What will you doing if they do such this

[shian]

Namo Mahesvararaja Tathagataya

Namaste all,

i have 4 times get bad experience with christians

1. In my home shrine, my chritian friends has come to my house and they want see my shrine, when i go for fw minutes and then come back i have know one of them is pray in the name of Jesus in front of Earth Teritorial Gods murtis, and he pray to do eviction to my Gods.

2. When i walk out from temple, i see many young christian peoples (have cruch in near of temple) give temple the pamflet of jesus and hell. They moving very faster, i not sure from which cruch they are.

3. In the night i see televison, and have chritsian miracle story, have 2 peoples they sick and cannot good, and in the tv can see they do old religion pray go to Hindu temple (they shoot and take a action give offering in front of temple), they said old gods cannot cure them, after they become christian they become health etc.

4. Yesterday evening i go out from temple with my frinends car, and i see 4 christian peoples is pray in the front of temple with holy water and seem like purple flag (im not sure wich sect is this, because here so many sect of christian, but they seems like charismatic), and i ask friend to turn again the car and i get the photo and the number of them car. But my friend not stop drive so i cannot talk with christians.

They pray want others to away and leave the Dharma, oh, why them cannot life in peacefully ? why must do such things ? if they get reaction from other religion, they will call others is antichrist, is anti Jesus, but acctualy i am is no problem with jesus, the probelm is they have bad behaviour, very bad, they want we can see the love of jesus, but what they do is make others have bad view to jesus teachings.

so, ever you get this bad experience ?

and what you will do ?

[Znanna]

I'd likely not invite such folks into my home.

If by accident some felt obliged to try to change things here, I reckon the dragons would put them off.


ZN/and the fountains would wash them away..

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

In my personal opinion I dont think you have to do anything. They try to preach and convert hindus and others because they believe their sect is the right one and all else is wrong and therefore doomed to ETERNAL HELL. That is their view, their dilusion. It is alright though. They can pray for the destructions of our deities, but they are only praying to the same Ultimate Truth that we do. Therefore they are just nullifying their pleas.

Sanatana Dharma will survive, because people are doing bhakti yoga, karma yoga, and Raja yoga. As long as we are doing the best we can. Let them talk because action is all that matters. I dont mean violent action, I mean spiritual action. So let them talk the talk. But let us as Hindus walk the walk. We have to set an example for our own SELF. The Higher Self. The Self that is inseperable from the timeless Truth. The Truth of God.

That is all we need to do. Be in constant communion with God. Ask that God give them an open mind. And feel that your prayer is going to be answered. Be firm with a concentrated mind in your prayers. I find that this is working for me and I am seeing God answer my Prayers. I know that God is not just a dogmatic series of thought bubbles in the minds as the christians perceive. I know that God is deeper than dogma. So let us touch that dimension of truth and we will benefit even those christians that insult the deities and hand out phamplets.

As far as healing after becoming christian. Well I believe it. Why? Because the MIND is a powerful tool from God. When one prays to Jesus christ and feels his prayers will be answered he is touching that God power of healing. So he is healed because there is no SOLID MATTER. All matter is is a vibration of energy. It can be manipulated using the power of the mind. If the christians want to claim that physical healing is only done when one becomes a christian and leave "idols" then they are utterly ignorant. Just look at the great stories in Autobiography of a Yogi. Plus countless other stories and also other stories from other faiths. People have healed it is through God power that God has given us. It is all Siva.

with love
-juan

[Eastern Mind]

Shian, where is this happening? It sounds like you could report it to police if they are being that invasive in front a Hindu temple. Best of luck, and I'm sorry you had to encounter such nuts.

Aum Namasivaya

[chandu_69]

Namaste shian,

I have some practical suggestions to people like you.

You can ask some questions to those evangelical christians.Asking these questions need fair amount of knowledge about bible and the main stream Christian clergy.

1) If praying to Jesus with faith can cure somebody of his ailment why does the Pope rely on Modern medicine instead of Mass Prayers?

