¹ or asaṅga) is the person
who is liberated i.e. the SELF is unattached (asaṅga) and action-less (niṣkriyaṁ).

The SELF becomes unstuck (asañjayat¹). But from what? Perceived objects of every day life. Perceived objects that you may find in
waking or dreaming (and even deep sleep).
The śloka says the SELF is separated ( vivicya¹) like one separates the tender core of muñja grass from its covering, then one remains firmly established in the SELF.

So , one's experience is that of the inner silence of the SELF that is lived at all times i.e. established in the SELF. Yet activity continues, work continues and the SELF is untouched by this - just as it was before being unstuck (asañjayat), but now the person experiences the difference.

Stuck (sañjayati) = ignorance. Unstuck (asasañjat) = liberated.

praṇām

words

asaṃga = a + saṃga = a or not + saṃga 'coming together' ( also written saṅga that is rooted in sañj to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick )
niṣkriyaṁ or niṣkriya - the action-less One , the Supreme
sañjayati - to cause to stick or cling to , unite or connect hence asasañjat is to be unstuck
vivicya from vi or apart; probably from dvi meaning in two parts.
muñja a species of rush or sedge-like grass which grows to the height of 10 feet , and is used in basketwork

yajvan
20 May 2009, 10:13 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

The 162nd śloka of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi, offers the following:

The fool (mūḍha) thinks I am the body (deho'ham). An intelligent one knows of the 'I' in the body; Yet ( however) the great one (mahātmano), a person who has knowledge born of discrimination (viveka-vijñānavto) always knows (experiences) I am brahman (brahmāham).

Stuck (sañjayati) = ignorance. Unstuck (asasañjat) = liberated.

praṇām

yajvan
27 May 2009, 04:07 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

Ādi Śaṅkara-ji says in the 269th śloka of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi, the following:
ahaṁ maneti yo bhāvo dehākṣādāv-anātmani |
adhyāso'yaṁ nirastavyo viduṣā svātma-niṣṭhayā ||

What does this say? ( my translation)
I (ahaṁ) mine (maneti) and (yo) appearance (bhāvo) the body (deha) and senses (akṣa) not-SELF (anātmani) |
are held (yam) imposed (adhyāsa) (adhyāso'yaṁ) are cast out, rejected or removed by the wise (viduṣā)
established in (niṣṭhayā) their own SELF (svātma) ||

--Hence--
The notion of 'i' and 'mine' are the appearance of the body and senses and are not the SELF (ātman) |
The wise (vidu) rejects or casts-out this imposition (adhyāsa) this erroneous attribute (or adhyāropa - note I added this word and is not part of the śloka) by being established (resting in) their own Self (ātman).

Note the idea of ahaṁ offered here is small 'i' and is considered 'me' , connected to ego or aham+kāra ( or I maker , ego).

The author I am reading¹ translates this śloka in the following way:
The idea of 'me' and 'mine' exists in the body , the sense organs and so on, that are not the Self. |
The wise must destroy this superimposition by being firmly established in their own Self ||

Once again we see this notion of 'me' and 'mine' as being limited and tied, bound (sambandha¹) to the body. The notion of stuck (sañjayati) = ignorance. Unstuck (asasañjat) = liberated.

'Stuck' is one's orientation that only the body exists and/or only experiences the body (dehākṣādāv) and not-SELF (anātmani) .
'Unstuck' is being established in one's own Self (svātma-niṣṭhayā).

praṇām

words

ahaṁ or aham अहम्' I'
adhyasta अध्यस्त - placed over, disguised
adhyāsa अध्यास- imposing
adhyāropa अध्यारोप- wrong attribution , erroneous transferring of a statement from one thing to another.
yam यम् - to raise , extend or hold
deha देह+ akṣa अक्ष + ādāv or ādā आदा :
deha देह form , shape , mass , bulk i.e. the body. From the root word dih to plaster , mould or fashion
akṣa अक्ष of the number 5 and also means an organ of sense. Five infers the 5 senses.
ādāv or ādā आदा to seize , take away , carry off
yo or ya य - joining i.e. 'and'
bhāva भाव - becoming , being , existing , occurring , appearance
man + eti ~ 'mine'

man मन् to regard or consider any one or anything + eti एति- arrival, approach
anātmani or anātman अनात्मन्- not SELF; something different from spirit
viduṣā or vidu विदु - intelligent, wise
svātma-niṣṭhayā : being established or rested in one's own SELF.

svātma = sva स्वone's own, my own , thy own , his own , her own , our own + ātma or ātman or SELF
niṣṭha निष्ठ being in or on , situated on , grounded or resting on
niratavyo or nirasta निरस्त cast out or off , expelled , banished , rejected , removed , refuted
sambandha सम्बन्ध- binding or joining together , close connection or union or association , conjunction , inherence , connection with or relation to
The Vivekacūḍāmaṇi of Śaṅkarācārya Bhagavatpāda, by John Grimes - ISBN 81-208-2039-8

yajvan
01 June 2009, 05:52 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

There is a general consensus that one's spiritual growth comes through śruti¹ & smṛ́ti¹, yukti (reasoning), and anubhava (direct experience). Note that guidance from muni-s and guru-s fall under śruti as we 'hear' them and the wisdom they offer.

