PDA

View Full Version : Things that make you wonder.



satay
02 July 2009, 05:05 PM
Sometimes things happen in your life that make you wonder.

Last year, we took a short three day trip to Minneapolis. I am fond of driving on the US freeways and generally have a soft spot for the US so when my wife made the suggestion for this trip I had no problems accepting her suggestion. We packed the cooler with water, packed our bags and drove to Minneapolis. Because I had never visited the city before, I decided to check on the internet for tourist spots and such. Also, googled to see if there was a hindu temple in the city. I didn’t really think that we would have time to visit the temple because our visit was going to be short three days and it is a long bit of drive from our home town in Canada but printed out the directions to the temple anyway.

We did our tourist and shopping thing for the most part. Generally, I am not a temple goer kind of guy. But for some reason once I was in MN, I really wanted to find the temple not because I really wanted to visit the temple for any spiritual reasons but probably because the google maps showed it on a dead end road. I was thinking to myself why would the temple be on a dead end road way outside of the metro area. Google maps must be wrong…

Following the google map directions that I had printed out, I got lost and just couldn’t find the temple. Then the next morning, something drove me again 45 miles away from our hotel room and I found myself looking for the temple again. This time, however, I found the little seemingly abandoned road and after the twists and turns the road took to me to a beautiful structure which indeed is the Hindu temple in Minnesota! Wow, I was surprised to see the beautiful architecture in the middle of nowhere or what my wife told me were corn fields. Building was still under construction though there was no one around. I parked and spotted the entrance but the doors were locked. Ah…it was around 12 pm. I was now more curious and wanted to see the architecture inside but just couldn’t find anyone around that could tell me the temple hours. It turns out that the temple is actually (10 mins or so) off of the same route that we would take to go back to Canada. We decide that if time permits in the morning that we would take the excursion on our way back to Canada.

Next day, we find ourselves in front of the temple one last time. It is around 1:30 pm, my wife and daughter are holding the offerings and I think to myself, surely, the temple is open now or someone must be around because it is past the lunch hour. But it wasn’t meant to be. We find ourselves standing in front of the locked doors once again…

Disappointed, the three of us walk back to our van and drive home. The thought of this temple or this incident never again entered my mind till last weekend.

To be continued...

Znanna
02 July 2009, 06:38 PM
I wonder, did y'all leave the offerings on the front stoop, anyways?

Perhaps your venture was a sign to the officialdom types...

ZN

Spiritualseeker
05 July 2009, 06:57 AM
TELL ME MORE

satay
10 July 2009, 03:23 PM
...countinued from op...

A few months ago while we still had snow on the ground, my wife suggested that we should take another trip to Minneapolis this summer. I jumped on the suggestion, as I already mentioned due to my love of driving on US freeways. We planned that the few days before the Canada day holiday would be good be best for us. Before I knew it, we found ourselves in MN. We did our usual sight seeing and shopping things. Visiting the temple was not in my thoughts and thus not on the agenda. However, one afternoon we find our selves in an area that my wife remembers is close to the temple. I wasn’t too enthusiastic about her suggestion that we should visit the temple since we were so close by. I candidly admit that my ego was badly bruised because I wasn’t allowed darshan twice last year. This type of thing seems to happen to me all the time. I wonder if this is due to karma. My intentions are good when approaching a temple but more often than not, I end up without darshan for whatever reason.

It turns out that the MN temple was having a big ‘opening ceremony’ of the temple the weekend we arrived in MN. We didn’t find this out until we arrived at the temple grounds. The dead end road, to which the temple is attached, was full of parked cars, a long line perhaps longer than a kilometer out was ahead of me. We parked and started walking towards the temple. When we finally arrived there, it was buzzing with activity. It seemed like we had just missed the havan and the preparations were going on for the ‘yatra’ of the deities. We approached a person and asked what was going on and found that we were attending day 2 of the opening ceremony of the temple. Murthis have been invoked and tomorrow there will be a yatra around the temple compound. We had the most beautiful darshan and accidently became part of the ceremonies.

We decided that we will return the next day to be part of the yatra. As fate would have it, we couldn’t make it for that. I thought that our karma to have darshan had expended.

Two days later, we are heading back home and yes, we decide to stop by the temple on the way out of MN. It is around noon time again and I am not expecting the temple to be open. To our surprise, not only the temple was open, but we ended up being part of a puja of the main deity of the temple. We didn’t realize at the time but it seems like a couple who had just got married was getting a special puja done. We accidently became part of that and ended up taking parsadam on that day.