2)Ask them why Majority of Europeans rejected Jesus as savior

3)If they persist with their theory That Only Jesus can save you; which, by the way is Mainstream Christian Position ask them To whom Jesus was Praying/asking

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Ref:http://bible.cc/matthew/27-46.htm

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Ask them How Jesus can save you when his trusted father(Yahweh, the old testament god) has forsaken him.

Now here is the Vatican Position that Only Jesus SAVES.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a12.htm


1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

So, as you can see the missionary position that Only jesus can save has sound backing from the bible and MAIN STREAM christian position.

Only Knowledge about bible and Jesus Can save the gullible and misguided Hindus from these highly motivated but well meaning christians (yes, they actually believe they are saving the hindus) .

Yes, Jesus(knowledge about him) saves..Amen.

[shian]

Namaste Chandu, thank you for your advice

i know about christian theory, because i am is eks Christian too

but i very lazzy about debating theory

why ? because dont care how long you debate, many of them is only "Believe"
i have experience, my friends debate with me,
and they keep my words about christian theory when they in home, and night they cant sleep
one tell me , he is get stomacth pain when thinking about my words
because in my words their god become is like exsitence again, and he fell loose something and so get stomacth pain etc

so after that they said : "iam affraid to receive your words, dont care you is have right theory, but i am affraid God angry to me if i receive your theroy."

etc

and debate is need much time, but so many christian is do such things to me, and maybe i am will be crazy if i think about them, so many .... so many.... of them do it, i have subjugating the old one, and appear the new one wo do this nut things...oh God

[surtibadshah]

man first never invite friends who arent respectful, they dont deserve you.
and regarding jesus miracle theory thats a bullshit, pope paul 2 cant even cure his own parkinson how can he heal the world.
they are prestaged actor, paid to do so and shout hollelujah(or something like that) i use to watch that as a comedy show when i was in states. eg they give chlorquine or quinine pills to one who has malaria and call it a jesus pills and ya such jesus pills are for many curable disease.

thats sick but reality. and this is use as a very powerful tool to convert ignorant people to christianity specially in india.

atleast i respect muslims in those terms because jehadi say in front of us that they dont like us but many christian folks always play in disguise.

better beware.

[chandu_69]

Namaste Shian,

I can understand your reluctance to spend lot of time in analysing and debating christian theology.I sent you a pm for a quick reference.But you have to always cross check with the source.

[chandu_69]

Also you can ask them to prove the Jesus cures dogma in a scientific setting of randi.org.

James randi exposed many Fradulent "faith healers" in USA.

[sunyata07]

Namaste Shian,

I thankfully have not had any of those experiences yet, as the country I live in is still largely Christian. I can however expect that as the Hindu, Buddhist and other religious communities grow this kind of behaviour will happen near where I live someday, so I'm not looking forward to it. I will know how to respond to these kinds of people, however, and their talk of hellfire and false idols. I will simply ignore them. These people are ignorant in the greatest sense of the word. Like SS says, they are totally deluded into thinking their path is the One. The Only. All other paths to God are false in their eyes, and I suppose in a sense can you blame them? Their God and Bible promotes intolerance and exclusion of other beliefs. They haven't really understood the teachings of Christ if they continue to treat others like this.

My advice would be to just ignore them. If the "friends" you have graciously invited into your home cannot even have the courtesy to respect your beliefs and that they would pray to remove the "evil" from your shrine, these people are not deserving of your hospitality. Don't invite them in again.

Those "miracle" stories you see on TV are just propoganda. I'm glad to say most people would know this, even Christians (there are normal Christians out there, believe it or not)! It wasn't so long ago that I was once a Catholic, and even that kind of culturally and religiously insensitive promotion disgusts me.

The funny thing is while Bible-thumpers get more and more vocal about their God and attack other religions, you can plainly see that most Westerners and Christians have lost touch and are disillusioned with their religion. This is evident now more than ever in today's Western society. None of my friends are religious in any sense - they may be Christian, but only in name. In reality many don't care for the Church. No one I know goes to Mass or church services anymore. That's probably why Christian youth groups are getting more... desperate (and annoying).

