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yajvan
15 September 2009, 02:44 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
Namasté

Many struggle with english , yet there are real reasons when it comes to word applications.
These are just some of the words ( are there words in Tamil, Hindi, etc. that come with the same dual meanings? )

altar - a table/platform
alter - to change

aural - listening
oral - spoken words

base - a bottom
bass - lowest range in music or voice

berth - a bed on a train
birth - being born

born - brought to life
borne - support or endured

capital - upper case letter
capitol - a place of government

foul - unpleasent
fowl - birds

idle - at rest
idol - an image, statue, etc.

peace - tranquility
piece - a part of something

there's ton's of them! vain, vane or vein? weather or whether; who's or whose? threw or through? accept or except?

yikes!

Star
16 September 2009, 09:29 AM
Namaste :)

I see what you mean... *lol* Being a native speaker of English myself I had never really thought about that. I wonder if also happens in other languages; at least in Portuguese you'll get those too (for example, "acento" meaning accent mark, and "assento" meaning seat...or "cozer" meaning to cook, and "coser" meaning to sew...wow). :D

PS: I think in "peace - a part of something" you actually meant "piece".

Eastern Mind
16 September 2009, 01:39 PM
Yajvan: Its better to look at it in a humourous fashion I think, rather than any kind of griping. (Not suggesting you are griping, not in the least). Here are a couple of my favorites gained from my years teaching 12 year olds.

Tougher homonyms ... stationary, and stationery

And ones with more than 2 ... there, they're their ... to two too ... rite right write and Wright, if you like the brothers rein rain reign etc

My favorite joke from this. A hungry (talking) lion is doing the local evening news for his pride. "Well, that's it for the sports and weather, now for the gnus.

Or this one about punctuation.

You, Star, and I are on a hiking trip yatra to some far off ancient temple where the darshan is so powerful we will be so humbled that there will be no talking for at least 10 minutes afterwards.

We come to a river, and its approaching meal time. I say, "Lets eat, Yajvan, before we cross the river."

But then I whisper to Star. "Let's eat Yajvan before we cross the river.

One comma can get you into a whole lotta trouble.

Then there's the classic for teaching meaning in context.

Arjun has a tear in his _______________.

Aum Namasivaya

whether its eye or shirt in the blank determines the pronunciation of the word tear.

Star
16 September 2009, 05:22 PM
Lol! Let's not eat Yajvan, that'd be a very nasty thing to do! *giggles*

Awesome examples. :D

yajvan
16 September 2009, 07:42 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
Namasté star


Namaste :)

I see what you mean... *lol* Being a native speaker of English myself I had never really thought about that. I wonder if also happens in other languages; at least in Portuguese you'll get those too (for example, "acento" meaning accent mark, and "assento" meaning seat...or "cozer" meaning to cook, and "coser" meaning to sew...wow). :D

PS: I think in "peace - a part of something" you actually meant "piece".


Thank you for the correction , I adjusted the post accordingly. EM gives some nice additions to the list ( and don't eat yajvan!).

Here's a few more:
dew, do or due?

discreet - tactful
discrete - distinct

hole - empty
whole - full!

pedal - used with the foot
peddle - to sell

they're, their or there?

affect or effect?

desert or desert or dessert ( to abandon, a dry barren area, the last course of a meal).

sunyata07
17 September 2009, 03:56 AM
Yeah, if you've had to learn English as a second language, it's a nightmare when it comes to distinguishing between homophones. And don't forget how words sometimes aren't spelt anything remotely like the way they are pronounced.

One big one I've always had a problem telling the difference apart is with:

- enquire
- inquire

Anyone know the difference? It still confuses me to this day. As does the past tense of hang... is it hanged or hung? :dunno:

Star
17 September 2009, 09:00 AM
http://www.dailywritingtips.com/inquire-vs-enquire/

Basically...it seems you can use either! :P Personally I tend to use "enquire", that might've something to do with being brought up (academically) in a British background.

Also, it'd seem that "Hanged is used only as the past tense form for killing someone through hanging". So "hung" would be the correct answer...unless, of course, you're talking about someone who was hanged. :) (Hmm, smiley face + hanging, not very appropriate is it...lol)

sunyata07
17 September 2009, 03:04 PM
Thanks for that little lesson, Star! I had a feeling enquire and inquire had pretty much the same meaning. Now that I think about it, the sentence: "The prisoner was hung" sounds a bit off... almost like they were hanging him out to dry or something. I've also realised just how macabre this topic has suddenly become!

