Can we celebrate christmas?

[Sherab]

As western hindus, not for religious purposes, but for the social ones?

Namaste

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

Good question. I think the answers from our knowledgable Hindu brothers and sisters is that it is fine. After all Sanatana Dharma is nothing like Islam and other religions that make it an all or nothing way. Ofcourse mixing religions may cause confusions but simply making it social I see it as fine. We await the answers of knowledable ones

[Sherab]

Namaste,

Good question. I think the answers from our knowledgable Hindu brothers and sisters is that it is fine. After all Sanatana Dharma is nothing like Islam and other religions that make it an all or nothing way. Ofcourse mixing religions may cause confusions but simply making it social I see it as fine. We await the answers of knowledable ones

Just cuz i have a nice wishlist on amazon.com going.. :)

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste, Vannakam:

I don't celebrate Christmas. Even the social part. I don't go to office parties, or staff parties. We're surrounded by it and I find it quite annoying that we don't have a choice. Do Christians celebrate Maha Sivaratri? Deepavali? Skanda Shasti? Guru Purnima? Navaratri? Tiruvembavai? Thai Poosam? Thai Pongal? Krishna Janmastami? I think not.

But if you must have the seasonal bit, try searching for Pancha Ganapati, a Ganesha festival created for this dilemma.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-Christmas, its just not a Hindu festival.

Aum Namasivaya

[Sherab]

Haha, i was just hoping for gifts.. hmmmm. :) maybe thats wrong of me.

[saidevo]

Long back, while in college, I imagined "why can't the most popular festival in each religion--such as DeepAvali, Christmas, and Ramzan--be universal?" so every household celebrated it in their own homes or in a community living, irrespective of their religious affiliations. With this idea in mind, I wrote a poem titled 'Deepavali' (I used to try scribbling English verses and show it to an Anglo-Indian lecturer of ours from whom I learnt English prosody), and gave the poem to an Anglo-Indian friend of mine whom I admired for his looks, manners, sociability, handwriting and knowledge (He was among the select few to whom I used to show my verses). He never used to speak about my compositions to his friends and returned this poem on Deepavali with a remark of something like: "Don't try to permeate your eastern religious compositions with the western atmosphere." (I don't remember his exact words, but I remember his using the term 'permeate'. Later, I learnt that this AI friend of mine married a brahmin girl--and possibly got her converted).

So I imagined in my poem, Anand and PriyA celebrating DeepAvali in their home, and that the festival was partaken by Rahim and Fatima and John and Jill, all the children participating in every festivity, striking the colored matches and bursting the crackers; I believed that such idyllic atmosphere of community living was possible where mutual respect and admiration for each other was the hallmark as well as the norm.

While working in office, I had a friend couple--Hindu wife and Christian husband--who loved each other right from their school days and married in due time. They celebrated the festivals of both religions and had pictures of Shiva, Ganesha, other Hindu Gods, Jesus along with them.

In that same office where I worked, some of my Christian colleagues wouldn't partake the Sarasvati PUja celebrations but receive their share of prasAdam--of puffed rice ('arisi pori') mixed with flattened rice ('aval') and jaggery pieces plus apples and bananas,--ensuring that their shares were kept separately and not offered to the Hindu god. Such attitude continues to this day among our office Christian colleagues--they would relish Hindu food but would want them 'unsullied' by being offered to Hindu gods. Some of them would buy crackers for Deepavali though, so their children are not left alone in the street activity of cracker-bursting where they live among Hindus. Recently, we had a Christian housemaid who would not accept our food on Hindu festive days!

Today's Hindu youth have easily taken to the Western ways of celebrating birthdays, wedding days and other special days such as the Valentine day, Mother's day and Friendship day--even to the extent of forgetting their own religious and spiritual days! The Western dress of trousers, shirt and tie have become ubiquitous, although most Hindu women wear the chuditar-dhupatta/salwar-kameez and more and more Hindu men take to kurta-pajamas for their wedding reception times. Hindu politicians regularly partake the Ramzan kanji (porridge) and the Christmas celebration in churches, although the other way round is never seen.