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste: The irony for the bible thumpers is that in most cases, at least here in the west, their strategy backfires. The more pushy they get, the more annoying they get, and the less chance they have of converting anyone. They cater to the stupid of the masses. There is some evidence pointing to a conspiracy theory of the right wing in Americaa cutting support to education just to keep people stupid so they continue to follow a doctrine that can easily be seen through. There is a lady on my block that nobody likes, and she just can't figure it out.

Aum Namasivaya

[chandu_69]

Namaste: The irony for the bible thumpers is that in most cases, at least here in the west, their strategy backfires. The more pushy they get, the more annoying they get, and the less chance they have of converting anyone.

Namaste Atanu

But the Bible thumping christian missionaries have a very high success rate in India.Many Hindus(the poor and the gullible ofcourse) fall for their "faith healing" missions(Amply supported by gifts of cash and kind) and start hating Hindu gods for failure to Heal the Sick.

[chandu_69]

Shian if i am not inundating you with biblical quotes i have one more argument which you may find handy.

Jesus declared while he was alive his Mission was exclusively meant for Jews

Before death:
Jesus sent apostles to preach exclusively to jews

Matthew 10:5-6:
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."


Evidently his mission of saving the Jews(The lost sheep of israle) was not exactly a roaring sucess.


So the Apostles expanded their mission to include all nations
here is what they added after Jesus's death(Er..passing away)
Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age”.


There is also Another quote from Gospel of John(which was officially written after death of Jesus's death) to include all nations.

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste Atanu

But the Bible thumping christian missionaries have a very high success rate in India.Many Hindus(the poor and the gullible ofcourse) fall for their "faith healing" missions(Amply supported by gifts of cash and kind) and start hating Hindu gods for failure to Heal the Sick.

Yes, I know. That's why I said 'here in the west'. This topic has been discussed before, but here is another short summary of things that need to happen in India.

- More education by Hindus for Hindus.
- Government laws banning unethical conversion, and all sorts of proseletysing.
-A return of locally controlled temples, so money from temples can be used to promote Hindu arts, charity, training of priests, etc.
-More standing up and being counted by Hindu leaders. Swami Dayananda, Subramuniyaswami, and others have been anti-conversion for years, but many of the universalist type are not.
- An 'at a distance' respect for genuine non-proseletysing Christians, and others, but from a distance. (tolerance for all humanity)

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Hinduism Today has a lot of information on unethical conversion. You can search on their site for back issue articles.
Even the moderate Christians are against it. See here: http://www.crosswalk.com/1396234/

Aum

[atanu]

-More standing up and being counted by Hindu leaders. Swami Dayananda, Subramuniyaswami, and others have been anti-conversion for years, but many of the universalist type are not.
- An 'at a distance' respect for genuine non-proseletysing Christians, and others, but from a distance. (tolerance for all humanity)

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste EM,

Genuine universalist hindus are also anti conversion. Conversion by coertion or inducement is opposed without any ifs and buts. Staunchest advaitins, such as Shankaracharyas of various mathas are the staunchest critics of changing one's dharma.

But no such guru will pick up a few verses from Bible to grind axe.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji

I loud your strong acknowledge for truth, even through those, whose very belief caused the land of Bharat untold misery and continue to be a source of pain.

Just one question, say for instance one who is so dear to you comes home and says, I have discovered the truth in Islam or Christ, would you congratulate them and say well done, Vedas bible and Quran speaks the same truth.

I have no problem with any religion, no Hindu does but if we fail to see the ground reality as it present itself now or the track record of the past then I am afraid we do no favours to ourselves or the dharma that we hold so dear.
We keep seeing the truth in all and that is fine but when that is one sided we become victim of others evil intent and that is what I guess a lot of people like Chandu ji and others are concerned off and I also applaud their effort.
　
Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji
Just one question, say for instance one who is so dear to you comes home and says, I have discovered the truth in Islam or Christ, would you congratulate them and say well done, Vedas bible and Quran speaks the same truth.

Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

You know my firm faith. Don't you? For a Hindu, there is no need to convert in search for truth, except for two reasons:1. People do not convert to Islam or christianity in search of truth. They do it out of greed or fear. 2. Painful neglect and insults to fellow humans in the name of caste is also not good.
---------------------

In general, the preachers of Christianity or of Islam have nothing to offer to Sanatana Dharma, except rajasic mis-guidance in the form of enticement or coersion. But that, IMO, does not mean that Bible or Koran contain the falsity. The word (Vak Devi) is faultless and far above the human ego, which bends and twists scripture for its own ends. The original problem that Shian has cited is actually goondaism/vandalism and has nothing to do with spirituality. Such problems need police and legal intervention.

I detest convesion efforts. But, IMO, picking a verse from Koran to blame the religion is akin to a muslim showing Shiva and Krishna as lusty. These are people/ego problems and must not be generalised.

http://lite.epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/CAP/2009/08/06/14/Img/Ar0140801.png



Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji

of course I know where you stand on your faith, I think.
even though we have not met(not my fault) it seem i know you from way back.



1. People do not convert to Islam or christianity in search of truth. They do it out of greed or fear.

This is precisely the point, why then give credence to organisations whose aim is not the truth, who do not preach the truth.



2. Painful neglect and insults to fellow humans in the name of caste is not good.
---------------------

This is a vast subject, you may wish to open a new thread to discuss
　
I will not apologise for the varna system as given by Shastra, as to the insult and neglect we can go back in history and try see reasons, you might find the hand of those so called religion some where.



In general, the preachers of Christianity or of Islam have nothing to offer to Sanatana Dharma, except rajasic mis-guidance in the form of enticement or coersion.

Agreed, unfortunately when rajasic and tamsic predominates it is the satvic that suffers.
　


But that, IMO, does not mean that Bible or Koran contain the falsity. The word (Vak Devi) is faultless and far above the human ego, which bends and twists scripture for its own ends.

Not having read either of them I am hardly in a position to comment except on few well known and discussed statements, their conduct and opinion.
Nice words you speak of Vak devi, no human is free from ego but it seems ego has been fuelled instead of subdued .

Tree would be judged by the fruit it provide, as we say in Guajarati, Bap jevo beto ane Vad jevo teto.



I detest convesion efforts. But, IMO, picking a verse from Koran to blame the religion is akin to a muslim showing Shiva and Krishna as lusty. These are people/ego problems and must not be generalised.

Do you think any Hindu be bothered if not for conversion effort? Do we care what is in bible or Koran, how many times you have heard protest from those who want to convert in to Hindu faith that they are discouraged, you know as well as I, truth is sought after and not forced.

Generalisation does not happen by our choosing, it is invited upon us, there is no escaping the fact and as you agree the preachers of Christianity or of Islam have nothing to offer to Sanatana Dharma.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste:

2. Painful neglect and insults to fellow humans in the name of caste is not good.

Caste here in the west can be changed to class, race, gender, age. You name it. Caste in the west is just better disguised, but trust me, its alive and well.

Aum Namasivaya

[atanu]

This is a vast subject, you may wish to open a new thread to discuss
　
I will not apologise for the varna system as given by Shastra, as to the insult and neglect we can go back in history and try see reasons, you might find the hand of those so called religion some where.

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

You have a valid point here. Varna is a statement of natural fact. All varna come and go into a single Purusha, Sarvesvara, Pragnya Ghana, Ghana Shyam.


Nice words you speak of Vak devi, no human is free from ego but it seems ego has been fuelled instead of subdued .

Vandals would be vandals. Out of these some go through change of heart as per God's grace. Scripture plays a role here.


Tree would be judged by the fruit it provide, as we say in Guajarati, Bap jevo beto ane Vad jevo teto.

In this case, the blame would finally go to God? Somewhere along the line there must be a falsity ---just contemplate.

Differences are easy to perceive and act upon. But how many are graced with the knowledge that there is only one purusha connecting all this diversity? Very few and again most such Jnanis belong to Sanatana Dharma. One's perspective will depend on the premise. Does one start from the knowledge of ONE PURUSHA. Or whether one starts from 'Us and Them'?

For example. I hear many speak "Woh chamar hai, achyut hai". I wish to remind "Woh Vishnu ka pair hai".