Also, it would probably be relevant to mention that if you're an English student you'll have to learn to differentiate between Standard British English and American English, not that it's important, but it must really confuse people sometimes why they're spelt differently (centre vs. center) and why different words are used to mean different things on other sides of the Atlantic (elevator vs. lift; trunk vs. boot...).

Eastern Mind
17 September 2009, 03:15 PM
If you want to read some funny stuff on English go to Indiamike.com (a travel website about India ... extremely helpful loaded with info if you ever want to travel to India) and find the thread 'Quirks of Indian English" . A lot of misunderstanding goes on here and everywhere.

Aum

saidevo
18 September 2009, 05:36 AM
The quirks and quibbles and quiddities of the English language make the most qualified quills to quake, quail and quit lest they should sound like quacks! (Sorry if you had to look up the dictionary--I did it myself in working out that sentence).

Did you notice that in English words starting with the alphabet 'q', always--rather almost always--had 'u' as their second letter? The bond between the 'q' and the 'u' was so strong that in those days our friends used to bless newly-married couples jovially: "may you live together like the q and the u!"

Well, the 'q' and 'u' are indeed parted in a few words such as: Qaddafi, qanat, Qatar, and the qwerty.

The quaints of the English start right at its alphabets, rather than its words! Some illustrations from the Elizabethan alphabet (more at http://www.elizabethan-era.org.uk/):

The letter 'U' is pronounced 'you', right? The letter 'W' is written as combination of a double 'V' and yet it is pronounced 'double U'--not 'double V', why?

• This is because during the Chaucerian and Elizabethan times, the English language had only 24 alphabets as against the modern 26.

• The letters 'u' and 'v'were used as the same letter (interchangeable): 'u' was used only in the middle of a word, and the 'v' was used at the beginning!

• The old English letters 'i' and 'j' were used as the same letter (interchangeable): 'j' was used as the uppercase of 'i'.

• Another letter which resembled a 'y' was used to represent the 'th' sound. The word 'the' was therefore written in a similar way as 'ye' would be today.

Here is the first stanza of the poem titled 'An ABC' from Geoffrey Chaucer (c1400-1500):

Almighty and al merciable queene,
To whom that al this world fleeth for socour,
To have relees of sinne, of sorwe, and teene,
Glorious virgine, of alle floures flour,
To thee I flee, confounded in errour.
Help and releeve, thou mighti debonayre,
Have mercy on my perilous langour.
Venquisshed me hath my cruel adversaire.

**********

Perhaps everyone knows that the word 'jeep' was actually 'GP' in the beginning, meaning a 'general purpose four wheeler used by the US armed forces in the World War II.

By the bye, what exactly does the word 'jheesh' mean, Yajvan? Incidentally, as of now, search google with the word and you would find that this thread is listed as the first entry!

Did you use the word 'jheesh' to mean 'jeez' (expressing surprise, annoyance) or 'jeer' (a funny remark or comment) or the 'jeesh' mentioned in the Urban Dictionary at http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jeesh ?

Eastern Mind
18 September 2009, 07:06 AM
Aum. Oar is it om?

Then there are the idioms. Especially confusing if English is your second language. The old ones that go out of style may be the funniest.

"You corndog!" means "You are being silly."

There is a ton of them on the net. Search "English idioms"

Ohm.

amra
18 September 2009, 08:50 AM
The ambiguity of the English Language is the cause of the distortion of concepts and ideas, that were previously expressed in sacred and Holy Languages like Sanskrit.

As is seen from the previous posts, many words are pronounced the same but have different meanings. The words of the language correlate to the psyche of society. So what can be inferred from a language that has such a confusion of ideas. The hotchpotch of English language only serves the purpose of delusion. Learning about holy traditions from the English Language only serves to churn the butter of falsehood and cause confusion. Sacred languages like Sanskrit are perfect and are harmonious, they resonate with the human being and cause his upliftment whereas english is a cacophany of dissonance and causes nothing but confusion.

atanu
18 September 2009, 09:13 AM
[/URL]

Oh, my God.



[URL="http://www.innocentenglish.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/funny-church-sign.jpg"]http://www.innocentenglish.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/funny-church-sign.jpg (http://www.innocentenglish.com/funny-signs-pictures/daily-funny-sign-for-september-18-2009.html)

Churches all around doing that.

