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Spiritualseeker
10 June 2009, 08:47 AM
Hello all,

How are women treated in Hinduism? There are some tales circulated around the web that women were and still are mistreated in Hindu society. Is there any truth to this? What do the scriptures say?

This is important to me. As a muslim we would say "women are equal" but in reality women are not equal in islam. They are a bit more deficent according to islam. They can be hit, they are told that if they dont have sex when their husband wants it that the angels will curse them all night long, they can be forced to stay in doors all day if the man "orders" the wife to, the wife must obey all commands of the husband, a woman witness is not equal to a male witness etc...

So please if hinduism doesnt truely see women as equal then please dont tell me they do. Be honest with me. Because when I asked muslims the same question 7 years ago they said all good things. But when I experienced myself what they truely did to women it was opposite from what they told me

thanks
-juan

Spiritualseeker
10 June 2009, 11:06 AM
anybody please?

Eastern Mind
10 June 2009, 05:50 PM
Yes, you ask tough questions. Books have been written on this topic, and as you have heard repeatedly from me and others, you will get many different viewpoints. Rather than quoting scripture, I can only tell you of my observations. Yes there are some men who verbally (and perhaps worse) abuse their wives in my own community. Usually it is behind closed doors, but I have witnessed it on occasion. My personal view is that these men simply are immature souls that don't understand karma very well. The soul is genderless, so the law of karma would suggest that a person could very well be born of the opposite gender. What goes around comes around. But in my community these men are in the minority. Most men here respect their wives, and indeed all women. They have solid mutual understanding relationships for the most part. One elder fellow I know whose wife is on dialysis for diabetes brings her to temple every single day. You can just feel the love and caring. He is her primary caregiver. So you have the positive as well as negative. People see what they want to, or need to.

There are western sociologists who will go to extremes to find all of the bad things about Hindu (and Muslim) culture. An example is a focus on female infanticide. (A horrible trend in my opinion) They write it off immediately as women hatred, mysogyny (sp) . But another possible explanation is the harsh economic reality. The fact is that a male probably does have a bettter chance to help end the cycle of poverty for a particular family. Its the sociologist's forte and they are blinded by what they want to see. Of course western societies have their own brand of chauvinism. Young women here complain about how hard it is to find a decent man.

in Hindu scripture, as far as I know, there is a mix, but its mostly on the positive. Some of us do worship Shakti, the feminine form.
Aum Namasivaya

Spiritualseeker
10 June 2009, 07:17 PM
I see. My main concern is I would hate to come across scriptures in hinduism that degrade women. I am hoping they cannot be found in scripture. Because this would make me want to halt my investigation into hinduism. Because if its Eternal Truths that God has given mankind then I would think it would be the best for both men and women, elderly, young, etc.

Eastern Mind
10 June 2009, 07:39 PM
Within the vastness of Hindu scripture, I`m sure that anyone who wanted to could find a scripture or a verse or two that could be interpreted as negative towards women. If you`re thinking that all of Hindu scripture, Sruti, and Smrti, and Guru`s writings is without a single derogatory (interpreted) comment, then you`re surely mistaken. But isn`t that like judging all Canadians by my behaviour only. I should hope you will see the fallacy in that line of thinking.

Aum Namasivaya

Spiritualseeker
10 June 2009, 07:41 PM
Ofcourse myfriend, but these are scriptures and scriptures are something God gave us. So I dont understand how one can be negetive and another free from it if it all comes from the same source?

saidevo
10 June 2009, 09:59 PM
For one of the best articles about the status of women in Hinduism, check:
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Women_in_Hinduism.htm

Here is a brief:

• As Yajvan has stated in another thread, there were 25 women Rishis in the Vedic times, who had the revelation of Vedas as well as participated in its recitation in the rituals, wearing the sacred thread. Some of the female Rishis were: Visvara, Apala the daughter of Atri, Gosha the daughter of Kaksivant and IndraNi wife of Indra. The Sanskrit feminine terms 'brahmavAdini' (a female Vedic practitioner), 'achAryAni' (a teacher's wife), 'upAdhyAyani' (a preceptor's wife) indicate that women were treated with respect on par with men.