Do you think any Hindu be bothered if not for conversion effort? Do we care what is in bible or Koran, how many times you have heard protest from those who want to convert in to Hindu faith that they are discouraged, you know as well as I, truth is sought after and not forced.

Generalisation does not happen by our choosing, it is invited upon us, there is no escaping the fact and as you agree the preachers of Christianity or of Islam have nothing to offer to Sanatana Dharma.

Jai Shree Krishna

I understand the strong adversity and the nature of this test. It is easy to remember 'Us and them' and easy to forget 'One Purusha' under the circumstances. But by thinking continually about 'us and them' and also verbalizing such thoughts, the falsity and enmity get perpetuated.

That does not mean, however, resorting to inaction. I believe that actions flowing out of Lord's teaching "That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).", will be perfect.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[TatTvamAsi]

That does not mean, however, resorting to inaction.


Namaste Atanu,

What action do you propose to counter such nonsense? We all agree inaction will lead to disaster as mentioned by Sri Krishna in BG but what action do you suggest?

Any action taken is immediately shouted down by HINDUS themselves! All action by Hindus, violent or otherwise, is ONLY in RETALIATION or a REACTION to the aggression by these adharmic forces.

You know very well what I will say. However, I am interested in hearing your opinion on these matters.

Namaskar.

[devotee]

I hear many speak "Woh chamar hai, achyut hai". I wish to remind "Woh Vishnu ka pair hai".


Excellent Atanu ! Simply Brilliant !! :)


OM

[atanu]

Namaste Atanu,
You know very well what I will say. However, I am interested in hearing your opinion on these matters.

Namaskar.

Namaste TTA,

You also know very well, what I will reply. Isn't it? This discussion has been going on for so long -- and will continue eternally since ignorance of a separate "I" is eternal. The Universe-Virat is not separate from oneself. There is sh-t and there is honey. There is sattwa, there is rajas, and there is tamas. One may decide to prefer one over another.

For example. While in South India, i subscribed to The Hindu newspaper, which I liked. Now, I am forced to subscribe to Times of India, which I abhor since it is not a newspaper. It sells because of its semi nude pictures in almost every page. Even an old man like me has to give a second look to those pictures, what about young and vulnerable? However, there is a small spiritual column. I just read that. Now strong reformers (like muslims or communists) may go and break The Times of India office but that will not change anything. The general problem of exploiting basic insctincts as a lure for furthering business interests will not vanish.

Even if you are able to wipe out all muslims and christians from the face of this earth, there will remain the general problem of hatred related to "I-Me-Mine" and "Us and them" falsity.

Do we forget often that this world is Virat Purusha as per its own will? And our ego perception of 'me' being separate (and also purer) is an ignorance?


Now, to answer you very specifically. We have seen the understanding of Gita will vary hugely -- but these are of no avail. As per my understanding of Gita, I will try to do the work alloted to me as worship. If my job was in police/military/secret services, I would work without taking bribe.

Om Namah Shivaya

[chandu_69]

The christian missionaries no longer use caste as a card in their missionary activities because the dalit christians are discriminated in christianity.



http://arya-shakti-dal.blogspot.com/2008/08/tamil-nadu-dalit-christians-to-return.html

http://www.dalitchristians.com/Html/CRI.htm


(http://www.dalitchristians.com)

[Znanna]

Even if you are able to wipe out all muslims and christians from the face of this earth, there will remain the general problem of hatred related to "I-Me-Mine" and "Us and them" falsity.


True, but it would go a long way to ending the perpetuation of the meme :)



Namaste,
ZN

[atanu]

[/color]


True, but it would go a long way to ending the perpetuation of the meme :)



Namaste,
ZN

Namaste ZN,

To be replaced by another and possibly more vicious self perpetuating meme? Meme is -- that is what gunas are.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji



Vandals would be vandals. Out of these some go through change of heart as per God's grace. Scripture plays a role here.

When we scrutinise these scripture through Veda’s eyes, sure we only see good, remove the Vedas glasses the picture change and the result is clear to see, these are the ground reality non of us can escape, ignore it at your own peril.
　