Among the other colors of the spectrum of life, we hear stories and see news items of Muslims in rural areas partaking the VinAyaka Chaturthi celebrations (although Muslims in Chennai vehemently--even violently--object the VinAyaka processions passing through the streets where they live or where their mosque is located); Christians in Goa continuing with their Hindu ceremonies to their ancestors; Western Hindus coming over to India and having their marriage performed in the traditional Hindu style; Muslim women replenishing the oil lamps in the outer courtyard of the Srirangam temple with sesame oil (there is a 'sannidhi' for Tulukka NAchiyAr in the temple where on festive days cigar is said to be offered in 'nivedanam'); and Muslims being trustees of one or two Hindu temples in Kashmir and ensuring that Hindu religious rituals are held everyday; while the Christian missionaries trying to convert the Hindu poor over offers of food and medicine, urging them to break their Hindu religious idols and portraits. The world of Hindu films is a standing example of religious co-existence where the skills of the artists from many religious go to make a film.

While I personally think today is that Hindus don't need to celebrate the festivals of other religions (we have too many of them ourselves and it is only proper that we know and celebrate them) since we have their equivalents in Hinduism, I can understand the situation--even the necessity--of our Western Hindus, specially where their family members and relatives are non-Hindus, celebrating the festivals of their parent religions. I think this could be a good opportunity of spreading the unique spiritual values of Hindu festivals by invitation of mutual participation in the festival celebrations of both religions.

[devotee]

Right from my childhood my parents taught me to respect all religions & people from all faiths & that happens to most of the Hindus. What is wrong in bowing to the divinity within Jesus ? Whenever we visit a Church we bow to the images of Jesus & Mary there.

Hindus see divinity everywhere. The problem arises from the other parties who try to ridicule our system & hurt our religious sentiments. Then there is birth of enmity & hatred in both sides.

The spiritual seeker should have no such reservations. He must see the same divinity expressed in all. Any resistance to bow to that divinity is due Ahamkara ( the ego ) which is the root cause of our downfall & all miseries.

OM

[Eastern Mind]

Haha, i was just hoping for gifts.. hmmmm. :) maybe thats wrong of me.

lol The gifts will come, regardless. I remember when I taught. I used to tell the students to give an equivalent amount to a charity. But still of course the gifts came. It would be downright rude and obnoxious to not accept them. Same thing when someone said 'Merry Christmas" to me.

But for some reason I really didn't like Christmas personally. I think it was just as much the commercialisation of it, as me being Hindu. But for the Christians themselves, I'm always happy for them. It is their BIG day.

For the folks from Mother India reading this, I do think its quite different in the social context between here in North America or Europe from India. Here its really ALL OVER THE PLACE. The shopping malls bring out Santa, and the carols being piped over the speakers some time around mid November.

But as we get more and more multicultural, things are slowly changing. Many stores are switching to seasonal celebration instead with employees and cashiers saying "Season's Greetings" instead.

Another beef I always had was the holiday, and day off thing. It seemed discriminatory to me for the government to give the Christians a day off, while I had to take a personal day without pay if I wanted to do Sivaratri. That too is changing, as legal cases challenge the laws.

Aum namasivaya

[sunyata07]

Right from my childhood my parents taught me to respect all religions & people from all faiths & that happens to most of the Hindus. What is wrong in bowing to the divinity within Jesus ? Whenever we visit a Church we bow to the images of Jesus & Mary there.

Hindus see divinity everywhere.


Devotee, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think there is a great nobility amongst Hindus (and other tolerant Eastern religions, like Buddhism) in accepting all paths and even sometimes even sharing in the spirit of celebration and community with other religions. Even though I am only recently following Hinduism, I still believe in the message and divinity of Jesus Christ and still keep a small statuette of the Virgin Mary on my desk that was given to me for my confirmation when I was 12. I still pray to them whenever family events requires me to go to church.

As for Christmas, I won't deny that it was and still is my favourite time of year. It was not so much the idea of receiving gifts that made me feel happy, but just being able to spend time with the family and visiting friends I hadn't seen in a while and getting them presents. :) I also love the preparation of food and togetherness that Christmas can bring. I'll admit that it has become very commercialised in recent years, with ads for Christmas shopping and Christmas songs being heard on the radio as early as the end of October over here! By the time Dec 25th does roll around, the feeling has been sapped away really. But I still do love the holiday and the spirit of goodwill people seem to have around the time.

[ScottMalaysia]

My wife's family are Hindus (although they are non-religious 'cultural Hindus') and we still go out for Christmas dinner. We don't put up a Christmas tree or give presents, though.