So this is the amazing part. I wonder about these things the way they happen. Is it karma that we were not allowed darshan last year? Is it fate that we ended up by chance scheduling our vacation on the days that were in alignment with the temple opening ceremonies? How did we end up in the same area of the temple anyway since I never intended to visit the temple to begin with? As a hindu, I intuitively know the answers to these questions but these things still make me wonder…and make me scratch my head.

<end>

satay
10 July 2009, 03:31 PM
namaste,


I wonder, did y'all leave the offerings on the front stoop, anyways?

No, we didn't leave anything on the steps.



Perhaps your venture was a sign to the officialdom types...

ZN

I don't follow what you are saying here...

Eastern Mind
10 July 2009, 04:34 PM
We had the most beautiful darshan and accidently became part of the ceremonies.


As a hindu, I intuitively know the answers to these questions but these things still make me wonder…and make me scratch my head.

<end>
In my opinion it was no accident. Nice story. Thanks for getting around to sharing it.
Yes of course it makes you scratch your head. The inner workings of devas, our own intuition etc., are happening all the time, just we're not so aware. The more these things happen, in my opinion, the more you just get used to it.

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
10 July 2009, 09:03 PM
...
So this is the amazing part. I wonder about these things the way they happen. Is it karma that we were not allowed darshan last year? Is it fate that we ended up by chance scheduling our vacation on the days that were in alignment with the temple opening ceremonies? How did we end up in the same area of the temple anyway since I never intended to visit the temple to begin with? As a hindu, I intuitively know the answers to these questions but these things still make me wonder…and make me scratch my head.

<end>

Namaste,

May be ZN is pointing to a possible official responsibilty for care of the temple. I am also waiting for ZN.

Last year we had some fierce discussion on Guru. Shri Sarabhanga (and also Shri MahaHrada) took turns to impress that without a living Guru, the path would always be dark. Mental beings that we are, doubts are natural.

Last year around June, I was asked to relocate to Delhi from a place called Rajahmundry in Andhra Pradesh, from where I visited Ramana Asramam and Arunachala Shiva on weekends every 2-3 months. Because I was relocating, I thought that I should visit Tiruvannamalai, as visit from Delhi might be rarer.

So, I landed up in Tiruvannamalai. My usual hotel informed me that there was no vacancy as the day was Guru Purnima. Some how, I managed a small room. THe night was a revelation. On Purnimas (full moon day) many people make a pradakshina around Shiva, standing as the hill there. I have done so on many occassions but this was the first time to see the 14-16 Km road fully packed.

Like tooth paste emerges from the tube, so in laminar flow a continuous stream of people were moving -- barely half a feet separating one person from another. And this would continue for the night. For me the pradakshina lasts about 5 hours and during that time I was in a laminar flow of people. Smooth and cool -- no one touched another though.

It is not like many humans moving, it is truly God furling like a continuous piece of silk. The yatra confirmed to me that Guru is powerful enough to be as effective (if not more) in unembodied form.

I said thank you and came away to the shrill, chaos, and heat of Delhi.

Om Namah Shivaya

Znanna
10 July 2009, 09:09 PM
Namaste,

I was just pondering the notion of finding a spot which beckoned for attention, without any formality or recognition attached to it.

It sounds like it worked for you, which is what matters; my pondering has nothing to do with that!


ZN

atanu
10 July 2009, 09:25 PM
During the time, EM wrote his beautiful travelogue, a pining rose in me. I often sighed and moaned "When would I sit in the asrama again and recharge the cool spring of the mind. The heat, shrill and roughness of Delhi had taken a hit and i was badly bruised, barely able to touch the cool spring.

When, suddenly a tour materialized for Chennai. But alas, the tour was only for a day and the meeting was scheduled on a Thursday. That meant that I had to take a leave on Friday to avail the Saturday and Sunday at Tiruvannamalai. This was not possible. I was crestfallen and my colleague whom i was to accompany remarked "Perhaps, Guru does not want you there." In a meek voice i remarked "The meeting will be postponed." And lo, next morning the colleague phoned "You are great, the meeting stands postponed for a day and is scheduled on Friday same time." He even came to me and congratulated me.

I gloated with pride and related the good luck to a few people and not without a tinge of personal pride. My flight was in the early morning. I booked a cab to pick me up at 4.00 AM to go to airport, which was about 25-30 Km from my residence.

But God gives sudden jerks. The cab did not turn up and at that hour there was nothing else. In my area, me being relatively new, I did not have access to any other mode of transport. I phoned my colleague and told him that I might miss the meeting altogether that was scheduled for 10.00 AM on the same day. Then I saw a three wheeler (you will see these in India) coming from opposite direction at full throttle -- as if flying. I stopped it and the three wheeler driver agreed to take me to airport. It is very unusual to travel 30 km in a three wheeler. But this guy overtook most bigger vehicles on the way and reached airport barely half an hour before the scheduled departure of the Chennai flight.