• Hindu history is full of instances of renowned queens who either ruled the state or advised their king-husbands in the rule of the state; there were even women soldiers: Megasthenes (fifth century B.C.E.) mentions heavily armed women guards protecting King Chandragupta's palace.

• The very term 'shakti' for 'power' is feminine; men derived their power from their women. Kings and towns were destroyed because of the wrong done to a single woman: RAvaNa lost his life and city for doing wrong to Sita, the Kauravas for the wrong done to Draupadi, wife of the PANdavas, and King Pandyan Nedunchezhiyan lost his life and the city of Madurai, because he mistakenly killed Kovalan, husband of KaNNaki.

The Hindu religion gives divinity to the Hindu women; the Hindu dharma gives dignity to them in life. Here is a brief of how:

• The manifest Hindu Gods, specially the Trinity of BrahmA, VishNu and Shiva have their consorts. In fact, the ShAkta tradition (worshipping Goddess Mother) is a most powerful tradition in Hinduism, and it is this tradition that influenced Christianity to recognize and honour their women gods.

• Some of the precepts and provisions in the Hindu Dharma ShAstras for women:

01. Apasthamba: Guest, children, elders, sick people, and pregnant women should be fed first.

02. Marriage is allowed by law for those women who fall under these five misfortunes: 1. whose husband is missing, 2. or is dead, 3. or becomes a religious anchorite, 4. or is impotent, 5. or has fallen from caste. (Parasara and Narada).

03. The truest duty of the wife is to serve the husband and not going to pilgrimages or keeping fast, or performing vows, unless with the husband's permission.

04. A girl should be married after reaching years of discretion. A girl who does not know to serve her husband, who does not Know the honor due to him, such a child should not be married by the father nor until she knows the Duties and precepts of religion.

04. A husband should never chastise his wife, but should always maintain her like a mother, even under greatest affliction; should never abandon a chaste and dutiful wife.

05. The wise householder should not even think with evil mind of another's wife, for by so doing he incurs sin.

06. A husband should always satisfy his wife by giving her presents, dresses and money, and also by love, respect and pleasant words, but he should never behave unkindly towards her. O Goddess! a man who is loved by his chaste wife, has acquired all merits and becomes thy beloved.

07. A father should ensure that his daughter is also taught so as to fit her to be a good wife, and mother.

The primary, nature-ordained roles that a woman plays in her life are: mother, wife and daughter. Men play the counterparts of these roles plus the role of the breadwinner. Hindu religion and dharma, besides freeing women of the necessity of being breadwinners while their husbands are alive, has made their household and social lives healthy and prosperous, happy and peaceful, thus fulfilling the main goals of human life.

We can very well understand this from the lives lead by Hindu women in the Hindu societies defined by Hindu dharma, even until as recently as before the Infotech stormed the market and culture as an industry.

• Hindu mothers/wives until the sixtees and seventees, who are today grandmothers, played the main role of housewives all through their lives, without any ambition towards the spoils of western education or employment or the household amenities provided by technology. They ground their seasonings in a grinding stone, wet and dry floor in a stony, mechanical device and even pounded their daily rice in a stone mortar with pestles. They tended their husbands, children, cattle and grains and still had ample leisure time to sleep, read and worship. The result was that the grandmothers were hale and healthy with adequate exercise for their supple and sensitive bodies, peace for their mind and lived a life of activity into advanced age, their eyesight, hearing and other faculties generally intact.

• Hindu daughers until the sixtees and seventees had their school education but did not aspire for jobs; instead they sought to learn arts such as the Karnatic music and dance such as the BharatanAtyam that gave them entertainment, social life, peace and a good physique.

Unfortunately, the technology-driven, west-influenced Hindu society of today is increasingly making Hindu women both subjects and objects of desire, lust and avarice under the guise of modern civilization. The result is that today's office-going Hindu women in general have neither happiness nor peace in their personal and social lives, nor a health that ensures physical acvitity and longevity.

In case someone accuses me of being a male chauvinist, let me state that if I am to be born in the opposite sex in my next birth, I would prefer to be born as an ideal Hindu woman as defined by the Hindu Dharma and depicted in the Hindu PurANas.

