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Spiritualseeker
31 July 2009, 10:49 AM
Namaste,

Alright. I feel like I have a family here. I Have a strong connection mainly with devotee, atanu, yajvan (though I dont see him on here much), and easternmind. So I feel comfortable addressing the subject of sex. Now I am a married man and love my wife very much. SHe is very very attractive, but I still find myself looking at other women. Now this would never allow me to cheat on my wife. I have been in a situation at my old job where I had the opportunity of sleeping with two women (not because I am hot stuff but because well they are not the sweet chaste girls). Anyways those situations came upw here i could get away with it but I would never ever ever do it. I have too much love for my wife. I went as far as trying to avoid these girls (Which was difficult where i worked). So my main point is just because I have a wandeirng eye doesnt mean I am looking for sex.

But the problem is ill check out a girl. I think some of you know what I mean. I will find them attractive. Which is fine but my difficulty is the mind clinging to these images. So I will look at a girl pass me by and notice that she looks good in terms of body and face. Because I find there is a difference between someone seeing a girls face and finding her attractive , but I actually look at her as a whole. This is what bothers me.

I want to give this up. So that my mind does not commit fornication. Even though physically i will never commit fornication, but the mind easily does. How Do I stop this? I am starting my hindu journey and I want to purify myself. I know I will never progress without ridding myself of these desires. How do I do it?

If anybody thinks bad of me know that it is only my "Ego" that is attached. I am beyond that, but I cannot find this big I just yet.

with love
-juan

Sherab
31 July 2009, 11:09 AM
Hi,

I think meditating on corpses (like in Buddhism) may help. That girl that is so attractive, that will just use you and leave you, will once be old and ugly. she wont help you out like your wife will. When you look at a girl, imagine how she will look 50 years from then, if she is even alive.

However, your wife and you are "two bodies, one spirit" - Shiva and paravati in essence.

namaste.

Eastern Mind
31 July 2009, 12:30 PM
Namaste: This is an open and honest post. I appreciate that. SS, do you have a sister? Or maybe even your mother. If so, think of her. get that sort of love, the love for sister, or mother, into your head. Then do the horizontal transfer bit over to all other women besides your wife, of course. They are all your sisters or mothers. Treat them that way. Then your family grows even larger, because all women are your sisters. That is the correct way to think. That is why we say Namaste or Vannakkam. You have to look at the soul. Even your wife is the soul, not the body.

Aum Namasivaya

Spiritualseeker
31 July 2009, 12:34 PM
Namaste,

That was beautiful Eastern mind. That is something I can work with. Its hard for me to do the buddhist practice of meditating upon corpse because at the moment when desire arises your not really being attracted to the corpse or what its going to look like in 50 years. But perhaps If i try to keep in mind that all (Besides my wife as you suggested) are my mothers and sisters. That is beautiful indeed :)

-juan

TatTvamAsi
31 July 2009, 12:34 PM
Find methods of fulfillment (i.e. finding happiness) that do not have to do with sex or women.

This is where Yoga & meditation help. Conquering this sexual attraction is one of the most difficult steps for any human being. Even Vishwamitra, the Brahmarishi, failed after the bodacious babe (apsara) Menaka was 'dancing' (lap dance? ;)) in front of him. He strayed off the path and had a child with her; SHAKUNTALA, the mother of the child who is the namesake of India: BHARAT!

It may be nice to surround yourself with ugly women. Perhaps that's why PUSSlims always make the women wear the burka so the men will not be aroused by them. If the women are beautiful, you can't see them; if they are ugly, you still can't see them! That sounds like a solution alright! hahaha..

atanu
31 July 2009, 02:17 PM
Namaste,

My suggestion, in addition to all those already offered, is: be a vegetarian.

Yet, the nature of food will take its own course, creating warmth and desire. Three steps are of help. 1. To enjoy natural sex with wife, while mentally doing mantra japa. 2. To remember that God is the goal, even when in ecstacy. 3. To remember that the attractions are objects of senses, and doings are of gunas alone, unconnected with surfaceless spirit.

Only absolute advaita realisation (by burning the ignorance of 'another', which is the cause of desire, with the light of third eye) can lead to complete freedom. Not otherwise.

So set and keep remembering your ultimate goal and leave it to God.

Om Namah Shivaya

Spiritualseeker
31 July 2009, 02:24 PM
Namaste Atanu,

Thank you for your remarkable post. Let me see if I understand the first part. During sex its okay for me to mentally recite a Mantra? Just want to make sure i understand you right.

