PDA

View Full Version : Namaste



eriko
22 June 2009, 09:35 AM
Isn't converting to Hinduism banned? I have read this on several sites. Please explain.

Eastern Mind
22 June 2009, 01:14 PM
Perhaps you are referring to the unethical conversion tactics used by some Christian missionaries that are banned in some states, such as widespread distribution of pamphlets, basically hate literature against Hindus. But no, as far as I know, conversion to Hinduism is not banned.Aum Namasivaya

Znanna
22 June 2009, 09:21 PM
Banned by whom?

And, not for nothing, but "conversion to Hinduism" is kinda of a oxymoron, to my eye ... how can one "convert" to something which is ineffable? Conversion is so an evangelical "Christian" term ... holy mixing metaphors, Batman!


ZN

eriko
23 June 2009, 03:10 AM
I am not against converting to Hinduism. Actually I think it is very cool. But what I read was that Hinduism is not just a religion, but science, literature and philosophy and all that stuff, so it seems very unpractical to convert to Hinduism. I am not saying this but I read this somewhere.

I have also read somewhere, which could be rumor, that Sang Parivar or some other Hindu group is trying to ban conversions internationally. I read this on Wikipedia. And also that their weren't any conversion policies till much later and that too in the South, not in the North. This too was written on Wikipedia.

But now I think Wiki is not really trustworthy, if it writes anything it wants.

Eastern Mind
23 June 2009, 08:01 AM
Well, I am a convert, sort of. Strictly speaking, conversion means that you have to give up something beforehand, like if you convert to vegetarianism, you give up meat. For me personally, I had no previous religion, so there was nothing to convert from, so I am called an adoptive.

People are correct when they state that there is no need to 'convert'. One can just start living as a Hindu. Eventually you will be Hindu. Many leaders of various sects have differing opinions on all of this, or course.

Personally speaking, I had some problems with this method. The first was the name. I just find it odd when a person named Muhammed says he's a Christian, or Isaiah claims to be Buddhist. Just odd, nothing else. Like a fish out of water. There are several examples of this in Islam ... Muhammed Ali, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and the singer who was formerly Cat Stevens. In the Sri Lankan community I am familiar with, many keep their Hindu names when they become Christian, so you have a Natharajah Sivalingam going to church, and on the member roll of Catholicism. Not wrong, just odd. When you get introduced, you automatically assume the fellow is Hindu. Having a Hindu name, in practice, actually helps, with things like acceptance by the Hindu community, entrance into temples, etc. The process also marks your sincerity to yourself, your friends, and the community.

Another reason is mental conflict. This has more to do with giving up the previous religion than to receiving the new one. A true conversion, in my opinion, is complete. You can't be a little of both without mental conflict. A universalist will disagree. Take going to heaven, versus reincarnation, for example. Well, which wife are you married to? The mind would be jumping back and forth at the time of death. Mental confusion. We are on the path of stilling the mind, not accelerating it.

The third reason is mystical. Most of the intellectual, non-mystical schools of Hinduism won`t see this at all. I believe in God, and devas. Devas are the inner beings that help us. Former friends or family on the astral plane, that on the inside are helping us all the time, or the Mahadevas themselves. Suppose you are destined to have a flat tire somewhere on a road in India. If the Hindu devas are helping you, that flat tire will happen right in front of a beautiful Ganesha temple. If the angels of Catholicism are helping, you will stop at a shrine to the Virgin Mary. If the asuras are around you because of poor lifestyle, weakened will, or seed karmas coming to fruition, you`ll have two flat tires. So it`s important to be connected to other worlds in this way.

Here is another simple analogy or story to understand unseen worlds existence. I am a gardener by hobby, at the temple I go to. People will come by and tell me that the flower bed needs watering. They see the surface, and the surface only. I know I watered it one hour before. As soon as the surface is scratched, you find moist soil. But they see only the dry part. Or they will say `nice rain we got last night, you don`t need to water,`` and as soon as you dig you find dry soil within the first inch. the rainwater got to the stem, but not the roots where it needs to get to.

So the point is that our observation «and normal awareness only scratches the surface of what is actually going on around us.

Aum Namasivaya

eriko
23 June 2009, 10:41 AM
Thanks for sharing this. I am really glad that converting to Hinduism is not banned. Not that I had anything to loose, since I am Hindu by birth. But it feels good.

I did not quite understand the thing about mental conflict. Though, I do agree that conversion should be complete.

As for the other world. I believe only in Karma. And demigods to me are very irritating. But these are just my thoughts. But as you said that non-mystical/intellectual would not believe this. I need to have logic to believe anything and I feel karma is the only logic.

But anyways thanks for sharing this. If I comment anymore -smiling- I would end just end up contradicting you.

reflections
23 June 2009, 12:24 PM
Namaste eriko,
Welcome :)
BTW, there are no demigods in Hinduism(In my understanding), there are only gods(devas as stated by Eastern-mind) i.e. different manifestation of Brahman.
There are some Hindu converts on the forum, so conversion to Hinduism is not banned :)
I would even support if a Hindu wants to convert to other tradition for purely spiritual reasons, what I dislike is conversion of poor villagers to Christianity by means of financial benefits.

