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Spiritualseeker
25 June 2009, 01:27 PM
Namaste,

Sometimes I like to enjoy some hot Sake, in hinduism is this considered unlawful or is it allowed?

Eastern Mind
25 June 2009, 01:38 PM
Unlawful, allowed, disallowed, forbidden, taboo ... these are more western concepts, not so much in the Eastern paths. most Hindus wouldn't drink much, out of their own developed common sense, not so much as because of being told not to. Its a path of self inquiry. So my advice would be to drink some, then try meditating, or thinking clearly, and see how it goes for you.

Aum Namasivaya

Spiritualseeker
25 June 2009, 02:03 PM
Namaste,

I understand :)

RamaRaksha
04 July 2009, 12:43 PM
I agree - it is not the alcohol that is the problem but how your behaviour changes due to it. If after consuming alcohol you become rude, unruly and abusive towards others, then you should stay away from it. But if you know your limits and stay within those limits, then consuming it should be fine.

amra
05 July 2009, 09:51 AM
What do the scriptures say of this matter?

Is the Eastern path really the path of self-enquiry or is this the view of the east we in the west have projected on the East due to our lack of mediated interiority here in the west? Are we as individuals competent to make decisions as to whether we should drink, do we know ourselves that well that we can make an appropriate decision. Or is this delusion, do we need instruction in these matters?

I understand these are questions many people will not like to think of because they see the east as the 'other' all the things lacking in the west are projected onto the 'east'. The east and India becomes the solution to all the problems of western materiality, well i am afraid this view is not in accordance with reality.

Eastern Mind
05 July 2009, 03:26 PM
What do the scriptures say of this matter?



I am not sure if this question is rhetorical, or an actual question. perhaps someone who is more familiar with scripture than me can let us know. Or perhaps Amra, you know the answer. Please let me know. I do know that the Hare Krisna sect of Vaishnavism forbids it.

Personally, I know there is a difference between alcohol and alcoholism. I've seen both. Last night I was at a somewhat western style Tamil (well, half was Tamil) wedding. There was an open bar, and very few people availed themselves to it. Mostly the younger crowd. There was also wine for toasting at the reception. I had a sip after the toast, but didn't imbibe the whole glass.

Aum Namasivaya

Anicca
10 July 2009, 04:09 PM
In Buddhadhamma there is the five precepts taken by laymen and women (and monks)

To refrain from killing

To refrain from steeling

To refrain from Sexual Misconduct

To refrain from lying or abusive speech

To refrain from drink and drugs


The first four are the cause of unwholesome kamma while the last one isnt unwholesome on its own but can lead to breaking one or more of the other four


There is a buddhist story about this

Once there was a monk meditating in a cave when the demon Mara appeared before him. Mara then conjured a warrior, a woman and some wine. He then said to the monk that he must either kill the warrior, have sex with the woman or drink the wine. If he doesnt do any of these then Mara would kill the monk.

The monk thought about it, he knew that any of these acts would be breaking the precepts he had took but he decided to do the one that was least unwholesome so he drank the wine......

then killed the warrior and had sex with the woman


The general teaching on drink and drugs is that while its not wrong or evil to drink, it leads to carelessness that causes worse behaviour later on. Not to mention the clouding of the mind and the set back that causes in meditation practice and also the bodies health

In essence one isnt creating unwholesome kamma when having a drink but they are taking a risk since it can (and usually does) lead to unwholesome kamma through body, speech and mind as well as the health issue


hope this was of some use

metta

OmSriShivaShakti
26 July 2009, 01:27 PM
A person's logical mind is one of the greatest things about the human race, so anything that clouds the mind in its resoning and thinking like consuming alcohol and/or hallucinogenic drugs should be discouraged or prohibited.

TatTvamAsi
26 July 2009, 11:09 PM
A person's logical mind is one of the greatest things about the human race, so anything that clouds the mind in its resoning and thinking like consuming alcohol and/or hallucinogenic drugs should be discouraged or prohibited.

An excellent pithy statement!

OmSriShivaShakti
27 July 2009, 09:41 AM
Thank you.

connyxoberst
06 August 2009, 03:10 PM
A person's logical mind is one of the greatest things about the human race, so anything that clouds the mind in its resoning and thinking like consuming alcohol and/or hallucinogenic drugs should be discouraged or prohibited.

various religions and groups of people have used hallucinogenics for thousands of years with the purpose of becoming closer to their spirituality. the thought being that they allow you to see and feel things that your conscious mind cannot. things that can only be felt and understood through dreams and the sub conscious. i personally never drink for the reason that it makes you do things that shouldnt be done. i may have ONE drink once every couple months socially [i am 21] but i never get drunk.
however the rare times i have taken a hallucinogenic it was the time that i felt the closest to the universe. being able to see the energies of everything. the 'live' energies of plants and animals and people and also the karmic energies attached to different inanimate objects. i could feel the waves of the universe pass through me, even see my own aura. which if anyone is curious was a bright shiny gold that when i moved reflected rainbows as if the light passing though it made a prism. any negativity that happens during an experience like that is due to ones own negative energies affecting it. its like all of the universe's powers are magnified during the process.
this is the only drug i've ever ingested. i do not associate with people who do drugs, they kill your soul faster than anything i've ever seen.


i'm sorry, i know i'm new and i really hope that i did not just cause a black opinion of me to all of you.

Eastern Mind
07 August 2009, 12:33 PM
connyx: Which hallucinogen, if you don't mind me asking?

Firstly, we Hindus don't normally judge on such things. You did what you did, and learned something. (We would judge on obviously adharmic things like adultery or murder.) Of course, not everyone will agree.