I accept Jesus as an incarnation of God, and Mary as an incarnation of the Holy Mother. Last Friday I visited the town of Klang, as I wanted to see the Sri Sundaraja Perumal Temple. However, it was closed when I arrived, and as I walked back towards the town, I saw a Catholic church. I went in and offered a prayer to the Holy Mother there, and I also prayed before the picture of Jesus.

At least Christmas isn't "all over the place" here in Malaysia. Yes, there are Christmas trees in the shopping malls, and street signs saying "Merry Christmas" in Malay, but it's not as intense as it is in New Zealand. Only 9.1% of Malaysians are Christian.


Today's Hindu youth have easily taken to the Western ways of celebrating birthdays, wedding days and other special days such as the Valentine day, Mother's day and Friendship day--even to the extent of forgetting their own religious and spiritual days!

Are you saying that Hindus shouldn't celebrate birthdays, Mother's Day, Father's Day or Valentine's Day? What's wrong with celebrating your birthday?

[saidevo]

I am not saying that Hindus should not celebrate their birthdays. My statement was more in anguish that today's Hindus don't remember their own religious, spiritual and cultural days but readily remember the worldly days of celebration introduced by the influence of Western culture.

[shian]

now Christmas is loose the christian meaning.
Become time to get some small party, shoping etc.

And

look from history

Christmas is not Jesus birth day, only Jehovah Witness claim they know original day of Jesus birthday

Christmas is birth of Sun God !

so i think celebrate Christmast is same with celebrate New Year, or another worldly happy event.

about worship Jesus and Virgin Marry, we can respect to Jesus, because respect in heart is a part of cultivation , but we need to focus on God form Guru give to us.

This is why some Gurus said "Only krsna the Supreme !"
or "Only Jesus the way."
"Only Buddha is Anuttara "

without that, peoples so easy to interesting with new and forget the important of focus.

[satay]

namaskar,


As western hindus, not for religious purposes, but for the social ones?

Namaste

In one word, the answer to your question is 'yes'. I know of many hindus living in the west that 'celebrate' christmas. I myself 'celebrate' christmas because my own wife is christian.

I put 'celebrate' in quotes because I don't really care about the jesus birth part. Dec. 25th is not his 'birth' day anyway. The whole dec. 25th celebration festival is stolen from a pagan ritual. Christians who think they are celebrating the birth of jesus on 25th are fooling themselves. It's a big con.

For me, I like the lights, the decorations, the hussle and bussle and of course the gifts during 'xmas' time.

So go ahead and enjoy your gifts without any guilt.

[Indra]

Namaste!

I celebrate christmas too but i celebrate on 7th january according to julian calender. My whole family celebrates christmas, even the ones who are not even baptized like my aunt and cousin.

[DavidC]

[...]Christmas is birth of Sun God ![...] Actually Yule is the sun god's birthday, though it is based on Earth's tilt and not perihelion, so the opposite sabbat simultaneous in the other hemisphere it is probably the sun god's death and the birth of the mother-wife-daughter of the sun god, but I forgot the details. There has been a lot of interesting discussion on whether Christmas is appropriate for Hindus, but I just wanted to point out Yule is different. There are advantages and disadvantages to saying Christmas is Yule, and a disadvantage is no one knows when it is and whether Yeshua was enlightened to the point of being like Surya or not. Perhaps Yeshua did say he was Amen(-Ra,) or perhaps people made up a story that he said that.

[sm78]

As western hindus, not for religious purposes, but for the social ones?

Namaste

Compulsions of living in the western society may make it impossible or difficult to socially avoid christmas (or at least the pre-christmas parties, which is a good thing imo ;) ).

But bowing to the image of christ / mary (in the true sense), one makes the relation with the hindu gods in samasti level weak and relation with the kristo-preta (hold ghost) strong. If one is convinced of the efficacy of the sanatana dharma as a means to achieve the 4 aims of life, such obidience to other gods (particularly when these gods do exist as pretas/ghost and are continously influencing human thought) is equivalent to a spiritual suicide.

More hindus practice such universalist practices (driven by emotional sentimentalism or improper intellectual understanding, never by any real spiritual experience)...more will be the difficult to obtain the grace of our gods and sanatana dharma will continue to shrink at a rapid pace, as it is doing now.