In this case, the blame would finally go to God? Somewhere along the line there must be a falsity ---just contemplate.

God is blameless always,
good and bad day and night, sukal paksh and Krishna paksh, utrayan and dakshiyan all of it is related. One follows the other, knowledge of both is a samdarsi

Our job is to find why we are here, what is the purpose of creation, why we are caught in this falsity?

If you can find answers in those scriptures you accept it, or else you reject it, simple really.

Chapter 16.
TEXT 6
dvau bhuta-sargau loke 'smin
daiva asura eva ca
daivo vistarasah prokta
asuram partha me srnu

O son of Prtha, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac.
So I state again a tree would be known by the fruit it produces.

　


Differences are easy to perceive and act upon. But how many are graced with the knowledge that there is only one purusha connecting all this diversity? Very few and again most such Jnanis belong to Sanatana Dharma. One's perspective will depend on the premise. Does one start from the knowledge of ONE PURUSHA. Or whether one starts from 'Us and Them'?

Both is required to make the informed judgement, The Gita's message of Samdarsi (vidya vinaya sampane, brahmane gavi hastini...) isn't that we should take philosophical lessons from the cow and then try to milk the brahmana.



For example. I hear many speak "Woh chamar hai, achyut hai". I wish to remind "Woh Vishnu ka pair hai".

No one here is defending such ignorance, infect it is such statements in guise, of heathens and infidels, who are idol worshipers going to hell are subject of debate.

　
　


I understand the strong adversity and the nature of this test. It is easy to remember 'Us and them' and easy to forget 'One Purusha' under the circumstances. But by thinking continually about 'us and them' and also verbalizing such thoughts, the falsity and enmity get perpetuated.
　
　
They obviously and without ambiguity think this one Purusha is different and this information is derived from the scripture they follow.

You can not blame this ‘them and us’ on Vedic people and thus make your case, the ball is entirely in their court, if we can and we do see all creatures not just humans as creation of Eko, then this falsity and enmity can not be pinned on us and the danger is, if we remain indifferent to it and burry our head in the sand then result would be same as 1000s of years of subjugation.



That does not mean, however, resorting to inaction. I believe that actions flowing out of Lord's teaching "That by which one sees the one indestructible Reality in all beings, not separate in all the separate beings—know thou that knowledge to be Sattwic (pure).", will be perfect.

And we must also remind our self of the dharma of a ksatriya as Krishna says
Chapter 18. TEXT 43
sauryam tejo dhrtir daksyam
yuddhe capy apalayanam
danam isvara-bhavas ca
ksatram karma svabhava-jam
　
TRANSLATION
Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the ksatriyas.

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji

They obviously and without ambiguity think this one Purusha is different and this information is derived from the scripture they follow.Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasd ji,

I agree and disagree. Despite our scripture teaching so, many do not believe that the Universe is the divine Purusha. Similarly, despite the following clear scripture many muslims fail to understand one Soul.

"6.98":And He it is Who has brought you into being from a single soul, then there is (for you) a resting-place and a depository; indeed We have made plain the communications for a people who understand.

"31.28":Neither your creation nor your raising is anything but as a single soul; surely Allah is Hearing, Seeing.

Obviously we call it ignorance of ego. They call it the whispering of shaitan that creates selfishness.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji





I agree and disagree. Despite our scripture teaching so, many do not believe that the Universe is the divine Purusha.

I have no problem you to disagree, infect i enjoy you to have your independence and mine, this is the difference, Krishna says in the end to Arjun

Chapter 18, Verse 63. (http://www.asitis.com/18/63.html)
http://www.asitis.com/gif/bump.gifThus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do.




Similarly, despite the following clear scripture many muslims fail to understand one Soul.

"6.98":And He it is Who has brought you into being from a single soul, then there is (for you) a resting-place and a depository; indeed We have made plain the communications for a people who understand.

"31.28":Neither your creation nor your raising is anything but as a single soul; surely Allah is Hearing, Seeing.

Obviously we call it ignorance of ego. They call it the whispering of shaitan that creates selfishness.