I thought this 164th śloka Ādi Śaṅkara-ji offers in his Vivekacūḍāmaṇi was worth the post:
So long as the vidvas (learned or intelligent i.e. scholarly) does not give up his/her (erroneous) identification with the body, sense organs and so on, which are not real, there can be no talk of his/her liberation (vimukti¹) even if he is supremely proficient in vedānta philosophy.

We find this lesson offered in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad, where Sanatkumāra is instructing Nārada. Nārada is a knower of all the veda-s, ithihasas, purāṇa-s, etc. but is honest to Sanatkumāra and himself by saying I am a word knower or mantra-vit, yet not the knower of the Self (ātma-vit).

Sanatkumāra says whatever you have learned so far is merely nāma ( name). He finds value in this knowing, and then takes Nārada even further. That is the wisdom of the experienced and qualified teacher ( guru) to take one from where they are at and continue to unfold the fullness of Being within that person.

as I see it:

the mantra for the stuck (sañjayati) and not knowing there is more is deho'ham - I am the body.
for those that wish to get unstuck the mantra is so'ham - I am He
for those that are unstuck¹ (asasañjat) liberated, they experience the mantra ahaṃ - 'I'praṇām

words

śruti श्रुति - hearing , listening; that which is heard or perceived with the ear , sound ; sacred knowledge orally transmitted by the Brahmans from generation to generation. śruti is also sacred eternal sounds or words as eternally heard by certain holy sages i.e. the ṛṣi-s
smṛ́ti स्मृति - that which is remembered and handed down in writing by human authors; it is properly only applied to the mantra and brāhmaṇa portion of the vedas , although afterwards extended to the upaniṣads and other Vedic works.
yukti युक्ति -reasoning , argument , proof , influence , induction , deduction from circumstances ; This word also means union , junction , connection , combination.
anubhava अनुभव - perception , apprehension, understanding ; impression on the mind not derived from memory i.e. experience , knowledge derived from personal observation or experiment
vimukti विमुक्ति - release , deliverance , liberation ; release from the bonds of existence , final emancipation
ahaṁ or aham अहम् 'I'
'Unstuck' is being established in one's own Self (svātma-niṣṭhayā).

yajvan
06 June 2009, 08:31 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

NamastÚ

The 149th śloka from Ādi Śaṅkara-ji offered in his Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:

Not by missiles nor weapons nor wind nor fire nor even millions of perscribed actions (ca karma-koṭibhiḥ) can this bondage be destroyed; by nothing except the great, sharp, beautiful sword of wisdom (vij˝āna╣) which comes from discrimination (viveka╣) given by the grace (prasāda╣) of the Supreme .

Note it is the prasāda , grace that is pointed out here...yet this prasāda also means the clearness, brightness or purity of vision that is also inferred in the word prasāda. This is connected to the question I have: The key question is what discrimination (viveka) is needed?

praṇām

words

vij˝āna विज्ञान the act of distinguishing or discerning , understanding , comprehending , recognizing , intelligence , knowledge
viveka विवेक- discrimination, distinction
prasāda प्रसाद- graciousness , kindness , kind behaviour , favour , aid , yet this word also means clearness, brightness, purity

yajvan
09 June 2009, 09:00 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté



The key question is what discrimination (viveka) is needed?

Discrimination, or the ability to separate the Self from the non-Self. It is the seperation that occurs when a person experiences
the SELF. It (Self) is not an object of inspection say the wise because the 'inspector' is the SELF. It is the unsticking (asaṃga¹) the SELF from all the senses, so the SELF is experienced on its own. Then one sees the difference, the comparison the distinction (viveka) of silence from activity. Silence (stillness) of the Self , from that activity of the non-Self. How does this come about? Various upāya-s¹ (techniques) are available.

We hear of neti neti ! not this, not this. It is saying what you 'see' is the not-SELF. Neti comes from the combination (sandhi¹) of na + iti ; na = not + iti = 'thus', ~this~; iti refers to something that has been said or thought. Some say ' not this' and others may say ' not so'.

What is key here is what one views from the senses cannot be the SELF as it is localized, changes and therefore (sooner or later) decays or is destoyed. The SELF is not this (neti).

Hence this is the viveka ( discrimination) that is being suggested, from the last post ( number 12) i.e. ātmānātma-vivekaḥ - the distinction between the Self and the non-Self.