[shantiseeker]

I am resurrecting this thread as I continue to be an explorer of Hinduism, and in fact, when faced with challenges, I go right to Ganesh to help me overcome barriers, or help me understand that one barrier was put there so that I could go down another path that is better. And this is my first Xmas with a different view of God. As a Westerner, yes, Xmas is all over the place and the stores already have stuff out. Xmas here is pretty much a secular holiday anyway, and my personal view of it, is that for many people, it's just all the glitter and celebrations that really have nothing to do with the birth of Jesus. I grew up in a non-religious household, and we "celebrated" Xmas. It's almost a "given" that even agnostics here just about do. My "background" is RC, but I wasn't raised it. For the last 10 years, I have dreaded the season and just can't wait for it to be over. I watch everyone at work in a mad scramble competing to all be off at the same time, because heaven forbid, there aren't 51 other weeks in the year to see one's family. It's too canned for me. But since I'm here in the US where the lights are everywhere, I make the best of it and enjoy viewing some of the decorative displays, and because extended family celebrates, I'm trying to figure where I belong this year.

[NayaSurya]

You are where you belong, Beloved Portion.

Make the world you live in whatever you wish. Carve it out and make it your own.

In our world/home, we put a tree up each year and cover it in snow men and snow flakes. Our home shines the brightest!

From October/November for Diwali/Halloween all the way to Shivaratri/Valentines day (I find it wonderful how many american holidays line right up with the best of SD holidays) Our home remains lit for all of these holidays it's a tower of light upon this hill.

I say Happy Holly Days to everyone I meet... Of course I do not say I feel jesus is actually a fairytale created from stories they got about Beloved Krishna and Sidharta as that would hurt their feelings.

But, as I dwell amongst these gentle sleeping folk I feel very heartened to see the compassion shown at this time of year.

Yes, it should be year round...yes...it's over the top that children recieve 10000 of dollars in gifts in other homes.

But! The underlying theme of xmas here in the u.s. is Love...and any holiday celebrating Love is a holiday for me.:p

I was glad to see jesus removed from the celebrations and the Beloved Being known as Santa brough to the center...as Santa loves every child...I love the pictures of him holding hands with children from all over the world. That's what I hope for us all...

Santa is more of a portion of Beloved than anything else in this country.

Santa gets prayers, mantras in every american home sing about him...and even men dress as him for children to come see.

Idol of santa is placed all over home for others to adore.

Children write letters of Love to him.

Food offering is left for him....then parent take up offering and eat it later.

This, is a primary step to SD...and I feel a very good one!

I will say though, that the children here have also been very well taught about SD and Beloved. They understand we do not celebrate christmas, but Holly Days. This started very early as so they would not become confused with this huge difference. Even my 7 year old twins can explain this if they are pressed upon our beliefs.

They say...."People love God all over the world, he goes by many names....but no matter the name...God Loves us all the same!"

Edited to add- When the christian here come to speak to me about what it is that we believe I often make it this simple for them as they do not understand it many times and become upset if you get deeper.. But I know to get deeper if after this statement they then ask..."Then why not let your children worship jesus if we are all the same???"

Then I unfortunately have to get deeper...and this almost always causes deeply disturbed christian who either comes away with a feeling i am crazy, or sometimes they have the feeling i am very holy...(I have been called illuminati many times...how funny is that?) it just depends on the individual. :P

[satay]

namaste shanti,


I'm trying to figure where I belong this year.

If I may, I don't see any problems in celebrating christmas even if you are a hindu. I know a lot of hindus and other non christians that celebrate the secular aspects of it i.e. wishing others seasons greetings, exchanging gifts, getting together and having fun. Just like I know a few christians that celebrate Diwali.

Most christians wrongly believe that they are celebrating birthday of jesus on Dec. 25th but according to christian scholars he was born on Jan 6th and not Dec. 25th. So, in reality even christians are having a secular celebration, they just don't know it. ;)

[Jainarayan]

according to christian scholars he was born on Jan 6th and not Dec. 25th.

Actually, he was probably born in the spring. The line in Matthew says the shepherds were watching their flocks by night. Spring is the lambing season, when the shepherds would have been particularly vigilant for the lambs' protection against predators.

The Jan. 6th thing has two sources: the difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendars, and the arrival of the Magi.