And more Chinees english:

Would you mind posting this letter for me? Yes Certainly.

saidevo
18 September 2009, 11:07 PM
Namaste everyone.



These are just some of the words ( are there words in Tamil, Hindi, etc. that come with the same dual meanings? )


Yes, there are several words in Tamil that confuse a learner, specially where they involve the similar sounding letters 'ra, Ra', 'la, La, zha', etc. Children in the primary school are taught the differences with an alphabetical poem that goes something like this (I have made up many lines):

That which scrapes iron is 'aram' (file),
that which people do is 'aRam' (dharma).

That which is driven into wood is 'ANi' (nail),
that which comes among months is 'Ani' (the month of this name).

That which animals seek is 'irai' (food, prey)*,
that which we all pray to is 'iRai' (God).

That where a pestle pounds is 'ural' (mortar),
That which makes you feel is 'uRal' (tactile sense).

That which itches you is 'Ural' (ringworm),
that which springs water is 'URal' (water spring).

To burn a thing is 'eri',
To throw a thing is 'eRi'.

Your dad waters the fields from an 'Eri' (lake),
You ride a horse by climbing it--'ERi'.

When uncertain, what you have is 'aiyam' (doubt),
when sucessful what you've got is 'jayam' (victory).

That which is heard is 'oli' (sounds),
that which is seen is 'oLi' (light),
that which you curse with is 'ozhi' (get lost).

What you do to sprint is 'ODu' (run),
what you do to a herd of cows is 'OTTu' (drive).

Pecks and goes the 'kozhi' (chicken),
the children play the 'goli' (marbles).

To get thin is 'nali',
to get dense is 'naLi'.

To be firm is 'tiram',
to be great is 'tiRam'.

What drinks honey is 'pallam' (bear),
what you fall in is 'paLLam' (pit).

Your acts have their 'palam' (consequences),
your mom gives you 'pazham' (fruit).

What you show as valour is 'maRam',
what the monkey climbs up is 'maram' (tree).

Note: *irai, iRai--ShrI kripAnanda vAriAr, the famous 'harikatha' exponent on God Murugan used to say: "You seek the 'irai (food) alright, but also seek the 'iRai' (God)."

Star
19 September 2009, 08:04 AM
Learning about holy traditions from the English Language only serves to churn the butter of falsehood and cause confusion.

I beg to differ. If such things weren't written out in English (or other Western languages) I would've never been able to learn about them...at least not in this life! ;P

amra
19 September 2009, 09:02 AM
You are right, they do serve as an introduction to certain ideas, but it must be remembered for serious study, english is not at all useful. You will see this yourself if you study Sanskrit seriously. And the problem becomes that after reading of some ideas in English people think they understand them, when all english serves is as a taster or introduction to the serious contemplation of true ideas. English has no depth of meaning it can not even scratch the surface of the great monuments of thought erected by the Rishis of yore, english is a prostitute language that goes round the world and enjoys short superficial pleasure with many ideas and always at a price. English can never develop a loving intimate relationship with a person because it is interested in gaining money for its prostitute activities instead of fostering deep and mutual understanding. English is purely secular and is only useful for conveying information not understanding of anything.

Eastern Mind
19 September 2009, 09:58 AM
Amra:

The mystic's language is colour and sound, (vibration, not words.) Besides, God understands all languages. It is God after all. My only language is English. I guess this makes me non-Hindu, and quite unreligious, eh? "He's fakin' it."

Many sages spoke nary a word. Still they sit in high Himalayan caves. But you are indeed welcome to your sense on the subject. I find the greatest thing wrong about English is it seems we're stuck with it.

But this thread is about the quirks, not the validity. Perhaps we can start a thread on the validity of Sanskrit.

Aum Namasivaya

amra
19 September 2009, 10:14 AM
some languages are closer to god hence Devanagari, languages such as english are far from God and lead into the pit of non-existence. We are not all mystics and not everyone lives up in a cave in the mountains if they did then the world would come to an end. Our duty is to understand the languages we use and understand the meaning of each of the words we imply and the images they evoke in others. This is called evolution. Such phrases as 'God understands all languages' again leads to the pit, they make people lazy and give them a excuse for causing all sorts of mischief. Sitting in samadhi and not doing anything ('the mystics language is sound and colour') is another excuse for not studying language properly and the effects it has on beings around us.

Eastern Mind
19 September 2009, 10:34 AM
I'm truly sorry if I offended you. As I said before, you are totally welcome to your views.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
20 September 2009, 09:56 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté saideveo,



To burn a thing is 'eri',
To throw a thing is 'eRi'.