Znanna
31 July 2009, 08:31 PM
Namaste,

Perhaps it is simple minded to think as I do, but, it seems to me that obsession with the physical friction, enticement, is somewhat akin to eating spicy food.

If the burn of the curry and peppers purifies through the senses, then the abrupt imposition does not perhaps disrupt.


ZN

atanu
31 July 2009, 09:14 PM
Namaste,

Perhaps it is simple minded to think as I do, but, it seems to me that obsession with the physical friction, enticement, is somewhat akin to eating spicy food.

If the burn of the curry and peppers purifies through the senses, then the abrupt imposition does not perhaps disrupt.
ZN

Namaste ZN,

The enticement is indeed like obsession with any other sensual touch and friction. Regarding the second sentence of yours however, i ask: does not indiscriminate use of peppers cause ulcers?

Like once you said: "I like eating the chocolate rather than being the chocolate". This saying is very similar to dvaitin argument "I would enjoy the rasa rather than be the rasa".

According to Guru Ramana, this is sacrilege, to reduce the source of all -- you, me and the senses that separate you and me -- to an object. He asks "Then who is the subject?"

Regards


For SS,

One can remember God at any and all times. Remember the subject at all times, whatever the mind-body may be busy with.

devotee
31 July 2009, 09:55 PM
Alright. I feel like I have a family here. I Have a strong connection mainly with devotee, atanu, yajvan (though I dont see him on here much), and easternmind. So I feel comfortable addressing the subject of sex. Now I am a married man and love my wife very much. SHe is very very attractive, but I still find myself looking at other women. Now this would never allow me to cheat on my wife. I have been in a situation at my old job where I had the opportunity of sleeping with two women (not because I am hot stuff but because well they are not the sweet chaste girls). Anyways those situations came upw here i could get away with it but I would never ever ever do it. I have too much love for my wife. I went as far as trying to avoid these girls (Which was difficult where i worked). So my main point is just because I have a wandeirng eye doesnt mean I am looking for sex.

But the problem is ill check out a girl. I think some of you know what I mean. I will find them attractive. Which is fine but my difficulty is the mind clinging to these images. So I will look at a girl pass me by and notice that she looks good in terms of body and face. Because I find there is a difference between someone seeing a girls face and finding her attractive , but I actually look at her as a whole. This is what bothers me.

I want to give this up. So that my mind does not commit fornication. Even though physically i will never commit fornication, but the mind easily does. How Do I stop this? I am starting my hindu journey and I want to purify myself. I know I will never progress without ridding myself of these desires. How do I do it?

If anybody thinks bad of me know that it is only my "Ego" that is attached. I am beyond that, but I cannot find this big I just yet.


Namaste SS,

This "problem" ( ?) is not with you but with almost all males. I was surprised when once Yajvan ji said that he too had problem in dealing with this issue.

There are very good suggestions already given. EM's suggestion is certainly good & practical .... I have seen that your views towards women undergo drastic change after you get a daughter. The problem is that we don't see the women as fellow human being who have similar problems, emotions etc. as we have & they are not only an object of sex .... we are too focussed on the body which is just a covering ... this focus must shift to the real person inside.

Similarly, the suggestion of TTA is also valuable. The meditation brings you peace ... nearer to God & the experience of that bliss is certainly a better bargain than any worldly enjoyment. You are seeking pleasures in worldly things because you don't know anything better which gives you more & lasting joy. The sexual pleasure is only for a few minutes but it disturbs your peace for quite a long time. The peace / the bliss which is experienced in meditation takes you away from this worldly pleasure.

Again, as Atanu has given very valuable suggestion ... food plays very important role in increasing / decreasing your carnal desires. If you keep on eating Rajsik/Tamsik foods ... it would be extremely difficult to control your desires.

---------------------------------------

I shall share my experience. I had ( perhaps still has, "hidden") in me very strong desire towards opposite sex. These are the things which helped me :

a) I learnt that all habits are acquired habits. And every habit can be changed.
b) Seeing women as person & not as sexual objects. All attractions are within my mind. I can always take my mind to better things which assure me freedom & peace & not bondage for a short-lived carnal pleasure. Chanting Mantra, focussing "within" & feeling the peace/bliss of God immediately helps.
c) It is not a problem. It is the nature you are born with like other males. Don't fight ... don't try to suppress but detach yourself ... because you are not what can get trapped into all this. Be a witness & go inside.
d) The more you do it, the more you think about it ... the more you are putting strength into any habit. Non-attachment & avoiding all situations where you can become weak ... is important. Don't challenge yourself ... and don't try to test whether you have overcome all bondage to the particular habit .... the most of the times, unless you have Realisation, environment is stronger than human will power. Keep away from environment which can make you weaker.
e) Use intellectual discrimination .... what are material pleasures ? The pleasure lies in the hunger & not actually in the sensual activity. You make yourself hungry & then keep running after means to satisfy that hunger. The balm certainly is soothing .... but why to get a headache in the first place ? When I was a kid ... I didn't know sex .... and I was happier ... because I didn't have this hunger. Why create this hunger & get bound to it ? Isn't like first acquiring a disease & look for a remedy ?