Btw, I hate Christmas. It's a pain in the butt with all the "have to do this"... "have to buy that"... "gimme gimme, I want want want". I hate the whole affair. :mad: So I don't do it.

[satay]

namaste,

Well, I don't hate the actual season but hate it when the bills come and I have to pay them!




Btw, I hate Christmas. It's a pain in the butt with all the "have to do this"... "have to buy that"... "gimme gimme, I want want want". I hate the whole affair. :mad: So I don't do it.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: This year I'm gonna buy me a BB gun and go about shootin them there fancy lites out. That and drive the '67 Ford pick-me-up all over those cutesy wutesy lawn ornaments. Feelin' a need to gets back to my ornery redneck past. That otter make TBTL happier.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jainarayan]

namaste,

Well, I don't hate the actual season but hate it when the bills come and I have to pay them!

Well, that's what you get for shopping! :p Though if you have kids, there's no way around it.

I like seeing the lights and decorations on houses, as long as someone else does it. Years ago I enjoyed decorating but in the past 10-12 years or so, I've come to dislike it. I avoid the shopping malls at all costs during that time of year. Because I like lights I think they should be kept up for the duration of the winter, to dispel the darkness and cold feeling, whatever one's faith.

[Jainarayan]

Vannakkam: This year I'm gonna buy me a BB gun and go about shootin them there fancy lites out. That and drive the '67 Ford pick-me-up all over those cutesy wutesy lawn ornaments. Feelin' a need to gets back to my ornery redneck past. That otter make TBTL happier.

Aum Namasivaya

Go for the lawn ornaments that inflate. :D

[satay]

I love ford pick-ups. gonna buy me one of those one day.

BTW that sounds like a lot of fun.


Vannakkam: This year I'm gonna buy me a BB gun and go about shootin them there fancy lites out. That and drive the '67 Ford pick-me-up all over those cutesy wutesy lawn ornaments. Feelin' a need to gets back to my ornery redneck past. That otter make TBTL happier.

Aum Namasivaya

[rainbowlotus]

I have been pondering this question myself. Since I am not on my own yet I do celebrate Christmas. Even though it's not a part of my religion I enjoy the closeness I feel with my family during this time period.

[Eastern Mind]

BTW that sounds like a lot of fun.

Vannakkam: Mebbe for the officers doin' the arrrestin'

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

pshhhh

You Northern fellas sure make a girl glad she's down south of ya'll.

I would hate to meet you one late night out on the lawn while I am meditating on our rock wall by the huge row of 3 ft tall, brightly lit candy canes.:p

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Just where is Kentucky anyway? Somewhere by Mexico? (peeking out of igloo looking)

Hey I get to do the first bit of snowblowing at the temple tonight. Boss gets to go inside, stay warm, and worship ... there's a homa fer sumthin er uther. Hopefully the little John Deere machine is up to it.

Aum Namasivaya

[NayaSurya]

ahh so you did get snow. I had some snow flakes last week when it was 29 outside for a few days...but...

Today was 75 and beautifully windy!

Mexico indeed!

We were all barefoot and in shorts...again!:D

*puts lotion on the sunburn*

[Divine Kala]

I have celebrated Christmas pretty much my entire life but it has never been about the birth of Jesus. It was always about Santa and getting together with family.

Now, even though I identify myself as Hindu, I still celebrate Christmas. This year I will be flying interstate to visit my mother because last year I spent Christmas in my new home and she wants me there for Christmas. It may be a little hard on the stepfather, he likes steaks and I refuse to eat beef but I'm sure he'll get over it!

I just have to figure out some good presents for them! Plus presents for my friends in my new home!

[Friend from the West]

Namaste,

With all due respect to my redneck friends (in New Jersey and Canada?), I loved NayaSurya's response. I am still smiling.

I reside in very Baptist dominated, fundamentlist area. In ways it is challenging during this time, but in ways it helps. The music can be bothersome, but not so much anymore.

I too love time with family when everyone seems hit by once a year spirit that we wish for all the time, if they would just search what is there.
I love the lights. I love the lights. Festivals for me are mainly enjoyed in private, or lived vicariously through postings from you each on forum. Where I live, from now until a little after January, are lights and more lights. I run three places where lights are prominent. If I run on streets, are people's lights. It is a joyous time for me in this regard. I have never been to towns in India with that particular person residing nor in Temple (yet), but for one very brief moment of time during this season, usually on Christmas Eve, there is a feeling that comes from the town, that makes me "strong". I will not go to a church, nor exchange certain cards, but I will enjoy the season and celebrate it. For me, it is as close as get to having company in what I get to enjoy all the time.