Spiritualseeker
11 June 2009, 06:43 AM
This is excellent material saidevo. This is what I am looking for. So I probably wont find any verses like the Quran that allow you to smack your wife etc? It does seem like Hindu women are honored in the scriptures. I am not too concerned with society but more with what the scriptures say. Though I havent read any scriptures it seems like this information indicates that they are honored.

Namaste

mithya
12 June 2009, 01:32 AM
So please if hinduism doesnt truely see women as equal then please dont tell me they do. Be honest with me. Because when I asked muslims the same question 7 years ago they said all good things. But when I experienced myself what they truely did to women it was opposite from what they told me


Any answer, positive or negative, is going to be biased. So I'll simply place the facts in front of you, and you can decide for yourself.

# Manu Smriti (a Hindu text) has some portions that may be misconstrued as anti-women. For instance, this verse in Manu Smriti:

"Like a shudra, a woman is entitled to only one sacrament, that is marriage." (Manu II:66-67, IX:126).

Anti-Hindus may use this verse to attack Hindus and call them misogynistic. But I personally feel that Manu was speaking figuratively: Marriage in this case means protection. Just as workers are protected by merchants, women must be protected from this dangerous world by men. So this verse favors women, if anything.

Bottom line, there are many verses in Hindu scriptures that are apparently misogynistic. But if you investigate with an open mind, you'll see that they actually favor women's welfare and freedom.

mithya
12 June 2009, 01:40 AM
This is excellent material saidevo. This is what I am looking for. So I probably wont find any verses like the Quran that allow you to smack your wife etc? It does seem like Hindu women are honored in the scriptures.

Unfortunately, there are some verses even in the principal upanishads:

Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 7.4

If she do not give in, let him, as he likes, bribe her (with presents). And if she then do not give in, let him, as he likes, beat her with a stick or with his hand, and overcome her, saying: 'With manly strength and glory I take away thy glory,'--and thus she becomes unglorious.


Some people may feel this verse encourages violence against women. But I believe it's metaphorical. But people who seek justification, are going to use such verses to abuse women. So the scripture isn't at fault; people are.

Spiritualseeker
13 June 2009, 08:23 AM
That is too bad. Thanks for showing the info. But it does seem that it could be literal. I was hoping hinduism would be a bit better towards women, but it seems about the same. I wish the verses had not existed.

mithya
13 June 2009, 09:01 AM
That is too bad. Thanks for showing the info. But it does seem that it could be literal. I was hoping hinduism would be a bit better towards women, but it seems about the same. I wish the verses had not existed.

It's NOT literal, it's a figure of speech. No Hindu guru has used to verses to stress violence on women.

Spiritualseeker
13 June 2009, 09:43 AM
Is it "official" that its figurative? And what is the figurative meaning.

satay
13 June 2009, 05:00 PM
namaskar,



Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 7.4


Brihadaranyaka Upanishad only has six chapter.

Spiritualseeker
13 June 2009, 07:34 PM
I just emailed the himalayan academy concerning the issue with women. I will see what response I get back.

RamaRaksha
13 June 2009, 09:25 PM
As I have posted in the other thread, just because there is something that was written thousands of years ago, does not make it official.

To me this is what idolatry is all about. The common misconception regarding idolatry is that it is about praying to an image. I belive that idolatry is about gaurding against anything that might come between you and God, be it be a stone image, book, picture etc.

For example the Pope says God can only be a man, if God appeared before him in the form of a woman, the pope would kick her out! Christians have built up this nice form for christ, blond, blue-eyed, very nice looking. Christ was born in palestine, an arab land. He may have most likely looked like an Arab! Would christians accept him if came to them looking like an arab? This is what idolatry is all about.

The same can be said towards the contents of a book. Look for God within your heart and mind, that is where she belongs and that is where she resides.

Always remember: God is Truth, Truth is God. A seeker of Truth, even if he is an athiest, will always be with God. Get lost in these books looking for God, then you will find neither Truth nor God.

mithya
13 June 2009, 11:47 PM
namaskar,



[FONT=Arial]Brihadaranyaka Upanishad only has six chapter.

Here's the link from advaita vedanta discussion forum. (see 3rd paragraph.)

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2000-July/022269.html

atanu
14 June 2009, 12:12 AM
Here's the link from advaita vedanta discussion forum. (see 3rd paragraph.)

