No Hell for Hindus - Part II

[RamaRaksha]

I do honestly believe that with Karma and Rebirth, the concept of Hell makes no sense. Hell is a ugly concept, God becomes a torturer and abuser, this is unbecoming of God. My Rama does not torture people.

Let's ask ourselves what happens to us when we die, we leave the physical body behind do we not? Only our Atma is left to be reborn. The Atma as the Gita tells us cannot be burned by fire, nor moved by the wind, nor be engulfed by water! In fact, the Atma cannot be harmed in any way! So then I ask, where does the concept of hell come in? How can one torture something that cannot be harmed?

Let's leave the concept of a immature, torture God to Abrahamic religions. Let's embrace the concept of Karma and Rebirth and leave Hell well enough alone. God truly becomes a teacher imparting knowledge to her students without resorting to violence and torture.

[bhaktajan]

I have had a most recent realisation:

Those who are of the mind set of a monist [vs 'monotheist'] ---are living a life of comfort.

The trevails of life actually informs the philosopher toward a mind set of 'a grander' purpose of life than just 'my salvation' or 'my elevation in the stratums of life'.

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Born in a log cabin --to rise to the heights of civil service work --to free enslaved millions --to plant the banner of liberty & freedom --to then be assasinated for your sacrifices . . . Abe lincoln/Gandhi etc . . . such is the "Irony" of the material conditions of "Birth-after-birth"

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The first Nobel Truth:
"Life is a state of suffering" --where souls take re-birth predicated [for the 99.9% majority of souls] predicated on the most mundane urgings (ie: Eat, sleep, mate & defend) ---just to start with a blank-slate [so-to-speak] and do it all over again ---"chewing the curd, yet again and agian"

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There are so-many many many more individuals spread out across the Planet earth who are living a standard-of-life far below what the Mordern West lives ---enlightenment is not acheived simply by the blase and the Bourgeoisie stratum of living.

There are hellish domains that many a 'Gated-Community' will feverishly seperate themselves from generation after generation ---all within a stone's throw away from each other in the same neiborhoods of civil life.

[RamaRaksha]

"The first Nobel Truth:
"Life is a state of suffering" --where souls take re-birth predicated [for the 99.9% majority of souls] predicated on the most mundane urgings (ie: Eat, sleep, mate & defend) ---just to start with a blank-slate [so-to-speak] and do it all over again ---"chewing the curd, yet again and agian"

You can put a spin on anything any way you want. Gandhiji was mocked by the British. Rebirth and Karma can be mocked too. One christian saw a male sexual organ in Ganesha's trunk. When one's mind is in the gutter, that's all they see.

To me the Gift of Life is the greatest Gift of all. It's not about being born, but what one does with it that is important. One can be born, do drugs and drink and kill themselves, a useless life. Or one can aspire to be a Gandhi or Lincoln.

It works with nations too. Nigeria has a nice weather, lots of oil, can grow its own food, but is dirt poor. Japan is cold, no oil, needs to import food, yet is one of the richest nations in the world.

It is not how you start, it is how you finish that is important. That is the essense of Karma. Life gives you that chance. The Gift of Life - the Greatest Gift of all. In this life as I enter old age, i have many regrets. The lost love, the lost opportunities, the missed chances. But I, as a Hindu, will get another chance - i get to be reborn and start again. Maybe next time I will get better at this.

Sad to see that christians and muslims get only one shot at this - they are one-and-done! And then maybe if their God is angry, eternal torture! What a cruel, abusive God!

[Eastern Mind]

Sad to see that christians and muslims get only one shot at this - they are one-and-done! And then maybe if their God is angry, eternal torture! What a cruel, abusive God!

Namaste Ramaraksha:

In this statement, do you believe it literally, or are you just stating their belief? Or is it that you think they will also be reborn, but they don't know it?
The latter is what I believe. Moksha is for all souls.

Aum Namasivaya

[RamaRaksha]

I am stating their belief. When christians shouted at me that i am going to hell because i was not christian, i was pretty upset. How dare these people impose their religion on me?

In return, i believe that i must not impose hinduism on them. These people believe that there is only one life, they either get eternal hell or heaven. They are welcome to them. Personally i am not interested in a flesh-happy heaven. I would rather work my way towards Moksha, joyfully going thru several lives.

[zensati]

I definetly beleive in the possibility of rebirth. There is no scientific evidence to disprove this philosophy. However I also beleive in seizing the moment. and making the most of each present moment.

[Eastern Mind]

Zensati. Welcome to the forums. Believing in the possibility of something is somewhat different that believing in something. I have come to believe in rebirth, not just it's possibility. But doubt is okay too.

Aum Namasivaya

[zensati]

Zensati. Welcome to the forums. Believing in the possibility of something is somewhat different that believing in something. I have come to believe in rebirth, not just it's possibility. But doubt is okay too.

Aum Namasivaya

Thankyou. I am very glad to have discovered this forum, I would love to have complete faith in rebirth, However what lies beyond death is a complete mystery to me. Im sure you and many others have greater realisation of death and rebirth.

Shri prabhupada said the doubting soul knows no happiness in this life or in the next life. I guess I am a doubting soul, but I have a questioning nature.

[RamaRaksha]

I have struggled with this issue of whether christians and muslims are reborn. Most of them like the idea of being reborn, what's not to like? But most of them have no concept of Karma or Moksha. A Hindu is not just being reborn again and again, he is working his way towards Moksha.

I have come around to the view that if Christians and Muslims believe in rebirth, it will happen to them. What we believe will happen. And those who do not believe in rebirth, they will not be reborn. So, to some, it's a one-and-done life.

[atanu]

I have struggled with this issue of whether christians and muslims are reborn. Most of them like the idea of being reborn, what's not to like? But most of them have no concept of Karma or Moksha. A Hindu is not just being reborn again and again, he is working his way towards Moksha.

I have come around to the view that if Christians and Muslims believe in rebirth, it will happen to them. What we believe will happen. And those who do not believe in rebirth, they will not be reborn. So, to some, it's a one-and-done life.

Namaste dear RR,

You note a great knowledge (the bold fonts above). What is seen to exist is true since consciousness is true. Thanks. In newspaper today I read the following:



Justice, it should be noted, in kabbalistic terminology, is compared to what other traditions call karma. That is to say, cosmic justice is the spiritual law that every action, word, or thought revervates throughout the Universe.

Rabbi David A Cooper

And in the newspaper yesterday, a Christian priest, Christopher Mendonca, wrote "Kindness and Encroachment: There's A Difference". He clearly states the problem with missionaries, who endeavour to impose their will. Shri Mendonca says "It is detrimental not to recognise one's own shortcomings and yet preach and impose on others". He states that such efforts are out of selfishness and not out of kindness.

My understanding is that the fundamental teachings are not contradictory but a great proportion of christians and muslims see the world with rajasic-tamasic goggles.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[rkpande]

However what lies beyond death is a complete mystery to me. Im sure you and many others have greater realisation of death and rebirth.


Today, I read a lab working for NASA, made a rat levitate.
When we say a yogi can levitate or do certain things which are not normal naturally, people just don't believe. Even Buddha saw all his previous births when he was enlightened.
Google for NDE, Read the American Sleeping Prophet (Kaycee Edgar) or Many Lives Many Master, or Google again on research on people who remembered their prievious lives.
Read about Videh Muktas against Jivan Muktas.
Try reading about the various Lokas described in Puranas
Sanatani, naturally believes in reincarnations and lifes after birth.

[atanu]

---- However what lies beyond death is a complete mystery to me. Im sure you and many others have greater realisation of death and rebirth.


Namaste zensati,

You may like to read Katha Upanishad, which deals mainly with this topic.

Best Wishes

Om Namah Shivaya

[zensati]

Ok thank you.. I will research this some more..

[Osu]

I have struggled with this issue of whether christians and muslims are reborn. Most of them like the idea of being reborn, what's not to like? But most of them have no concept of Karma or Moksha. A Hindu is not just being reborn again and again, he is working his way towards Moksha.

I have come around to the view that if Christians and Muslims believe in rebirth, it will happen to them. What we believe will happen. And those who do not believe in rebirth, they will not be reborn. So, to some, it's a one-and-done life.

We are not this body we are spirit soul we are living in this world but this world is not our home.
We are also not our nationality or our religion or our culture. This also is a materialistic concept and another case of false identification, what will happen will happen no matter what we identify as being, our conciousness will determine our future, truth is truth

[Eastern Mind]

Welcome, Osu, to these forums. Looking forward to your ideas adding to the multitude of ideas here.

Aum Namasivaya

[eriko]

How does it really matter if Muslims or Christians go through rebirths or not? As far as I am concerned I don't care about this at all. And then reincarnation is a very personal thing that cannot be subjected to a whole community.

And there have been instances for eg I read somewhere than in one text dealing with Judaism, they have talked about reincarnation. And then when you talk to Christians they do believe in Karma (of course in their own way; though I don't know how it fits when thay don't believe in reincarnation).

As for hell for Hindus. It is a very confusing subject. I read in the book The Laws of nature by AC Bhaktivedanta (leader of Krishna counciousness) that hell in Hindu Dharma is a place when the soul is trained for his next life. For eg if you are going to be dog (as you your punishment), they (the Gods whatever) will train you so that you have no problem leading that lifestyle.

In fact I also want to share something. My Ma met someone who had this dog who did not eat meat, would keep fast on tuesdays, visit the temple, never barked and stuff like that. Poor soul, trapped in a dog's body and he remembers his past life as a human.