Moreover, it is an endless cycle which binds me. I get hungry ... I get mad to satisfy that hunger .... I get satisfaction after indulging in the sensual activity .... the hunger again comes back ... again I go mad .... ! Hey, when am I going to be free from all that ? Do I really need anything external to be happy ? No ! Why should my happiness depend upon something external to me ? I am complete in myself. I have to simply go within & find that peace & bliss which is always with me but I have forgotten by my habit of looking too much outside. I must seek inside the everlasting peace & happiness .... which is my True Nature.


OM

Anicca
31 July 2009, 10:56 PM
Namaste


The strongest (buddhist) teaching i have heard for leaving the chaos of sexual desire is this



Sexual activity is just the exchange of fluids (spit for spit, sperm for vagina fluid etc)


Or the fact your having pleasure in something that one day will be a rotting corpse full of maggots and in the present life is just a mass of sweat, smell, blood, puss, undigested food etc


metta

Anicca
31 July 2009, 10:58 PM
Why feel attracted to that which is a foul smelling mass?

TatTvamAsi
31 July 2009, 11:41 PM
Why feel attracted to that which is a foul smelling mass?

hahahhahaha... ever heard of a FISH taco?? hahhahhhahh... this is hilarious.. but true I guess.... LOL.

On a serious note, this Buddhist teaching is rather interesting and shows the perspective of the philosophy towards things that are impermanent.

There is a Hindu story, I forget the name at the moment, of a rishi who is supposed to have broken through the barrier and was enlightened during a sexual experience! The explanation I have heard is that the ahamkArA (ego) ceases to exist for a split second during ejaculation and we experience that ultimate bliss, albeit for a VERY short time. The other fact is also that the "life force" is supposed to be 'stored' in the semen (for men) and every time one "releases" some of that "life force" is lost. This perhaps explains why abstinence from sex is paramount in sAdhanA.

My take would be, instead of becoming completely averse to sex, have sex with someone you REALLY love (i.e. your spouse) and do not have it for you but for the "other" person. Perhaps this 'selflessness' during such a vulnerable moment will help progress the kundalini although I could be completely wrong regarding that.

LUST = BAD. LOVE = GOOD. That is why marriage is allowed in Hinduism and not artificially canned.

Ganeshprasad
01 August 2009, 12:08 PM
Pranam

Arjun asked Lord Krishna

Arjuna said: O Krishna, what impels one to commit sin as if unwillingly and forced against one's will? (3.36)



The Blessed Lord said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material modes of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring, sinful enemy of this world. (3.37)

it makes a very good read Bhagvat Gita Chapter 3, 3.37-43

Jai Shree Krishna

Sudarshan
01 August 2009, 12:58 PM
Namaste,

Alright. I feel like I have a family here. I Have a strong connection mainly with devotee, atanu, yajvan (though I dont see him on here much), and easternmind. So I feel comfortable addressing the subject of sex. Now I am a married man and love my wife very much. SHe is very very attractive, but I still find myself looking at other women. Now this would never allow me to cheat on my wife. I have been in a situation at my old job where I had the opportunity of sleeping with two women (not because I am hot stuff but because well they are not the sweet chaste girls). Anyways those situations came upw here i could get away with it but I would never ever ever do it. I have too much love for my wife. I went as far as trying to avoid these girls (Which was difficult where i worked). So my main point is just because I have a wandeirng eye doesnt mean I am looking for sex.

But the problem is ill check out a girl. I think some of you know what I mean. I will find them attractive. Which is fine but my difficulty is the mind clinging to these images. So I will look at a girl pass me by and notice that she looks good in terms of body and face. Because I find there is a difference between someone seeing a girls face and finding her attractive , but I actually look at her as a whole. This is what bothers me.

I want to give this up. So that my mind does not commit fornication. Even though physically i will never commit fornication, but the mind easily does. How Do I stop this? I am starting my hindu journey and I want to purify myself. I know I will never progress without ridding myself of these desires. How do I do it?