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2000-July/022269.html

Namaste Mithya,

Equal eye should mean that we equally question the Koran verse and counter real discrimination against women in Muslim society. Do you have that courage mithya?

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=28941&postcount=28

Om Namah Shivaya

reflections
14 June 2009, 05:32 AM
Spiritual Seeker,
Our societies have undergone a lot of changes in terms of its social structure in past millenia. So the roles of responsibility of genders have also undergone changes. Yes, verses do exist in Hinduism which can be interpreted as derogatory towards woman in today's term. You will find same thing with Qur'an and Bible as well. But, that is if you see scriptures as static texts which can never undergo any change.

For example, I respect 'Graham Bell' for invention of telephone but I dont use the same model, I use latest cell-phone instead. Becuase Graham bell was the first one to brign the technology then onwards we have evolved. Similarly, Rishis, Prophets were first bring any kind of social strucutre in their particular societies. Later on we have walked on that path and changed.

I don't love Hinduism becuase of what it has to offer me as a woman. I love Hinduism because if offers me self-realization, it takes me beyond identity, beyond gender, beyond name or beyond form. It makes me realize that I am just a small drop in the ocean of only reality which is Brahman.

Regards,
reflections.

Spiritualseeker
14 June 2009, 07:01 AM
Namaste Reflections,

I understand where you coming from, but it is extremely important to me. One of the reasons I decided to leave Islam was when i was reading through my books of jurisprudence, I came accross an entire section on when you can beat your wife, how you can, and how hard etc..

I have been contemplating if I am even going to join a religion. I am afraid because I feel like i will become attracted to certain aspects then join and then later realize it was a mistake when I find things I dislike. That is one of the reasons why Buddhism is still an option for me. But Hinduism is quite amazing afterall buddhism came from hinduism. and I am deeply attracted to Lord Ganesa as im sure everybody knows now. I even purchased a statue and I am contemplating possibly doing Puja. But I wont be satisfied until i see the entire truth, without anything being negative.

-Juan

devotee
14 June 2009, 07:08 AM
That is too bad. Thanks for showing the info. But it does seem that it could be literal. I was hoping hinduism would be a bit better towards women, but it seems about the same. I wish the verses had not existed.

Namaste SS,

I must thank Reflections for saying it so nicely.

First of all, the quoted verse is disputed. It appears in Kila Kandam of the Brihdaranyaka Upanishad & appears to be added later on. If you read this Upanishad, the topic changes so suddenly from deep discussion on Self to rituals for worldly gains, that it almost shocks the reader.

Moreover, Hindus have been able to keep Spirituality separate from social customs anywhere written in the scriptures. There are so many things written in various scriptures ( there are hundreds of scriptures unlike Islam which has only one) in Hinduism which today have no relevance in Hindu society. Those might have been correct to follow in a particular time but as the time changed, the Hindu society adopted progressive new ideas and it is changing everyday.

In fact, it is also not necessary that all Hindus follow the same social customs ... it varies widely even within India. The customs followed by the Hindus in the South of India, the North of India, the Eastern part of India & the Western part of India vary quite significantly. It is quite reasonable to expect that customs followed by Hindus living outside India would vary even more.

Here one must differentiate between the Abrahimic religions especially Islam & Hinduism. Islam tries to dictate terms on even routine things in one's personal life & one MUST follow that or face the wrath of the Clerics. Hindus don't have any Cleric dictating you how to live with your wife, how to lead your daily life etc. etc. Nobody interferes in your personal life & you are also expected behave in a similar manner duly respecting everyone's personal freedom & privacy.

I think Saidevo ji has given good input on the status of Women in Hinduism earlier in his post.

OM

Spiritualseeker
14 June 2009, 07:27 AM
Namaste,

I see, It just concerns me i dont know. Like some muslims have tried to adapt their religion but they cannot erase verses about beating the wives or erase the hadiths that say a woman must have sex with her husband or else angels curse her all night long. I just wished that in hinduism the text was updated or it could be proven that the Hindu religion adapted to modern times in context of womens rights etc..

-juan

MahaHrada
14 June 2009, 07:43 AM
Namaste Reflections,

I understand where you coming from, but it is extremely important to me. One of the reasons I decided to leave Islam was when i was reading through my books of jurisprudence, I came accross an entire section on when you can beat your wife, how you can, and how hard etc..