After finishing the checkin procedures (after breaking a kilometer long que), I found that the only hand bag that i was carrying was nowhere to be found. Airport security searched for it and found it after 10 minutes. By that time my throat was dry parched. But finally, I boarded the aeroplane, full 20 minutes later than its scheduled departure time. THe plane was waiting for me and I alone was taken in a bus from the airport gate to the further tarmac -- possibly 5-6 km inside.

So, I was taken to Tiruvannamalai. I again said "Thank You."

Ramanaya Namah.

atanu
17 July 2009, 11:37 PM
Does anyone care to comment on how Shiva looks here, smiling dangerously from some one's T-Shirt?


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3992/dangerousshiva1.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dangerousshiva1.png)

Om Namah Shivaya

satay
18 July 2009, 01:08 AM
Should we ask Rajan Zed? ;)


Does anyone care to comment on how Shiva looks here, smiling dangerously from some one's T-Shirt?


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3992/dangerousshiva1.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dangerousshiva1.png)

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
18 July 2009, 02:25 AM
Should we ask Rajan Zed? ;)

Namaste satay,

Rajan's opinion/perspective might be interesting, if you can get him to comment. But i am also interested to find what we see in the picture -- in the distorted grotesque face, with unequal eyes and with a hint of devilish smile. To me it is the 'Toy Story' face, which said "See, how I f--ked you up", however, being Shiva, it is love alone. It can grant Moksha. There is a story behind, of course.

So, i thought it may be interesting to find out what we see in that face? Please oblige.

Om Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 05:43 AM
Does anyone care to comment on how Shiva looks here, smiling dangerously from some one's T-Shirt?


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3992/dangerousshiva1.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dangerousshiva1.png)

Om Namah Shivaya

Vannakam: It is you who placed the word 'dangerously'. If you had placed the word 'beautifully', or 'mischievously', surely people might react differently. Perhaps we could turn any discussion of this into the power of suggestion in words.

I've never been particularly fond of the primarily North Indian 'Shivji'. There are many many versions. Some with blue face, the third eye depicted differently, etc, etc. My preference is the 'formless' Lingam, or Natarajah. But this t-shirt thing doesn't bother me one iota. If we started worrying about God's image in the mundane areas of life, at least half the businesses in India would have to close. I mean 'Ganesha's tire shop', SivaMurugan lodge, etc. Where is dear Rajan? There is a point somewhere where I would be insulted, but I'm not sure where.

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
18 July 2009, 06:10 AM
Vannakam: It is you who placed the word 'dangerously'. If you had placed the word 'beautifully', or 'mischievously', surely people might react differently. Perhaps we could turn any discussion of this into the power of suggestion in words.

Namaste EM,

I agree. Power of suggestion cannot be neglected. This picture is related to two peculiar days of my life -- mischievous and enlightening from spiritual perspective or adverse from worldly perspective.


I've never been particularly fond of the primarily North Indian 'Shivji'. There are many many versions. ---- SivaMurugan lodge, etc. Where is dear Rajan? There is a point somewhere where I would be insulted, but I'm not sure where.

No no. There is no such feeling of insult etc. involved. And there is no comparison also. It is pure love. God may come in any form -- even as a picture. The person who is wearing the T-shirt is a kanwariya (a type of Shiva bhakta) who carry Ganga jal (water of River Ganges) on their shoulder from Rishikesh/Haridwar (in north India) to their respective place where they offer the water to shiva linga. All on their bare foot they travel hundreds of kilometers as worship and austerity in honour of their beloved Shiva. For many days traffic comes to a standstill on the roads they walk. These bhaktas do it year after year.

That is what the picture told me "atanu, you think you are a bhakta?".

And more, that is linked to the subject of this thread "Things that make you wonder". Both the perspectives, the mischievous and loving kindness are linked to my experience but in a dramatic and somewhat painful way.

Om Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 06:30 AM
The walking group pilgrimages like so much else, seem so distant. And yet, to those who do, its almost ordinary. On that 37 degree day near Tanjore when I saw those 300 or so souls walking to Palani, well ... I was impressed. I put myself, with my subconscious, into those shoes, (or lack of shoes). But two or three times now, by people who know better than I, I was told that 'that's fairly ordinary, its what they do." The camaraderie, sharing with others, must be uplifting.

I'm glad its inspired you. So I take it you are taking 6 months off, and waliking from Delhi to your beloved Tiruvanamalai? (just kidding)

Occasionally, when inspired, I walk to our temple here. It is about 6k, or 45 minute walk. I like it in mid winter.

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
18 July 2009, 07:43 AM
Namaste everyone.



So this is the amazing part. I wonder about these things the way they happen. Is it karma that we were not allowed darshan last year? Is it fate that we ended up by chance scheduling our vacation on the days that were in alignment with the temple opening ceremonies? How did we end up in the same area of the temple anyway since I never intended to visit the temple to begin with? As a hindu, I intuitively know the answers to these questions but these things still make me wonder…and make me scratch my head.


We often read in stories how God tests his devotees about the persistence of their 'bhakti'. Perhaps that was what happened to you in the MN temple incident, Satay, and being glad at the mental persistence of your family and you, God overwhelmed you with darshans and divine privileges.



But this t-shirt thing doesn't bother me one iota. If we started worrying about God's image in the mundane areas of life, at least half the businesses in India would have to close. I mean 'Ganesha's tire shop', SivaMurugan lodge, etc. Where is dear Rajan? There is a point somewhere where I would be insulted, but I'm not sure where.


It is a custom in India--more an expression of devotion mixed with the expectation of God's grace for prosperity--, specially South India to have Gods' names in the names of business ventures, just as most personal names are those of the Hindu gods.

A popular 'bidi' manufacturing company is named Managalore Ganesh Bidi Works; this company used to have the image of Genesha printed on the wrappers of their bidi packs, and the consumers, most of them labourers, would tear off the image with giving it a thought and happily puff away the contents! It seems the company still has the image in the covers and that its products have gone into the export market:
http://cgi.ebay.com/India-Old-Tin-Match-BoxHolder-501-Mangalore-Ganesh-Bidi_W0QQitemZ280364282208QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4147037160&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Another popular item is the 'Lakshmi crackers', manufactured by every cracker manufacturing unit in Shivakasi during the Deepavali times. Boys and girls rejoice, lighting up their Lakshmi cracker and watching it explode to shreds of paper.

At one end we have calendars with beautifully printed lithography images of Hindu Gods (many printing presses in Shivakasi are famous for these calendars) drawn by skilled and popular divine artists, which images are preserved, framed and used in Hindu home puja rooms. At the other end we have this seemingly offensive practice of having god images on products such as crackers and bidis. And a whole spectrum of God names permeate every alternate name of business ventures in India.

So, in what way is it wrong to have the images of Hindu gods on toilet seats or beer cans? I think the difference is in the attitude. And the truth is that non-Hindus would never be believed to have a devotional attitude in their ventures that seek to have Hindu names; and more often than not, they have no such attitude.

atanu
18 July 2009, 09:59 AM
Does anyone care to comment on how Shiva looks here, smiling dangerously from some one's T-Shirt?


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3992/dangerousshiva1.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dangerousshiva1.png)

Om Namah Shivaya

Namaste All,

This is a bit complicated and i do not know whether the message will go across or not? EM is correct that the word should have been 'mischievous' and not 'dangerous'. I actually meant mischievous, but for one reason 'dangerous' got written, though dangerous is not the correct word. The correct word is 'THE SUPREME GURU'. One will find the face and the eyes skewed in a pecuiliar fashion, as if in contempt but there is something else. This may be all in my mind but as it is linked with certain experience and rise of some understanding, i thought, it may be proper here.

I had some important task at work place on last Thursday and Friday. From my residence to office is just 4-5 kilometers but i have to cross a highway and reach the other side. During office hours, 9.15-9.45, it takes 45 minutes. So, i start early at 9.00 and reach by 9.20.

On Thursday, I had to reach early. So, i started at 8.45 AM but from the beginning there were crawling cars and i got stuck in the jam for one and half hour and reached office sweating and missed the deadline. I wondered why there were so many buses and trucks on the highway as big trucks are not allowed on roads during office peak hours. I was wondering whether the rules have changed?

Next day, i had to arrange a follow up meeting, which was to be attanded by the second highest official in our industry at 11.Am. Fearing, the jam, I started at 8.15 and lo, reached office at 8.30. Sometime later, a friend requested to pre-pone the meeting to 10.30. I accepted and informed big man's office and other participants of the change. At, 10.00, i went to check the arrangements, when the office secretary asked me to postpone the meeting till further notice as the boss had sent a message across that he was stuck in traffic and also indisposed and would arrive much later. So, again, i informed all participants of the cancellation. I heaved a sigh and went around doing petty jobs.

As the luck would have it, i had left the mobile at home and could not be contacted by office secretary, who wanted frantically to contact me during the interval 10.05 to 10.20. This i came to know later.

After attending to sundry things, when i was about to reenter my room at 10.20, i saw Ghost. I saw through glass, the boss seated in his throne and his personal secretary waving at me. He informed me again "Please arrange the meeting. He has come only for the meeting".

I did whatever i could do in 5 minutes. But there was no other participant, not even me, when boss entered the conference room exactly at 10.30. Suppose, you are organising a meeting for Obama and when Obama comes there is no one.

Holy situation. I sweated to gather the flock. Then the bomb blasted, when we all sat down. In bengali we have a phrase 'Tulo dhonai'. To clean cotton mattress etc., the mattress is hung and beaten with a strong stick. For 15 minutes, this 'tulo dhonai' was done to me and frankly speaking, i felt that i would weep openly.

Back home in the eveining, i relived the situation and felt weepy again and then i saw the picture of the real BOSS. Shiva was looking like Virupakhsa at me -- smiling mischievously and dangerously, with uncommon eyes. I read the associated column, which desribed how the highways were choked because Shiva devotees were doing the marathon from Haridwar to their respective places. They will pour water over shivling on Monday, 20th July.:)

I felt a choking in the throat and murmured "God, why do it to me?". But then a clarity descended. The magic and all those mysterious happenings are not so at all. The workings seem mysterious to us, because we have the embedded notion of doership.

But for Shri Ramana, for example, nothing would be magic. It would be "Thy will be done." I have never known this so clearly.

For me, this picture is nearly Moksha.

Om Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 11:01 AM
So, in what way is it wrong to have the images of Hindu gods on toilet seats or beer cans? I think the difference is in the attitude.

I totally agree. And when you sense attitude, well, time to stand up and be heard. But still its individual. One person's point of standing up differs from another's. Often ignorance on the western person's behalf is a valid excuse. And if there is no attitude, then that person, after the mistake is pointed out, withdraws the insulting image. We certainly can't expect non-Hindus to always get all the imagery we have. That would be like asking me to know and understand swearing or racial slurs that are in Hindi or Tamil. I just wouldn't get it.

Aum Namasivaya

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 11:04 AM
Yes, Atanu, everything has a reason. I'm happy you had the opportunity to clear up some karmas and proceed with a healthy mind towards the One without a second. So many would have just kept asking "Why me?" demonstrating their lack of belief, really. Cheers.

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
18 July 2009, 11:38 AM
Namaste EM.



So, in what way is it wrong to have the images of Hindu gods on toilet seats or beer cans? I think the difference is in the attitude.




I totally agree. And when you sense attitude, well, time to stand up and be heard. But still its individual. One person's point of standing up differs from another's. Often ignorance on the western person's behalf is a valid excuse. And if there is no attitude, then that person, after the mistake is pointed out, withdraws the insulting image.


You have quoted me only partially. The 'attitude' I talked about was the 'devotional and religious attitude'. In the two cases I quoted, there was certainly no "ignorance on the western person's behalf" so it could become "a valid excuse". Both the companies knew about Ganesha and Lakshmi being Hindu gods and their using the images would amount to insulting those gods and hurting Hindu religious feelings. Where there is ignorance, it is preferable not to meddle with the other religions, specially from the business point of view.

Why did not the toilet seat company use/dare to use Christian and Islamic imagery as well (such as the picture of Jesus Christ or Mohammad) on the toilet seats they sold out, if their attitude was being secular and rational? Even if the company had done it, it would have been a deliberate and calculated offence in any case--using religious imagery on toilet seats. Why not use the image of the corporate and political bosses and film artists instead?



We certainly can't expect non-Hindus to always get all the imagery we have. That would be like asking me to know and understand swearing or racial slurs that are in Hindi or Tamil. I just wouldn't get it.


Not knowing Hindu imagery and not knowing vernacular racial slurs--are they on par with each other? The point is, IMO, if a non-Hindu does not know or care to investigate the Hindu religious imagery, the proper thing would be to desist from using it, whatever attitude the person might have in using it. The same thing applies to a Hindu, who cannot afford to talk ill of other religious imagery without first getting to know it properly, with the possible exception of retalliation on provacation, as with the case of Christian missionaries.

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 11:52 AM
Not knowing Hindu imagery and not knowing vernacular racial slurs--are they on par with each other? The point is, IMO, if a non-Hindu does not know or care to investigate the Hindu religious imagery, the proper thing would be to desist from using it, whatever attitude the person might have in using it. The same thing applies to a Hindu, who cannot afford to talk ill of other religious imagery without first getting to know it properly, with the possible exception of retalliation on provacation, as with the case of Christian missionaries.

But that illustrates my point. The fact is that in India when traveling you can see religious imagery everywhere. That simply is not the case in the west. You don't find Jesus Tires, or Muhammed Cafe. If it has religious imagery, its a Christian bookstore, or a house of worship. So this imagery everywhere leads the Christian or westerner into thinking the imagery has to do with literature, or mythology, not religion. Given his or her experience in the west, the subconscious mind doesn't attach religion to it at all. It remains truly naive. Believe it or not, some people here in the west are so overtly western that anything outside their little boxes makes no sense at all. Many Americans don't even know where Canada is. I find no evil in stupidity. Just anava.

The other day I was wandering a mall and chanced into a store where the owner had a bunch of Narmada Lingams for sale. They are becoming or are popular within the New Age movement. So as my wife and I were discussing how we might procure a base for one (ordering it made in India, I presume) the owner overheard our discussion, and told us we could just lay it on a towel. He had absolutely no idea of the lingam's significance to me.

Aum Namasivaya

Sherab
18 July 2009, 01:17 PM
I am truly sorry to hear that - I often felt that way about tibetan buddhism by newage-ers. Please know not all westerners are that way. :)

namaste

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 03:03 PM
Sherab:
I have nothing against new agers. I think it is immature of a soul to criticise any other. To look at them and understand is a better approach. From my observations, the New Age borrows most of its concepts from the East, mostly Hinduism. Also from native American. We do not get acknowledged. Yoga, astral travel, crystals, etc. are all ancient Hindu beliefs. But they are just attempting a shortcut, without the necessary background in ethics, humility, and lifestyle to back it up. Most come from a Christian background. In part I blame some of our own Masters for letting secrets such as kundalini out at all, when it should have been reserved for the few rare souls who are ready. But 'hate' is not a word for Hindus.

Aum Namasivaya

Sherab
18 July 2009, 04:28 PM
Sherab:
I have nothing against new agers. I think it is immature of a soul to criticise any other. To look at them and understand is a better approach. From my observations, the New Age borrows most of its concepts from the East, mostly Hinduism. Also from native American. We do not get acknowledged. Yoga, astral travel, crystals, etc. are all ancient Hindu beliefs. But they are just attempting a shortcut, without the necessary background in ethics, humility, and lifestyle to back it up. Most come from a Christian background. In part I blame some of our own Masters for letting secrets such as kundalini out at all, when it should have been reserved for the few rare souls who are ready. But 'hate' is not a word for Hindus.

Aum Namasivaya
Hi,

I didnt include the word hate in there at all, and i agree with you 100%. Maybe i was a bit to harsh sounding.:)

Eastern Mind
18 July 2009, 04:45 PM
You're right. Hate was my word. I just think its a slippery slope. So tell me, why do you consider yourself a Hindu? White, at 18 years, having already experienced 4 years of Buddhism. Must be an interesting story.
Aum Shanthi

Sherab
18 July 2009, 05:18 PM
You're right. Hate was my word. I just think its a slippery slope. So tell me, why do you consider yourself a Hindu? White, at 18 years, having already experienced 4 years of Buddhism. Must be an interesting story.
Aum Shanthi

I consider myself hindu all the time, because i always have been. In fact, i have taken sojourns from buddhism, and in that time, also kept a statue of jesus on my altar, and said they were all the same to me.

I found that Baha'i and Hinduism hold that both in common - Baha'i being to strict with standard daily prayers, and hinduism just right for me.

Anyways, it's a long story, in short, yes, i am hindu.
Specifically because the ideas in the Buddhas tantras are a lot like hinduism - dharmakaya is their word for brahman - of course, this is a huge over generalization, but it gets the point across - both of these things, beings have as their ultimate nature - the path is just to rid obscurations of mind - which they are, actually an illusion too, just like maya.

Namaste

Znanna
18 July 2009, 08:44 PM
For me, this picture is nearly Moksha.

Om Namah Shivaya

Hehe.

Life is good when Godz are laughing :)




Namaste,
ZN

atanu
18 July 2009, 09:56 PM
Hehe.

Life is good when Godz are laughing :)

Namaste,
ZN

Pray may it be apparent in less adverse ways. Doesnot matter however. Om Namah Shivaya

saidevo
18 July 2009, 10:19 PM
Namaste EM.

The first thing a westerner usually knows about Hinduism is that it is not just a religion but a way of life. So there is no surprise that religious imagery pervades the daily life and scenes in India. That it is localized to bookstores and houses of worship in the Christian world I can understand. I can also understand and appreciate ignorance on the part of a member of the public.

I think, however, the corporate world dealing with Hindu religious imagery cannot escape with the excuse of ignorance. There could of course be ignorance there too, but when it comes to sale, the seller should have investigated well and carefully into the product and ensure that neither the act of selling nor the product sold does not hurt the Hindus in anyway; it's a matter of basic courtesy. After all, Hinduism is not just a long-lost, non-extant pagan religion in today's world.

In the case of the sale of Narmada lingams you mentioned, it is a puja article meant to be purchased by Hindus, so any ignorance on the part of the seller is excusable because the attitude was right. I am certain that if any customer pointed out the mistake, the seller would correct it. In the case of the toilet seat example, however, it is offensive and everyone should deplore it irrespective of the religion, because there religion is sought to be scandalized. Ignorance simply does not exist there nor can be resorted to.



I find no evil in stupidity. Just anava.


I agree that there is no evil in stupidity. But what did you intend with the word 'anava', 'pride and arrogance' or 'inadvertence'? Because 'anava' (actually 'anavAdhana') in Sanskrit means 'inadvertence' whereas the term 'ANava' implies 'pride and arrogance'.



Believe it or not, some people here in the west are so overtly western that anything outside their little boxes makes no sense at all. Many Americans don't even know where Canada is.


That is perhaps exclusivity at its height. Believe it or not, (I guess) that even a rustic, ignorant, illiterate Hindu knows about the Christian religion and Jesus, thanks to the spread of missionary efforts. This is perhaps a case of inclusivity, which is a main feature of Hinduism.

Znanna
19 July 2009, 06:12 AM
Pray may it be apparent in less adverse ways.


Indeed I do and shall continue to do so.

OM.

Eastern Mind
19 July 2009, 06:49 AM
Namaste Saidevo

I looked up the toilet seat situation from 8 years back. The "company" was two women working from their home. They quickly withdrew the products once it was pointed out to them. I agree that a larger company such as Coca-Cola would have the research money to find these things out.

The Narmada Lingam store was not a place where puja items are sold. It was a crystal, and craft shop. Western people buy them for decoration, of 'neat rocks'. The shop had about 60 lingams in various sizes. I think that the fault here would go back to the harvesters who don't really care who they are selling to. I hope the dam is stopped. Still, money is money.

The whole thing is tricky, and clearly varies from case to case, with intent, sensitivity, knowledge, varying a lot from person to person. So in practical terms, I guess it comes down to the offender's reaction or the laws of a country when someone complains.

Anava: I was using the definition from 'Dancing with Siva'. I'll just quote some of it. "Impurity of smallness, finitizing principle' the individualising veil of duality that enshrouds the soul" .... allows spiritual ignorance, darkness, egoity, and pride to manifest."

As I was trying to explain, the mass consciousness of the west is very different from the east. Here we have at least 50&#37; of the people claiming 'no religion' as their faith if you will. And more yet would be 'non-practising'. So if I went around with a picture of Lakshmi, I'm guessing about 1% of the westerners would be able to identify it. Maybe 10% would associate it with religion ... not necessarily Hinduism. Ganesha is becoming the most recognisable, because of his head. But people hear that he represents good luck, so they purchase a small one, and take it to bingos or the casino with them. So too with small statues of Buddha. At my work place of some 25 years, one guy kept thinking for 10 years that I was a Buddhist, even though I corrected him incessantly. So people here really don't care much about religion.

Aum Namasivaya

satay
19 July 2009, 09:59 AM
namaste,

I haven't read all the posts on this thread but wanted to comment on the picture. I have no problem with this picture on the shirt, in fact, I might have seen someone wearing it in real life or maybe I have been staring at it here for way too long. :)

atanu
19 July 2009, 12:07 PM
namaste,

I haven't read all the posts on this thread but wanted to comment on the picture. I have no problem with this picture on the shirt, in fact, I might have seen someone wearing it in real life or maybe I have been staring at it here for way too long. :)

virUpAkSa - uncommon eyes
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3992/dangerousshiva1.th.png (http://img33.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dangerousshiva1.png)

devotee
19 July 2009, 11:48 PM
Rameshwar Darshanam

Last year my sister came to Chennai with her husband for going to Rameshwaram. They insisted that we too accompanied them. My wife, who is ever ready for such journeys, happily agreed without feeling the need to confirm it from me … so, there was nothing for me to decide except arranging for train tickets, car (for journey fro Madurai to Rameshwaram), hotel bookings etc. at a short notice of 2 days !

With the grace of God, I got all confirmations & we four of us caught the night train to Madurai. We had booked a room in a Rest House for getting fresh & taking breakfast before starting for Rameshwaram from Madurai. We stayed there for about an hour & a half & set out from there at around 7:00 Hrs in the morning. We cruised leisurely taking halts at a few more relatively less known places on the way like Navagraha & by the time we reached Rameshwaram & were able to push our luggage in our rooms in a hotel near the temple, it was afternoon, around 2:00 pm.

I proposed that we took bath & then proceeded to temple & had Darshan. My sister, who is very strict orthodox in Puja matters, retorted : “Puja after taking food ? No, no. We must wait till next morning & then we shall go in an empty stomach after taking bath in the sea”. I said, “See, I have no patience to wait for the next morning when I have reached here with a sole desire of having His darshan. I shall certainly go in the morning again but I must have darshan today itself. It is like I came to see my father & am being stopped to see Him just because I had refreshment on the way in a long & tiring journey ? Does Father minds taking my breakfast ? Would he feel happy if I came here suffering from hunger … I just can’t believe it. ……. And I declared with a tone of finality : I am going to take bath & thereafter going to the temple & if anyone wants to accompany me, he/she can come along”.

My logic worked & my sister didn’t protest. We all got ready & proceeded to the temple by around 2:45 pm. Once inside the temple, as it is always for me, I felt like I was at home feeling the soul lifting vibrations within and without. We had with us special puja tickets & by 3:30 pm, we were before the Shiva Linga offering our prayers & the priest doing “abhishekam” of the Shiva Linga with the holy water. Surprisingly, there was not much rush at that time & we had ample time to drench ourselves in the graceful cooling showers of Shiva’s Darshan.

We came out of the temple by around 4:30 pm. Spiritually satisfied & soaked in devotion we were giving “dakhshina” to our guide priest who remarked taking leave of us : “Sir, you are lucky to have Shiva Puja today at that time which was actually Pradosh Kalam & which comes only once in fifteen days.” ! I looked at my sister & asked with a smile, “Do you still think we should have waited till tomorrow?”. My sister smiled too & said, “How could have I stopped you when Shiva Himself was calling you & wanted you to be present at that auspicious time ?” !

Eastern Mind
20 July 2009, 05:49 AM
Devotee: Beautiful. Felt like I was there with you. When God beckons, it's like He has a leash on you, not unlike you walking an obedient pet dog. "Come, dear! I have something I want you to have/feel."

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
20 July 2009, 09:40 PM
Namaste EM,



When God beckons, it's like He has a leash on you, not unlike you walking an obedient pet dog. "Come, dear! I have something I want you to have/feel

Well said ! :)

May that leash, the grace of God, may never allow me to get lost in this maze of this world !

OM

satay
21 July 2009, 12:14 AM
Namaste,

Sarabhanga explained about the 'top dog' here:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=175&postcount=11

Nuno Matos
21 July 2009, 06:38 PM
Namaste Satay & Sarahbanga


" Things that make you wonder. "

" With time and effort, the young dog now knows what to do, and with age and experience its confidence and abilities grow, until one day that once ignorant innocent puppy is raised to be the leader of all the hounds "


Dear friends, asking you not to taken me as unpolite I shall say that it its proven that there are no hierarchys between neurons:D . We are not machines! There is no way to adapt cybernetic models to human nature, that is God. Non violence ( ahimsa ) it is incompatible with it as the rest of the yamas & nyamas wich in a cybernetic model are nothing more than axioms without truth.
And Sarabhanga as you pointed out in some of your post quit correctly it is cristian and western the trend to expell evry thing and self that is out of their private poll of self created truths.

Pranams!

satay
01 August 2011, 11:12 PM
namaste,


...countinued from op...


So this has become a sort of a tradition now to visit 'Varadharaja' (vishnu) on our visit to MN. I have been wondering when will he accept 'archana' from us. You see I find Vishnu to be 'tricky' from personal experience.

This archana seems to be a south indian thing and I had no idea what the pandit was talking about when he yelled archana archana archana anyone, last year during our visit. I saw some people holding brown bags with them which they handed to the pundit who then proceeded to do mantra ucharan for them and offered the archana to the main deity.

On our visit last week, I saw one guy holding the brown bag. This time I decided to ask what the brown bag was and where did he get it from.

Ended up buying the 'archana' from one of the pundits at the counter and so it happened. Vishnu allowed me to do archana. But not without a 'trick'. The trick that vishnu played on me that day will remain a secret. Vishnu vishnu vishnu...:)