Om Namah Shivaya

there is gulf of difference what we call ego and their defination of satan, according to their understanding we are all satan.

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji

there is gulf of difference what we call ego and their defination of satan, according to their understanding we are all satan.

Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

Again, I am not talking of what they or us think. The thinking is from ego. The scripture does not say that we are shaitan. Scripture says all are but a single soul. Scripture says as below:

"6.98":And He it is Who has brought you into being from a single soul, then there is (for you) a resting-place and a depository; indeed We have made plain the communications for a people who understand.

"31.28":Neither your creation nor your raising is anything but as a single soul; surely Allah is Hearing, Seeing.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

Again, I am not talking of what they or us think. The thinking is from ego. The scripture does not say that we are shaitan. Scripture says all are but a single soul. Scripture says as below:



Om Namah Shivaya

Thanks, but we have to be careful here what we are debating, i have no intrest in their scripture, besides if i remember rightly correct me if i am wrong, the earlier sura (or what ever they call them) is superseeded by the later. That aside, my response was to this below


Obviously we call it ignorance of ego. They call it the whispering of shaitan that creates selfishness.

so yes in their eyes we are satan.

i cant keep up if you change the context.



Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji

so yes in their eyes we are satan.
Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

So what. We say all are mlecchas. I am not concerned with what is idea. Beyond all this is the good knowledge, not discerninble by senses.

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji
They obviously and without ambiguity think this one Purusha is different and this information is derived from the scripture they follow.


It is the ignorance of Bhandasura that makes one think that 'They' is unconnected to ME.

"41.34":　And not alike are the good and the evil. Repel (evil) with what is best, when lo! he between whom and you was enmity would be as if he were a warm friend.
　
"41.35":　And none are made to receive it but those who are patient, and none are made to receive it but those who have a mighty good fortune

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

So what. We say all are mlecchas. I am not concerned with what is idea. Beyond all this is the good knowledge, not discerninble by senses.

Om Namah Shivaya

Do we say that? Please don’t turn this on us, we are not the one going out to change the world, inducing people or coercing anyone to conform.

It is nice to see beyond, it is all honky-dory there, unfortunately we have to deal with present, one can not remain indifferent to it.




It is the ignorance of Bhandasura that makes one think that 'They' is unconnected to ME.

Lets not discuss my short coming, let us analyse this bhandasura, why do they feel need to change us Vedic people?
Why is their thinking so different on those scripture as against yours? Are they reading the same scriptures, it is not as if in the beginning there was Pease and in due course of time things changed, as far the history goes it began on the strength of sword and it continues.

So tell me would you swap your Vedas for Koran and do your sadhna?

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji
It is nice to see beyond, it is all honky-dory there, unfortunately we have to deal with present, one can not remain indifferent to it.

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

I agree. Yet, is it not worth the try to abide by sattwa and Lord's teaching: "Surrender to Me"? THat actually is the present. What we call present is actually the thoughts of many kinds.


Lets not discuss my short coming, let us analyse this bhandasura, why do they feel need to change us Vedic people?
Why is their thinking so different on those scripture as against yours? Are they reading the same scriptures, it is not as if in the beginning there was Pease and in due course of time things changed, as far the history goes it began on the strength of sword and it continues.

I am sorry that it came across as if I was pointing to your shortcoming. I meant 'one' as a general term. Sorry again.

What and How do I know as to what is Ishwara's will? I only know that nothing is beyond Ishwara who is immanent in All and who is transcendental Eko and who has dominion over both earth and heaven. All I know is what is given in Bhavisya Purana. You may like to go through that and the following two posts:

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=31018&postcount=5
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=31020&postcount=6



So tell me would you swap your Vedas for Koran and do your sadhna?

Why should it be so? I have no doubt that Rudra, as stated in scripture, is the root, worshipping which all are worshipped. Since, I have no doubt, so I do not think, even in my dream that Allah, is a Second God. I worship Shiva knowing without doubt that I am submitting to the One wherein the world disappears. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second. I say "Namah Shivaya" knowing that it is "Namah to One and All".