If anybody thinks bad of me know that it is only my "Ego" that is attached. I am beyond that, but I cannot find this big I just yet.

with love
-juan

I would say that since you are in the process of introspection you have already half won this battle! Dont look at the past - leave everything to the Lord. Eastern mind and atanu have given great suggestions.

I am a celibate and I am an Anjaneya upAsaka. The personality called Anjaneya was so much of a role model to me that I have rarely had any sexual feelings. As a teenager I was not completely free from sexual thoughts, but for the last ten years or so I have never been influenced by a woman. I see all women as the Mother Goddess. I attribute the power of will solely to the blessings of Hanuman.

I personally think the more time we spend in contemplating on God, we have much less time for idling. And an idle mind is devil's workshop. Meditation will give you an enormous control of mind that your body will listen only to your mind and not the other way around.

Spiritualseeker
01 August 2009, 05:39 PM
Namaste,

those were great responses Ganeshaprasad and Sudarshan.

I cannot wait to start my lessons of the Self Realization Fellowship course. Hopefully I will learn to calm the mind and be able to disidentify with it so that I can just stay in pure awareness and know that lust and other feelings. I think I am doing a little better, but Still some more work to do.

Znanna
01 August 2009, 06:46 PM
Namaste,

I believe more ulcers would be caused by stress than by hot peppers; arguably, the peppers and curry might kill the ecoli which is the proximate cause of many ulcers!

But yes, the point is that it is the friction, the irritation, which distracts, not the thing itself. The in-the-moment part of sex, where the physical is overwhelmed by emotion, this is not the distraction ... rather it is the context which is given, IMO.

To use a Christian metaphor, the concept of "original sin" is the act of recognition that One is different from another.

ZN

atanu
01 August 2009, 09:48 PM
Namaste,

I believe more ulcers would be caused by stress than by hot peppers; arguably, the peppers and curry might kill the ecoli which is the proximate cause of many ulcers!

Namaste ZN,

I agree and add that they also extoll 'A golden mean'.


But yes, the point is that it is the friction, the irritation, which distracts, not the thing itself. The in-the-moment part of sex, where the physical is overwhelmed by emotion, this is not the distraction ... rather it is the context which is given, IMO.

The 'in-the-moment part of sex' is so fleeting. Can't depend on it, really, except as a hint. Moreover, although the end of sexual tension/friction is most intense, it is not dissimilar in nature to the calmness/bliss which is revealed at the end of fruition of any desire. The calmness again gets muddied by rise of another desire. We are blissful in sleep, though we miss the knowledge again and again. Also, opposite to fleeting end of sex bliss, they say that the friction of a guru mantra lights up permanently.


To use a Christian metaphor, the concept of "original sin" is the act of recognition that One is different from another.

ZN

I agree. But then i have wondered 'whose original sin?

-----------------------

I write all this since I am afflicted by distraction of sensuality often. I envy brother Sudarshan.

Om Namah Shivaya

Sherab
01 August 2009, 10:19 PM
The first Line of the Isha Upanishad hit me with this.

Everything at the heart of all things is God, including yourself.IF everything is god, nothing is ours. Dont covet anything.

It is so hard to explain, but i no longer have lust at all.

Here is a translation:

"In the heart of all things, of whatever there is in the universe, dwells the Lord. He alone is the reality. Wherefore, renouncing vain appearances, rejoice in him. Covet no man’s wealth."

rkpande
02 August 2009, 05:54 AM
I have read in some scripture that one incarnates with three atrributes- AAyu(your logivity),Bhoga(Experiences) and Sanskars(impressions of last birth)[i have given approximate english equivalants, as SS is presently not very conversant with sanskrit or hindi] , Maharshi Patanjali says- AAyu, jati and Bhoga] and some say you transmigrate with shukshma sarrira containg your anthahakarna.
All the above attributes could be changed by Prushasatha karma(meaning your endevour in current life form)
The hatha yogi enhances his earth years of his life by decreasing his breaths per second.For life is given a predermined number of breaths in this life form as per your AAyu. Normally you breathe 15 times a day, if you reduce it you may live longer in earth years. It is achieved by Prayanama.
Bhoga. The experiences of life may be altered very little, if you are born a begger, it will take a huge effort to become slum dog millionaire. Yes you can still change.
Sanskars are the accumalated impressions of previous life forms.More you think and harder you think, more deeper are the impressions. As far sex, I think all of you with very few exception will remember when they were 16, after sports the only thing they think is sex. The vertual reward the sex gives, along with ego satisfation makes a man think about it more and more , making the sanskars make its mark depper and deeper.Thats why most of us incarnate predisposed with sex in the eye.
It takes time and resolute efforts to minimise it but it is not immpossible.
You can do it. Follow fellow commentators advices, God willing you will come winner.