I have been contemplating if I am even going to join a religion. I am afraid because I feel like i will become attracted to certain aspects then join and then later realize it was a mistake when I find things I dislike. That is one of the reasons why Buddhism is still an option for me. But Hinduism is quite amazing afterall buddhism came from hinduism. and I am deeply attracted to Lord Ganesa as im sure everybody knows now. I even purchased a statue and I am contemplating possibly doing Puja. But I wont be satisfied until i see the entire truth, without anything being negative.

-Juan

Indian Religions have a known history of about 7000 years, and there are millions of pages of religious literature still available today and that is only a small part of what has been written and is lost now.
So why care about a single verse?

I think the best options anyways is to forget about joining "Hinduism".
Conversion is normally not really a part of Hinduism. I know only of 2 Hindu organisations who promote the idea that conversions are possible in Hindu Religion. (Arya samaj and the Siddhanta Church)

Then there are projects to reconvert former Hindus back to Hinduism which is altogether a different idea.

The usual way would be to accept a teacher, if you accept a teacher you automatically will belong to his tradition and you do not need to bother at all if all holy books of every tradition are according to your liking.
But even if you accept a teacher you have not converted, because that idea simply does not exist within the majority of Hindu traditions. If you want to convert you either have to become affiliated with arya samaj or siddhanta church, but you do not need to belong to any tradition or formally convert to worship shiva or ganesha. There is no need for conversion to be a Hindu. If you cannot get rid of the conversion idea, if belonging formally to a religion is needed for your happiness you need to contact arya samaj, or siddhanta church or buddhism.

devotee
14 June 2009, 07:57 AM
Namaste SS,

I can appreciate your concern keeping in mind that you have just come back from Islam.

The best test is to see what has been adopted by the Hindus as per Laws in India. Let me tell you, the today's laws are biased in favour of women. There are strong laws against dowry, domestic violence, sexual harassment at workplace, eve teasing etc. which are very strongly biased in favour of women where the evidence given by woman is taken a correct unless proved wrong by the person against whom the charges are labeled.

Some people can always find a verse or two against women in ancient scriptures within Hinduism bur what matters most is what the Hindus really believe & accept. If they were really biased against women, would they adopt those laws in their home-country ?

It doesn't matter to me whether you become a Hindu or a Buddhist or convert to any other religion. However, please don't have any wrong impression about us Hindus. You can meet some Hindu women who can make your doubts clear.

OM

Spiritualseeker
14 June 2009, 03:20 PM
I think the best options anyways is to forget about joining "Hinduism".
Conversion is normally not really a part of Hinduism. I know only of 2 Hindu organisations who promote the idea that conversions are possible in Hindu Religion. (Arya samaj and the Siddhanta Church)


Thats too bad. Hinduism being as rich in spirituality as it is should be more open to outsiders. Afterall were the greeks that came into India Indians? What about those in Malaysia who are hindus. What about Bangledesh? Yet there are Malaysians that converted to hinduism. Not to mentioned Thai Hindus. Very strange... I understand you said you dont have to be hindu to worship Ganesha and Siva, but it sure helps when you feel welcome because then you join a "sangha" or community of true seekers.

I can just picture myself going to a temple in the future and someone telling me I cannot worship there.



Namaste SS,

I can appreciate your concern keeping in mind that you have just come back from Islam.

The best test is to see what has been adopted by the Hindus as per Laws in India. Let me tell you, the today's laws are biased in favour of women. There are strong laws against dowry, domestic violence, sexual harassment at workplace, eve teasing etc. which are very strongly biased in favour of women where the evidence given by woman is taken a correct unless proved wrong by the person against whom the charges are labeled.

Some people can always find a verse or two against women in ancient scriptures within Hinduism bur what matters most is what the Hindus really believe & accept. If they were really biased against women, would they adopt those laws in their home-country ?

It doesn't matter to me whether you become a Hindu or a Buddhist or convert to any other religion. However, please don't have any wrong impression about us Hindus. You can meet some Hindu women who can make your doubts clear.

OM


Thank you. I can see that Hindu women are respected, I was just wishing that there were no negative scriptures. But perhaps thats my attachment to have things the way I want. I must cut the strings from those attachments.