Eastern Mind
23 June 2009, 01:46 PM
I did not quite understand the thing about mental conflict. Though, I do agree that conversion should be complete.



What I mean by this is when the mind tries to hold two opposing views at the same time. Suppose you are a fan of two different cricket teams, but then they end up playing in the championship. You don't know what to do, which is confusion, or as I termed, mental conflict. Different religions, different sects even, do hold opposing or differing beliefs. Its just not healthy, that's all. hope this clarifies it somewhat.

Aum Namasivaya

eriko
24 June 2009, 12:38 AM
BTW, there are no demigods in Hinduism(In my understanding), there are only gods(devas as stated by Eastern-mind) i.e. different manifestation of Brahman.

No offense but I read this in the Bhagvad Gita (Krishna Counciousness). In which it said that all Gods are DemiGods except Krishna, but of course it means Devas. I don't think there is any difference between the two.


There are some Hindu converts on the forum, so conversion to Hinduism is not banned :)


Yeah, frankly I was a bit surprised. But it is cool.


I would even support if a Hindu wants to convert to other tradition for purely spiritual reasons, what I dislike is conversion of poor villagers to Christianity by means of financial benefits.


Same here. Great minds think alike.


What I mean by this is when the mind tries to hold two opposing views at the same time. Suppose you are a fan of two different cricket teams, but then they end up playing in the championship. You don't know what to do, which is confusion, or as I termed, mental conflict. Different religions, different sects even, do hold opposing or differing beliefs. Its just not healthy, that's all. hope this clarifies it somewhat.

Yes I got it now. Thanks.

Ganeshprasad
24 June 2009, 07:49 AM
Pranam


No offense but I read this in the Bhagvad Gita (Krishna Counciousness). In which it said that all Gods are DemiGods except Krishna, but of course it means Devas. I don't think there is any difference between the two.
.

Can you quote the verse in Bhagvat Gita where it says all gods are demigod.

Vedas talk about 33 Devas ultimately Yagnvalkya says there is only one
you should read up on,
Yajyavalkya Kanda - Sakalya Brahmana, in the Brihardarayanka Upanishad.

Devas= Divine, Demigod =half god, there is no comparison,

Vayu is a deva if he is half god then you would be half dead.
Indra is the King of Gods, Agni is the God of Fire, Sarasvati is the Goddess of Knowledge ~ there is NO half-measure about it.
i hope you get the point

Jai Shree Krishna

Znanna
24 June 2009, 05:11 PM
Namaste,

To reiterate the point above,

Godz is/are, if you accept divinity.


ZN

Ganeshprasad
25 June 2009, 03:17 AM
Pranam


Namaste,

To reiterate the point above,

Godz is/are, if you accept divinity.


ZN


It is not a question of accepting, as far as Vedas are concerned they are divine.

of course its another matter if one chooses to accept the authority of Vedas or not.

Jai Shree Krishna

eriko
25 June 2009, 03:38 AM
Sorry I got a bit busy. Anyways...


Can you quote the verse in Bhagvat Gita where it says all gods are demigod.

Bhagvad Gita As It IS by AC Bhaktivedanta Praphupada; Second Edition

Chapter Seven: Knowledge Of Absolute Pg-321

TEXT 20 (pg-349): Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

TEXT 21 (pg-350): I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship some demigod, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to that particular deity.

TEXT 22 (pg-351 to 352): Endowed with such faith, he endeavors to worship a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

TEXT 23 (pg-352): Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.


Vedas talk about 33 Devas ultimately Yagnvalkya says there is only one you should read up on, Yajyavalkya Kanda - Sakalya Brahmana, in the Brihardarayanka Upanishad.Sorry I am not familiar with all this. But if I get a chance and some time, I will do look up into this.


Devas= Divine, Demigod =half god, there is no comparison,

Vayu is a deva if he is half god then you would be half dead.
Indra is the King of Gods, Agni is the God of Fire, Sarasvati is the Goddess of Knowledge ~ there is NO half-measure about it. I hope you get the point.I do. But now I am more confused.


Godz is/are, if you accept divinity.

I only believe in karma and Krishna. But please will somebody explain what divinity exactly is?

Ganeshprasad
25 June 2009, 06:46 AM
Pranam

You said in Bhagvat Gita and I quote No offence but I read this in the Bhagvad Gita (Krishna Consciousness). In which it said that all Gods are DemiGods except Krishna. Unquote.

Your statement would have us believe that Krishna has said it, far from it, Lord Krishna does not say so nor does he condemn their worship.

They are all ,referred to as ‘devas’ by Lord Krishna. Fact that Prabhupad chose to substitute deva as Demigod does not make it so. Demigod is not a substitute word for Deva, if it was, Krishna or Vishnu would fall in to the same category, they are also addressed as Deva in Vedas.

Those slokas translation provided by you in so call As it is, are far from the truth, the author has tried to denigrate the Devas but the truth of the matter is, that material desire of a person is condemned and not the worship of devas in it self.
I can provide you with verses in Gita where Krishna is actually telling us to worship them, what to speak of Vedas which is the final authority in Hindu Dharma, are full of Deva worship.