Spiritualseeker
02 August 2009, 06:42 AM
Namaste,

Thank you very much. I have been following the advices to the best of my ability and I have been keeping my gaze down. I still try to do japa mantra when I am enjoying my wife though sometimes its difficult to stay focus on that. But I am really detaching from my body even when it comes to emotions etc.. I realize them to not be who I am. This has made me less sad aswell. I am sure in time and especially when I start the Self Realization fellowship classes that I will be more in control of the egoic mind.

with love
-juan

Ganeshprasad
02 August 2009, 10:04 AM
Pranam Atanu ji


The calmness again gets muddied by rise of another desire.
Om Namah Shivaya

Pull of Maya is very strong, only surrendering to his lotus feet one may overcome.

reminded me of a song by Galib

Haazaron kwaashen aisi ke har khwaish pe dam nikle,
Bahut nikle mere armaan, lekin phir bhi Kam nikle.

Thousands of desires, tantalizing one and all,
Many a wish have I realised; yet I yearn for more.

Jai Shree Krishna

sunyata07
02 August 2009, 06:06 PM
Namaste SS,

I admire your forthrightness in posting this. It's something I think many people will struggle with, temptation - although as Lord Buddha once pointed out "of all longings and desires there is none stronger than sex". Bodily lust as a desire has no equal. However, that you can admit to yourself and even to the rest of us on the forum that you sometimes feel your eyes stray is a good sign. The Self Realisation Fellowship course sounds like a great way to increase this self-recognition. The advice Easternmind, atanu and devotee have given are also very helpful. Whatever way you go about this, if you are sincere in your wish to realise the Self, God will be with you.

brahman
30 August 2009, 05:18 AM
Namaste,

Alright. I feel like I have a family here. I Have a strong connection mainly with devotee, atanu, yajvan (though I dont see him on here much), and easternmind. So I feel comfortable addressing the subject of sex. Now I am a married man and love my wife very much. SHe is very very attractive, but I still find myself looking at other women. Now this would never allow me to cheat on my wife. I have been in a situation at my old job where I had the opportunity of sleeping with two women (not because I am hot stuff but because well they are not the sweet chaste girls). Anyways those situations came upw here i could get away with it but I would never ever ever do it. I have too much love for my wife. I went as far as trying to avoid these girls (Which was difficult where i worked). So my main point is just because I have a wandeirng eye doesnt mean I am looking for sex.

But the problem is ill check out a girl. I think some of you know what I mean. I will find them attractive. Which is fine but my difficulty is the mind clinging to these images. So I will look at a girl pass me by and notice that she looks good in terms of body and face. Because I find there is a difference between someone seeing a girls face and finding her attractive , but I actually look at her as a whole. This is what bothers me.

I want to give this up. So that my mind does not commit fornication. Even though physically i will never commit fornication, but the mind easily does. How Do I stop this? I am starting my hindu journey and I want to purify myself. I know I will never progress without ridding myself of these desires. How do I do it?

If anybody thinks bad of me know that it is only my "Ego" that is attached. I am beyond that, but I cannot find this big I just yet.

with love
-juan

Great discussion. Enjoyed it.

But why does your eye wander when you a have great option to look in between their(whole or Devi) eyebrows and enjoy the mass amount of energy.

All the rest is maya...think female body with no pRAna...


Brahman

zensati
17 September 2009, 06:44 PM
how does one deal with this lust? well the purpose of sex is propagation of children. we are geneticly programmed to replicate our dna through the sex act. this programming is caused by millions of years of evolution and will not vanish just because we may wish it so.

zensati
17 September 2009, 06:56 PM
I think its important to realise that sex that is not for the propagation of children is merely timewasting. If one is more concious of the disadvantage of timewasting, then he is less likely to pursue frivolous activities like sex

Tirisilex
18 September 2009, 02:10 PM
For me it's learning to differentiate between attractiveness and lustfulness.
You will always see attractive females and you will find them attractive because THEY ARE. However so isn't a flower or a sunset. Just because you find something attractive doesn't always means you wish to take it and ravage it or lust after it.. Learn to seperate attractiveness from sexual desire and then I think you'll start to find some peace about this.

Thats my 2 cents worth

devotee
18 September 2009, 09:49 PM
You will always see attractive females and you will find them attractive because THEY ARE.

Actually it is not so, Trisilex ! We don't find them attractive because they are, we find them attractive because our mind is programmed to see them like that. There is no beauty or ugliness in absolute sense. They are simply concepts which originate within our minds. The male ape finds only he female ape beautiful, he doesn't find the females of other species so beautiful. You don't find a pig or a hen beautiful but they are certainly so in their own world.