Jai Hanuman!!!

FFTW

[radharaman]

I just wish that westerners also would celebrate christmas... not shoppingmas..... Jesus was a great teacher and as good as any that have been produced in India. All great masters such as Ramakrishna, Gandhi, Yogananda, Sathya Sai etc have venerated Christ.

[shantiseeker]

You are where you belong, Beloved Portion.

Make the world you live in whatever you wish. Carve it out and make it your own.

In our world/home, we put a tree up each year and cover it in snow men and snow flakes. Our home shines the brightest!

From October/November for Diwali/Halloween all the way to Shivaratri/Valentines day (I find it wonderful how many american holidays line right up with the best of SD holidays) Our home remains lit for all of these holidays it's a tower of light upon this hill.

I say Happy Holly Days to everyone I meet... Of course I do not say I feel jesus is actually a fairytale created from stories they got about Beloved Krishna and Sidharta as that would hurt their feelings.

But, as I dwell amongst these gentle sleeping folk I feel very heartened to see the compassion shown at this time of year.

Yes, it should be year round...yes...it's over the top that children recieve 10000 of dollars in gifts in other homes.

But! The underlying theme of xmas here in the u.s. is Love...and any holiday celebrating Love is a holiday for me.:p

I was glad to see jesus removed from the celebrations and the Beloved Being known as Santa brough to the center...as Santa loves every child...I love the pictures of him holding hands with children from all over the world. That's what I hope for us all...

Santa is more of a portion of Beloved than anything else in this country.

Santa gets prayers, mantras in every american home sing about him...and even men dress as him for children to come see.

Idol of santa is placed all over home for others to adore.

Children write letters of Love to him.

Food offering is left for him....then parent take up offering and eat it later.

This, is a primary step to SD...and I feel a very good one!

I will say though, that the children here have also been very well taught about SD and Beloved. They understand we do not celebrate christmas, but Holly Days. This started very early as so they would not become confused with this huge difference. Even my 7 year old twins can explain this if they are pressed upon our beliefs.

They say...."People love God all over the world, he goes by many names....but no matter the name...God Loves us all the same!"

Edited to add- When the christian here come to speak to me about what it is that we believe I often make it this simple for them as they do not understand it many times and become upset if you get deeper.. But I know to get deeper if after this statement they then ask..."Then why not let your children worship jesus if we are all the same???"

Then I unfortunately have to get deeper...and this almost always causes deeply disturbed christian who either comes away with a feeling i am crazy, or sometimes they have the feeling i am very holy...(I have been called illuminati many times...how funny is that?) it just depends on the individual. :P

Carve out my portion-that's a good way of viewing it, as well as viewing the Santa figure as love. That's the part that I find just fine, although IMHO kids here are just taught to view Christmas as a self-centered time to be given all the toys they want. Some of the Christian fundamentalists I have known do not allow Santa to be incorporated and tell their kids he's not "real" but to not spoil it for the other kids, but they still open up presents, etc. But they still put up a tree which I wanted to just say is really not a Christian symbol, but I never enter debates with the Fundamentalists-it's not worth it. But they just can't see Santa as a benevolent figure, and when I look at it this way-thanks, I can enjoy going through this season a little more, while continuing to just ignore everyone else's mayhem ways.

[shantiseeker]

namaste shanti,



If I may, I don't see any problems in celebrating christmas even if you are a hindu. I know a lot of hindus and other non christians that celebrate the secular aspects of it i.e. wishing others seasons greetings, exchanging gifts, getting together and having fun. Just like I know a few christians that celebrate Diwali.

Most christians wrongly believe that they are celebrating birthday of jesus on Dec. 25th but according to christian scholars he was born on Jan 6th and not Dec. 25th. So, in reality even christians are having a secular celebration, they just don't know it. ;)

I love it. They totally forget that part. I have known since childhood that 12/25 was not at all when Jesus was supposedly born. I heard TBTL's take too-somewhere around the spring being more likely. But LOL, agreed-the 12/25 celebration day is indeed a secular thing. It's especially secular with how twice as commercialized as ever it is. Every year I see Xmas items hit the stores earlier. One radio station here turns all their music to all Xmas for a whole month until 12/26. I listen to my usual stations the whole time (I have Satellite radio anyway), and if an Xmas song by a pop artist sneaks in, I switch it! I just have zero interest in listening to it.