Let me just point out the verse no 23 provided by you, in particular the first line, if you ask any independent source, will confirm that the first line in that sloka, there is no mention of Deva, so much for As it is!

Jai Shree Krishna

eriko
25 June 2009, 10:18 AM
You said in Bhagvat Gita and I quote No offence but I read this in the Bhagvad Gita (Krishna Consciousness). In which it said that all Gods are DemiGods except Krishna. Unquote.

I apologize I should have been better in my wording. My sincerest apologizes.


Your statement would have us believe that Krishna has said it, far from it, Lord Krishna does not say so nor does he condemn their worship.Well, I am just sixteen and my knowledge is very limited.


They are all, referred to as ‘devas’ by Lord Krishna. Fact that Prabhupad chose to substitute deva as Demigod does not make it so. Demigod is not a substitute word for Deva, if it was, Krishna or Vishnu would fall in to the same category, they are also addressed as Deva in Vedas.All right, now let me quote my own words:


No offense but I read this in the Bhagvad Gita (Krishna Counciousness). In which it said that all Gods are DemiGods except Krishna, but of course it means Devas. I don't think there is any difference between the two.


Those slokas translation provided by you in so call As it is, are far from the truth, the author has tried to denigrate the Devas but the truth of the matter is, that material desire of a person is condemned and not the worship of devas in it self.Well. I never said anything about worship. You only asked me for the quotes and I did that.


I can provide you with verses in Gita where Krishna is actually telling us to worship them, what to speak of Vedas which is the final authority in Hindu Dharma, are full of Deva worship.I am not against their worship. There was never a question of worship.


Let me just point out the verse no 23 provided by you, in particular the first line, if you ask any independent source, will confirm that the first line in that sloka, there is no mention of Deva, so much for As it s!I am sorry but aren't you coming a little hard on me. I haven't altered anything here.

Jai Shree Krishna

Ganeshprasad
25 June 2009, 10:53 AM
Pranam eriko



I am not against their worship. There was never a question of worship.

so what was this in aid off

As for the other world. I believe only in Karma. And demigods to me are very irritating.



I am sorry but aren't you coming a little hard on me. I haven't altered anything here.

Jai Shree Krishna

I am sorry if you feel like that was not my intention, i was only commenting as to what you had provided as evidence.
i will say sorry again, i have no intention to be against you, its only that Demigod has no place in Hindu dharam, that is what i was speking against.

Jai Shree Krishna

Spiritualseeker
25 June 2009, 01:17 PM
Namaste,

What happends if we become enlightened? Will we be gods? If we are not separate from the Gods than are we already Gods? Who AM I!!!!

Ganeshprasad
25 June 2009, 02:13 PM
Pranam


Namaste,

Who AM I!!!!

Now that is a great start, this is when our spiritual journey begins, in the search of truth, once embarked on it there is no stopping it, sure there will be obstacles ups and downs, our resolve will be tasted to the hilt.
But I have a faith eventually we will get there.




What happends if we become enlightened? Will we be gods? If we are not separate from the Gods than are we already Gods?

I cant answer you that because I have no answer, and depending on what school of thought you will have slightly different answers, you will find there are a lot of Adwaita followers on this site, even they do not always agree amongst each other.

And I keep asking my self how can I become something that I am not I.e. god?

I do not understand the complexity of all the concepts that exist in sanatan dharma but I respect Hindu mind set because all of them are based on Dharmic acharan.

I am of the opinion that it is best to follow Dharma and worry about what is awaiting us at the other end.

If its any consolation I have great faith in what Krishna say

na tv evaham jatu nasam
na tvam neme janadhipah
na caiva na bhavisyamah
sarve vayam atah param

Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. 2.12.
 
 
Jai Shree Krishna

eriko
25 June 2009, 10:59 PM
so what was this in aid off

Well but there was more to what I said.


As for the other world. I believe only in Karma. And demigods to me are very irritating. But these are just my thoughts.

I never said that to argue against anyone's beliefs. I guess I am entitled to believe in whatever I want to. And so are you.


I am sorry if you feel like that was not my intention, i was only commenting as to what you had provided as evidence.
i will say sorry again, i have no intention to be against you, its only that Demigod has no place in Hindu dharam, that is what i was speking against.


It is okay. I understand that. But anyways thanks. An arguement is always welcome and I learnt something from this.

atanu
17 July 2009, 10:23 AM
Banned by whom?

And, not for nothing, but "conversion to Hinduism" is kinda of a oxymoron, to my eye ... how can one "convert" to something which is ineffable? Conversion is so an evangelical "Christian" term ... holy mixing metaphors, Batman!

ZN
:D

Hi Zn,

How do get such similes as similes? It brings smile. Batman! What a comparison? Bat also and Man also. haha,

Znanna
17 July 2009, 05:33 PM
Thanks for getting my joke :)






ZN

atanu
17 July 2009, 09:20 PM
Thanks for getting my joke :)
ZN

Thanks are due to you, for the subtle and lasting.

Om