OM

Tirisilex
19 September 2009, 02:06 PM
So a Peacock isn't beautiful? what about a butterfly.. ooops oh wait that means I must lust after them...

devotee
19 September 2009, 10:40 PM
Namaste Tirisilex,


So a Peacock isn't beautiful? what about a butterfly.. ooops oh wait that means I must lust after them...

I have no desire to win an argument. If you strongly believe what you say is correct & I am wrong, I have no issue.

My last post on this :

Lust may not be necessarily directly related to beauty. It is the play of chemicals within our bodies & it is powerful enough to make us see someone more beautiful than he or she really is (i.e. our own perception when we see them when we are not under the influence of those chemicals) .

What I am trying to point to can be better understood by trying to seek answers to these questions :

a) What is beauty ? How does one thing become beautiful or ugly ? Why a certain shape or colour looks beautiful ?
b) If concept of beauty is not relative, the degree of beauty seen in anything by all should have been same. Then we would not have said, "The beauty lies in the eyes of beholder".
c) It is mind which perceives anything as beautiful or ugly. If mind is absent, will there be any concept of beauty or ugliness ?

Just a try to make clear what I wanted to say.

If you disagree, that is perfectly OK.

OM

Adhvagat
02 December 2010, 12:28 PM
Does anyone have something new to add to this discussion?

Om Tat Sat

NayaSurya
02 December 2010, 03:15 PM
I read this thread fully and was so so proud of these friends of mine!

Controlling the animal is something women are brought up to do in many homes across the world, but I think, in many cultures, young men are sent mixed signals about this from family, friends and peers. Young men get a slap on the back in my children's school for "Scoring". Yet a young lady gets whispers and ostracized. So the young men around here have little practice getting this beast under control. They have peep shows within a 20 minute drive from my home and all sorts of foul things occur in these establishments. One just shut down because they were manufacturing Methamphetamines in the back rooms.

We drive by them every time we head north to temple and I always use this time as a lesson for my young boys. I tell them that these places exploit men and women. The women rob men of hard earned wages because they are desperate for drugs or alcohol and the men treat the women as a commodity. This is a place of base interactions, where both parties become used to the utmost.

Young men have it tough here, and I am mindful to let them know of this animal vessel and the things which it will be inclined towards. That we are more than these decaying vessels we inhabit.

I can only hope my sons grow up to be as wonderful as you gentlemen, it would make me so happy.

If only more of you lived in our community. This is a place where men slice deer chin to tail and dripping blood flows over the parking lots of the gas stations for all to see. A real man kills dear, and if you don't you are a %$&(#.

As far as the OP question. Because I see every single one of you as the very broken off piece of Beloved, which you are....I could never imagine one of you in such a way. To even think of another would be to cheat Beloved, and therefore myself.

But, I do truly love you, each one. I am utterly compelled to feel this way to every being. It's not a romantic love, but the very same love I feel for Beloved when I pray every day. Seeing Him in every single face has changed so much.

Eastern Mind
02 December 2010, 04:44 PM
Vannakkam:

Being surrounded by the opposite forces make it so very difficult. Fortunately, the inherent nature of the will allows us to just drive past. Who among us hasn't experienced the occasional wrong turn on this wretched highway of the internet? (I don't know the stats, but porn users rank very high in % of internet use.) I myself just built a wrong turn the other day in a link for all of you to notice. But upon re-reading I deleted it out.

The difference is whether you just click right on by or stop and take a look. Many in the west don't even know there is another road, let alone have some inkling that you can follow it.

Pietro, do you have anything to add to this? I ask because it was you who brought it back.

Aum Namasivaya

NayaSurya
02 December 2010, 06:47 PM
Vannakkam:

Being surrounded by the opposite forces make it so very difficult. Fortunately, the inherent nature of the will allows us to just drive past. Who among us hasn't experienced the occasional wrong turn on this wretched highway of the internet?


Wrong turns? How about utter detours into the abyss?:p

Adhvagat
02 December 2010, 07:17 PM
I have some insights to share too.

I'll develop them better tomorrow, need to get some sleep because I have to work early tomorrow.

Om Tat Sat

Eastern Mind
03 December 2010, 07:21 AM
Wrong turns? How about utter detours into the abyss?:p

Vannakkamm: Its nice to start the day with a laugh. Nandri.
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Aum Namasivaya

Maya3
03 December 2010, 07:36 AM
I think seeing attractive people is part of life, there is nothing wrong with looking.
Life is full of beauty, we are here to enjoy the Lila, if we get too attached and too obsessed then it´s different. But I think that people do get obsessed because they try to suppress their feelings.