The explanation for mind altering drug use is generally that they are temporal only, and if you want to permanently be able to access such states with clarity and purpose, you have no choice but to turn within. Become the meditater, and over time, these states will come, although they are not to be sought after. Only through the grace of a Satguru. They are also usually illegal, which also puts you in a sort of in-between state of mind in your subconscious.

I think that historically there is no doubt that the use of hallucinogens in the 1960s led many souls eastward.

Hope this helps.

Aum Namasivaya

connyxoberst
08 August 2009, 08:22 PM
it was the super drug of the 60s. lsd. it was actually what sparked my whole 'hindu thinking' the first time i did it i was just thinking about my life and how chaotic it was and how none of it made sense to me. but all the sudden, it just did. i could understand my father's childhood and his amount of pain he had when he had me. i could understand how him taking his pain out on me affected the choices that i made, i understood how all of my bad choices let me to that point and through every situation, in my own mind i could see the various types of energies moving from one person to another. it made me realize how wise and balanced the universe actually is. before then i was convinced that god hated me. or whatever 'god' was. seriously, i thought that he absolutely despised me. but being able to actually see how it all worked... it at least gave me great respect for everything around me. that night lead to months of writing, filling note books on the subject. since then i've done it a handful of times and each time i had a new epiphany about my life or the universe as a whole.

i've read other westerners reference 'dipping toes into the eastern lifestyle' but i feel as though i'm drowning in it. and its felt that way since i was as young as i can remember. being taught christianity left me with a hole inside of myself that i thought would never be filled. at 6 i had the most disturbing dream that made me renounce christianity all together. i was climbing a huge mountain and when i was just a step more from the top, i slipped. hanging from one hand. i looked up and saw the devil reaching down to me telling me he'd help me up. i looked down and saw jesus with his arms held out saying he'd catch me. i let go and fell and fell and fell and right before i was to land safely in his arms he let me fall. he looked down into the hole i was laying in and walked away. i asked tons of people of various religions to explain this dream to me. the devoted christians looked like they were slapped when i said the last part of the dream.
of course now i realize that it meant that the 'god' and 'devil' dont exist. that in a way, we are our own gods. we control our own personal universe and i was supposed to rely on myself to get up, not them.
then a month or 2 later started the 5 years of funerals. i must have went to 23 funerals between 6 and 11. i've met people who have only been to one. and when my parents would ask me if i was sad, i would say a little, but he/she will live again so its not all bad.
my dad spent years telling me this wasnt true, but my thoughts wouldnt budge.
jeez and then when i bought the bindies, all hell broke loose. then the devil was after me trying to manipulate me away from the truth. false idol worship was against the commandments so what was i doing?
then the ghosts came. i would see them walking around certain places. they'd follow me. attach onto me. make me dream about their deaths. i told my dad i saw a woman who died who i was VERY close to. he told me this was a demon taking the form of her to draw me away from what god says.
but i new it was her soul that wasnt able to move to the in between yet for whatever reason.
my first suicide attempt was at 7. i remember thinking about how this life time is garbage already and just wanting to move onto my next one already.
at 8 i had a babysitter who went to our kingdom hall [JW] and she about had a heart attack when she saw her son and i sitting cross legged with our eyes closed saying 'oooohhhmmmmmmmmm'
while my friends were swearing on their parents graves who were still alive, or making up excuses for things by making up something horrible, i refused, telling them they are bringing on bad things.
i was the protector of all the kids in my school who really got picked on relentlessly.
i was the person who always felt everyone elses emotions to the point where i didnt know which feelings were truly my own. to be seated next to someone crying, makes me on the verge of tears. to see someone flip out makes me short tempered and irritable the rest of the day. i could feel their energies so strongly that they bled into mine.
people would tell me their problems and i would lay out step by step of exactly what they needed to do to achieve whatever goal was attached to that situation. i would tell them exactly what would happen if they didnt follow this. and always my friends would come back demanding to know how i knew it would happen, after they ignored my advice.
i dont know how to word this or what it even means, but i've never felt purely human. i've always felt higher than that. i wish i knew how to explain that further.

and as i said before, i've never been influenced by this religion. i even worked for a fashion company called 'star of india fashions' and all of the higher ups were from india. i worked very closely with them day after day, but they never shared knowledge of their religion with me. there were no children of indian decent that went to my school.

and now recently discovering that all of 'my own' thoughts are really actually hindu is making me feel like i'm even deeper under water.

when i took acid was the one and only time things made sense. its the only time i felt like i could think and be who my soul truly is. its the only time i was able to feel feelings that were purely my own. and each time my aura was bright gold, which i've read means being in a state of high enlightenment.
i have tried meditation my whole life. but the only thing it was capable of doing was to calm me down and bring my center back. writing allowed me to achieve more knowledge on life than meditation. i of course am hoping that this changes over time.

Eastern Mind
08 August 2009, 08:57 PM
These are my opinions only, and may not reflect the rest of the people here.

One of the initial teachings of most Hindu teachers is to stay grounded. There are several ways to do this. One is by developing an art form, especially with your hands. Another is to work the land, as in gardening.

The mystical side can be 'dangerous' and needs to have proper guidelines, and a well versed Guru of mysticism. I share many of your insights (and the catalyst, although that was almost 40 years ago now). But the spiritual path is one of stability. You seem to be catching on quite well.

The Indian people you worked with may not have known their religion very well. What you speak of is the mystical side. Many Hindus today are leaning toward the intellectual side. There is some common meeting place, but not a whole lot, unfortunately.

Now that you are free from your past, you can continue along. I hope you can find a temple to go to. They can be very mystical magical places.

Aum Namasivaya