Your dad waters the fields from an 'Eri' (lake),
You ride a horse by climbing it--'ERi'.

It is fun to note that in the USA, there is a lake named Erie.

lake Erie photo-s : http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS283&q=lake+erie&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=--q2SpXQHpGoswOx0e3RDA&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

praṇām

bhaktajan
26 September 2009, 01:33 PM
Here is one that may seem like a very sobering realisation of the diametrical nature of language:

Terrific [great/grand] vs Terrifying [horrific].

bhaktajan
26 September 2009, 01:36 PM
Here is a true story:

Try teaching a spanish person the word, 'Sheet' [as in sheet of paper].

bhaktajan
26 September 2009, 01:41 PM
Here is a [another true story] small challenge:

Try teaching a person, of any language, so that they know perfectly the subtle differences of the following words/terms/phrase:

"I can't. But, I would, f I could, but, I can't but, maybe I should"

or alternatively:

"I would have-could have-should have"
aka
"I wudda, cudda, shudda"

saidevo
16 November 2009, 08:25 PM
From a mail I received this morning:

ONLY THE BRITISH COULD HAVE INVENTED THIS LANGUAGE

We'll begin with a box, and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox becomes oxen, not oxes.
One fowl is a goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.

If the plural of man is always called men,
Then shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
If I speak of my foot and show you my feet,
And I give you a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?

Then one may be that, and three would be those,
Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
And the plural of cat is cats, not cose.
We speak of a brother and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him,
But imagine the feminine: she, shis and shim!

Let's face it - English is a crazy language.
There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger;
neither apple nor pine in pineapple.
English muffins weren't invented in England ..
We take English for granted, but if we explore its paradoxes,
we find that quicksand can work slowly,

boxing rings are square,

and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing,
grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?
Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend.
If you have a bunch of odds and ends
and get rid of all but one of them, what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught?
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?
Sometimes I think all the folks who grew up speaking English
should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what other language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?
We ship by truck but send cargo by ship.
We have noses that run and feet that smell.
We park in a driveway and drive in a parkway.
And how can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same,
while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language
in which your house can burn up as it burns
down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out,
and in which an alarm goes off by going on.

And, in closing, if Father is Pop, how come Mother's not Mop?

I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT IF PEOPLE FROM POLAND ARE CALLED POLES THEN

PEOPLE FROM HOLLAND SHOULD BE HOLES AND THE GERMANS GERMS!!!

DavidC
16 November 2009, 09:27 PM
From a mail I received this morning:

ONLY THE BRITISH COULD HAVE INVENTED THIS LANGUAGE[...]

There is no egg in eggplant nor ham in hamburger;[...]


It is true about the language, but the line I left quoted is American English. In the British isles, there is a vegetable called aubergine, but probably not 'eggplant,' and as for the demonic food it is called a 'beefburger.'

yajvan
13 December 2009, 05:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


nice - is defined as pleasing, agreeable; delightful e.g. a nice visit. How often do you use this word?

If you look at the origin of the word from latin it is 'nescius' meaning ignorant, incapable. This then was used some years back (circa 1300's ) to mean foolish, stupid, silly or simple as it was derived properly from nescius.

The 'ne' part of nescius (nice) is considered a negative prefix or not and and 'sci' is considered scīre which means to know; hence nescius is to 'not know'.

So, if one says 'that's nice to know' , you are saying 'that is foolish or ignorant to know' … 'Oh, that's nice! ' - you can keep with you for a special occasion only you will know about.


unloosen
loosen - is to unfasten or undo. Yet people will say unloosen the bolt or the nut. … This 'un' is to not, or to do the opposite as in 'undo' or undone. So, when you say un-loosen you are saying 'tighten'. One is thinking un-tighten, yet says the opposite.


nice post!

yajvan
14 December 2009, 10:49 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

fly


A fly can be an insect
One can fly in an air-plane - or- fly-over a city
A basedball player can hit a high fly-ball
The space over a theater stage is called the fly
A boy can leave his fly open ( his zipper )

yajvan
16 December 2009, 06:57 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Good-bye

An old valediction (an act of bidding farewell ) is:
God be with you -or- God be with ye , this became:

God-by-you (or ye) -> Good be with you (ye) -> Good-by or Good-bye

So a warm good bye is a very spiritual offer.

yajvan
17 December 2009, 10:48 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Foul or Fowl ?

Fowl is from fugol, meaning a bird. The Latin word is fuga or fugo : to put to flight, chase away, drive into exile, pursue.

An assocated word that applies is fuga, and is used in 'fugue' , a period of time when a person experiences a loss of memory, as in one's memory has taken 'flight', chased away or into exile.

Foul is considered something offensive in smell, looks e.g. foul smell of stagnant water or contaminated air. Foul is also considered unfavorable, wicked or vile as in one's deeds , like a crime or slander e.g. Something has gone foul with this business deal

Yet a baseball player can hit a 'foul' ball - that is, out of bounds of the playing field. Since it is hit in the air ( like a bird) , should it not be a fowl ball? perhaps a fugo-ball? The ball does not smell bad does it? It has no foul smell, it is only in flight to a place it is not suppose to be.

Eastern Mind
17 December 2009, 11:08 AM
Namaste:

So a foul fowl is from road kill, three days later.
Fouls are also committed in many sports. You could also commit the fowl to the oven. Why is the birdy in badminton male? (shuttlecock) If it was called a fowl, it would be confused with the various fouls like double hits, short serves, and the like.
But then that Randy Johnson pitch (For those of you unfamiliar with this incident, a weird circumstance happened in a baseball game a few years back, where a poor pigeon flew across the ball's path about half way between the pitching mound and the batter, hence shattering the poor bird to bits.) really was a fowl ball.

Enjoy, Yajvan, enjoy. So dost thou own a van? it would be a Yajvan van.

Aum

yajvan
18 December 2009, 09:59 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Gorilla
We know this as an ape. In English, this word can be applied as slang-word to mean a brutish man, a thug, a person that is not delicate e.g. the movers were gorilla's … they threw my furniture around as if it was a used box.

Yet this word has another orign from the Greeks ( new Latin) meaning a tribe of hairy women i.e. Goríllā-s.

yajvan
19 December 2009, 07:57 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Humor
We know this as what is amusing or comical. Yet the origin of the word is Latin. It is from hūmor meaning moisture or fluid. Sometimes used as a medical term as the humors of the body i.e. bodily fluids. In various cities, there is 'Good Humor' ice cream wagons that sell ice-cream bars. You can consider the 'humor' of ice-cream as frozen moisture.

How do you connect the dots between being amusing and moisture or body fluids? The old Greek philosophers looked at is this way ( which is very close to an Ayurvedic POV as I see it) . They suggested 4 fluids ( humors) where within a human's body and one's temperment was determined by it. In Ayurveda this would becosidered one's constitution or prakṛti, influenced by doṣa-s (vatta, pitta, kapha).

The 4 as they seen it:

blood - an abundnace of this and you were considered optimistic or sanguine. Note sanguine is cheerfully optimistic, hopeful, or confident. this is the stongest connection back to 'humor' of amusing. Note to that sanguine is from the latin word 'sanguineus' meaning blood or bloody. This is considered a blanced person in Ayurveda.

phlegm - toi much of this and you were considered 'phlegmatic', or slow and unexciteable, like kapha.
bile - to much bile and one is choleric ( the Latin word for bile is chole). Choleric means extremely irritable or easily angered. short tempered. This would be an excess of pitta in Ayurveda.
black bile - which did not exist, but invented; too much of this and one was considered 'melancholy' or a gloomy state of mind,
some say for an extended period is then called depression. The Latin/Greek word melancholía is defined as a condition of having black bile. In Ayurveda this would be an excess of kapha or vatta; excess kapha makes one lethargic, to the point of tamasic. Excess vatta brings anxiety and gloom to the mind also.

yajvan
20 December 2009, 05:06 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


punch

Care for some punch? One is offering a drink. Care to avoid a punch, one does not want to get hit with a fist. Or to punch a clock at work, is to check in or start work.

Punch comes from a French word 'ponchonner' - to prod, prick or stamp. It used to denote driving cattle by poking and prodding them in a direction.

With the idea of stamping, people would have their travel tickets ( bus, plane, train) punched for passage, or one would punch-in or punch-out from from work.

A punch also became to be a pointed tool from the word 'ponchon'. This word is really close to the word puncheon - another name for a cask of liquor. To enter the cask, it would have to be punched open, perhaps that is the origin of the name.

So from this word it is easy to see how punctual would be a natural bi-product of punch i.e. having a sharp point, or 'exactness' of being prompt. Or the word pungent - having a 'sharp' taste.

yajvan
21 December 2009, 12:56 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

mace

a mace can be called gada (some spell gadā) in saṃskṛt i.e. a mace , club , bludgeon

In English we have:

mace as a heavy metal weapon with a spiked head.
Yet mace is also a spice made from dry outer husk of nutmeg.
Or mace is also a chemical spray used for personal protection. I would think they termed the word mace to give it the aura of the power i.e. to club or bludgen, of this spay ( made from cayenne pepper as I understand it).
Another depiction of mace is a ceremonial staff carried before or by certain officials as a symbol of office This staff looks like a stick with a ball at the end of it, yet it is not used for bludgeoning as far as I can tell.Mace comes from a few sources. French: masse a large mallet . Latin has matteola, a kind of mallet. We mentioned gadā in saṃskṛt , yet another saṃskṛt word also applies. Matya is a club with iron points at its end. This should not be confused with matyā which is devotion , prayer , worship , hymn , or sacred utterance.

So , when you ask for mace, you can get a spice, a club, get clubbed or sprayed, or receive a ceremonial staff.

Eastern Mind
21 December 2009, 01:04 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


punch



I always thought punch came from panch meaning 5, a mixture of 5 liquids, like panchamirtham.

English is, after all, just an extremely bastardized form of Sanskrit, as are all other languages. (tongue in cheek) or is that (tong in cheek) as per kavadi) ?

I like your light (as in not heavy, not glowing forth like I saw the light.) contributions.

Aum

yajvan
22 December 2009, 07:15 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté



Oblate, oblation

In saṃskṛt one word is yaj - to offer, grant, bestow, yield, and from here we get yajña or oblation.

Oblate is flattened on the ends or ob+latus = toward + latus , from its opposite, prolatus 'lengthened' , so it means shortened.

Oblate as a noun is a person devoted to religious work or effort. This is from the Latin word oblatus ' to offer or bring before' and is a nice equal to the saṃskṛt one word yaj - to offer, grant, bestow, yield, and from here we get yajña or oblation We then can see how this would be the roots for obligation ' a pledge' an offering of one's word or action.

And we are obliged ( bound by oath) to fulfill one's word, from the Latin word obligare, ob 'to' + ligare 'bind' Yet this is slightly different then the use of oblige in modern time. Today oblige is to make someone
indebted ( to you) by offering an act of kindness.

So with oblate you can flatten something on its ends ( bread or biskets) , or be an oblate and offer oblations (yajña). You can be bound by an obligation ( a pledge) or ask one you did a favor for, to obige and return the favor back at some future date.

yajvan
03 January 2010, 08:19 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


back

This can be one's physical back of the body which houses the spine.
Yet 'go back' suggests to turn-around and head another way
You can also 'move that back...' meaning return it to the original position
You can use this word as an adjective - ' you are a back-seat driver'.Go back! my back hurts, bring that back... is that in the back room?
Don't back down... hey back off. I'll take no back-talk.


jheesh

Eastern Mind
03 January 2010, 09:19 PM
Yajvan: I admire how you type Sanskrit, universal transliteration.and then translations. Now this is just a start... Back, for example.. back off, I'll back that pony. Now suppose we just used the sound ... bak ... but then looked around the 250 languages or so in the world... so I'm guessing besides the 10 or 15 English meanings there would be another 50 or so different meanings from different languages.. same sound, new language, different meaning.. so if I were an alien... then it would be incredibly confusing... what he heck are these humans up to... ???

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
03 January 2010, 10:53 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Yajvan: I admire how you type Sanskrit, universal transliteration.and then translations. Now this is just a start... Back, for example.. back off, I'll back that pony. Now suppose we just used the sound ... bak ... but then looked around the 250 languages or so in the world... so I'm guessing besides the 10 or 15 English meanings there would be another 50 or so different meanings from different languages.. same sound, new language, different meaning.. so if I were an alien... then it would be incredibly confusing... what he heck are these humans up to... ??? Aum Namasivaya

Yes, all different types. With my etymology study I end up in all different places. Yet for me saṃskṛt ( IMHO ) is the most robust. The works and insights of pāṇini-ji is outstanding. Pāṇini-ji lived in the 7th century BC, others say 4th century BC.


I am still reading/researching the best I can. His work is called the Aṣṭādhyāyī ( or the 8 chapters) - is the central part of pāṇini's offering. Aṣṭā is 8 + dhya - thinking + ayi - introduction of inquiry;
Yet there is also another view: aṣṭa अष्ट is also 'marked, branded on the ear' . So if we use this word this way, it is the introduction/inquiry of thinking that is 'branded on the ear'.
What is that, which gets branded? Sound (śabda sound, a word), which is fundamental to words and nirikta (etymology).

The Aṣṭādhyāyī outlines the rules of saṃskṛt ( both spoken and written). What is of great interest are the root sounds, root words. I have much to learn and appreciate.

praṇām

yajvan
04 January 2010, 07:05 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


bar


One can go to a bar ( alcohol), or;
bar the door ( with a beam, or rod of steel or wood)
You can be part of a bar - a group/body or lawyers as a legal affiliation; I looked into this and this seemingly comes from the wooden railing marking-off the area around the judge's seat, where offenders stood for their arraignment. A barrister i.e. a student of law who has been called to the bar would argue the case.
You can have 4 bars of pressure or 5 mili-bars of pressure - from the Greek word baros meaning weight.

Eastern Mind
04 January 2010, 07:43 PM
Namaste Yajvan:

Bar is one of the words with the most meanings of all. A good dictionary might list 50 meanings. To illustrate how personal language becomes, and to just show the large variety, one of my language classes in Grade 6 used to do this: "I'm going to say a word, and I want you to write down the first meaning that comes to your mind." The most we got in that exercise was 8 different ones in a class of 27 kids or so. Usually it was just 3 or 4.

The connecting went along these lines.

Kids with drinking parents thought of the canteen or hotel.
Obese kids thought of a chocolate bar.
Clean kids thought of a bar of soap.
One kid whose Dad was in jail thought of the bars on a window.
A kid who had been canoeing on the weekend thought of the sand bar that he and his Dad had got stuck on.

And so it went.

We used to discuss names and their connotations in our efforts to understand how the mind works. If every Shawn (Sean, Shaun, Shon, Shan .. short for Shanmuga, my son, Shawne, Shaune, Seane) you've ever met was not nice, a bully etc., pity the poor chap named Shawn that comes along next. So the subconscious sorter does its job.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
04 January 2010, 08:48 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté EM,


Namaste Yajvan:

And so it went.
We used to discuss names and their connotations in our efforts to understand how the mind works. If every Shawn (Sean, Shaun, Shon, Shan .. short for Shanmuga, my son, Shawne, Shaune, Seane) you've ever met was not nice, a bully etc., pity the poor chap named Shawn that comes along next. So the subconscious sorter does its job. Aum Namasivaya


Bhartṛhari ( a 6th or 7th century grammarian) said the following:
' air under the influence of the mind gets itself materialized into
audiable sound, it is life-breath (prana-vayu) that gives rise to all sounds' .


And yes, the notion of vāsanā-s , those lasting impressions ( even in children).


praṇām

yajvan
05 January 2010, 09:57 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Some more interesting words.


ingenious or ingenuous

Ingenious is clever, creative, inventive; from the Latin word ingeniī meaning natural quality, intelligence.
We have this similar sounding word, ingenuous, yet it means free from reserve, restraint, candid, sincere. It too is from Latin, ingenuus meaning native, free-born, honorable, frank.

One can be dis-ingenuous i.e. not sincere, not candid. Yet there is no word dis-ingenious i.e. not intelligent or clever Go figure eh?

Here's one I hear often,
regardless and irregardless

regardless is regard + less. Meaning without regard i.e. without concern as to advice, warning, heedless. Yet people say irregardless ( as in 'irregardless of the facts ...') meaning without regard.

I seems ir+regard+less should mean ir = without + regard+less = without heeding or concern. So, irregardless should = with concern with warning with taking need. Yet it is not , again, go figure.

Eastern Mind
05 January 2010, 10:36 AM
Yajvan: It never ceases to amaze. Flammable and inflammable mean the same thing. The more you dig, the deeper you go, my friend.

Do you perchance know the Salish or Kwakuitl word for 'sea otter'?

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
05 January 2010, 01:59 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté EM,


The more you dig, the deeper you go, my friend.
Do you perchance know the Salish or Kwakuitl word for 'sea otter'?
Aum Namasivaya

Digging so far has been fun. Regarding sea otters - no I do not know the names for this mammal... do you have one you wish to share?


praṇām

Eastern Mind
05 January 2010, 02:39 PM
PS: sq̕eʔəƛ̕ I found it in a dictionary. Do you perhaps know how to say it. It is just the word for otter.

yajvan
05 January 2010, 05:50 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

raise and rise, but rear?

Both raise and rise suggest up. Raise takes an object up, moves or lifts up ; like, I raise my hand, or I want a raise in salary.
What else raises? You can also raise a bridge - meaning to open it up to ships, or to even build it, it's called raising the bridge. I will raise you in playing poker.

But what of this rise? Raise is the causative of rise . Causative = functioning as an agent; producing. Here is an example - the causative form of fall is fell. The fall occured because the person fell - hence the cause.
Like that, the cause of rise occurs because of raise; said another way, to raise something is to cause it to rise. Example - the sun rises in the East; I rise before 5 AM; ther bread dough is rising now.

Note we always say heat rises, not heat raises, yet the temperature is going up. BUt people raise thier voices ? Meaning speaking up but not always in pitch ( to raise up).

As I mentioned in the USA, a person may get a raise in salary, yet in England people may get a rise in salary.

So now that we got a good feel for raise and rise , meaning in general up of some kind - in America children are raised, as to suggest to nurture and grow up. Yet it is also said children are reared! What?

The opposite of up is down, the opposite of front is rear... Now how can children be reared? Rear is the back, behind, it also is the buttocks ( rump).

It use to be said ' you raise horses, you rear children'. Maybe this notion comes from the discipline offered of gentle spank on the 'rear' as children were considered ' reared' for growing? Yet when this is used as a verb with an object ( i.e. children) it is considered 'to take care of and support to maturity' . So in this case, horses too can be reared no doubt.

Rear ( as in back, hind, behind) is from arrears - that state of being behind as in the rent is paid in arrears ( after the month is over). This arrears comes from a Latin phrase ad retrō. Ad retrō is ad (toward) + retrō (backward or retrogress).
Today many designs that are new are considered retrō - So in some designs to go forward to raise up a design it is retrō and goes backwards to be in vogue.

Go figure?

yajvan
06 January 2010, 11:37 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

lie and lay

If I lie, I am telling an untruth. It is considered a noun ( person, place or thing) I can lie , I can be lying or I could have lied in the past.

Yet too I can lie down - to be positioned horizontally. I can lie low - not suggesting lying down, but being out of sight or away from communication.

I can also lay down the law - to press or weigh in on how things are to be done. I can be accused of doing little work, and be told 'I am lying-down on the job' ( accomplishing little or goofing off).
Lie can also suggests a direction to head - 'your success lies to the North'. Yet you can lie into the wind - that is remain stationary ( in nautical terms).

So how do you answer these questions ?
'Are you lying ? ' Is one asking you if you are lying down , or, are you telling an untruth? 'Lie over here ' - does that mean come over here and tell an untruth or come over here to position your body vertically on the ground?

There is an American saying ' to lie through one's teeth' - this is considered a gross lie and full misrepresentation of the truth or facts. I do not get how one's teeth has anything to do with lying, yet here are a few ideas I found:
"The expression refers to someone who smiles and tells you what you want to hear but is planning on doing something else entirely."
Hence the smile is that of (usually) showing one's teeth and hence lying through them.
Another is regaring 'ventriloquists', they speak without opening their mouths. They are talking, if you will, through their teeth. you do not see them speaking. This infers a hidden source and a the potential foruntruths to be mouthed.

What is interesting to me is this word lie is a thing , a noun, at the same time being a verb , an action.

yajvan
21 January 2010, 11:09 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


In the USA a person gets a haircut. Does this not infer 1 hair is cut?
So begins the notion of singular and plural.

We know singular to be 1 of something e.g. I have a bicycle .
If this was plural , I would say, I have a few bicycles. I just add the 's' to the end of bicycle(s). Bicycle is the noun.

Enter-in singular nouns that have an 's' at the end of them. Example - Measles , mumps, mathematics - they describe one thing, not multiples ( or plural).

Proper English suggests you say the following:
Measles is annoying - because it is one thing yet looks and sound like two, you use 'is' vs. 'are' ; Mumps is a disease found in children
Mathematics is a required subject in school.

Yet what of scissors? It is ONE thing yes? and it ends in 's' .
Yet proper English would be the following:
These scissors are not sharp - (as if there is more then one!)
How about pants ? or binoculars? or how about eyeglasses? These are all one thing yet are described as if they are plurals.

Where are your pants ( vs. where is your pants); Is the binoculars in the closet -or- are the binoculars in the closet?

is are? is are? Jheesh!