Eastern Mind
14 June 2009, 04:06 PM
I can just picture myself going to a temple in the future and someone telling me I cannot worship there.


Thank you. I can see that Hindu women are respected, I was just wishing that there were no negative scriptures. But perhaps thats my attachment to have things the way I want. I must cut the strings from those attachments.

If you want to convert, the option is there. Someone gave their opinion that its not necessary. That's their opinion, and all opinions are valid. Others gave their opinions that its possible and even beneficial. On my recent pilgrimage, as documented in the thread on it, I did have to pull out my certificate of conversion at Madurai. I, however, am assuming that you look 'Indian'. I may be wrong. So you could probably pull it off. Getting into Madurai was no big thing for me, as God is in you. Yet still it was nice to feel that I did belong. So these decisions are yours alone to make, having weighed all the pros and cons. There is no authority in Hinduism to tell you what to do. That's the beauty of it all. Well, I should qualify that somewhat. If you find your Guru, it would be best to obey Him at least to the best of your ability. A true guru will know you better than you know you, so his advice would be beneficial.

I don't think you've truly grasped the vastness of scripture. Besides all the Sanskrit scriptures, there are others written in more regional languages. Since i'm a bit familiar with Tamil, I'll give you a couple of examples. The Thirmanthiram by Saint Tirumoolar has at least 3400 verses. The tiruvacagam translated into English by Alexander Pope (I bought a copy some 30 years back) is very lengthy. The Agamas are huge. Sometimes it has been one man's lifetime progect to translate these things. And I'm sure that there are other sacred scriptures in other ancient languages. I heard somewhere that anthropologists are still attempting to translate Indus valley scripts.

So unlike the Bible, Torah, or Koran, Hindu scripture is these 3 combined times 100, and that's probably an underestimate. Others like Saidevo or Atanu can elaborate.

dhruva023
14 June 2009, 04:25 PM
Thats too bad. Hinduism being as rich in spirituality as it is should be more open to outsiders.

Dear SS, Please try to understand what he is saying. He is trying to say that there is no need to officially convert yourself. You will become Hindu when you think you are Hindu. There is no any official ceremony that will convert you into Hindu. However, if you feel that you need to get converted officially then contact Arya Samaj. No Conversion doesn't mean No Welcome, and no buddy is going to tell you that you can't enter because you are not Hindu. I think the problem is that you are keep looking at Hinduism from the Islam's point of view. This is not some kind of cult that you JOIN. Hinduism let you say that you are Hindu and Muslim. How much more openness do you want?


What about those in Malaysia who are hindus. What about Bangledesh? Yet there are Malaysians that converted to hinduism. Not to mentioned Thai Hindus.

What about them? Did anybody said that only Indian can be Hindu? How are you relating conversion here?

Spiritualseeker
14 June 2009, 05:07 PM
I don't think you've truly grasped the vastness of scripture. Besides all the Sanskrit scriptures, there are others written in more regional languages. Since i'm a bit familiar with Tamil, I'll give you a couple of examples. The Thirmanthiram by Saint Tirumoolar has at least 3400 verses. The tiruvacagam translated into English by Alexander Pope (I bought a copy some 30 years back) is very lengthy. The Agamas are huge. Sometimes it has been one man's lifetime progect to translate these things. And I'm sure that there are other sacred scriptures in other ancient languages. I heard somewhere that anthropologists are still attempting to translate Indus valley scripts.

So unlike the Bible, Torah, or Koran, Hindu scripture is these 3 combined times 100, and that's probably an underestimate. Others like Saidevo or Atanu can elaborate.


Yes I think I am not grasping it too well. Because I am thinking of the scriptures like the Quran. Thats why this issue is so important to me. Because in the Quran If I rejected the verse about wife beating and if my feelings towards the verse was that the verse is not right and I dont think anyone should follow it then I would instantly be branded a kafir (one who covers the truth or aka a disbeliever). So in Islam its all your nothing. You either accept it and believe that even that verse about wife beating is the best way to live since it is revealed by "Allah".

So perhaps thats why when I heard about negative verses in scriptures I got upset.