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

I agree. Yet, is it not worth the try to abide by sattwa and Lord's teaching: "Surrender to Me"? THat actually is the present. What we call present is actually the thoughts of many kinds.
Om Namah Shivaya

Always abide in sattwa, Vedas will never advise otherwise.
Arjun wanted to leave the battlefield, yet in the end he surrendered to Krishna and said he would fight as instructed. Defending, being wise after horrible experience meted by aggressor, is not only sattwa but a must ksatriya dharma.
　
　
　


What and How do I know as to what is Ishwara's will? I only know that nothing is beyond Ishwara who is immanent in All and who is transcendental Eko and who has dominion over both earth and heaven. All I know is what is given in Bhavisya Purana. You may like to go through that and the following two posts:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...18&postcount=5
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...20&postcount=6 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...20&postcount=6)



One of Ishwar’s will to Arjun was, and it apply to all jiva.

Thus the knowledge that is more secret than the secret has been explained to you by Me. After fully reflecting on this, do as you wish. (18.63)

worth contemplating.

Eko does not have double standard. compare if you wish, I have heard and seen enough of other side, to have my doubts, but still I do not deny their worship, it is their choice all I ask for them to leave non believers alone.

Bhavisya Puran is heavily interpolated to be a source of reliable evidence, so excuse me if don’t comment.
　
　
　
　
　
　


Why should it be so? I have no doubt that Rudra, as stated in scripture, is the root, worshipping which all are worshipped. Since, I have no doubt, so I do not think, even in my dream that Allah, is a Second God.

I also believe there is but one God, we call them by different names and forms, there is enough evidence in Vedas for us to form a judgement.

Taking a cue from Gita chapter 16, one can easily formulate the opinion what is devi and asuric tendency, rape, murder slavery and so forth hardly fall in the category of Devine let alone God.



I worship Shiva knowing without doubt that I am submitting to the One wherein the world disappears. He is the peaceful, the good, the one without a second. I say "Namah Shivaya" knowing that it is "Namah to One and All".

And only a devotee of god would defend a right of others to worship whom so ever one chooses, even at an expense of ones own worship become subject of ridicule, see the difference, they came in as aggressor, pillaged our place of worship, go to Kasi Mathura and many of Vedic temples lay ruin, evidence is heart breaking.

These are not commands of one without a second or the character of one who follows that all merciful.
　
　
　
Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji
Bhavisya Puran is heavily interpolated to be a source of reliable evidence, so excuse me if don’t comment. 　
Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasad ji,

I respect your experience and your understanding therefrom. But as to above, I feel that then we should also impartially point out to those who use Bhavisya Purana story for the reverse purpose.

Any way.

Let me place my understanding and then allow each other to mature with contemplation.

Atman is unborn and advait. The being, the Purusha, that comes up is also Eko. But on expansion, the Eko Purusha is parted in three: The Vasus, The Rudras, and the Adityas. The Vasus are the children, taken care of by Vasudeva. The Adityas are the old souls, who have known the Aditya, the Sun, the Death as the inevitable goal of eveyone. The Rudras were left in the middle, without support on either side. Yajur Veda says: So, the Rudras are cruel.

Infants, children and young, till age of 20 represent the Vasus, dependent. Those aged above 50 years, represent the Adityas. The middle group represent the Rudras. So is with the souls: young souls are supported and old souls are submissive. The middling souls are noisy, boisterous, falsely confident, and appear as cruel.

It is the nature of nature.

:) How do parents and grandparents teach and control their rebellious middle aged children?
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The above is for the so-called practicality. But the truth of the truth is the dreamer and nothing else.


Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji





:) How do parents and grandparents teach and control their rebellious middle aged children?
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Om Namah Shivaya

Very simple, build the foundation strong, then even if one is distracted in the middle, one will always return and then it will be their turn to be parents and grandparent.

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji

Very simple, build the foundation strong, then even if one is distracted in the middle, one will always return and then it will be their turn to be parents and grandparent.

Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasad Ji,

I agree except that I think it is not so simple. At least I am not above my own guna attachments and so i do not believe that teaching is simple for me. Sadashiva is the teacher -- anytime and anyplace.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya