PDA

View Full Version : Spiritual ego.



Eastern Mind
12 September 2009, 07:43 AM
Aum. Prostrations to Vinayaka, Lord of Obstacles.

I'm starting this thread in hopes of gaining insight on how to help myself, and perhaps others to self-observe when we are acting with ego, rather than confidence, or non-attachment. I've been accused (falsely or spot-on, yet to be determined) of having one.

A couple of quotes from my Guru on it.

"There is no greater barrier on the path than the spiritual ego."
And in passing about a fellow soul. "Oh, he's so proud of his humility."

So what are the signs that tell you that you are acting egotistically versus just confidently, or with a refined intellect?

Here's an example. A man walks into a temple. He prostrates full out South Indian style in front of God for a full minute.

One person observing is thinking, " Wow, such devotion, such sincerity of worship. He must be a wonderful family man."

Another person is thinking. "What a show-off! Every time he comes here, he does that. He thinks he's the greatest devotee ever! Betcha he goes home and beats his wife and kids."

So, whats the deal here?

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
12 September 2009, 12:07 PM
"There is no greater barrier on the path than the spiritual ego." ---------------So, whats the deal here?
Aum Namasivaya

Namaste EM,

I feel that the term 'spiritual ego' is a misnomer. Ego is spiritual only. Has anyone seen material ego? Ego is an idea made of ignorance, which is diametrically opposite of truth. When ego is known as ignorance, actions flow automatically, whether harsh or sweet, whether creative or destructive -- does not matter.




Katha Upanishad


2-I-9. On that from which the sun rises and in which it sets, are fixed all the gods. None ever goes beyond that. This verily is that (thou seekest).
2-I-10. What indeed is here is there; what is there is here again. Whoso here sees as though different, passes from death to death.
2-I-11. By mind alone is this attainable; there is no difference here whatsoever. Whoso here sees as though different, passes from death to death.
2-I-12. The Purusha, of the size of a thumb, dwells in the body. (Realizing Him as) the Lord of the past and the future, one does not (henceforward) want to protect oneself. This verily is that (thou seekest).
2-I-13. The Purusha of the size of a thumb is like a smokeless flame and is the Lord of the past and the future. He certainly exists now and shall certainly exist tomorrow. This verily is that (thou seekest).
2-I-14. As rain-water fallen on a mountain ridge runs down the rocks, so does one seeing the selves differently run after them alone.
2-I-15. As pure water poured into pure water remains the same only, so does the Self of the thinker who knows thus become, O Gautama.
---
2-II-8. This Purusha who is awake when all are asleep, creating all things cherished, is certainly pure; that is Brahman; that is called the Immortal. All worlds are strung on that; none passes beyond that. This verily is that (thou seekest).
2-II-9. Just as fire, though one, having entered the world, assumes a separate form in respect of every form, so does the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, assume a form in respect of every form, and is outside it.
2-II-10. Just as wind, though one, having entered the world, assumes a separate form in respect of each form, so does the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, assumes a form in respect of every form and is outside it.
2-II-11. Just as the sun, which is the eye of the entire world, is not tainted by the external impurities seen by the eyes, so also, the in-dwelling Self of all beings, though one, is not tainted by the sorrows of the world, It being external.
2-II-12. Eternal happiness belongs to the intelligent – not to others – who realize in their hearts Him who is one, the controller and the in-dwelling Self of all beings, and who makes the one form manifold.
2-II-13. Whoso among the intelligent realize the Self in the (inner space of the) heart as the eternal among the ephemeral, the consciousness among the conscious, who, though one, dispenses the desired objects to many, to them belongs eternal peace, not to others.


Since you invited opinions, here is mine. Ego only sees ego; and judges the actions, bemoans the past and worries about the future. The Jnani, it is said, exists amidst actions, knowing them to be play of Gunas. The Self is all there is -- where the ego from?

Om Namah Shivaya

devotee
13 September 2009, 12:10 AM
Namaste EM,

I have a little difficulty in understanding this term, "Spiritual Ego". Do you mean having an inflated ego with the idea, "I am more spiritual than others" ?

OM

kd gupta
13 September 2009, 12:55 AM
Aum. Prostrations to Vinayaka, Lord of Obstacles, if this is the submission, it is not ego then it is easygo always .
If patient needs 1mg. why to give him 100mg.
We are thankful to those great Swamyjis who have added no. to our religion .
Ramcharitmanas’s two lines suffice the purpose, why to go for shruti…

Subh aru asubh karam anuhari,ish det phal hriday vichari.
Karay jo karam pau phal soi,nigam neeti asi kah sab koi..

World needs disciple and not the guru this time.

proudhindu
13 September 2009, 01:48 AM
Namaste EM,

I have a little difficulty in understanding this term, "Spiritual Ego". Do you mean having an inflated ego with the idea, "I am more spiritual than others" ?

OM

Pranaam Devotee ji,

I think EM was being carefull in his choice of Words :) .But , i think he would not disagree with what you mentioned.Inflated ego clouds judgement and drives one away from spirituality.

amra
13 September 2009, 03:38 AM
This is a very interesting thing you have raised. Acting in any way whether devotionally or egotistically, is carried out by the Ego. The ego allows us to act in the sub-lunar world. To act spiritually is the same as acting obnoxiously. The important distinction, that transcends action, is ego-identification. Identified with your bodily needs while engaged in the act of worshipping God, is in reality worship of the body. Or on the other hand, identifying the ego with a higher force symbolised and corporealised as a God while acting in a obnoxious or material way is in reality higher worship.

Sankhya has been useful for me in understanding the ego. Ahamkara in Sankhya i view as a sort of slider that can move up and down the tattvas, depending on what you identify with. But this slider is not a fixed point but a beam that widens as you ascend, so that the higher you go the lower and deeper you see.

So it is actually necessesary to become in the end a supreme egotist, as God is the BIG "I"

Eastern Mind
13 September 2009, 08:08 AM
Namaste EM,

I have a little difficulty in understanding this term, "Spiritual Ego". Do you mean having an inflated ego with the idea, "I am more spiritual than others" ?

OM

Yes, this is what I meant. I would say 'athletic ego' for an athlete who has great skills, but constantly brags about them. Or 'intellectual ego' for a person who knows a lot of big words and loves to toss them about just to prove he's 'smarter' than the rest of us.

Below the stage or experience of Self-realisation, we all have ego. But my question had to do with how we can understand (in practical ways, simple words, not through reading complicated scripture) when we ourselves are acting out of ego rather than a true commitment to seva. This within the realms of character development to further ourselves along the true path.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
13 September 2009, 12:30 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté EM,

I have very little to offer on this subject because ego ( from my observation) is so fleeting. Sometimes its a freind, other times a foe.
I have found by aging, this has contributed to dampening the effects of ego; and I have seen this in others.

I have been applying quote two below the best I can without straining - yet that too is a pickle, as you try = effort = doing, and the instuction is to expect nothing, perfectly.


Spiritual practices help us move from identifying with the ego to identifying with the soul. Old age does that for you too. It spiritualizes people naturally - baba rām das

The 'skill' in spiritual practice is to expect nothing - perfectly nothing. You will then see what the ego is when it gets in the way. - a good friend

Yet I have waivered from the question you have posted and hope I have not derailed any forward progress on this matter.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
13 September 2009, 01:47 PM
Namaste Yajvan:

Actually those are two very reassuring quotes. Sometimes the smallest things turn out best. I too have observed ego lessening with age. Reminds me of the 'young bucks full of p... and vinegar' saying. Wisdom, yes.

Nandri

Aum namasivaya

yajvan
13 September 2009, 03:22 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Something I have been thinking about all this week that is germane to this string - let me see what you think of this.

The Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (3rd valli, 8th śloka )
two translations

I have realized this Great Being who shines effulgent like the sun beyond all darkness.
One passes beyond death only on realizing Him. There is no other way of escape from the circle of births and deaths.
I know this mighty Being (Puruṣa) who shines effulgent like the sun beyond darkness. One passes beyond death
only by knowing Him. There is no other road for obtaining liberation.Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (3rd valli, 21st śloka )
two translations

I know this undecaying primeval Immanent Self of all, who is omnipresent because of His all-pervasiveness,
and whom the expounders of Brahman declare to be eternally free from birth.
I know this undecaying, ancient, the soul of all who is omnipresent on account of His all pervading nature and whom the knowers of Brahman declare to be free from birth whom the knowers of Brahman proclaim to be eternal.The ṛṣi is Śvetāśvatara, from whom this Upaniṣad is named. So, what do we think of this muni's words? Is it bragging? Being bold or stating his accomplishment?

What is of great interest to me, ṛṣi Śvetāśvatara goes on to describe this Being - he rounds-out his personal experience with in-depth knowledge. What more can we do then respect his clarity of mind, and his personal spiritual experience - an exponent of Reality - and learn from him, be in his air.

Another example
We find this same confidence in the Bṛhadaraṇyaka Upaniṣad, when King Janaka says 'he who is thoroughly proficient in the veda's among you may take these cows' . That is, the King offers 1,000 cows, each having gold, 1/3 ounce or one pada in those days, carried on their horns for this wisdom to be discussed.

Without hesitancy the sage Yajñavalkya tells his śiṣya to gather-up the herd of cows and take them home, end of discussion. The other brāhmaṇa-s took issue with this action ( i.e. hey , not so fast !) , and so begins this kāṇḍa ( or section, appropriately called the Yajñavalkya kāṇḍa ) of questioning this great sage. He outshines all the others in his clarity, insight, personal knowledge of the Infinite i.e. he walks the talk.

This is where I rejoice - if there are those among us that 'know this mighty Being (Puruṣa)' stepping forth and proclaiming this is a boon to us all , ego is not in the formula as I see it.

Bring this knowledge, experience, insight to the forefront and teach those (śiṣya) that are desirous of this knowledge ( mumukṣu) to know and learn in a meaningful way. It will take minutes for those listening to know the ego is not at work via sincerity, clarity and the sattva that comes through this Realized Soul.

If one wishes not to do this , that too is fine, and their proclamation can be that of the infinite silence of Brahman. But (IMHO) you cannot have it both ways. Proclaiming this level of Being as an every day experience, but not assisting others in a meaningful way is having the value of diamonds in your hands, but selling it at the price of spinich.

Those are my views, I could be wrong.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
13 September 2009, 04:31 PM
Namaste;

lol ... You got to another point I was eventually going to make, but you have made before I did.

Yes, what about the great souls? They have come in many shapes, languages, ways of teaching, and sizes.

Each one that has entered this plane of existence one last time has had the observer or listener be of two varieties: those that think He/She is realised divinity manifest, and those that think He/She is on one huge ego trip. lol Perhaps 3 varieties, those that don't care either way.

And it is my opinion that there are indeed both kinds as well, which makes it even more confusing.

All Gurus have their detractors. Some more than others. My understanding is that each has a svadharma within that realm. Some are here to teach and share, others come to help as silent seers in unseen psychic ways.

Then there are ceremonies to the Gurus, the prostrating to, the carrying in pallaquins, the fear of. All these seem ironic when the Soul is said to be ego-free. So yes, dear Yajvan, its quite the dance.

My own Guru instructed to respect all Gurus within Hinduism you might encounter, and not delve into any questions of authenticity. This is what I try to do, although I admit with this ego-bound mind of mine, at times it is difficult.

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
14 September 2009, 12:48 AM
Namaste EM and Yajvan Ji,

The story about Yajnvalkya is close to heart. When, I relate it to my friends, they infer from my animated actions etc. "You must be a Yajnavalkya fan?".

I believe that Ego only sees Ego. From this perspective, I cited the verses of Katha Upanishad to indicate that what we call ego is ignorance only. One who is above the ignorance will not see ego.


Below the stage or experience of Self-realisation, we all have ego. But my question had to do with how we can understand (in practical ways, simple words, not through reading complicated scripture) when we ourselves are acting out of ego rather than a true commitment to seva. This within the realms of character development to further ourselves along the true path.
The following talk between a devotee and guru may clarify:

Devotee: Bhagwan, what is the way out of ignorance?
Guru: Self Realisation
D: What is the greatest impediment to Self Realisation?
Guru: Ignorance of Self.
D: Well, that seems to me to be an endless loop.
-----
About the practical aspect of knowing/judging when one has acted while being in the grip of ignorance, I can say that fear, irritation, anger, restlessness, jealousy and guilt are all symptoms. Also, it must be futile to see ego elsewhere and not see it in oneself. This itself may be the biggest ego trip.



All Gurus have their detractors. Some more than others. My understanding is that each has a svadharma within that realm. Some are here to teach and share, others come to help as silent seers in unseen psychic ways.

Dear EM,

I can only hope that this note is not the result of my questioning 'Spiritual Ego' term? It was not questioning the guru but it was to subject the term to a bit of analysis to get the true meaning and also to highlight that Ego is also spirit like.


Then there are ceremonies to the Gurus, the prostrating to, the carrying in pallaquins, the fear of. All these seem ironic when the Soul is said to be ego-free. So yes, dear Yajvan, its quite the dance.

The individual soul is not free. Its awareness is restricted. If it was same as the Atman, then it would be either of continous awareness or of continuous darkness (as in sleep).

It is just a wave on the ocean, awareness waxing and waning. But the crux is that the awareness is centered in Atman and not in the individual soul. The awareness of "I" is of that which is aware. Soul (called Pradhana in scripture) is not aware on its own. How easy it is to live without the falsity of the "I", conceit, knowing that existence is one big ocean, wherein the "I" is in the heart of it.


Om Namah Shivaya

bhaktajan
14 September 2009, 10:15 AM
An accompaning fact to "Intelligence in the mode of Sattva-guna" is "High Self-Esteem".

Let me remind everyone, "Raja-yoga" is taught by Yoga-Teachers of Rajas.

Humility is part of sacrifice ---sacrifice means denying the interest of the senses (and thus, ego too).

Spiritual ego is a subject matter beyond Advaitist by dint of the apex of their philosophical maxims [Conceit is a petty mundane behavior] ---Spiritual ego is the recognition that all material ambitions are not worthy of investing your personal time and energy to. This will alienate superfulous acquaintances and relatives and mates.

yajvan
14 September 2009, 01:55 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

bhaktajan offers the following:


Humility is part of sacrifice ---sacrifice means denying the interest of the senses (and thus, ego too).

If I may, I'd like to offer a different point of view on this matter, let me share it with the HDF reader.
Yes, I agree humility is part of sacrifice - this comes quite naturally, but let me take it one step further.

Sacrifice = yajña

yajña is an act of worship or devotion , offering , oblation;
At times, yajña as a noun is a form of viṣṇu .
yajña is rooted in yaj यज्. This yaj is to offer, grantWe also find this yaj in one's meditational sādhana. When one transcends all of the relative field of existence then one experiences silence, balance, perfect rest, some wish to call this samādhi ( others may wish to call this samāveśa समावेश ) or absorption into the original position.

This word yajña as found in the act of meditation is without effort to deny but returning (parivṛtti परिवृत्ति); some call this pratiprasava,
to one's natual state. This is called out in Patañjali’s yogadarśana, in the Chāndogya Upaniṣad , and in the great work of Parā-trīśikā Vivaraṇa , authored by Abhinavagupti-ji.

What then is my point? This yajña & jaj - one is giving up freely, there is no 'denying' no effort. There is no strain. Strain in fact stops one from freely giving up (yaj) and therefore makes it contrived.

praṇām

vcindiana
14 September 2009, 04:15 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


Sacrifice = yajña

yajña is an act of worship or devotion , offering , oblation;
At times, yajña as a noun is a form of viṣṇu .
yajña is rooted in yaj यज्. This yaj is to offer, grant

Hello Yaj: Now I know how your name is derived.http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Does "na" mean the study of Yaj ?

What is the concept behind Sacrifice? It appears it is common in all religions. In Jewish way of thinking, it is temple theology where Jews offered animal sacrifice to rid their sins. A while ago I was in Central America and I found Mayan culture was full of sacrifice including Humans. Why the real act of sacrificying oneself ( time and energy ) to a cause became just a symbolic ?