Dear SS, Please try to understand what he is saying. He is trying to say that there is no need to officially convert yourself. You will become Hindu when you think you are Hindu. There is no any official ceremony that will convert you into Hindu. However, if you feel that you need to get converted officially then contact Arya Samaj. No Conversion doesn't mean No Welcome, and no buddy is going to tell you that you can't enter because you are not Hindu. I think the problem is that you are keep looking at Hinduism from the Islam's point of view. This is not some kind of cult that you JOIN. Hinduism let you say that you are Hindu and Muslim. How much more openness do you want?


Maybe I misunderstood. Perhaps the label isnt important. I just want to be able to go to a group of HIndus and sit with them and learn and worship along with them. Without anyone saying "your a wannabe hindu get out of here" etc.. HOpefully that wont happen. I just remember a rude hindu in highschool who would say things like that. I will have to find a guru. I dont know where to look or how to find one. But maybe ill ask around a temple.

Thanks for the clarification
-juan

dhruva023
14 June 2009, 07:06 PM
I would suggest you to stop trying to understand everything at once. It will confuse you since you are not at that level yet. Instead, read and try to understand only one scripture at a time. For example take Shrimad Bhagavad Gita. Start reading it and understanding it. Once you understand it everything will start becoming clearer to you.
I have attached link to some videos, you might want to take a look at them. I recommend you to watch all the episodes after this episode. Remember some English words might seem strange. The reason is there are just not enough words in English that can describe some Sanskrit words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93QgfpVQU3U



btw, I am not saying you should not ask questions.!! :)

Spiritualseeker
14 June 2009, 07:47 PM
Excellent information :) I will definately try to take my time and look at the videos. I also just recently purchased the bhagavad gita explained in audio book form though when I try to listen to it I am at work and get busy so I have to shut it off. But ILl definately be checking out these videos and perhaps setting aside some time throughout the day to listen to the audio book.

Thanks a lot for the kind reply :)

Namaste

devotee
14 June 2009, 09:33 PM
Namaste SS,

Dhruva has given you a very good advice & EM has correctly stated the vastness of scriptures within Hinduism.

I think a lifetime is not sufficient to read & understand all the scriptures within Hinduism. It is not advisable as well. It is more important to understand than to keep on reading & getting confused. If you keep on reading without having deep understanding you are sure to suffer from "Spiritual Indigestion" !

Bhagwad Gita, though Smriti, is the best scripture to start your journey & if you understand it correctly you won't need any other scripture on your spiritual journey.

Regarding Guru, my advice is to accept a Guru only after ascertaining that he is God-realised. There are many fake gurus available & you must take adequate precaution to save yourself from their nefarious designs. Don't be in a hurry. You can accept Bhagwad Gita as your teacher till you find your Guru in human body. You attract people who match your spiritual vibrations. Let the vibration go a little higher when you may be able to attract a really good Guru.

Best wishes ...

OM

Spiritualseeker
15 June 2009, 06:27 AM
Namaste,

Thank you. I will start with Bhagavad Gita. Do you know where I could find Smriti in a hardbook copy? Are there any ones with explanation?

When I was listening to my audio book on bhagavad gita explained I think it was giving the attributes of a true guru ill have to relisten to it and take notes.

:)

OM GAM GANAPATYE NAMAHA

devotee
15 June 2009, 07:10 AM
Namaste SS,



Thank you. I will start with Bhagavad Gita. Do you know where I could find Smriti in a hardbook copy? Are there any ones with explanation?

Forget about Smriti, I should not have used this term. Smiriti is not the name of any book. Actually, Bhagwad Gita is a Smriti. Smriti are scriptures which are based on Vedas/Shrutis (as heard). Smriti means , "(based on) memory".


When I was listening to my audio book on Bhagavad Gita explained I think it was giving the attributes of a true guru ill have to relisten to it and take notes.


Go slowly with Bhagwad Gita. Its meaning goes very deep. There are many explanations available. You may go through them & try to understand.

OM

TatTvamAsi
16 June 2009, 09:45 PM
It makes me realize that I am just a small drop in the ocean of only reality which is Brahman.

Regards,
reflections.

Well put!

That is the crux of Hindu philosophy. Negation of the apparent self and realization of the real Self!

Aum Shanti Shanti Shantihi!

Namaskar.