Svāmī Prabhupāda - when one's heart is cleared of all nonsense, then one can understand what God is.
This is the condition of being established in the SELF - one is cleared of all the nonsense, that of mūḍha-buddhi (bewildered , perplexed or confused intellect) of who one is.

praṇām


words

asaṃga = a + saṃga = a or not + saṃga 'coming together' ( also written saṅga that is rooted in sañj to be attached or fastened , adhere , cling , stick )
sandhi - are specific rules offered by the grammarian Pāṇini that of lopa (deletion), vikāra (modification) and āgama (addition);
Hence na + iti becomes neti based upon Pāṇini's ādenga guṇaḥ rule a+i is replaced with 'e' ending with neti.
nīti नीति - 'means relation to, dependence on' which is interesting (to me); One is saying I am not (neti) dependent (nīti) on what I see.
upāya उपाय - that by which one reaches one's aim ; a method, technique, approach

yajvan
27 August 2009, 09:12 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

I wrote on another post:



Establishment of the SELF is not a selected action that one chooses the same way one may choose a state of mind i.e. ' I will remain positive, I will not get angry, I will act like ___________ ( fill in the blank)'. Once one is 'possessed of the SELF', or ātma sākṣātkāra¹ there is no time it is lost , misplaced, or overshadowed by any human experience.

Well how does this occur? By one's sādhanā. And what does this do? It seperates the SELF from the non-SELF. Ādi Śaṅkara-ji says it this way: That person is liberated who seperates the SELF ( which is unattached, actionless) from all perceived sense objects as one seperates the tender core of the munja grass ( a type of grass) from its covering, and who then remains firmly established (possessed) in the SELF.
The notion of seperating the SELF from the non-SELF, what is that all about? Let me see if I can give some hint of what this means.
This world that is all around us, that comes in through our senses ( eyes, ears, mouth, even thoughts) is the world of the named.
This named world is vācya वाच्य - to be spoken or said or told or announced or communicated or stated or named or predicated or enumerated or spoken of.
Now the subjective world are the names vācaka वाचकspeaking , saying , telling anything. When this two worlds are united - the objective outer world and the subjective inner world, then there is this cohesion , this binding between the two. This is a binding of the pure subjective Self with the objective non-SELF.

This then brings light the value of post 13 above.


praṇām

1. ātma आत्म - is ātman, ones essence, core Being + sākṣātkāra साक्षात्कार - realization; evident or intuitive perception

rkpande
28 August 2009, 12:25 AM
Shri Yajvan ji,

Its been a very illuminating series of posts. thank you.

My question is that as per Shri Sankara, jnana yoga is the best form of yoga.

If one comes to the state of discriminating Atman from non-atman, does one become Jeevan Mukta.

pranam

rk

yajvan
28 August 2009, 02:45 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

NamastÚ rkpande,


Shri Yajvan ji,
Its been a very illuminating series of posts. thank you.
My question is that as per Shri Sankara, jnana yoga is the best form of yoga.If one comes to the state of discriminating Atman from non-atman, does one become Jeevan Mukta. pranam rk

Yes, this is the offering Ādi Śaṅkara gives in the of Vivekacūḍāmaṇi.
We can talk more about this. This is the unsticking I refer to in the posts above.

Also His grace is still part of the program i.e. the 149th śloka from Ādi Śaṅkara-ji offered in his Vivekacūḍāmaṇi says the following:


Not by missiles nor weapons nor wind nor fire nor even millions of perscribed actions (ca karma-koṭibhiḥ) can this bondage be destroyed; by nothing except the great, sharp, beautiful sword of wisdom (vij˝āna╣) which comes from discrimination (viveka╣) given by the grace (prasāda╣) of the Supreme .


praṇām

yajvan
28 August 2009, 08:58 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Namasté

I wrote,



It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form.
But the form of what? Here is the wisdom offered and what I hoped to add to the conversation in my previous post. It is the 'form' of everything.
This implies that solid ( body) or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this is the Supreme, Brahman.

Now where does this notion come from ( yajvan , are you making this stuff up) ?
If we look to the śiva sūtras, a principle āgama of kaśmir śaivism, the very first sūtra says caitanyamātmā. That is it, that is how brief this sutra is, yet it contains the knowledge of what this whole creation ( movable or non-movable, visible or invisable) is.

We can take caitanyamātmā and look at it this way caitanyam + ātmā.
caitanyam चैतन्य - is from cétana consciousness and this caitanyam is Universal Being or Spirit, which it's natre is pure awareness, pure consciounsess.
And ātmā or ātma आत्म is ātman आत्मन् - is essence , nature , character. It is also defined as whole body considered as one and opposed to the separate members of the body.

Just this alone defines Universal Being is the essence. Yet to the wise and the commenter/translator Kṣemarāja¹ of the śiva sūtras vimarśinī he says that ātmā also means 'form'. I can see this. As just mentioned ātman is also defined as whole body considered as one and opposed to the separate members of the body, hence a ~form~. This then connects the intial post saying
This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form.

praṇām
words and references

āgama आगम- a traditional doctrine or precept , collection of such doctrines , sacred work ; discussions of śiva and śakti
Kṣemarāja was the cela (student, disciple) of Abhinavagupta - more on this lineage see http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150&highlight=sv%26%23257%3Bm%26%23299%3B (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3150&highlight=sv%26%23257%3Bm%26%23299%3B)
fyi only - ātmanā आत्मना- means of ātman