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Hiwaunis
03 September 2009, 11:50 PM
Pranam,
Is there an explanation in the Vedas stating where all this water on earth came from? I know the story of 2 of the rivers being SuryaDev's daughters. Maa Ganga came down on the request of a sage.

But what about the other waters?

Namaste,

atanu
11 September 2009, 03:00 PM
Pranam,

Is there an explanation in the Vedas stating where all this water on earth came from? I know the story of 2 of the rivers being SuryaDev's daughters. Maa Ganga came down on the request of a sage.

But what about the other waters?

Namaste,

Namaste Hiwaunis,

Water is one of the five great elements among air, water, fire, earth, and ether. Water is also intermediate between all pervasive air and localised earth.

Agni Vaisvanara is the Universal God, who it is said entered into the heart of waters. Spirit of Waters, He thus is called apam napat.

Brihadarayanaka Upanishad relates arka (fire) and apah (water) in the following way:


I-ii-1: There was nothing whatsoever here in the beginning. It was covered only by Death (Hiranyagarbha), or Hunger, for hunger is death. He created the mind, thinking, ‘Let me have a mind’. He moved about worshipping (himself). As he was worshipping, water was produced. (Since he thought), ‘As I was worshipping (arkate), water sprang up’, therefore Arka (fire?) is so called. Water (or happiness) surely comes to one who knows how Arka (fire?) came to have this name of Arka.
I-ii-2: Water is Arka. What was there (like) forth on the water was solidified and became this earth. When that was produced, he was tired. While he was (thus) tired and distressed, his essence, or lustre, came forth. This was Fire.
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The creation scheme of the elements, as taught in Upanishads, is summarized in the Brahma Sutras of Badarayana:
SECTION - III

Topic-1: Origin of Space
1. Space is not (a created thing), since this is not heard of in (some of) the Upanishads.
2. But there is (a mention of the origin of space).
3. (The Upanishadic passage about creation of space has) a secondary sense, for real creation is impossible.
4. And (this is borne out) by Vedic texts.
5. And it is possible for the same word (“originated”) to have (primary and secondary senses) like the word Brahman.
6. The (Vedic) assertion (that “all things become known when the one is known”) can remain unaffected only if all the effects are non-different from Brahman; and this is confirmed by Vedic texts.
7. But (space is a product); for separateness persists wherever there is an effect, as it is seen in the world.

Topic-2: Origin of Air
8. Hereby is explained air.

Topic-3: Origin of Brahman Denied
9. But (origin) for Existence (Brahman) is impossible on account of illogicality.


Topic-4: Origin of Fire
10. Fire originates from this one (ie., air); for the Upanishad says so.


Topic-5: Origin of Water
11. Water (was born from this fire).


Topic-6: Origin of Earth
12. (The word “food” means) earth on the strength of the topic, colour and other Vedic texts.

Topic-7: Creation from God’s Deliberation
13. It is He only, who through profound meditation on each thing (created it), as is known from His indicatory marks.

Topic-8: Reverse Order of Dissolution
14. But as compared with this order of creation, the order of dissolution proceeds in a reverse way. This is logical too.
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Waters are thought of as Goddesses. Two Rig Vedic verses are cited below:




RV VII, 49
1. Ceaselessly they flow from the depths, pure, never sleeping, the Ocean their sponsor,
following the channels ordained by the Thunderer.
Now may these great divine Waters quicken me!
2. Waters may pour from heaven or run along channels dug out by men;
or flow clear and pure having the Ocean as their goal.
Now may these great divine Waters quicken me!
3. ln the midst of the Waters is moving the Lord, surveying men's truth and men's lies.
How sweet are the Waters, crystal clear and cleansing!
Now may these great divine Waters quicken me!
4. From whom King Varuna, Soma, and all the Deities drink exhilarating strength,
into whom the Universal Lord has entered,
now may these great divine Waters quicken me! RV X, 9
1. O Waters, source of happiness, pray give us vigor so that we may contemplate the great delight.
2. You like loving mothers are
who long to give to children dear. Give us of your propitious sap.
3. On your behalf we desire, O Waters,
to assist the one to whose house you send us-- you, of our life and being the source.
4. These Waters be to us for drink;
divine are they for aid and joy. May they impart to us health and strength!
5. You Waters who rule over precious things
and have supreme control of men, we beg you, give us healing balm.
6. Within the Waters, Soma has told me,
remedies exist of every sort and Agni who brings blessing to all.
7. O Waters, stored with healing balm
through which my body safe will be, come, that I long may see the sun.
8. Whatever sin is found in me,
whatever wrong I may have done, if I have lied or falsely sworn, Waters, remove it far from me.
9. Now I have come to seek the Waters.
Now we merge, mingling with the sap. Come to me, Agni, rich in milk! Come and endow me with your splendor!
---------------------------------Hope the above citations meet some of your requirements. What I get from it is how one element gives rise to another and all elemnts have the same internal Boss, as if, exemplified below:

He who is abiding in the earth, yet different
from the earth, . . .
He who is abiding in the water, yet different
from the water, . . .
He who is abiding in the wind, yet different
from the wind, . . .


Om Namah Shivaya

Hiwaunis
13 September 2009, 10:03 PM
Pranam,
Thank you. I'll have to read the post 3 or 4 times. Eventually, I'll understand (with the help of Gayatri of course).