[Jainarayan]

Vannakkam: Mebbe for the officers doin' the arrrestin'

Aum Namasivaya

Don't get caught! Geez... do I have to think of everything!? :D

[Jainarayan]

Namaste,

With all due respect to my redneck friends (in New Jersey

Pineys, guidos and clam-diggers. :D

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: In all honesty, I just ignore Christmas. Boss partakes in Pancha Ganapati, a Hindu festival designed to replace Christmas for Hindus, but I'm not that much into that either. The music goes in one ear and out the other. Usually on the day itself, I go to temple, as it is a significant day in the history of this temple, being the anniversary of the Balastapanam ceremony ... the arrival of Ganesha to His new home on the edge of the ravine. We will get together with family a bit some day in the season, but not much. Small gift exchanges may or may not occur. I don't put up lights at all. Depends who's around, and what the kids significant others are all up to with their families.

But I don't find it annoying either, in the spirit of tolerance, let them be.

Aum Namasivaya

[kallol]

My submission :

The festivals are the services towards the goodness or Godliness. I cannot say that it is limited only to India or Hinduism. God is one and different religions celebrate in different ways.

That way serving in different ways and taking part in celebrating together only enhances our religion capability to embrace all cultures which elevates the mind.

I, personally feel, that any opportunity to show my love for God and His creation should not be discarded.

[shantiseeker]

My submission :

The festivals are the services towards the goodness or Godliness. I cannot say that it is limited only to India or Hinduism. God is one and different religions celebrate in different ways.

That way serving in different ways and taking part in celebrating together only enhances our religion capability to embrace all cultures which elevates the mind.

I, personally feel, that any opportunity to show my love for God and His creation should not be discarded.

That's a good point. Although I don't consider Christmas the way it is celebrated in the US as particularly religious, but for people to be happy together is a fine default experience, although I just have a hard time with the lunacy and stress that goes into this. I removed myself from it with my own extended family-it had gotten to a point of just "going through the motions", and I'm just not terribly close to them, so about 3 years ago I decided I wasn't going to get all bent anymore. It's always been a going through the motions deal with them, but it got even worse, so now if someone wants to drop by on Christmas Day, sure, come on over, but I won't go to any "officially designated" Christmas Eve dinner that used to get held, as it's meaningless, and I'm not interested in being fake. I'm not rude, but I just won't participate. But for people spreading cheer-no problem. I just wish people didn't think the Xmas holiday season is the "only" time.
But any religion that legitimately wants good for people, I respect, and the historic account of Jesus is that of a good man who didn't turn a blind eye to anyone, but who would also be appalled if people were all stressed over lights and gift giving, shopping, competitions to take off work, etc that are over a holiday in his name.

[sanjaya]

Glad to see we're going green by recycling the old Christmas thread.

About Christmas...I don't personally see any problem here. My family has always celebrated Christmas to some extent or another even though we're Hindus. In fact, I'm pretty sure my parents used to celebrate Christmas even before they moved here from India. Christmas is an effectively secular holiday, much like Thanksgiving or the 4th of July (for us Americans anyway). Honestly, until I was a teenager I didn't even know it was supposed to be about the birth of Jesus. We have, of course, never really been into the gift giving thing. My parents used to buy us kids a few gifts when we were younger, but we never were expected to return the favor. Now days nobody buys anybody gifts, though we do have a pretty cool tree with lights and stuff.

Every year I come home, hang out with family, set up the tree, and laugh at the conservative evangelicals who mistakenly think that forcing Christmas down Hindus' throats will get us to convert to Christianity. Good will indeed. :)

[Mana]

Namaste All

I'm wondering if the whole Father Christmas story, the "santa cause", might be a bit of a nod towards Hinduism; just a hunch mind you!

Anyhow anyone who rides a chariot led by deer, across the night sky gets my respect!!!

Naturally, all his gifts are hand made.

And Christmas falls at the winter solstices so If you offer devotion to Suyra that is surely a time worth celebrating!

HoHoHo

praNAma

mana

[Jainarayan]

And Christmas falls at the winter solstices so If you offer devotion to Suyra that is surely a time worth celebrating!

The very reason that the time of the winter solstice was chosen by the early church was to stamp out the indigenous (I don't like the word 'pagan') beliefs in Sol Invictus, the Victorious Sun, as the solstice marks the beginning of longer hours of daylight. So I agree that it would be good time to especially honor Surya, not only for His beneficence, but as a tribute to those who honored Him and were persecuted for it.


HoHoHo


Greeeen Giant! I'm sorry... I had to. :D

[Divine Kala]

Namaste

Now this has always been something that has bothered me. I live in the southern hemisphere so Christmas is in the middle of summer. While people in the N. hemisphere who want to get back to the roots of the winter solstice and welcome in the sun it's wonderful. But what about us southerners? For us Christmas marks the shortening of days instead of the lengthening.

Who should I offer my oblations to?

[satay]

namaste,



Who should I offer my oblations to?

Shiva! the rightful enjoyer of all oblations.

[Divine Kala]

I was thinking it would likely be Shiva! I shall offer my prayers and oblations to Shiva and Kali then. I am sure they will enjoy the festivities.

[anisha_astrologer]

namaste shanti,



If I may, I don't see any problems in celebrating christmas even if you are a hindu. I know a lot of hindus and other non christians that celebrate the secular aspects of it i.e. wishing others seasons greetings, exchanging gifts, getting together and having fun. Just like I know a few christians that celebrate Diwali.

Most christians wrongly believe that they are celebrating birthday of jesus on Dec. 25th but according to christian scholars he was born on Jan 6th and not Dec. 25th. So, in reality even christians are having a secular celebration, they just don't know it. ;)
i don't see any problem in celebrating christmas. i personally feel that hinduism teaches solidarity with every creature on earth, so there is no problem in joining in the celebrations of a fellow human being.:)

[shantiseeker]

Agreed! All the other secular days are observed too, and in my case, due to the few close people in my life, Christmas is there. Doesn't mean I can't wait for the season to be over! I have the kind of job where life still goes on, but outside entities that I have to deal with are closed, or have a skeleton crew making my job a challenge because MY work obligations can't be put on "hold", but I can't reach half the people I need, so it pushes back things for me. Just two days this week of places being closed for Thanksgiving is a pain, so it's already started for me. And I'm working Thanksgiving, because again, my job requirements don't stop!

[Eastern Mind]

Agreed! All the other secular days are observed too, and in my case, due to the few close people in my life, Christmas is there. Doesn't mean I can't wait for the season to be over! I have the kind of job where life still goes on, but outside entities that I have to deal with are closed, or have a skeleton crew making my job a challenge because MY work obligations can't be put on "hold", but I can't reach half the people I need, so it pushes back things for me. Just two days this week of places being closed for Thanksgiving is a pain, so it's already started for me. And I'm working Thanksgiving, because again, my job requirements don't stop!

Vannakkam shantiseeker: I'm glad you brought up jobs and holidays. Certainly the two don't always mix. Lots of people in necessary positions have to put things aside. I see no way around it. Certainly all the nurses, firefighters, essential maintenance guys, police, can't just go on a one day strike.

But the other thing that could be changed is the discriminatory factor of religious minorities not getting their traditional days off. That could be remedied by collective bargaining, allowing 2 days a year off for 'religious holidays'.

Have a 'find peace amidst chaos' week there.

Aum Namasivaya

[sm78]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksOCE5S_Bec

[BryonMorrigan]

Well, since the actual celebration on December 25th comes from the Roman Dies Natalis Soli Invicti, (Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun - Sol Invictus), which is a Romanization of the Persian deity Mithras...who is known in the Rgveda as Mitra...

...I'd say, we should be asking the Christians whether they can celebrate "Christmas." LOL.

For the record, Mithraism (the worship of Mithras/Sol Invictus) was the most popular religion in the Roman Empire at the time that Christianity was made the official state religion. Constantine I himself was a devotee of Mithras up until his conversion...which is why he "adopted" the popular Mithraic festival for "Christmas." Also, take a look at Mithraic symbolism and ritual. If you're wondering where the Catholic Church got all of their ritual and symbolism from...look no further.

Oh yeah, and I made a bumper sticker (http://www.cafepress.com/hellenicpolytheism.573194632).