My husband and I have been together for almost 20 years now, we have a free looking policy. We can look so nothing becomes secretive, nothing is cheating with the mind, we are not jealous if one of us sees someone attractive, we are just looking, no stress, no distractions that takes us away from anything.

Life is beautiful and fun, I´m grateful to be in a body that can enjoy itself.
I still have energy and focus for my spiritual practice.

Maya

Eastern Mind
03 December 2010, 08:10 AM
suppress



Vannakkam:

I think you may have meant repress but I'm not so sure. Yes sexuality can be such a hindrance on the path, if its not seen in a clear light. Listen to the Abrahamics use of the word 'smut'. You can just tell that they have far more negative attachment to it than most Sanatani thinkers ever will. To deny that you don't notice a beautiful person physically would like claiming you're a Guru, seeing beyond the physical body all the time. its a lie.
But your immediate reaction to it or what's done about it, or even how you deal with the unbeautiful tells a whole lot more. The world is a movie, and in this way you can watch the watchers. If I'm in a mall, and waiting for Boss to finish shopping, I people watch. The real amazing thing is to watch the watchers. So when a handsome young man or pretty young woman (or a member of a different race, or a tall person, or a handicapped person) walks by, take a look at reactions of the people around you. You can discover a lot about your self in this way.

Maya3
03 December 2010, 08:16 AM
Thank you,
Repress is better.
English is not my first language so I might get it wrong now and then.

I'm going to check out the watchers next time, that is a great idea.

This isn't really relevant, but it made me think of it, I will never forget when I asked a man in a wheelchair what time it was. He looked SO happy that I asked. I just wanted to know what time it was, but from his reaction I gathered that a lot of people assume that just because his legs doesn't work, he does not have a functioning brain either.

Maya

Eastern Mind
03 December 2010, 08:29 AM
Vannakkam Maya:

Yes, that's a great example of what I mean. I find watching twitterpated men particularly funny too. One year at my school there were two distinctly different looking secretaries. One was verging on obese, witty as a comedian, wise etc, whilst the other was this pretty young thang. One of the male staff members was particularly unaware of his 'uh... shortcomings. I used to sit and visit the smart one at her desk. Together we'd observe people at the front counter in the morning. This guy liked to 'help' that pretty young thang with the various questions from parents etc in the morning before school. One day my friend leaned over and whispered, "You know, he doesn't even know my name." ... and we laughed.

Aum Namasivaya

Adhvagat
03 December 2010, 08:54 AM
Having had contact with Sanatana Dharma through ISKCON when I was 13 years old made me get into contact with the concepts of pratyahara at a stage where I wasn't really mature as a person as well.

I've been through several phases, but the worst marked me the most. I think outright repression (that happened when I was between 14 and 15 and looking back I think I was very fanatical) was the worst, because it had the opposite effect in my mind, all I could think about was sex, I fought internally so I wouldn't look at any girls, but the senses would always win.

I think maturity started to arive when I began to put things into perspective, after not just the personal level, but the social, interpersonal, psychological. It was when I had the opportunity to look beyond the attachments and understand what generates them, what drives people to hold to them.

After dettaching a lot of significance from objects that would generate a lot of sexual desire, the object itself becomes of little interest and importance.

It was also because of a more profound and genuine interest in philosophy and spirituality and the joys that it gave to me that I acknowledged the right thing is to focus energy on spirituality.

I still have several problems in this regard, my past experience is of a imature child and now my social surroundings are mostly made of people with focus on gross material gratification which doesn't make me sad or feeling out of place like before but just distant from most people, quite few are interested in what I want now.

As you can see my mind is not perfectly clear on this matters, I'm just sharing my side and I commented in the topic because it's good to see how other people deal with it.

Om Tat Sat

Eastern Mind
03 December 2010, 09:22 AM
Vannakkam Pietro: I think it is far more common that we'd all like to think that spiritual teachers don't recognise the level of spirituality that their students are at. The "Just say no" that some educational districts in the US have as their entire sex education program is an example, when the very same school district has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in America.

So you're absolutely right that repression just makes it worse. And sometimes far far worse, as in the pedophile priests within the Catholic church. Denial of the sex drive is like the denial of death. Of course in proper renunciation in the world of monks and swamis and nuns, it is a different matter. There the energy is purposefully channeled into spiritual pursuits, and the slow but sure on the path rising of the kundalini serpent, all guided by a truly realised Guru, not some potluck mishmash of this or that of confusion. And of course, because of past life experiences, and soul evolution, this varies widely from individual to individual. There is no 'one size fits all', pardon the innuendo.

Going off topic but for a moment, I actually think that the reason the Pope made the latest proclamation about the exception to the once forbidden condom rule is that too many of the bishops, fathers, cardinals, and brothers now have AIDS and this is a way of protecting the possible next big scandal to hit that church, besides the pedophilia one. But maybe I'm just cynical. http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/74.htm

If you're not ready (as you weren't when you were 13 or 14, nor was I) then a much more dharmic channel would be early marriage within the guidance of a well balanced family. Then instead of all the crazy dating games, promiscuity, etc. there would be a certain level of dharma there. My wife and I could have saved each other a lot of 'trouble' if we'd married about 4 years earlier instead of at 20. But of course all this talk of sexuality was hidden away somewhere only to be discovered the hard way by disease or pregnancy.

My Guru wrote a whole book entitled 'Saivite Virtue' to help young people with this dilemma. Its a much healthier and common sense approach to directing sexuality that the 'Just say No' approach, that's for sure.

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

Adhvagat
04 December 2010, 02:49 AM
EM, I googled and found the 'Saivite Virtue' book. I almost read it entirely now.

Pretty interesting and deals with concepts that I have never read about before. Like the first paragraph of this chapter: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/virtue/ChapterFive.html

The amount of subtle energy clutter that is 'floating' around is just crazy. No wonder I always had aversion of such crowded places specially those dedicated to gross enjoyment like night clubs and bars.

I'll re-read some parts and finish the reading tomorrow. Thank you for the recommendation.

Hari Om Tat Sat

c.smith
15 October 2013, 06:14 AM
Hari Om!

Browsing through the forums this morning and discovered this gem of a thread. So much wealth here that I couldn't go without commenting and thanking many of the contributors.

I too have struggled here and continue to do so today but by the grace of Guru have been released of much of the burden. Many of the suggestions within this precious thread have been used with great benefit and continue so today. One that I use is to chant my Guru Mantra at difficult times (in any difficulty that is) and to feel One with Him.

For those who have not read the complete thread, it is my opinion that it has a lesson for everyone. Please avail.

kallol
25 October 2013, 12:07 AM
Let me put my little bit as I have practiced.

Yes it is natural for a male to look at opposite sex - I understand it is same the other side also. Rather not having this quality is not so natural.

However the desire beyind just looking and glancing is mostly moderated by 2 things.

1. Intellect - Intellect with right knowledge will keep the mind duty bound and keep it away from moving beyond looking

2. Habit - Wherever the weakness is there that mind cannot be subdued by intellect alone - the habit of avoiding comes in place. Avoid whatever you want to avoid but cannot avoid.

Continuously improving on the intellect to strengthen the resolve and duty boundedness will help in sprititual path. Avoidance is a temporary measure but should be practiced when intellect is not strong enough.

c.smith
25 October 2013, 09:32 AM
Hari Om!

Intellect is a great point to bring to the table as it does play a great role.

In my own opinion, avoidance is dangerous in that it is a form of suppression. Suppression leads the mind to crave further at a later time. Intellect and reason might lead one to sublimation, no? I'm not referring to celibacy here, but rather directing the sexual energy up the spine for more useful purposes, as in connecting with the Divine - seeing the Mother Goddess in women, etc as already referred to in other posts. If one wants to crave, let's carve to be one with Mother, be it Ambe Maa, etc.

Just my two cents.

Om

kallol
29 October 2013, 12:04 AM
Dear Smith,

For persons who are learned the intellect can be the right weapon to control the extravagant mind.

Till the intellect is weak, we need to take precautions as we do with our children in other aspects.

c.smith
30 October 2013, 12:04 AM
Hari Om!

Agreed to a point.

The mind must be conditioned, no? Assuming that you are speaking of prepubescent children, perhaps better to use reason and intellect but I feel that we will disagree when it comes to using suppression in adults. Still better, delayed gratification may be a better lesson for our youth than what I consider said suppression speaks.

Please do not take this as argument, only my offering and what has worked for me.

Om

kallol
30 October 2013, 01:55 AM
Spiritual intellect is different than normal intellect. A grownup person can be a kid in terms of spriritual intellect.

That was my point.

Dharmi
04 November 2013, 01:38 PM
Liquid Beauty
by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Why is the attraction between male and female so powerful?
What is the essence of this attraction?
And why does the Vedic literature call it illusion?


http://backtogodhead.in/liquid-beauty-by-his-divine-grace-a-c-bhaktivedanta-swami-prabhupada/