Namaste,

atanu
14 September 2009, 01:16 AM
Thank you. I'll have to read the post 3 or 4 times. Eventually, I'll understand (with the help of Gayatri of course).

Namaste,

Namaste Hiwaunis,

Its true. Veda is as per the muddiness or clarity of the mind, which is like transparent water in undisturbed meditation.

I have seen link between Parjanya and triply flowing rivers in triple heavens. I see the link as Ganga flowing down Shiva's head. The waters are the life and the awareness.

Book 7 HYMN CI. Parjanya.

1 SPEAK forth three words, the words which light preceded, which milk this udder that produceth nectar. Quickly made manifest, the Bull hath bellowed, engendering the germ of plants, the Infant.
------
4 In him all living creatures have their being, and the three heavens with triply flowing waters. Three reservoirs that sprinkle down their treasure shed their sweet streams around him with a murmur.
---------
6 He is the Bull of all, and their impregner; he holds the life of all things fixed and moving. May this rite save me till my hundredth autumn. Preserve us evermore, ye Gods, with blessings.

Om Namah Shivaya

atanu
18 September 2009, 12:59 AM
Veda makes us aware that all that we see is reallly divine. And I have read Sataptha Brahmana, wherein, a simple sprinkling (oblation) of water with faithful prayer to wash away sins, is said to be effective instantaneously.

How wondrous. Om Namah Shivaya.

amra
18 September 2009, 03:16 AM
it is worth pondering that Ganga was a celestial river before she was asked to descend at the request of King Sagar's grandson, the reason being he wanted to perform funerary rites with Ganga water for his preceptors and Sagars sons who had been burned by a Rishi for causing insult to him by accusing him of stealing Sagars Horse for Ashvamedha.

In many other cultures a great river is associated with the Milky Way. The Milky way being the path of release from earthly bondage.

Hiwaunis
12 October 2009, 02:04 PM
it is worth pondering that Ganga was a celestial river before she was asked to descend at the request of King Sagar's grandson, the reason being he wanted to perform funerary rites with Ganga water for his preceptors and Sagars sons who had been burned by a Rishi for causing insult to him by accusing him of stealing Sagars Horse for Ashvamedha.

In many other cultures a great river is associated with the Milky Way. The Milky way being the path of release from earthly bondage.

Pranam,
I have always found the spiritual meaning of water to be very interesting, as well as confusing. Some say water = knowledge and some say light = knowledge. When I think of our Milky Way I see the lights (stars).

There was a Native American named Hiawatha (meaning the one who combs snakes from the hair) who was married to Lake Minihaha (meaning laughing waters). I am actually named after Hiawatha and have always associated Lake Minihaha with spiritual knowledge.

QUOTED FROM ATANU: Its true. Veda is as per the muddiness or clarity of the mind, which is like transparent water in undisturbed meditation.

I have seen link between Parjanya and triply flowing rivers in triple heavens. I see the link as Ganga flowing down Shiva's head. The waters are the life and the awareness.

Atanu or anyone will you please give a few explanations of the statement, "The waters are the life and the awareness"?

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

atanu
07 September 2011, 11:53 AM
Pranam,
QUOTED FROM ATANU: ---- The waters are the life and the awareness.

Atanu or anyone will you please give a few explanations of the statement, "The waters are the life and the awareness"?

Namaste,
Hiwaunis


Hi Hi

Hope you still come in. I have just found the exact reference that tells what water means.

Chandogya


VI-v-2: ‘Water, when drunk, becomes divided into three parts. What is its grossest ingredient, that becomes urine; what is the middling ingredient, that becomes blood; and what is the subtlest ingredient, that becomes Prana.
VI-v-4: ‘Hence, dear boy, mind is made up of food, Prana is made up of water, and speech is made of fire. ‘Explain it further to me, revered sir’. ‘Be it so, dear boy’, said the father.
---
VI-vi-3: ‘Dear boy, of the water that is drunk that which is the subtlest part rises upwards and that becomes Prana.

Ganeshprasad
10 September 2011, 05:46 AM
Pranam Atanu ji
nice to see you back


Hi Hi

Hope you still come in. I have just found the exact reference that tells what water means.

Chandogya


VI-v-2: ‘Water, when drunk, becomes divided into three parts. What is its grossest ingredient, that becomes urine; what is the middling ingredient, that becomes blood; and what is the subtlest ingredient, that becomes Prana.
VI-v-4: ‘Hence, dear boy, mind is made up of food, Prana is made up of water, and speech is made of fire. ‘Explain it further to me, revered sir’. ‘Be it so, dear boy’, said the father.
---
VI-vi-3: ‘Dear boy, of the water that is drunk that which is the subtlest part rises upwards and that becomes Prana.




I find this interesting, we know blood is 75% percent(someone probably tell me it is more) water, it becoming Prana is intriguing, Pran Yayu we breath and water we drink the subtlest part which become Prana what is the connection?
never realized same process that happens in the outer world take place in the inner world. the saying Jo pindMa Wo BrahmandMa i should not be surprised.

Jai Shree Krishna

saidevo
10 September 2011, 08:21 AM
namaste Atanu, GP and others.

Atanu, welcome, hope you will stay on. I found an interesting talk about the connections between the panchabhUtas and our senses, here:
http://www.sssbpt.info/ssspeaks/volume23/sss23-18.pdf