Love...............VC

yajvan
14 September 2009, 07:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté VC

you ask of this ña - when sounded comes from the nasal+palatal ( the palate). How is this applied to yajña? Via this construction yaj+ ña.

yaj यज् is to offer, grant + ña is a singer (masculine form) , a praiser in this application. Hence we can see one form of yajña as a singer of praise.
We find this with the ritvik-s ऋत्विक् or ṛtvij; the priests that officiate at the sacrifice. The yajña-māna is the human performing the sacrifice (hava).

A beautiful word ṛtvij which means sacrificing at the proper time , sacrificing regularly. There are 'classically' 4 ritvik-s hotṛ , adhvaryu , brahman , and udgātṛ . Yet to go further requires much more explanation and typing!

But why did I say this word has beauty? for a few reasons:

ṛtvij which means sacrificing at the proper time - clearly informs of the proper method, timeliness, skill 'know how' of the ṛtvij, and ;
ṛtvij is rooted in yaj यज् to offer, grant. So we are once again retun back to the yaj+ña that they officiate over and many times are singing and praising with the mantra-s that are offered.
Also ṛtu is any settled point of time , fixed time , time appointed for any action. We use this to define the season of the year. Yet within ṛtvij it suggests the yaj+ña is done at the proper time and place (muhurta, place, proper direction , etc)Last, ( and very important ) it must be said that yajña is the external symbolism ; the agni-hoti is what is to occur internally within the yajña-māna, or person performing the sacrifice (hava).


praṇām

vcindiana
14 September 2009, 08:06 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté VC


praṇām

Thank you .

Do you think sacrifice and Yagna are same ? To me the Yagna you describe is more of ritualistic, it needs proper time, place , person etc.. If some one finds comfort in performing these rituals that is OK.

But the real sacrifice does not wait for proper time, place etc.. By the time it finds it could be too late. If I do not actively go out and console/help a sick person based on my excuse of inauspicious time and place, what good it is, he may be dead then.

Love...VC

yajvan
14 September 2009, 09:02 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Do you think sacrifice and Yagna are same ? To me the Yagna you describe is more of ritualistic, it needs proper time, place , person etc.. If some one finds comfort in performing these rituals that is OK.

But the real sacrifice does not wait for proper time, place etc.. By the time it finds it could be too late. If I do not actively go out and console/help a sick person based on my excuse of inauspicious time and place, what good it is, he may be dead then.

Love...VC

As written above

Sacrifice = yajña

VC, What doesn't need proper time, place? If given in the proper time it is never too late!

you mention


If I do not actively go out and console/help a sick person based on my excuse of inauspicious time and place, what good it is, he may be dead then
A hypothetical condition where this example mixes other points, conditions - yet it is not a ~sacrifice~. Do not confuse good stewardship for yajña.


The wise see this whole universe as the act of yajña. You may see giving up one's time to help another as sacrifice, a noble cause.

That is why this subject matter is so subtle, many miss the point.

It cannot be viewed from standard supply and demand thinking. That is, if I 'give' I am 'less' in some way - this is not the case.

Perhaps another time, another post , when the time is right, this will resonate clearly for you.

praṇām

yajvan
24 September 2009, 02:00 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

I read this today and thought to post it.
There are ego-s and ego-s. The social ego , that is to say, the ego of social status, authority, etc. is most easily patent and therefore the easiest to eradicate. The intellectual ego is subtler and it requires a great effort to shed it. But the spiritual ego is most difficult to spot for it does not allow itself to be seized; and also most difficult to remove. It is the most dangerous ego leading to a precipitous fall.


but one asks what is ego?
What is called individuality is largely a euphemism for ego. The formation and growth of the ego are inevitable in the development of consciousness. Only the wise man knows how to keep it in bounds.

If one has too much ego he generally receives enough puncturing blows from the surroundings and finds his level. Where that has not been possible, the Divine Himself send the necessary correctives.
This ego is a temporary formation necessary in the course of the Cosmic Labor. Once its utility for the centralization of the various elements of the Being is served, it is mere scaffolding which is to be cast away.


source: Collected works of TV Kapali Śāstri ( śiṣya of Śrī Aurobindo-ji) Volume 2 - The Book of Lights.


praṇām